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#115378 - 12/28/01 02:57 PM World Peace: It Starts With Us
Gregory Administrator Offline
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Registered: 02/20/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: North Bend, WA USA
On the tail end of the last discussion of bin Laden and the WTC bombing and the world situation, some of us agreed that it would be nice to start a thread devoted to looking for concrete practical actions we might take to move the world closer to the peaceful, spirit-centered place that we'd all LIKE to see. So here it is!

Maybe a good starting point would be some questions articulated by Joyce at the end of the last thread:

quote:
Like snowpea, I'd like to hear some practical applications. Should I sell all of my stuff and donate the $ to the hungry? Should all religions be banned? Should we be more involved with Linda Goodman's theories? Is it competition? Is that bad? Is war always inappropriate? When is it okay to retaliate?
What is your role in your spiritual community? What is spirituality as you understand it? Is it tied into Linda Goodman and astrology?
Well for starters, I think that choosing to spend whatever portion of our income and assets we can toward feeding the hungry and humanitarian aid for the world's 'have nots' is a very good thing. Figuring out how to do that in a way that the lion's share of it doesn't get funneled off into "administrative costs" or appropriated and sold off on the black market along the way may be a bit of a challenge, but putting our money where our mouth is, is a good thing for more than one reason. Not only is the physical aid so desperately needed by so many people, but it also sends a powerful message into mass consciousness that personal sacrifice to help others is an okay thing to do. This is especially difficult at this time because many of us are struggling financially ourselves due to the shaky economy, and I don't think putting ourselves into survival-mode poverty is a helpful thing to do. But building a world consensus that a bit of personal belt-tightening in order to make the world more livable for those vastly less well off than ourselves is a good thing - even an essential thing - and very important now when we're all feeling pinched, because this is when the "look out for number one" mentality most threatens to sabotage world brotherhood by creating islands of us-and-them where we see "our" interests as being in conflict with "their" interests.

No, I don't think we can or should "ban" religions. As much harm as organized religions have done throughout history by justifying holy wars, crusades, and inquisitions ... and giving authoritarian leaders a rationale for claiming unchallengeable divine authority for their edicts ... religion is also the only connection most of the world has with spirituality, and to take that away (even if we COULD) would be to leave to leave most people with nothing but a secular materialism as a guiding light, and that leads nowhere we want to go. The experience of those political systems that tried to "outlaw" religion (e.g., Communism) is not a positive one. What I DO think we should do is to make our voices heard that fundamentalist religion of the "we have the only answer and everyone else is going to hell" variety is no longer supportable in the world, and this goes for fundamentalism of EVERY variety: Christian fundamentalists that bomb abortion clinics and beat up gays (or morally support such actions even if they don't commit them) are no better than Islamic fundamentalists who kill White Devils. Nobody's God says "hate your neighbor," and the world needs to be told we ain't buying it anymore. As much as I dislike the term "political correctness," we need to relentlessly pound world consciousness with the notion that hate-based fundamentalism is "politically incorrect" and will not be tolerated.

Should we be more involved with Linda Goodman's ideas, and with astrology? Well, it sure wouldn't hurt to spread Linda's ideas of love and magic, or her view of humanity as immortal spirits temporarily occupying a physical reality for the purpose of soul growth, or her expectation for an emerging world consciousness of Light and Love in the Aquarian age. But I don't think we should deify Linda or turn her ideas into dogma. She was an incredibly gifted and visionary teacher who had the ability to touch us deeply with Love as well as to communicate metaphysical concepts that have a universal resonance. But she would be the last to ask anyone to take her as a final authority on anything, and there is great danger in putting a personality rather than a principle at the forefront of our quest for Truth and peace. The truths that Linda taught, and the spiritual insights of astrology, can be found in many traditions and expressed by many teachers, each in their own language and frame of reference. Those of us who have been personally touched by Linda's vision would do well to continue using it as a basis for understanding and communicating about spirituality, cosmic order, and the primacy of Love as the underlying foundation of reality in both mortal and eternal expression. But I see no value in proselytizing a Linda Goodman dogma. Too many dogmas already! What needs to be "proselytized," if anything, is simply spiritual love, however anyone can best connect with it.

