i would suggest gentleness and kindness, even to those who to whom it is hardest to give...we all need it so desperately, especially those with the hardest hearts.

please love and love and love

~snowpea

Amen !

Wonderful thoughts and energy, and we might even be making progress toward a practical manifesto.

'Night all, more tomorrow!

Love,
Greg

In Sunday's comic strip of The Family Circus, little Billy says, "Most years we all enjoy the time between Christmas and New Year's--lotsa love, visitin' with friends, warm smiles and hugs...This coming year let's try for more of that from New Year's to Christmas." Quite!

1. Put aside what $ you can manage for the poor.
2. Practice religious tolerance.
3. Try to treat people with love.
4. Do everything possible to avoid war, but you must stand up for what is just. In our own lives, this could mean standing up against racist people, gossipy people, petty people, clicky people who exclude, bullies, etc. You must speak up when you know an injustice has been done.
5. Don't buy products made in countries where workers have poor working conditions, and are not paid the minimum wage.
6. Lobby for wiping out 3rd world debt.
7. Get to know different kinds of people - another race, nationality, older, younger, different income level, different dress, etc.
8. Education - Educate ourselves in the way the global power structure really works and spread this awareness.
9. Consumer Purchasing Power: Find out the appropriate brands to buy and not to buy. Write to your local press regularly.
10. Love starts with the family. Stay connected to family and friends. Charity begins at home.
11. Be aware of the push for materialism and waste. Try not to get caught up in it.
12. Get some exercise - walking, etc. There is a connection with body, mind, and spirit.
13. Respect and love yourself, and do not take your gifts and opportunities for granted. Develop them.
14. Be gentle and kind, especially to those who have the hardest hearts. They need it the most.
15. Spread the love, visiting with friends, warm smiles and hugs to all the year long ... beyond the holiday season.

It is a great list. Keep it going.

16. Consider becoming a vegetarian.

Wow, it IS a great list!

What I especially like about the ideas we've come up with is that - although they include lobbying and support of initiatives that are far-reaching, they are oriented toward things we can each do as individuals, and I really think that's the key; because when we change our own hearts and awareness to act from a more loving and globally-aware perspective that can touch others and spread from the ground up in a way that has a real chance of making a difference -- whereas ideas that begin with massive institutions and governments changing their policies are much less within our power to alter directly.

Without putting any closure on our list, maybe it's time to start thinking about how we can organize and focus these ideas to spread them to others - and also to keep ourselves focused on them so that they become real guidelines for practical action in our lives, rather than just concepts tossed out on a discussion thread and then forgotten!

I'm not sure exactly what I mean here ( ), but perhaps we could create a "reminder mailing list" for those who want to actively participate ... a list that could spread beyond this site to others interested in making real changes in the world. Maybe people with a strong interest in one or more of these ideas could take "ownership" of that idea and delve more deeply, presenting recommendations and research findings to the rest of us. Perhaps those elements that call for lobbying or encouraging specific government/institutional changes could be supported by petitions or manifestos, and we could sponsor obtaining support for them and presenting them to the relevant institutions. I dunno, just fishing for ways to extend the "practical" side of this to actually make a difference!

Love,
Greg

Greg,

Do you have any Aries in you, besides your moon? You've got a nose for the target.

Perhaps it is time to end the list. Maybe you could e-mail it to all of the Linda Goodman members. That would be a start. You could say:
Happy New Year -
We wish for world peace in the year 2002. Members of the Linda Goodman Forum have composed a group list to enable each of us to live more peaceful and meaningful lives. We hope the changes we make in our own thoughts, feelings, and actions will affect others. Let it start with us.

Edit the list.

It also would be helpful if the following people started topics:
1. Lis - What products should we not buy (or buy) and why? What have you discovered in your research?
2. Aries - Why do we need to regularly exercise in our lives? Is one form of exercise better than another? A good title might be ... Positive Addictions.
3. snowpea - How do you get the right amount of protein in your diet when you are a vegetarian? Maybe you could type out a vegetarian diet for a few days.

