This latest strategy from Israel to occupy until bombing stops is cracking me up like that's gonna work? Pe leeeeze!

Some sanity! somewhere in the land of milk and honey!

I pray for Jerusalem.

If ever there were anything "designed" to make the human race despair of peace, and resign ourselves to hopelessness, this would be it! Clearly those continuing the bombing don't want peace, as it's clear to even an idiot that such incidents can never lead to peace with a far more powerful enemy, especially one as militant as Israel. So what DO they really want? And who are they, really? I cannot believe that the Palestinian people would choose to bring such misery down on their own heads, regardless of the anger and resentment they have ... but the militants doing it "in the name of" the Palestinian people are bringing it down on the heads of people who just want to live ... both Palestinians AND Israelis.

What do YOU think would work Rachel? If you were the policymaker there, what would you do that might have a chance to end the slaughter?

Love,
Greg

Hi Maria ( and all )..
Im sorry I would have missed your question if it wasnt for Terri telling me about it.
The main reason Im not around here much these days is due to exactly this..working on the prophecies,along with a timeline,along with a general spiritual study/beliefs on the shared oneness,etc, with a small group I know.

To go thru a lot of prophecy about the mid-east would take ages,and would also be mainly "biblical". The only way to read them is by reading the books by the prophets,and comparing them with each other. The books of the old testament,namely Daniel is the best source..followed by Ezekiel,Zecharia ,Isaiah,Jeremiah,etc are the best..with Revelation also good,although full of such metaphoric analogies,hard to understand. One could,for example read Rev 17 and 18 and "see" it is New York twin towers, but on the other hand,it can also be something more to come. (in the prophecy world we have learned that many times,more than not,that a prophecy can have a double or triple meaning/event)..there-in lies the problem in deciphering,not to mention the analogies which the ancients used. (it must have been very hard for someone like John of Patmos to envision a sky-scraper,little alone a plane.)
The same goes for Nostradamus.

Having said that, the following link is one of the best I can find online for you. It is general..I doubt 100 percent accurate,but will do IMO..

www.bible-prophecy.com/warmideast2002.htm#020619

One other source I can recommend is books by Hal Lindsey,although his work is highly "christian"..yet not christian enough in some ways. Youde have to read his books to understand what I mean by that. One of his latest is the best,as it goes more into the New World Order,etc..
("Planet Earth 2000 AD")
What is really interesting is to read the first one,The Late Great Planet Earth, and to see how the sequence of events truly unfolded.

We are careful to not mention a timeline ( I personally consider that to fall somewhat under the "false prophets" territory, and although I dont consider Cayce "false", he WAS wrong in many ways with his timeline on his earthchanges prophecies)...
I doubt we are meant to know exact dates. That would cause us to prepare..wouldnt it? Not to mention be more believable..we couldnt have that now..
However,as Jesus said.."by the ripening of the fig tree we will know"..and the tree is getting ripe to be sure!
As for the fires, that is both biblical AND Native prophecy. The hopis were the best for telling us earth will be partly purified by fire. Their "ideas" were based on the evolution of mankind..the fact man doesnt treat the earth or his fellow man "right".
I recall in '99 a couple of dreams I had while practising deep meditation and prayer,and there were heavy fires in the mid-west states. I wasnt given a time/date,etc.

As for the mid-east and events to come..this is extremely general, and dont stone me if Im not right about the sequence
~the troubles brewing now will possibly enforce the New World Order,as others along with B*sh get involved.
~this "should" bring the false peace.
(1 Thessalonians 5:3. While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.)

An "antee-you-know-who" must come to power. War may actually break out before then..there is much discrepency about this. Read Daniel 8:23 for a description about this "person". He may now be in power..
~ a mass Identity mark will play into this somewhere soon..(no one will be able to buy or sell less he have the mark..Rev 13:17)
~Keep your eyes on the FTAA along with the European Union and all other applicable "powers". Study and knowledge in this area tells me 2005,unless we are being tricked. (check out online searches for the FTAA) These are some of the powers that will help make up the NWO.
I know many here dont care for David Icke, but he will truly give the best run down about this fiasco of how we will be bribed into thinking the NWO is the all to end all. Keep in mind it is made up soley of people with money/power. Enough said.