What is my role in the spiritual community, and what is spirituality as I understand it? Well I think these questions apply to each of us individually. I have no "spiritual authority" beyond what each of us has in our connection with our higher S-elf - which is actually the ultimate spiritual authority! My role in the spiritual community is simply to seek and speak the Truth of Love as best I can, and to encourage others to do the same. My understanding of spirituality is at root a very simple one: I think we are all expressions of God, that in essence we are all ONE eternal spirit expressing through an infinite variety of unique viewpoints, and that once we really get that we will automatically love our brothers and sisters as ourselves ... because they ARE ourselves! Why would my right hand beat up on my left hand? Why would my liver declare war on my kidneys? All the "parts" of me aid and cooperate with the other "parts" of me because they are all aspect of an underlying unity ... and that extends to the "parts" of me that are outside the boundaries of my skin and ego. When individual cells in my body forget this underlying harmony (which could also be called Love), the result is cancer. When individual bodies and egos forget it, the result is a world torn by war and hate and poverty and strife in all the forms that we see too much around us.

Is competition bad? Is war always inappropriate? When is it okay to retaliate? I don't think competition is intrinsically "bad." It is one of the mechanisms of evolution and growth and creative diversity. All games have an element of competition in them, and it may not be inappropriate to see the separation of God-consciousness into individual centers of awareness as a "game" God is playing with hirself, for the purpose of experiencing Love. But there is a big difference between the competition of a game that spurs everyone to creativity and growth, and the competition of a "zero-sum" game where the end point is for one player to annihilate the others. THAT kind of game is what we call war, and yes I think it's always inappropriate ... it's inimical to the fundamental aims of life and spirit. But here's the really tough one: we live in a physical world where there IS war and violent aggression - and in that setting, when (if ever) is it okay to "retaliate?"

Well I can only speak from my own perspective, of course. I have been a martial artist for most of my life, and there HAVE been times when I've found myself in unavoidable conflict situations. The "spiritual warrior" ethic that guides me personally in such situations is this: first, do everything humanly possible to avoid a fight - and it's almost always possible if you're willing to let your ego take a back seat. Second, if it's NOT possible to avoid (basically, when the only alternative is to allow an aggressor to kill or injure you or another innocent), then put everything you have into quickly ending the conflict and restoring harmony. If you attack me and there is nothing I can do to dissuade you or avoid the attack, I will certainly fight you. But I will not fight as your "enemy," I will fight as your brother aiming to protect us both from the negative results of your mistaken disturbance of the harmony. That may very well mean breaking your bones if that's the only way to end the attack. If so, then so be it -- you chose the aggressive action, and it's not my job to protect you from the consequences of that choice, which you need to experience for your OWN learning. As my current favorite songwriter put it:

quote:
We'll fight,
not out of spite,
but someone must stand up
for what is right.

- Jewel


With regard to fighting terrorism, yes - when there is clear aggression and a clear opportunity to bring the aggressors to justice, I think its both permissible and necessary. Violence is not ended by allowing its perpetrators to succeed and continue. However, a long-term "war on terrorism" that orients nations toward continuing open-ended military action, suspends civil liberties, and further centralizes power in the hands of the military-industrial establishment, is another thing entirely; and a very dangerous one. I think the main thrust of a war on terrorism that has any chance of succeeding long-term has to be an educational/spiritual/humanitarian one. Action aimed at gaining world consensus that terrorism is something the world cannot allow to exist, to eliminating its causes in human suffering and anger over injustice, to rejecting violent fundamentalist fanaticism as an acceptable mode of religious expression, and to demonstrating in every way possible that action based on love and kindness and mutual caring of all the worlds people for one another is a BETTER way of addressing the social ills we have inherited.