As far as getting our list out to a wider public, I'm not sure. You'll probably get backlash for sending it to the Linda Goodman members. People don't like being told what to do. You'll have to be careful to say, "Just take from the list whatever works for you."

Happy New Year -
Love,
Joyce

Greg,
I really needed to hear your last post. Thank you so much. Sometimes I just feel like I'm spinning in my own wheels. You know the song - I Can Change the World, by Eric Clapton? I heard that on the way home from work and it really got me thinking. I can't let myself get so emotionally involved in a Linda Goodman Forum, but I needed to hear from you - to set me straight. I'm not angry at anyone, not Lis and not Aries. I don't want to win an argument, either. I just get so frustrated sometimes. It is okay to have differences of opinions, and we can never give up on people. That is very important. I guess I needed to hear you take more of a stand. You are just the moderator, I'm not going to give you applause, applause, applause. I don't want to model myself after you, and I don't think you are my spiritual leader. I do think you are an excellent moderator, and a very kind and good man. You generally make good decisions, and sometimes, things need to be deleted. You were correct.

I'm sorry if I let you down. If anyone wants to contribute more to the list, I would be very happy to continue on as my role as the "secretary".

Love,
Joyce

Thanks Joyce and I'm sure you haven't let anyone down - certainly not me! And it would be wonderful if you continue as the "secretary" to help keep this focused. Actually the deletions that occurred were not mine but the handiwork of fate, the result of a server crash (see the MINOR DISASTER thread)... but no doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should.

Absolutely, I think we should keep adding to the list as and if bolts of lightning strike us, but meanwhile this would be a good time to start taking some of the steps you suggested - I don't think we're ready for a mass email campaign just yet, but I do think that some such method of communicating our ideas widely is called for at some point. But this WOULD be a good time to divide the labor and drill more deeply into the elements that interest us. So how about considering this a "call for volunteers?" Whoever has strong opinions (or just a strong interest) in one or more of these areas, how about "signing up" to do a bit of background research and recommendations? This could be done either by starting a new topic for that area as Joyce suggested, or just by writing a few paragraphs of guidance and ideas. I'll help organize these into a convenient browsable format that we can discuss and add to, and when we're all convinced that we have something useful to share, we'll figure out how to publish and distribute it. Maybe its an email, maybe its a newsletter, maybe it's a whole new Change the World sub-site. What say? Volunteers?

Love,
Greg

Actually I am not going to bite my tounge on this. I was highly offended yesterday posts for several reasons.

By inuslating against examining the cause of action one fails to even identify the issue let alone generate sultions.

My posts were in no way about blame. I wasn't takign about fundementalists merely the normal person in the street who's life is affected every day by the acts within their community.

The UK certainly has abused power throughout the course of history...what do yout hink the whole english culture of appology is all about.

Randal, as for that people outside the US not understanding, oh I think we understand pretty well. We live the threat of terrorism on a daily basis, most of Europe does because it is so accessable.

Take the IRA, they are evil dooers, but there are fundementally good causes that lie at the bottom of the pile of misguided violent actions. By failing to address these issues the north of Ireland had more than 30 years of volence to contend with on a daily basis.

I wont particiapte further as I really don't think this thread is about finding an international based solutions. I don't think that an international perspective is welcomed. So I'll leave y'all to it.

Lov n hugs

Lis

Geez what is this??? Why can't we talk about finding solutions for world peace without somebody getting mad and storming out of the discussion every time?

Sure there are going to be some things we do not see eye to eye on -- that will ALWAYS be the case, as it will ALWAYS be the case in the world. If the only solution is to go away and stop talking, what does that say about the possibility of ever getting to world peace? If we can't hang in with each other long enough to bat ideas around and try to come to a mutual understanding what hope is there?

