I'm back... Tanya, I'm glad to hear that Amanda's emotions are stable, especially considering the circumstances. It's so much easier to deal with reality when your emotions aren't playing tricks on you. I understand why Amanda's behaviour is so contradictory, however I can't explain it. I have the same problem. How is your son handling all this? Do the two of you ever discuss Amanda's conflicting emotions? I hope someone will take a look at her chart and give you some answers that will be helpful. MC

Kelly ~ I'm glad to hear from you, you hadn't posted in a while. Things with my boyfriend are exactly as they were before we broke up. To be honest, there isn't any difference in my day to day life, whether he's in it or not. I've only seen him 3 times since making up 2 weeks ago. He's perfectly happy with the relationship the way it is, I feel that it's hardly a relationship at all. I worried about pushing too much too at first, but after 3 years of pushing and not getting anywhere, I've given up. I've asked Dave to take a look at his chart to see if it's possible to tell if he will ever be able to make a commitment (Cancer & Leo thread) because I feel like I'm holding onto nothing. I enjoy being with him (unless we're arguing over bipolar disorder) but the little bit of joy I get when I see him doesn't do much for the loneliness on a daily basis. Please keep in touch! MC

Knowflakes ~ I'd like to invite anyone who wants to join our little conversation to feel free to do so. And if you'd like to take a stab at Amanda's chart, it's posted on the thread "For my ill friend", I know Tanya would appreciate it. thanks! Moonladyc

Hi again MC,

Sorry to hear things are no different with your relationship. I hope you get some answers soon about his chart. I'm trying to be patient & let him set the pace with things, but it's so hard! I want to say something like what does your schedule look like, & when can we get together?...But it seems like he's not ready for that, although he does seem to be trying harder with calling to let me know when he's on his way back in town, came over last night after going out for a friends birthday & brought his son over to play with mine today at my suggestion/request. I was dying to ask about Sun & what his plans were as it would be nice to go out...but I refrained & bit my tounge - too pushy! I've never done this slow pace relationship thing before...they've always been the kind where your infatuated with each other & can't get enough...then a year or so into things it kinda wears off & you miss your independence & such. I'm sure this way is better...but so different for me & now of course we have the complication of children to add to the picture! I feel like such a virgin in this process!!! I think I have this Capricorn in my life to teach me patience!!!

Well...take care, & I'll talk to you soon!

------------------
Love and Light,
Kelly

Hi Kelly, I never took things slow either, so this is very different for me too. I keep telling myself it's a good thing, but it doesn't feel all that good. My boyfriend doesn't have the excuse of going out of town, because even though he doesn't live very close, he works 10 minutes away from me and could stop by after work, but he doesn't. He says he is a "freedom junky" and will not tie himself down with plans. I never know when I'll see him or hear from him. I want a relationship that will benefit my son as well, cause he doesn't have any men in his life, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen. I honestly don't know what to do. If I break up with him, I know I won't go looking for anyone new, but if I stay with him I'm alone anyway. So what's the difference? MC

Kelly ~ I'm confused about something. Are you posting both as Virgo Gemini Rising and Eternalmask? Kelly & Kelly Ann? MC

Hi MC,

I'm just Virgo Gemini rising - there do seem to be a lot of Kelly's around here though! My picture should be posted on meet the knowflakes soon as I sent one in last week.

How is everything with you? Anything new? Same situation with your boyfriend & work?

Things are going pretty well in the relationship dept. with me as he seems to be trying harder - yet I haven't heard from him so far today & it's going on 7:30P. I thought he would have called to tell me if he had his kid or not tonight as he didn't know last night. Oh well, I'm not going to worry about it & just go out & do my own thing!

Talk to you soon,
Kelly

Hi Kelly ~ The reason why I was confused is because on another thread she signed, Light and Love, Kelly, which is how you usually sign. Too confusing! I'm glad to hear that your relationship is going better. Mine is pretty much the same. He called 2 weeks ago and asked me out for St. Patrick's Day, but I don't have a babysitter so I can't go. He called a little while ago and said since I can't go he'd stop by after he went out, which will most likely be sometime after 2 AM. I'm very disappointed right now and I'm afraid I'm not handling it very well. Please keep in touch. Moonladyc

Hi MoonladyC

How are you? Did you manage to escape on St.Patrick's Day? I know how you feel. Honestly I sometimes think that Kyril, gorgeous as he is, is my jailer, not my son.

You havn't been around for the last few days... I hope things haven't been too difficult regarding your elusive Leo. Men!!! Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em... alas!

No good news regarding Amanda i'm afraid. Things are still very difficult. For a while I thought I was going to be able to give some great news, but... these situations are so unpredictable...

Write soon.

Love, Tanya

Hi Tanya ~ I'm so sorry to hear that Amanda's not improving yet. Is she still in the hospital? Are her emotions still under control or is she talking about dying again? I wish I could fly across the ocean and help in some way, but to be honest, I have trouble going a few blocks. Please tell her that I'm with her in spirit, so she knows she's not alone. Does she have a supportive family? I hope so. Not having one myself makes me realize how important it is.