Wow, this post has gotten really long, and I'm not sure I've done much to set out possible concrete courses of action that we might undertake to help solve the world's ills ... but maybe it's enough of a starting point to build on. I'm really interested to hear others' viewpoints and ideas. Onward and upward!

Love,
Greg

_________________________
LOVE alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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#115379 - 12/28/01 03:49 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: Gregory]
tinkerbell Offline
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Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 7011
Loc: Old Oak Tree, Never Never Land
Hi Greg,


3rd World countries are ploughing so much money back into paying of their countries world debt that they will never be finanicialy in the possition to build more robuest infrastructures. Lobbying for 3rd world debt wiping may be one of the more effective methods of increasing stability in less financaily able contries.

A second issue here is power of consumer spend. One of the way that folks in this country managed to assist the abolishion of appartide in south affric was to hit them in their wallet. There was a lot of consumer campaging to NOT buy south affrican products such as oranges etc. I know it seems trivial, but when the glorious masses user thei spending power collectively the effects hit the oppressive govenment really where it hurts. Raising awarness of poor working conditions withing specific countries and buying product made in countries where workers are paid a suitable minimum wadge is a means of promoting a better standard of living within less financially stable countries. It may sound like pie in the sky tactic, but buy spending 1 or 2 dollars more on brand of products who are associated with good human rights does have an effect on oppressive regimes, far more than sending in armys to devostate people.

Lov n hugs

Lis


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#115380 - 12/28/01 05:00 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: tinkerbell]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well Greg

As I`ve said before I`m pretty Unwordly regards to current affairs and 3rd World schimozzels
But from all I`ve seen over the years of my short life,I think the best place to start would be to take all their Guns off them


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#115381 - 12/28/01 06:31 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us
Aries Offline
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Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 6394
Loc: Canuckistan
Well I could never possibly add to such a wonderful post as you did there Greg! Sadly,not enough people think/feel like you and hence,this is why the world is in this mess. Everything you said is SO true. Maybe you could run off about 5 million copies and drop them off in the India/Pakistan region,..where its been reported that BOTH sides have said NO ONE wants to fight..they all want peace but yet are gearing up on both sides of the borders for war.(Im still trying to figure that one out)

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#115382 - 12/28/01 06:58 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: Aries]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Along with the landmines and Grenades

Without the weapons they may undergo a brainstorm
They really don`t have to spend all their time at opposite sides of a dividing line shooting and attempting to outdo those on the other side of the fence
Usually a Religious conflict

It`s not the Religion which causes the Wars,but mans inability to live and let live regards others Religious beliefs

And you can only really help others by helping them help themselves
It`s no good just sending a few Planes overhead and dropping CornFlakes every once in a while
But you can`t really help them at all all the while their main concerns are running around killing each other

One only has to look at the backgrounds of the Countries involved in the recent America/Afghanistan conflict to see who`se right and who`se wrong

America,chiefly New York involves masses of people working together and helping one another towards a higher goal or better life

Afghanistan,like I said,seems to be a place consisting of Public Executions,bodies littering the Streets and heavy internal Warfare also

As I said I`m quite naive such topics and like the vast majoroty all I know is what I learn through television and Newspapers
All of which appears to be bad

It seems to me that some of these Nations have fallen so far behind,it`s really a case of going back to basics and beginning from step 1

The first thing ...
Unite them amongst themselves !!

Yellow


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#115383 - 12/28/01 10:21 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us
joy Offline
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Registered: 03/07/01
Posts: 457
Greg,

You did a great job. Although beautifully written, you didn't write just a bunch of pretty words. There was substance and backup, and I was touched. I have to agree with almost everything that you said.