I have to conclude with something that will no doubt freak many out. Although war/nuclear/biological etc is hard enough to fathom..what is possibly worse is the huge earthquakes that will accompany war..probably at the earliest,half-way thru.(again,a bit of discrepancy here) The bible is FULL of these prophecies, I could find you referances if you need them. Nosty quatrains as well as biblical tell us we will be hit by something from the solar system..a comet/asteroid,etc.(.."a millstone was thrown into the sea"..Rev. 18:21)
Then of course,theres the Zetatalk site,which has many completely freaked out over this issue that we will see planet X/Nibiru to cause this. Sitchin is very careful to note he doesnt agree with the Zeta talk timeline,yet is cautious and wise enough to not set any specific date. This as-of-yet unforeseen planet could start moving in,and cause some kind of planetary cataclysm which could spark something to hit us.
We are working a great deal on this one,to know if it is the cause of the "pole shift" spoken of,which would cause this massive quaking,..OR if its a totally separate event of the future.
Its thought by some,that massive nuclear blasts could also cause a great amount of quaking.

In the mean while,there are other "tribulations" to be concerned with..people losing jobs,mass social service cutbacks,(all precursors to the NWO)..and on the earth changes side...weather changes,/flooding,poisoned water,fires/solar flares,etc.

Maria, you should be safe where you are..if the fires leave you alone...although your hubby may want to consider re-inforcing the home with metal angle supports ,etc.
Many will live on...Jeremiah 4:27.."Yet,I will not execute a complete destruction"!!

As above,so below.

Thanks a bunch, Aries. I'll go give it a read. I have some crazy theories, not really tied to the Holy Land, unless the wHole Earth is the holy land...but mixed up with it metaphorically and with Elijah and Moses/Moshe... Good luck to your group. Sounds like an interesting study.

I won't stone you, but I can't control #35.

Rainy Day Women #12 & 35
by Bob Dylan

Well, they'll stone ya when you're trying to be so good,
They'll stone ya just a-like they said they would.
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to go home.
Then they'll stone ya when you're there all alone.
But I would not feel so all alone,
Everybody must get stoned.

Well, they'll stone ya when you're walkin' 'long the street.
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to keep your seat.
They'll stone ya when you're walkin' on the floor.
They'll stone ya when you're walkin' to the door.
But I would not feel so all alone,
Everybody must get stoned.

They'll stone ya when you're at the breakfast table.
They'll stone ya when you are young and able.
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to make a buck.
They'll stone ya and then they'll say, "good luck."
Tell ya what, I would not feel so all alone,
Everybody must get stoned.

Well, they'll stone you and say that it's the end.
Then they'll stone you and then they'll come back again.
They'll stone you when you're riding in your car.
They'll stone you when you're playing your guitar.
Yes, but I would not feel so all alone,
Everybody must get stoned.

Well, they'll stone you when you are all alone.
They'll stone you when you are walking home.
They'll stone you and then say you are brave.
They'll stone you when you are sent down in your grave.
But I would not feel so all alone,
Everybody must get stoned.

Copyright © 1966; renewed 1994 Dwarf Music

Maria

everybody must get stoned?!?! Reminds me of my "hippy days" and "cant we all just get abong"...

goodmorning Maria, I must say it will serve you well to look at things in that perspective..as the whole earth,etc..just as the phrase and implications of the "land of milk and honey" is for us all.

let me know your thoughts/theories,etc some time..start a new thread if you should desire.
There is so much more to scripture then we tend to realize..metaphorically,analogically,etc.
Have you done any study of the kabbalah and/or the torah? Jewish tradition states there are 4 "layers" to the Torah..4 levels in which we can read/interpret it..
~the literal meaning
~the metaphorical
~the allegorical
~and the secret or esoteric.
Much of prophecy works the same way.

..Oh yea,another interest of mine is to work on Jesus'(Y'shua) words about the "mysteries of the heavens"..in which I believe explains the connections of all.

Probably the best way for anyone to understand whats going on now is to start with reading all of Genesis to give the background..followed by the books of the prophets.

Have a good day!

May you and your family be safe Maria!

hi Greg, finaly had a chance to pop in today after a big deadline at work. Nice to relaxe with you guys.

I really do not have any answer to what would bring peace.

I do know that if Palestinians in refugee camps from generations going back to 1948, if they had their lands, their homes and if the population of israel and palestine had their borders, had a great economy, and if each family from both sides lived an average middle class comfortable life and their was work to go around... well if all the basic needs of all was met and there STILL was suicide bombers? I would then know that the idea behind these militants is other than (forcing israel to give up the occupied lands)

So if I were in the place of Sharon, I would make a delicious deal that would satisfy the Palestinian peoples and offer great compensation to the settlers. And see if the millitants continue... than I would attack full force and call it all out war!