No, I didn't get to go out St. Patrick's Day, and as I predicted, he came over shortly after 2 AM. I managed to stay in control, so we had a nice visit. But I can't help to want more from this relationship than the occasional visit. Problem is, I don't know what to do to get it. My lion is free and plans to stay that way. He thinks that the relationship is perfectly fine the way it is and sees no reason to change it. He's afraid that if we get any closer I'll expect him to be my caretaker and he wants no part of that. I do see his point, but it doesn't help me to feel any better about the situation. Alot of people have said that I should just break up with him, but then where would I be? Even more alone than I am now, so what's the point. At least now I see someone sometimes, instead of no one ever. If I could go out and meet someone new it might be different, but then again it might not be, because I really love this guy and don't really want to meet anyone else.

Thanks for writing!
Please keep in touch!
Moonladyc

*pops head out*

hey moonladyC *huggles*
how are you?... did you get my mail?....

Hi Cobwebsoul, yes I got it and I'm so sorry that I haven't gotten back to you. Actually I think the reason is because I had so many things to say to you it was overwhelming me. Your life story was so similar to mine, with the exception of a few sentences it could have been about me. I'll try to write later today. Moonladyc

MoonLadyC *smiles* that's crazy
it's not problem if you don't write soon.. I haven't been checking mail all that often. It's just that I'm going home tommorow so I'll send you an alternate email address
with love
cObWebsOuL
xoxoxoxoxo

Hi MoonladyC, I noticed on another thread that you seemed to be a bit down (no doubt an understatement!) I read a very sympathetic article on depression yesterday by a journalist called John Cornwall and I thought of you... Here is an extract...

" Just as I was coming out of it (his depression) last spring, I had something of a setback, which nevertheless proved helpful in writing this article. One of my oldest and dearest friends, Professor Stuart Sutherland of Sussex University, died after a long illness. One of the most brilliant neuroscientists in the world in his day, he has suffered from a vicious bipolar depression for more than 20 years. He had tried most forms of relief and was unstintingly generous towards those in the same predicament. Just before he died, a new edition of his classic autobiography, Breakdown, was published. He had written a new ending, offering an essential checklist for sufferers of depression. Here it is, in edited form:

1. Only enter Freudian analysis if you are well balanced, reasonably wealthy, and enjoy fairy stories. (I loved that, MC )

2. Try to find a cognitive-behaviour therapist. (Earlier in the article, John Cornwall describes this kind of therapy. It sounded very upbeat, optimistic, sensible and safe)

3. Pick a therapist whose views on life are similar to your own.

4. If you don't like your therapist, leave at once. Faith in your therapist is the single most important indicator of likely success.

5. Before psychotherapy, agree with the therapist on its aims and methods, perhaps in writing.

6. Mistrust a therapist whos says you must get worse to get better.

7. If you are not fuctioning at work, be prepared to take Prozac-type drugs or tricyclics.

8. If a psychiatrist suggests you need to go to hospital, do so. Respite from home is sometimes effective.

9. Teaching hospitals are likely to have better facilities.

10. Insist on physical examination before starting therapy.

11. You are entitled to a second opinion if you are dissatisfied with the first one. If your GP refuses to refer you to a psychiatric depaartment, there are many that will see you without referral (I'm afraid that I don't know the procedure in the US, MC, so that might not be relevant).

12. If you want advice or run into difficulties over psychiatric treatment, contact MIND.

13. Unless you are robust, psychologically, avoid "personal growth" groups, particularly ones run by aggressive therapists.

14. (For us!!!) If a friend is depressed, be sympathetic without being sentimental, and try to restore their faith in themselves.

15. Depressives feel they will never recover:that is a symptom. Most depressions evaporate in time.

16. Finally, remember that it is no disgrace to be mentally ill. Indeed, mental illness is particularly common in artists, musicians, poets and other writers.

I was inspired to send this, MC, after reading your post on the "Wellness" thread. I was rather concerned (after Mr. Immortal's rather lazy, thoughtless comments) that you might think that you are not being taken seriously. What you have is as genuine an illness as cancer (hopefully much more easily treatable) and we are here to listen, and hopefully be of help to you, in the same way that you have been here for us!!!

Yours with love, Tanya

P.S This article was fairly long. I would have typed the whole thing out for you but I am just too slow. It would have taken me forever!!! It appeared in "The Sunday Times", yesterday. Can you get hold of a copy?

Tanya ~ Thanks so much for the article, maybe the paper has a website? As far as taking any backlash from anything I said, I knew I was subjecting myself to it and the way I feel now, I just didn't care. In fact, I think that's why I posted, I was sort of hoping that it would stir up some emotion in me, but it didn't work. I've been "brain dead" for about a week now and knowing how I reacted last time Deathnomore and I crossed paths, I was hoping it would wake me up. But it didn't. How is Amanda? I hope she's doing better. Well, I think that's all I have in me for now. Take care, MC

MoonladyC, you might be interested to know that I saw a book in the Astrology section of Barnes and Noble called Signs of Mental Illness by Michael Gibson, MD. He's a psychiatrist and I don't remember if he addresses bipolar disorder but he does write about anxiety disorder, depression, and a few other psychological problems that appear in the natal chart. Hope this information is useful.

Firedragon