Mayor Rudolpph Giuliani just gave a farewell speech at St. Paul's Chapel in NY. The grandson of Italian immigrants, Giuliani said that "the greatest strength that we have as a city is immigration, and keeping ourselves open to people." We don't have to live in NY to keep ourselves open to people. If we seek out someone who feels different than we are - another race, another nationality, another sexual orientation - and get to know them, we are making a good start. As our friends begin to mix, we can widen the effect.
An example:
My freshman college roommate was black (1969), and became a close friend. I had never talked to a black person before college. Because of the experience, my friends are no longer limited to white/protestants. I share my friends, so different types of people are mixing.

Remember when your mother told you .... "Don't speak to strangers?" Forget that. Keep yourself safe, but go ahead and be friendly. You are no longer a child and you can handle yourself. Your twin-soul, soul-mate, whatever - just might not look like you.

And, Aries, you have a heart of gold.

Love -
Joyce


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#115384 - 12/29/01 11:10 AM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: joy]
joy Offline
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Registered: 03/07/01
Posts: 457
It would be nice if everyone could respond to this topic. It isn't nearly as much fun as finding out how that new guy fits into your chart. What changes can we each make in our personal lives that move us along toward world peace? We have a great start:

1. Put aside what $ you can manage for the poor.
2. Practice religious tolerance.
3. Try to treat people with love.
4. Do everything possible to avoid war, but you must stand up for what is just. In our own lives, this could mean standing up against racist people, gossipy people, petty people, clicky people who exclude, bullies, etc. You mustspeak up when you know an injustice has been done.
5. Don't buy products made in countries where workers have poor working conditions, and are not paid the minimum wage.
6. Lobby for wiping out 3rd world debt.
7. Get to know different kinds of people - another race, nationality, older, younger, different income level, different dress, etc.

Can you add to our group list? Maybe we really call can make a small difference.


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#115385 - 12/30/01 01:00 AM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: joy]
joy Offline
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Registered: 03/07/01
Posts: 457
This topic is not getting a big response. I have an idea. I'm not sure what the "lounge" is - some kind of club? There are always many postings under the lounge club. Maybe one of the members could cut and paste this topic and put it under under the "lounge". Might help with responses.
XO
Joyce

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#115386 - 12/30/01 01:48 AM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: joy]
tinkerbell Offline
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Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 7011
Loc: Old Oak Tree, Never Never Land
Joyce,

the lounge is the young ones chatting...not a club or anything. !

It will pick up when folk come back from christmas, ther are not many people around at the momnet.

Lov n hugs

Lis


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#115387 - 12/29/01 02:17 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: tinkerbell]
Gregory Administrator Offline
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Registered: 02/20/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: North Bend, WA USA
Hi all, sorry I was away most of yesterday ... had a rush contract to finish and had to actually work for a lving most of the day!

Thanks for summarizing the ideas so far, Joyce (don't have any Virgo in you, do you? ). The Lounge is our "young people's thread," or started out that way, so it's more chatty and boyfriend/girlfriend oriented by nature. If you can come up with a catchier title for this thread, I'll change it ... but it's probably okay to let it start offf slowly, it's a "heavy" subject that not everybody is comfortable diving into right away. Please DO chime in though, folks! The more thoughts we have to throw into the stew, the better chance we'll come up with some worthwhile ideas. Group mind, you know!

Lis, I think your idea for third world debt-wiping hits right at the core of the problem (or one of them) ... but its a tricky one because of the way global finance works. The way it is set up in many underdeveloped countries is that multinational companies go into a third world country to "develop" its resources. They use their banking connections to obtain loans that are nominally to the countries, but are really to the corporations, which use them to build large industrial enterprises that extract local resources and use cheap local labor to produce products and commodities primarily for export. This creates jobs but destroys the traditional local economies, leaving the countries dependent on global imports for food and other basic necessities that they formerly produced for themselves, PLUS owing billions of dollars for the development. On top of that, the local land and resources are used as "collateral" for the loans, so when they are defaulted on, the bankers (and their corporate cronies) gain ownership and control of the country's major assets. When the IMF or other global finance organizations suggest "debt wiping" (which sounds very humanitarian), what they often mean is defaulting the loans and seizing the assets! This is a real scam, and it's a hard one to fight because so few people understand how international finance works -- yet it is the principal means of domination and control in the world today, having replaced colonialism as the "preferred" means of wielding global power.

