Oh Moonlady C, your son sounds gorgeous. A little bit like mine in fact. I bet they'd get on. It's probably difficult though. All those emotional, communicative planets in Leo, and his sun in sweet, gentle Cancer. I bet he'll be just fine though. I have a friend who suffers from manic depression and she and my son are so sweet together. I think observing her and her moods has made him, to a certain extent, a little bit more sensitive, aware and adaptable than he might otherwise have been.

Love from Tanya

Hi Tanya ~ It's good to hear from you again. Thank you for the compliment on my son's behalf. He really is a sweetie. Everyone who meets him wants to take him home. Even people in the grocery store comment on how good he is. What they don't see, however, is that he's so well behaved because he's so afraid of getting into trouble. He's always been extremely sensitive of even the slightest critism, but so am I, so what can I say? I try very hard to contain my emotions around him, which is very difficult at times. When I'm depressed I try to hold in the tears until after he's gone to bed, when I'm manic there's no controlling it, but I don't do anything that would scare him then, at least I hope not. How is your friend coming along, have you seen her recently? Please keep in touch!
I'm still hoping that someone can give me some insight as to how I should respond to Dr. Naiman's email. I feel like I keep opening doors, only to be lost once I'm inside.
I'd also like to comment on the welfare issue as I think some of you might have misunderstood, since I probably didn't make myself clear in the first place. The reason I cannot apply for welfare (which will get me the medical treatment I need)isn't a matter of pride, actually I went to welfare when my son's father left me (at 5 months pregnant and unemployed) What it is, is a matter of fear. Illogical and unreasonable fear, yes, but very real and uncontrollable fear just the same. I'm not even sure what it is that I'm most afraid of. I wasn't always this afraid of everything... I hate it, it's ruining my life.

Thanks so much to all of you... Moonladyc

Hi MoonladyC. Thankyou for you interest regarding my friend. Well, she recently had a bone scan and they found something on her upper back. They don't know what it is and she's tired and frightened. It really does seem to be one thing after another.

I've noticed that everyone is trying to give you advice (practically all of it is very sound, kind and hopefully useful). It's difficult isn't it? I know that when people first meet my friend, or are told about her, that they immediately say "well, why isn't she doing this. or that, or whatever." It's very hard for someone with a fresh as a daisy perspective to understand how tiring it is when you are actually living it. I'm really glad that you enjoy your communication with all the Knowflakes and I hope it helps. (I myself still know practically nothing about astrology i'm afraid. It's very addictive though so... i'm learning.

Anyway, bye for now,
Love, Tanya

Hi Tanya ~ Tiring... that's just the tip of the iceburg, but thank you so much for acknowledging that. I am totally exhausted most of the time. Unless I'm manic, then I have the strengh of ten men and will work myself until I feel as if I'll die of physical exhausion, but I keep on going anyhow. Of course I'm using all that energy to do really dumb things though, so what good is it? I'm really sorry to hear that your friend is having physical problems on top of her emotional ones, I hope she's in good medical hands and all will be well. Write again, I enjoy the company. Moonladyc

Hi MC (can I call you that, it's quicker?)
Well, about 10 minutes ago my friend' mother called to say that the results of the bone scan showed that she has a broken bone in her neck. Now this woman has been in pain for weeks because of this and, because she has a reputation for being a trouble maker, the main hosopital near here refused to take her seriously. Luckily her parents were able to pay for a private scan and, well, she is now back at the main hospital for surgery. The frightening thing is that for the last few weeks she has had no feeling in her arms and she has always had a fear of paralysis. Hopefully the bone problem is just affecting hr nerve endings. The surgery will, if all goes well, stop this.

Anyway, apart from the endometriosis, all of her physical problems have been caused by her chronic drug-taking, drinking etc. It's so sad because her mental outlook has been so hopeful and positive in the last couple of years. This girl, I wish you could have met her, was one of the most beautiful, funniest, cleverest and talented of people. A real type original. There are so many funny stories involving Elizabeth. She was a real leader in adventure. So naughty.

Anyway. What do YOU do when you're manic? E used to run around the house, bottle of Vodka in one hand, feather duster in the other (cos she's an old fashioned girl!) screaming "crumbs, crumbs, why does it always have to be crumbs". Her home was always either completely squalid or neurotically clean. Nothing in between. Bit like her really, alas!