(i know it would be quite the task to find that deal and compensation but you gotta look into it... without risking getting assassinated as did Rabin)

Maria,..are you any where close to where there was a small tremor in Colorado?

35 miles (60 km) NW of Gunnison, Colorado (?)

One other thing..we had a near-miss asteroid fly by earth again, for the 3rd time this year..story here..

SURPRISE ASTEROID NEARLY HITS HOME:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/06/20/asteroid.miss/index.html

Rachel, I think that delicious deal with compensation makes quite a lot of sense. It would at least distinguish those who were fighting for justice, and having attained justice, stop fighting, and those who are just fighting out of hatred. Then, those killing from hatred would become more distinguishable from the general Palestinian population (probably nearly all of whom can't help but feel hatred, the way things are now), and maybe, after the delicious deal, the die-hards who would continue the hatred and killing could be arrested without all-out war.

Aries, I didn't know there was a tremor by Gunnison. That's a few hours a way by car. I'll check out the asteroid story this evening. Thanks!

Maria

Whoa, sorry I missed your reply earlier Rachel. I absolutely agree! Some variation of this strikes me as the only sane way to get out of this situation.

And Maria your point is well made. What we keep hearing over and over again from both sides is "we're not going to give an inch, because the other side doesn't really want peace." Well this would settle that question, wouldn't it?

Rachel, you need to go to Israel and run for Prime Minister!

Love,
Greg

Greg
I read your post about your Jewish ancestry. I am happy to report that I have recently discovered mine, although I "felt" it all along. It is hard for me to believe that Israeli soldiers would humiliate or torture anyone, even the Palestinians. It is very heart rendereing, what is going on over there. Everytime I flick to CNN, another suicide bomber has done his damage. What about Saudi Arabia, can't they help their own people? Why do other countries made to monitor the Palestinians? Throughout the world's history, land has been lost and won, many times over. Israel fought and won their independence in the 40's - why does everyone choose to ignore this fact?

Every now and then I receive one of these that needs sharing here.

This is via my Peace and Justice committee at church...

July 11, 2002

2002-177

News Briefs

From the Episcopal News Service

Bishop Riah of Jerusalem accuses Israel of fostering terrorism

"(ENS) Bishop Riah Abu el-Assal of the Episcopal Diocese of
Jerusalem and the Middle East used a report to the Church of
England's General Synod July 7 to launch an attack against
Israeli policies, accusing them of fostering terrorism.

In his report, "Israel/Palestine--An Unholy War," Riah
accused the Israeli Defense Force of torturing Palestinians and
claimed that Israel was contributing to the increase in
terrorism rather than curbing it. He also warned that the
continuing conflict could lead to the extinction of the
Christian presence in the region.(??? from me) Since the most recent intifada
began almost two years ago, he said that 1,600 people have been
killed, including 450 young people under the age of 18.

"It is not humanly possible to live with the tortures imposed
by the Israeli Army," he wrote. "Israeli restrictions on
movement are impeding hospital staff and patients" from taking
care of the victims. "All this does not amount to a war on
terrorism but rather to the systematic humiliation of an entire
people."

He added, "The result of all this is anger, frustration and a
desire for revenge. The Israelis may claim that they are rooting
out terrorism but, in fact, they are creating it. No one is left
with enough sanity to heed the value of human lives. The bottom
cause of all this is not terrorism, as some would think, rather
it is the unjust and illegal occupation of Palestinian land."

Riah said that the occupation "is also corrupting the Israeli
culture and society. This is an unholy war indeed," in a land
"we call holy." After 2000 years of Christian witness, "today
the church faces a serious threat of extinction.This may be
avoided but only if peace is established on justice," based on
withdrawal of the Israelis from all the territories occupied in
the 1967 war.

Pakistani Christians denounce blasphemy laws as arbitrary

(ENI) Christian leaders in Pakistan are pointed to a death
sentence imposed on a Christian man as an example of the
country's arbitrary blasphemy laws. Abdullah (Augustine) Ashiq
Kingri Masih was convicted by a district court for slandering
the prophet Muhammad, an offense that carries a mandatory death
sentence according to Pakistan's penal code. He is appealing to
the High Court, supported by the Human Rights Commission.

The real reason the case was brought against Masih was that
he converted to Islam but continued to meet his Christian family
members and relatives, bringing objections from those
instrumental in his conversion.