So I would add to the list, "education" -- educating ourselves in the way the global power structure really works, and taking every opportunity to spread this awareness to others. Ignorance is the most dangerous weapon here, and the powers that be are masters at creating problems and then offering "solutions" to them that sound good but actually only consolidate the centralized power structure.

I'm happy to see that most of the ideas on our list so far are personal actions that we can take as individuals, rather than sweeping institutional changes or ideologies, 'cause I think that's where it has to happen, on a ver individual and "grass roots" level. We can't depend on the big institutions to come up with fixes, because they are hard-wired into the old power structure regardless of what glowing and humanitarian rhetoric they may apply to their solutions.

Let's keep adding to the list, and maybe we can also start concretizing it more. For example, what humanitarian aid organizations can we trust to use our contributions in ways that will really get the aid to those who need it? Anybody done any research in that area?

Love,
Greg

_________________________
LOVE alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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#115388 - 12/29/01 03:44 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: Gregory]
tinkerbell Offline
Archangel

Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 7011
Loc: Old Oak Tree, Never Never Land
Hi Greg and all,

I'm not massively knowledagble about wolrd debt or about how financing in 3 world contries works per sey, however I know the UK wiped 100% of the debt of the 26 poorest countries last year. If the other powerfuly countries did the same it would account for 40% of the total debt of these countries. That's without the IMC being involved. This surely has to help the growing ecconomies.

I also had an additional though re consumer purchasing power. Finding out the appropriate brand to not by and the appropraite brands to by and writting to your local press regularly. A lot of the unofficail sanctions against south africa here was done through word of mouth.

I think it's possitive for all of us to focus primarily on things we can do as individuals as creating change has start at home. IT's mroe difficult to change broader issues.

One of the probelms that needs to be address is the way the United Nations is funded. Too much of the money comes from the US which makes it easy to be seen as abusing the organsiation. I read some very interesting transcription on their website earlier in the year where clearly there was abuse of the heirrachie.

Famine releife in the 80's from the feed the world campagin focused not on resolving purely the imediate issues but to focus upon helping countries help themselve. The administration of releife activies in terms of beig appropraite to meet the needs of people concerned is a realy issue that needs to be tackeled. Creating dependance on strogner countires is massively resented. But how one does that on an individual level I do not know.

Finally and most probably the most unpopular opinion I'll express on this site. Is that NO country has the right to force it's political oppinions on developing countries. They are not children, if they want to have a revolution then developed contries should allow them to do so. It's ther country and they understand thier culture better than foreigners ever can. Just my own oppinion which I'd gaurantee to be unpopular.

Love and hugs

Lis


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#115389 - 12/30/01 04:26 AM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: tinkerbell]
Rainbow Offline
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Registered: 04/23/99
Posts: 5718
Loc: Michigan Indian Reservation
Greg....this is a great thread, and I would surely like to help come up with some "solutions"......but I'm going to have to think long and hard (and that ain't easy ) before I offer any contributions.....I am, however, finding what everyone else has to say, very interesting...

Wouldn't it be terrific if our little group here, could really start to bring world peace with our ideas?????

Luv,
Rainbow~

_________________________
Let there be peace on earth We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. - Mattie Stepanek

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#115390 - 12/30/01 09:00 AM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: Rainbow]
snowpea Offline
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Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 258
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Rainbow ~ I know we can!

very very good ideas thus far...

my idea -- not a new one, but you really can raise the vibrations of the planet by becoming a vegetarian...