Speak to you soon
Love, Tanya

Tanya, please feel free to call me anything you like, your friend sounds an awful lot like me, minus the bottle of vodka... LOL! But as far as my house is concerned, mine is exactly as you explained hers. I vaccuum quite a bit when I'm manic and then I don't vaccuum at all when I'm depressed, Right now my floor is filthy, the dishes are piled up in the sink and all my plants are dead from lack of water. When I'm manic I have 1001 projects going on at the same time, I can't sit still from morning till night and I spend an awful lot of money that I don't even have on things I certainly don't need. I get "brilliant" ideas that I realize were really dumb once I "come down". I'm depressed much more than I'm manic and at times wish it were the opposite. I completely understand what Elizabeth is going through with the doctors not believing her. As a child I had a broken arm and my mother sat there and told me the story of the boy who called wolf. It's very frustrating when people don't believe you! Especially when you are in pain! Thanks for writing, MC (you're right, that is easier)

Hi Moonlady C. or MC,

Sorry that your fear prevents you from taking the steps that you need to help yourself, maybe the next time you're feeling (or start to feel) manic you'll have the energy you need to do it, only problem is you probablly won't think it's a problem then. Do you have a supportive friend or family member who could walk you through the process? I hope I didn't come off with the fresh as daisy's look at life Tayna mentioned. I hope not, she might not have read back far enough to know about my Bipolar friend or 10 years experience in the mental health field. I just know that if my friend Laurie's having trouble she knows she can count on me to walk her through it. I also have to be somewhat confrontive with her at times because she often does not want to take her meds or will skip doses, ect. She sounds a lot like you & Tanya's friend, and has had quite an interesting life!? She's also a number 16/7, which you know about Tanya since I gave you Linda's descriptions on another thread. Interesting how we all have son's around the same age - right now mine is trying to give his cat a bath! This should be interesting !?

I have an idea about your trying to get clairification about what that Astrologer lady had to say to you....Why don't you post the whole response on a new post here for Dave to respond to? I didn't really understand what she ment either from what you shared so far.

Hope the change in weather picks up your mood. I don't know what it was like in Harrisburgh today, but it was beautiful here in Pittsburgh - people were out biking & jogging, kids out playing. It was nice to see!

Take care,
Kelly

MoonLAdyC, I emailed Ingrid two days ago and she told me that she generally does readings by telephone... she gave me the email addresses of two of her students in the UK, one of which said she would be happy to help me via email.. although, I have only just sent back my response answering some (very personal) questions about myself! I will let you know if I get a response.. she said it could take up to two weeks for her to get back to me. I could email you the addresses if you like?! let me know *smiles*
with love
cObWeBsOuL
xoxoxoxoxox

Hi Kelly ~ Even when I'm manic the fear is still there, even more so I think because I'm so afraid of making a fool out of myself. I start talking a mile a minute and say things that are really dumb, I also get irritated by people rather easily then and say things that I later regret. I "fly off the handle" at the slightest thing when I'm manic. This isn't like "me" at all. As far as family & friends are concerned... I get very little support from either. As a matter of fact it's been 3 years since I've seen most of my family. My parents live in Maryland and as far as my mother is concerned all of this is caused by the evil spirits that are brought by believing in astrology. I doubt if my mother even told my father, she doesn't tell him anything that might upset him. What a marriage! It really wouldn't do much good to tell him anyway, from past experience I know that he wouldn't believe it. I only have one close friend and she is swamped with problems of her own, I don't really see her very often and when I do I rarely get a word in edgewise. She's known that I've been looking for help and has yet to offer any (even after I asked), so...
It's been so long since I've been outside in the daytime, but I hear that it's supposed to be in the 60's this weekend, if the neighbor's aren't home maybe I can poke my head outside for a minute.
My son always wants to give his guinia pig a bath, I keep telling him to wait until it's warmer, what is it with kids and wet animals? It was good to hear from you again!Please write again, MoonladyC

Cobwebsoul ~ So you didn't have any trouble understanding Dr. Naiman's response to you? Could you maybe translate mine? MoonladyC

Hi Kelly, you're right. I hadn't read your letter, Sorry. I hope your cat is still with us!!!

Yes, it's good isn't it, our sons being the same age? It's half-term here in England. My son's just strong-armed me into giving him some money for technical stuff and, extremely annoying this, some of those outrageously expensive Pokemon cards. Do you know about them? Awful things. My son just loves the trading aspect of these things. Oh well. Roll on the next fad!