I'm mystified, Lis -- take a look at the list of ideas we came up with. Why would you say that we're not interested in finding an international solution? That's the WHOLE POINT of what we're trying to find! I spent a LONG time yesterday writing a very carefully reasoned explanation for why Americans tend to get angry when this issue is discussed in terms of "Americans are greedy and power-hungry" etc. and tried to do it in a balanced and loving way. When someone says "Americans" are greedy and dominating etc., they are talking about ME, because I am an American, and of course I find it insulting -- as well as untrue! Yes, to be sure, there are some elements within the American power-structure that are coercive and have done great harm, as such elements have wormed their way into all powerful governments, but the result of attributing the faults of these coercive elements to "Americans" is an emotional twist that damages our ability to discuss these issues peacefully, because "Americans" who don't do these things feel unfairly characterized ... so I suggested laying the "blame" where it really lies, not on "countries" and their citizens, but on the financial/military/industrial elements who use America and other nations to achieve their own ends. How is that suggestion inimical to finding an international solution?

Come on, Lis, let's work together and get past this.

Love,
Greg

Greg,

Part of the reson I'm upset is because you guys are hearing soemthing that has NEVER been said, certainly not from me. I never mentioned greedy or power "hungry". That said some of the transcription of the UN site clearly show that there is an abuse of power, but that was not where I'm comming from at all.

I also said western cultures, not US. Western countries are democratic so weather we vote or not we are in a very minor respect responcible for the acts that OUR govenements get involved in.

I came face to face with stark realisties of these situation through work at the tail end of last year. With a real live audience.

Where I was comming from, is that We the WESTERN world need to HEAR what the issues are. Not the violence or acts to raise awarness but to actually make a point of finding out what is actually happening from an arabic perspective regardign what THEY see are the problems.

I think an issue here is that there there is a premtion of what those issues are. I think from my understandign that 95% of the issue if that the arabic communities feel unheard. Sort of tattoing it on my arse and wandering aroudn here naked...not a sight I would recommend personally, I don't know how better to communicate that.

How does one really understand the arabic community, speaking to them, getting pen pals, educating ourselves on their issues. The average person in the street over there is not a terrorist. They are just normal people who are livign in a war torn society, suffering the effects oft his day and night. Childern with guns and littlers of shells on the streets. Horizons with barbed wire, that's not living to me.

Sorry I was touched by some of the accounts I heard, but I think shying away from the realities of other peopels world is not a way to resolve the problem. Ok so the intial hit of any discussion might inform us of things we don't want to hear, but by god it will open the eyes regardign what and who we are voting for and how we can affect and prevent further conflicts.

I'll shut up now

L

America is not to blame for September 11 any more so than the Arabic nations are. The American people are not to blame, and neither are the Arabic people. The real culprits are the Bildeberger global elite, whose job it is to keep us distracted and to turn our eyes and pointed fingers to each other for blame while they carry on business as usual.

sheeeesh....this is not about BLAME!!!

There are very reasonable reasons that the arabic comminty is ticked of with the west.

Some of the issues are about a lack of forums that are unbiased by where the money comes from. Where one country carries an equal say in the voting crieria. Where there is a global legislative community of national representation that is not lead by pounds, dollars or dracma.

The UN is fundementally paid for by western govenement (and yes dominantly by the US govenemernt). However if the western govenement is corrupting the decsion making progess because they pay for it more than the east...huston...we have a problem.

World goverenment needs to change in structure to ensure that the more developed contries are not bullying the little guys. Think of them as the kids that get their heads flushed down the loos at school because they are puney.

How do we as individuals actually managed to facilitate that. Because at an INDIVDUAL leve we can create a collectively consiousness of what is actually happening, AND by educating our neighbours, by communicating domestically the need for change. By taking less developed countries issues and making them our own untill such times as they have the same power to control their environements as we have the luxury of doing so.

But unless we can get to the roots of what these less able contries really need as reforms how can we possibly formulate a solution that effectively addresses the issue?

My point is not about balme, or one side of the atlantic against the other, nor is it about the US agaisnt the Arabic commuity. It's about our ability to hear what the problems really are over there.

There are bound to be issues that simply can not be addressed but unless the west is prepared to listen and understand as best we can, then the agression will just get greater.

more than enough already

Lis

I hear you Tink. I feel that until we have enlightened leaders solutions to the grass roots issues you mention will not occur.