Linda has some wonderful guidelines for this in Star Signs.

Love and Light from snowpea


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#115391 - 12/30/01 12:01 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: snowpea]
joy Offline
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Registered: 03/07/01
Posts: 457
I am glad to see the responses here. I am such an impatient person. Guess with sun and moon conjunct in Aries, I have an excuse ... not my fault!!!! Maybe there really is something to astrology.

snowpea, I don't eat much meat, but I'm not a vegetarian. I have often thought about becoming one. I'm going to give it some serious thought.

Oh, this is way off the topic, but - snowpea and I have the same sun, moon, rising signs. We also have venus in Taurus in the 4th house. I wonder if we look something alike? We could post pictures for comparison. I could come up with a pic taken at your age, or a current one. It would be interesting and maybe fun for everyone. What do you think, snowpea?

I never give $ to charity organizations, but I do much for friends and family. When the people closest to us need help, we should do what we can for them. More effort should be made in staying connected to our families and long time friends. Maybe that could go on the list. But, if we, as a group, decided on one agreed upon charity, I would donate some $.


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#115392 - 12/30/01 12:20 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: joy]
joy Offline
Afficionado

Registered: 03/07/01
Posts: 457
Reasoning for the above post:
Love starts with the family. If you can't be good to your family, you can't be good to anyone.

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#115393 - 12/30/01 02:17 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: joy]
Gregory Administrator Offline
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Registered: 02/20/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: North Bend, WA USA
Rainbow~, I think we ARE making a difference already, simply by considering it as a group! Thoughts are things, y'know, and every thought-form we share, for good or ill, makes its way into shared consciousness and adds its bit to shared reality.

I believe with all my heart that humanity is READY for a shared reality built on Love rather than separation ... and that the Internet is at this time in history at least the starting point for a global nervous system that truly reflects shared reality (rather than the centrally-constructed and one-way broadcast system of mass media that until now has "told" us what reality to support and believe in.) This is the cusp of an evolutionary shift in consciousness, the opportunity of a lifetime (or of many, many lifetimes) to change the course of history. Whatever ideas we come up with that are both practical and loving WILL make their way into the emerging global brain and make a real difference!

Lis, didn't mean to discourage your idea of debt wiping, just wanted to emphasize that things are not always what they seem in the financial world, and that any solutions on that order need to be looked at really closely to make sure they actually do what they "seem" to be intended to do. Genuine wiping of the impossibly unrealistic debt that the global banking system has imposed on ALL the nations (including the developed nations) is something that must eventually come to pass if we are ever to live in a free and cooperative global society. Just to put this in perspective, 100% of the income taxes collected from americans goes to paying off our debt to the international bankers (strange but true - all new Federal spending, including foreign aid, comes from the issuance of Treasury bills, which is NEW debt that our children will have to pay off ... except that they never can. The two top banking families in the world - Rothschilds and Rockefellers - control combined assets greater than all the National governments in the world. Yes, we are talking about private families who basically "own" the world!) In any event, debt-wiping is definitely an idea worth pursuing and lobbying for.

Snowpea, vegetarianism and any other actions we can take that raise our spiritual vibrations and shift consciousness toward reverence for all life is surely worthwhile.

Joyce, I'm with you on the "charity begins at home" front. I too give generously to those in need that I know personally - even homeless people on the streets - before writing a check to an aid organization that may take 60% off the top for executive salaries and administrative costs, then lose a bit more every step of the way getting the aid to its intended recipients. (I have a built-in distrust of large organizations and institutions, if you haven't noticed! ))

However, I have made modest donations to the Red Cross, the September 11th Fund and the Islamic Relief Fund recently, with some assurance that the help is going where intended. I'll research this some more myself, and any info others have about useful ways of rendering aid will be very helpful.