Anyway, i'm working at the moment, for a language school and i,m very lucky because I can do most of the work at home. At the moment it's just ground work, preparation, host-families etc. The students themselves don,t actually come here until May.

I've just had a thought MC. If you have a computer at home, perhaps you could take in typing, or something? Quite a few people here make a living from doing that. Very good for women who have just had kids and maybe don't want to leave them. But then again, there is a great call for typists because this is a University town. Maybe it's not the same where you are MC.Just a thought...

Hope you are all well and enjoying the fabulous sunshine

Love from Tanya

Tanya ~ Yes, Pokemon has invaded our household as well. Jake got a check from my mother for Valentine's Day and guess what he spent the money on... Yep, Pokemon cards. It's such a small world.
I too have thought about working from home using the computer, when I was manic. I actually tried it last year and it was a disaster. I tried selling things through ebay and then after I had a few orders I couldn't leave the house to mail the packages. I decided that it would be best to wait until I was stable before I tried something like that again. It's bad enough to not be able to follow through with projects of my own, but it's even worse when it involves other people. I still haven't reconciled with the people from ebay, I can't even look to see what bad things the people probably wrote about me. Thanks for the suggestion though, I know that you're trying to help, and I know how frustrating it is for you that I have an excuse for every suggestion that I get. MC

Please, please don't worry MC. I can't even begin to imagine what it's like. One minute feeling as if you could take on the world, the next, feeling as if you are drowning. I suppose that, to a certain extent you feel as if you can't trust yourself. Of course, your illness means that you inevitably end up letting people down. We DO understand though. I don't think for one minute anyone thinks you're making excuses.
I remember that we used to get very frustrated with E. When she was in her manic state she would have an idea, and proceed to bang on and on about it. She would become very offended if we did'nt listen. Of course, she never actually did anything with these ideas but... this is obviously another symptom...

Anyway, MC, your posts are always lucid and sensible. You don't seem to be particularly angry or bitter. How have you managed to retain this degree of perspective?

Tanya

Tanya ~ I do feel bitterness at times, when I think how my family, friends and past boyfriends have let me down. I try not to think about it because I hate the feeling that bitterness gives me. A disgusted sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach. If I had an illness that they could understand, such as cancer, I'd be getting treated totally differently. Where are the get well soon cards and flowers that a sick person usually gets? Not here. Because in their eyes I'm not sick, but lazy, manipulative and spoiled. But enough of that... my stomach is starting to clench up all ready.
Speaking of ideas, I actually was manic long enough once to design a set of 12 astrological greeting cards and have them copyrighted. Now they're just gathering dust in a box somewhere, along with all my other dreams. Thanks for caring, it means alot. MC

Hi MC & Tanya! ,

Yes, my son was into pokemon as well!!! Now he has the whole set & wants to sell it to make money! He actually has sold some of his doubles. He was obsessed until he got the whole set, then he heard that there were some new cards coming out & refused to stay hooked into it - I'm glad! Now he's back to football cards, quite the collector my son!

The cat survived, but Tommy didn't fare so well, he got scratched up & the cat kept getting out of the tub, so I ended up doing it. Now that he's had a demonstration, he feels confident that he can do it the next time!

MC, I saw your post about the e-mails, I hope you have some luck with that. I hope things get better for you soon!

------------------
Love and Light,
Kelly

Thanks Kelly, MC

Hi MC,

I'm glad Dave's going to look at those e-mails for you & help you out with that. That's great!! Maybe something will come out of it that is helpful & useful to you. Let me know what happens once you get the information.

I can't believe how beautiful it is outside today. I'm not going to let this day go by without getting out! I think I'll ride my bike down to the lake by my house & go walking - I'll feel too guilty if I don't since I didn't do anything active yesterday. You should try & get some fresh air yourself, even if it's just to stand in your yard for a little while & listen to the birds.

Take care ~ Love,
Kelly

MoOnladyC
I'm sorry...I really don't know what she meant in your reply.. spices? The spice of 'life'?! I don't know *laughs* I just emailed her and told her that I had visited her site and found it fascinating and that I studied psychology and had an interest in astrology. I told her briefly that I had suffered from depression and that was that. Her reply was simply that she worked by telephone mainly and that she could refer me to some students of hers... nothing cryptic at all... most strange.. don't you think?! Unless, of course it was a different person writing to you
She gave me the email addresses and asked me to get back to her to let her know how things are going! Do you want the email addresses?
sorry I ciuldn't be of any help
love
cObWeBsOuL
xoxoxoxoxox