So what this means is that as individuals, and like the purpose of this thread, we can do this for ourselves, work on ourselves and our issues to bring on more awareness in our own 'worlds' - our communities and families, in order to raise the vibrations of the collective mind of our world, where we give birth to more aware children who will make the changes we so want to make now. We are the parents of these children - this is our role, we are parenting in a new paradigm. Work on us to a stage where we can accept all religions and races in our own community and love them unconditionally and be able to do this because you are so firmly rooted in your own self - your are in touch with your own inner wisdom and thus can accept others without feeling the threat that they may change you. Accept everyone who seems at odds with you and your beliefs and even the weird neighbour you've never really liked and the person who has done you the most 'wrong' and the shopkeeper who shortchanged you yesterday. When you accept them, they accept you, it is the mirror. We need to release all jugdgement and blame and take responsibility for our own lives and yes, speak out when necessary but allow others to find their own way because until they can walk it themselves, they will not listen to anything you say, even if you walk it - they need to discover it for themselves becaues if they don't, it's not authentic. Walking your talk helps a lot though All this is being a loving 'parent'. You can only be a leading example in your own life. You push others and they push you back. But be happy in your own ways, your own world and environment and be happy knowing others will find their way just as you have and you will embody the necessary energy that effects people subconsciously adn energetically, because ultimately, we all want to be happy and loved. So love and be loved. All roads lead to Rome and Home. Make a difference in your community using some of the suggestions listed that you relate to and eventually we will Comm-unicate in Unity for One World.

It takes much honesty, much commitment and lots of personal shadows and conditioning to work through in order to change yourself but it's worth it and the energies in this world are there to help you. Not many people take it on right now because it's not easy because not many have paved the way so you do the harder work that makes it a little easier for others, like our children, but like someone said here, we are not given tasks that we cannot handle. And the re-birth makes up for the labour pains and then it's all becomes like a dim memory

Love,
moonglow

ps... I posted a response in Greg's 'Prayers for a Friend' thread that would've pushed a few buttons an it was erased in the site mishap. What I realised yesterday is that we may share our ideas and philosophies and ways of being with other people in our own words and know we are living what we are sharing. But in these threads and ways of communicating, you do not always have time to say what you are NOT saying. People often discuss things that you don't say because they make incorrect assumptions that if you say one thing then you must be against something else. I realised that this is their reaction to what you have said and not always a reflection of you. I realise that people can only respond to what you say based on their level of awareness - if they are not where you are at, it will take them questioning it in order to accept for themselves and grow, if they do. Sometimes these issues cannot be discussed without conflict because it is human nature to feel that if we don't do something one way then we must be doing it wrong and blame ourselves. This is the ego talking. It wants to keep you in blame because it doesn't want you to see the bigger picture as it is a separate identity within you and feels if you change, it will disappear. So what happens is we start to get sidetracked and discuss the issues and get into the politics and government forces than looking at real solutions on a personal level. But even this is 'okay'. We all know conflict is necessary in order to grow. It is a means to see where you stand on things and take the steps to making positive changes in your life. But getting caught up in the little mind issues and not looking at the Higher mind solutions just keeps you in the little mind awareness and no growth occurs. Again it comes to choice. We are lucky to be able to affect people with our beingness and know things will fall into place and those needing to be in more powerful positions will get there and make the appropriate changes toward the society we want to live in. But it starts with Me and being good to myself and knowing I can let go of my ego and incorporate it into my new personality which is lead by my heart to allow the Higher Mind in, not being lead by my little mind/ego.

Love,
moonglow

Tink, short of tattooing it on your arse and wandering around here naked why don't you take charge of the education part of our mission ... or at least the part of it that consists of educating ourselves about the arab/muslim perspective? Or better yet, the third-world perspective?

You're absolutely right, we DO need to hear and understand the point of view of the third world, we obviously cannot live in peace if we can't even listen to one another. And here is where great skill as spiritual diplomats is necessary, because it is absolutely critical that this understanding is conveyed in a non-judgmental way, so that it is not perceived as an attack. As Moonglow put it so insightfully, when pushed we push back, and that goes for all of us. As we evolve and gain wisdom we hopefully become mere centered and less reactive, but as long as we are partly biological organisms we will always have some reactive element. And as soon as dialog turns from being exchange of information and ideas to push-and-push-back, the dialog loses its value as a vehicle for moving toward peace.