I do agree with your reasoning about loving and strengthening your family ... it's the fundamental social unit, and the place where we learn our values and experience the meaning of loving community. No way to build a global family on a solid foundation if our own immediate families are divided and unsupportive.

Love,
Greg

_________________________
LOVE alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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#115394 - 12/30/01 06:04 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: Gregory]
joy Offline
Afficionado

Registered: 03/07/01
Posts: 457
I have read some of my past posts, and sometimes I really sound argumentative. It has nothing to do with not liking the person who posted their thoughts ... just their thoughts on THAT post. I'm trying to say that I don't want anyone's feelings to get hurt because I can be blunt.

Having said that, Lis, you stated that - "no country has the right to force its political opinions on developing countries." I can't let that go. We can't consider all cultural norms and practices just fine, thank you. The treatment of women in Afghanistan under the Taliban (and other nations still) should never be excused or tolerated as a form of religious expression. It is wrong to deny anyone an education, health care and basic civil rights, and as Americans, we should be unafraid to proclaim that to the world.
As the Marines say, "Nobody wants to fight, but it's a good idea for somebody to know how." Our special forces went in, made contact with friendly forces and earned their trust, called for air support, and called for resupply. In just over 90 days, these men organized a nationwide revolt and helped overthrow an oppressive regime. The Afghan forces have played down the American role. That is just fine. They did most of the fighting, and they deserve the credit. There can be justice in war and it is important to be able to wage it well. All sensible people are antiwar, but there are things in life worth fighting and dying for.

Okay. I spouted my thoughts. I couldn't help it.

Greg, I don't have much Virgo, just in Saturn. I hope I'm not dampening your sun, ever. I think your sun in Virgo is very beautiful. I make lists to stay "on goal". My philosophy is more, "Keep it smart; keep it simple." I don't like to get bogged down in details that could keep me away from my target. i.e I am passionate about golf. If I focus too much on my swing I lose track of the main goal, which it to get the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible.

It's important for everyone to know that they can take what they want from the list, whatever works for them. Just leave the rest of the list behind. The goal is we want to make changes toward world peace. Most of us can't do much to change government policies, nations, religious practices, etc. We can change ourselves and how we think and feel. We can reflect when we read different opinions. I am seriously thinking about not eating meat, for example.
Lis, have a great day.
Love,
Joyce


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#115395 - 12/30/01 07:13 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: joy]
Aries Offline
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Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 6394
Loc: Canuckistan
I had to catch up on some reading here..but Joyce, I have to say you sound like a wonderful soul!

Ide say your pretty mild for an aries sun conjunct moon too! You gave some great ideas..and like Greg,I am also very wary of giving to these organizations,but thats because we know there is always someone "taking a slice of the pie". It would be wonderful if we truly knew who we could trust that way. I think a good example is to look at all the money that was raised since Sept 11..millions and millions of dollars..then to hear some families who lost the major breadwinner in the family are now facing losing their homes..this is an OUTRAGE and theres no excuse for the sickness and lack of compassion when it comes to the ones handling this money. So please keep us informed if there is ANY truly honest group to donate money too,although I have my doubts,unfortunately,with that one.(how would we really know??) Again, I cant really offer any more than has already been said here..as I know all to well about human nature,as sad as it is. What I do know, is we have an awful long way to go.For now it can only start with ourselves,and at home.
Joyce,I gave up on the red meat,and I dont know if its a coincidence,but probably moreso in conjunction with~ my own growth due to other things,but the aggressions are slowly leaving my body and being replaced with much compassion etc.We were instructed in early days about the eating of "blood" and I truly now understand a lot of this.
Love and blessings to you Joyce,(your energies are very loving and caring) and everyone else.