Cobwebsoul ~ I guess you better give me those email addresses, cause it looks like nobody's responding to the Ingrid Naiman emails. I wonder why she didn't refer me to them? Maybe you should get my email address from Greg, I don't think that you should post them. Thanks.
Kelly ~ You'll be glad to know that I did venture outside yesterday. The weather was beautiful. I drove over to my ex-boyfriend's work place and put all his stuff that was at my house in his car. He called later on in the day and then came over last night... so it looks like we're back together, but I really don't know for how long. Even though everything went fine last night, I'm not terribly optimistic about any long term plans. Time will tell I guess. MoonladyC

Hi,
I didn't read all the posts because there is so much in here, I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions for me...
I am dysthymic, which is like bipolar, but it's a little milder, more on an even keel...depressed all the time...with a few manic swings upward here and there. I also have Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Seasonal Affective Disorder, and PMS. THe SAD aggravates the PMS, and as I live in a snowy region, this is not so good.
I have control over these things as much as I can. My body is EXTREMELY sensitive to medication, and rejects them all. I believe there is a reason for this.If the body doesn't want it...it's for a reason. Besides, I have a problem taking anything that could potentially damage all my vital organs from A-Z.
The main problem is not the moods. Those I understand.
I just can't seem to get the simplest little things together...like keeping the house clean, getting up for class...wanting to go to work...mainly anything that isn't, or hasn't been in my heart of hearts. I am purrfectly motivated to do things I love...
Mainly, what I am asking here, and sorry for the ramble...is this: Does anyone have, or know of an effective way to self-discipline when dealing with these disorders?
Spirituality has helped me cope with the moods and the mental state sooooo much. This self-discipline things is my last step...and I need some help. The docs have been unhelpful thus far...
Blessings to you all...there is always love to see us through.
Love and Light,
Kelly Ann

Kelly Ann ~ I wish I could help you, but I'm pretty much in the same boat, with the exception that I have had some favorable experience with some (not all) medications and would gladly take them, if I had some. Yes, I too have learned to acccept most of the moods, with the exception of suicidal depression and out of control mania. What I can't accept is the loneliness caused by my inability to have successful relationships and the fear that I feel everytime I go anywhere or try to talk to anyone. I have the same problems with the house, getting up with my son in the morning is rough, and I really don't have much of anything that I can say I really enjoy doing anymore, at least not without fear. Feel free to write anytime, I'm sure we have a lot in common, if you want, ask Greg for my email address.
MoonladyC

Tanya, Please tell me how Amanda is doing? I think about her often. How is your son taking it? It must be so hard for him to understand.
Kelly Ann, I was hoping to hear from you, I hope you're feeling better.
MC

Hi MC, just read your post on the other thread. Your concern for Amanda is so touching. Thankyou. Things are still the same. Amanda is, however extremely compos mentis, and positive with it. I don't know how she does it. Despite her past behaviour (extraordinary selfishness, weakness in the face of various temptations etc, ect,) she still is able to dredge up (from God knows where) amazing strengths that are a great help to her. It's so strange, and she is so contrary. I would love people to have a look at her chart ( on the 'For my ill friend') thread. What does everyone think?

Tell me how things are for you MC.
Lots of love, Tanya

Hi MC,

How are things going with your boyfriend? Any better than before? I'm also back on with a guy I was dating/seeing for about 2 months. I'm trying to be patient & let him set the pace, as I feel I was too pushy & had too many expectations so soon in the relationship the first time around. I forget what it's like to start out in a new relationship since I was married for 10 years. This guy has a job where he travels all the time & a son hes see's as much as he can when he's home, so this doesn't leave much room to fit a woman with a kid into his schedule. So...we'll see what happens?! In a way I think this is the type of relationship I need because I need to focus on myself & be independent, ect, and if I had a guy in my life who was available all the time I might be tempted to throw myself into the relationship & lose myself! God has not been putting men in my life who are that available, and I think this is for a reason!? Well....sorry I blabbered on so long! Let me know how you're getting along.

------------------
Love and Light,
Kelly

Hi Tanya & Kelly, I'm sorry I've taken so long to reply, but my head is a foggy mess and AOL keeps cutting off before I can finish, so I keep starting over, but frustration is interferring with what I wanted to say. So, I think I'm going to post a little at a time so I don't have to keep starting over from the beginning. But right now Jake says he's hungry.... so I guess I'll be back later, thanks for both of you for your fast replies. MC