If you are as passionate about this as you seem to be, then I urge you to take that as a calling. Help us to hear - in a way that doesn't make us feel personally attacked - what the third world sees as the problems and the solutions. If you can do that, you will have contributed an enormous amount toward our quest for understanding and action that leads to world peace, and I'll help you any way I can.

How about it, are you up for it?

Love,
Greg

Hi folks,

I'm sorry to have got my nickers in such a knot. But I do feel so very strongly that the crux of the real issue lies in (govenment) communication systems and abilites of smaller countries to be heard.

I was greatly touched by my very tiny experience of hearing the views of the Arab community. They were SO very reasonable. I take your point that's it more about the thrid world than any specific community.

I do feel that there are some very real cultural issue underlying our own conflict here on these forums. I will start another thread to discuss this as a "walking home grown individual solution".

I will participate as best I can in assisting gaining insight into the views of the east and in educating ourselves regarding their issue. I wont go tattoing my anatomy just yet. Thankfully!

I will also get my head around the way forward with actually hearing what the issues are. There is much that can be done so very easily. And I know that there is much to learn about the problems with Global Government and what the less able world actually faces.

We may all come from different culture and communitie, speak different languages, but it's one world. Mathematics is the only language that's comes close to being global..HOW SAD is that?

x=y+2q-z

L

I think I had an earlier post that was erased by the glitch. Oh well, here's another:
FELLOWSHIP
The goal of community is not spiritual instruction, but fellowship. Genuine spiritual community happens only to the extent that it fosters an open mind and an open heart.

You cannot foster an open mind if you teach any dogma. Giving people answers is manipulative and controlling. Instead, help them articulate their questions and begin the search for their answers. Empower them on their journeys of self-understanding. And let them know that the community is a place where they can share ideas without being judged or preached to. Respect the ability of each member to find her way and she will find it.

You cannot foster open-heartedness if you exclude anyone from your community or give preferential treatment to any of the members. People open their hearts when they feel welcome and treated as equals. Nothing closes the heart down quicker than competition for love and attention. Most people are deeply wounded emotionally and react quickly and defensively to even a hint of unfairness, even if it is not intended.

This is why the primary focus of the community must be on clear boundaries and healthy group process. Each person must be given a chance to be heard. Each member must be encouraged not to stuff feelings or hide them from others.

When a safe space is created in which feelings can be expressed without attacking others, misunderstandings, judgments, and projections can be dissolved. ...

It is absurd to assume that this kind of physical, emotional, and mental reconciliation can happen without a loving environment to foster it. Leaving a group together without teaching them guidelines and process skills is like leaving a toddler alone in a house. He may be okay for the first fifteen minutes, but after that he'll find the chemicals under the sink, and the drawer where the knives are stored. You don't want to see the outcome.

And yet you know it. You see it over and over again. As soon as egos rise to attack and defend, it isn't long before the battlefield is strewn with corpses. And then, of course, you have the walking wounded, the ones who have been hit and don't know it yet. You assume that they are normal until you do something to trigger their repressed rage.

No, you don't want to leave a group of wounded people alone to fend for themselves. You want to teach them about boundaries, about how to create and maintain a safe, loving, nonjudgmental space. You want to teach them how to communicate their feelings without blaming others or making others responsible for how they feel.

Many people who join spiritual communities are desperate to find love and acceptance. They will say yes to the guidelines of the community wihtout understanding them. When the time comes that their buttons are pushed, they may explode in rage, attacking all who get in their way. What do you do in such a case?

Well, you can't read the guidelines to them and ask them to follow them! They aren't going to let you correct them or preach to them. The only thing you can do is to practice the guidelines. Take responsibility for your thoughts and feeings. Don't project. Listen without interrupting. Don't allow yourself to be cut off or steamrolled, but ask that you be heard in the same way that you listened. Do not attack. Do not defend. Just ask for equal time. By not making the other person wrong, but insisting on equality, anger is diffused, and the community receives a living demonstration of the guidelines at work.