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#115396 - 12/30/01 09:21 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: Aries]
joy Offline
Afficionado

Registered: 03/07/01
Posts: 457
Aries,
You have too many good ideas not to come up with some additions. Thanks for your kind words.
Greg, change the name of this topic to:
World Peace: It Starts With Us
Joyce

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#115397 - 12/30/01 09:41 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: joy]
Gregory Administrator Offline
Archangel

Registered: 02/20/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: North Bend, WA USA
Great idea!
_________________________
LOVE alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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#115398 - 12/30/01 10:32 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: Gregory]
katee Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 56
Loc: deep cool green woods
Hello everyone,

I've been away the last week or more, because of my hellish retail job (you know how that can get around the holidays). And I will write more on this subject when I actually am allowed a day off, but in the meantime, I have been wandering towards a realization concerning my "job loathing".

I think I am very uncomfortable with the way my employers push materialism and waste. They try and trick you with numbers and visual effects, and it doesn't matter whether these products are destuctive to your body or your environment, the bottom line is "Did you break last years sales amounts? Well, why not? You're pathetic! You go out there and convince these customers that they NEED these things!!" The employees hear this every week at the managers meetings. If they want to keep their jobs and make top dollar, they push their underlings until they literally get sick (like I have been).

Of course, they tell the public how charitable they are. They asked the employees to donate money to the WTC (a very close to home subject since we are located in NJ). So we did. And they put up a big poster in the window on how much THEY (as a corporation) donated. Then they threw a big swanky party, complete with prizes and champagne, to celebrate how well they did this year. Gag.

I think the first thing I want to do to help is to get my massage therapy/ reiki / art / healing career going and quit this dis-eased company that poisons my soul and manipulates the people.

I feel like my eyes are just beginning to open.

_________________________
love and snugglebunnies, amber

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#115399 - 12/30/01 10:51 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: katee]
Rainbow Offline
Archangel

Registered: 04/23/99
Posts: 5718
Loc: Michigan Indian Reservation
Amber......oh! I hear ya, girl!

Luv,
Rainbow~

_________________________
Let there be peace on earth We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. - Mattie Stepanek

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#115400 - 12/30/01 11:51 PM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: Rainbow]
Aries Offline
Archangel

Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 6394
Loc: Canuckistan
Rainbow,..I got your message and being a little sick aint the way to start the New Year!

I just returned from a walk and noticed signs announcing peace walks all durying this next week.(mainly new years day) It may not bring us instant peace,but may spur people to start a walking programme,which in turn can make them feel better physically,mentally and emotionally..and hence spiritually. There is a definite connection with body,mind and spirit...


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#115401 - 12/31/01 12:18 AM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: Aries]
Australdi Offline
Afficionado

Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 508
Loc: Victoria , Australia
Greg
I feel like you have been reading my mind! *grin*...or maybe many of us are 'receiving' shared concsiousness, we seem to be pondering the same thoughts, and comming up with the same answers even though distance divides
there is so much truth in everything posted here.
Amber, I'm excited for you....my own journey began with similar thoughts and repugnace, & questioning!
Joy, you're right...all love begins with respecting & loving self, and at home with friends and family...as it grows & strengthens it radiates outward to include communities and 'strangers' (but none of us are truly strangers)....here on the internet, we are building an alternative community which encourages, nourishes & cherishes love, compassion, empathy, & respect
..a community built on a foundation of love, built with love, in honour of love and reaching for higher love!

I'm sure we're all familiar with the frustration of of not being able to 'save the world, or feed everyone, or fix everything' instantly....but I'm learning that in order to help, I must learn some skills first...some wisdom...and discover some gifts I didn't know I had!
...as I grow, I'm presented with more opportunities to help others...some of them challenging ...some easier...but all of them possible using skills of unconditional love. I am not given a task that is beyond me.
Aus


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#115402 - 12/31/01 03:36 AM Re: World Peace: It Starts With Us [Re: Australdi]
snowpea Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 258
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Hi Australdi ~

best of luck, light and love to you on your new adventure in mining the depths of your heart with your artistic talent on your own special journey of work/love...i know you will prosper and shine!!

snowpea


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