Hi everyone,
I know I keep harping on this book I just read, The Silence of the Heart, but I thought the above quote from it was very fitting for this thread.
I really think this quote talks to us strongly. If anyone can have a loving community, we should be able to have one here. I believe in the ideas expressed above that we start as individuals, then work within our communities, including the world community.
Love,
Piscesdreamer

Dear PiscesD~

Thank you for that very fitting and loving excerpt. It goes a long a way toward helping us understand ourselves.

love, snowpea

Thank you snowpea and glad you liked it.
I thought we could all recognize ourselves here! But I think most of us here already know this stuff and we just have to keep remembering to practice it.
Love,
Piscesdreamer

The following link takes you to a website which identifies the ecconomic satus of the thrid world contries.
www.jubilee2000uk.org

Some of the figure on the site are out of date so be carefuly of the sell by date. The site does profile each contry in terms of key exports, and where those exports are sold. It's not to say theya re not then repackaged and sent else where

This was the first site I came to when searching for information on this. Please feel free to provide links to better sites.

This link provides data one levels of debt in 1999. www.jubilee2000uk.org/databank/debttables/debtdata99.htm

What is needed is some volenteers to pick one or two contries and research their issues:

Some of the issues might be: do they have a minimum wadge?, what are the human rights issues?, Would amnesty internally have a problem with them? What is the political climate? What is the key export? What acts of god are likely, famine, floods etc. How does the ecconomy support itself.

I will work of one of this sites tables to identify the top 20 wealthless ecconomies and the level of debt they are in and post it here later.

I've plucked the number 20 out of my head....Please let me know if you want ti bigger or smaller? I guess it may well have soemthing to do with how many people will volenteer to help.

Once the social and ecconomic issues are identifies ...I'm guess the messy part happens when knowflakes of each country who recieve these imports will need to identify which brands come from countries unacceptable human conditions. I think that needs to be done locally????

2p*5=wx/g -1

Lis

oh here comes the tricky bit....wish me luck...Oh the dat is 1999's debt stats taken form the link in the above post:

Ok so that didn't work...
US$ millions unless otherwise stated

Source: GDF 2001 GNP..............fact finder:

Sao Tome and Principe....42
Guinea-Bissau.......... 204
Ethiopia............... 386..............me
Gambia, The............ 581
Guyana................. 621
Sierra Leone........... 652..............me
Burundi................ 705
Mauritania............. 927
Central African Republic..1,035
Togo................... 1,380
Lao PDR................ 1,393
Chad................... 1,513
Congo, Rep............. 1,662
Malawi................. 1,774
Rwanda................. 1,946
Niger.................. 1,990
Nicaragua.............. 2,046
Benin.................. 2,388
Mali................... 2,564
Burkina Faso........... 2,567
Angola................. 2,966
Zambia................. 2,994
Cambodia............... 3,084
Guinea................. 3,603
Madagascar............. 3,666
Mozambique............. 3,730
Haiti.................. 4,308
Senegal................ 4,729
Nepal.................. 5,155...........Proxy
Honduras............... 5,227
Zimbabwe............... 5,234
Yemen, Rep............. 6,171...........Proxy
Equatorial Guinea...... 6,387
Uganda................. 6,397
Jamaica................ 6,557
Ghana.................. 7,634
Bolivia................ 8,122
Cameroon............... 8,719
Tanzania............... 8,725
Sudan.................. 8,819
Cote d'Ivoire.......... 10,425
Kenya.................. 10,475
Vietnam................ 28,682...........me
Nigeria................ 31,432
Morocco................ 34,024
Bangladesh............. 47,211..........Proxy
Peru................... 50,389..........proxy
Philippines............ 80,277
Congo, Dem. Rep..............
Liberia .....................
Myanmar .....................
Somalia .....................

I've edidted out the debt list for now cos this is too long

Sorry I thought it was just as easy to do the lot. The first set of figures are the gross national product.

6t=y+3/b

Lis

movin this up to the top....

Solutions.....actions to be taken....

Wot next?

L