Churches have been reluctant to get directly involved in the
defense because feelings among Muslim fundamentalists against
minorities was running very strong, according to Victor Azariah,
general secretary of the National Council of Churches of
Pakistan. Christians account for about 3 million in Pakistan's
population of 138 million.

Churches have made repeated protests against the blasphemy
law which, in its current form, dates to 1986. In 1998 Roman
Catholic bishop, John Joseph, shot himself dead in a courthouse
to protest a death sentence imposed on a Pakistani Christian who
is still being held in solitary confinement. While no one has
yet been put to death under the law, two Christians were
murdered after their convictions for blasphemy were overturned
by the courts.

In 2000 President Pervez Musharraf proposed amending the
blasphemy law but he dropped plans after protests from Muslim
groups."

You know ya'll....it's all very well and good to get the truth out...and to share with the world the atrocities being done ...on BOTH sides....

but it bugged the hell out of me...that this guys main concern was that Christianity would survive there......????

it just seems to me...that this should not be the priority.

I wonder about this guy sometimes.....all these people dying and he's worried about which religion is 'the right one' and if they can talk about it.

the point is...that no one can talk about anything....thats why they are fighting!

Anyway...I wanted to share this.....it does have good insight to the lifestyle that we cannot imagine....

Love and PEACE!

Dani

Hi Valentine
Months later, and still that high-pitched level of horror being perpetrated by both sides. This intifada has to do with fury over the breaking of previous promises between the two sides.

..............

Dani,
Thanks for those articles. If I could just throw a different interpretation on the "survival of Christianity" issue that was important to the speaker in the article.

I agree that the lives lost, no matter whose, should be the focus of people who care. Still, I do understand the man's concern for whether Christianity will survive in the region, in a couple of ways.

I think the story said the speaker was an Episcopal bishop, making a report to his Church, so he would want to speak about the lives of the people in his diocese, which is not just Jerusalem, but the Middle East. That for sure includes churches, and people, in the Palestinian territories.

The people there who he feels particularly responsible for (because they are who he has dedicated his life to -- or I would hope he feels that way anyway) ... his "flock" are suffering the same troubles with getting medical attention for their kids, getting food for their kids, all the same problems that other Palestinians do when Israel imposes a curfew or bombs homes. Including death. I would have to assume some among his flock have died in the bombings, have seen their kids' schools bombed in those accidents that happen when the war machine rolls. Stuff like that.

I interpret him as saying it's impossible to live in Palestinian territories -- no matter what your religion -- under current conditions imposed by Israel, and so the Christians who can leave are leaving. If I'm remembering what I read a few months ago, Bethlehem used to have far more Christians than it does now. And yet the tiny, diehard Christian presence acts as some deterrent restraining Israel from bombing the life out of Bethlehem.

It's all so sad and awful.

Love,
Maria

Hi to all of you,

I am at the moment in Israel, so this post was obviously a necessity to read for me.

There is a lot of explanation for what is going on, but I agree with the one which claims that it is a supernatural situation - it means - this will change only when people will do a soul searching a get closer to G-d. It is a very metaphysical concept but since I have discovered a book called The Bible Code about a year ago I believe it even more than before...
If you need a more further explanation, let me know,
regards,
Pastlives.

I think that must be key, Pastlives...the spirit base of the solution, and I would love to hear more of how you understand it. Thank you so much for the offer!

Maria

Pastlives...

YES!!!

With you right there...maybe you can help us understand the situation from within Israel.

Please share!

Much Love and PEACE!

Dani

hi pastlives,
I believe the Bible Code runs parallel to the kabbalah.~at least a similar thought process.
You are so right to say the closer to G-d concept, (or the Source) is key !!
The "basic" answers are in Genesis.

Hi,

O.K. - here is the way I see the current situation...
The Jewish people are the Chosen People - the Light of the Other Nations. They have a special agreement with G-d. There are 613 commandments to observe (which only about half of them is possible to observe because of the destruction of the Second Temple). Some of the commandments are especially bound to the Land of Israel - the most high place on Earth from the spiritual energies perspective. There are people who do realize it and there are the ones who do not. The First Temple was destroyed because of the unobservance of the first five of the Ten Commandments - that means between the man and G-d. The Second Tepmple on the other hand was destroyed because of 'sinat hinam' -which means hatred for no reason - despite the fact that some people thought that they have observed the commandments in a proper way. For example - one very sad holiday is the 9 be Av - which was not a long time ago. It is to commemorate the destruction of the First and the Second Temple which happened during that time and also there were a lot of other sad events happening in the Jewish history.
There is written in the Bible that before the Mashiah will come there will be a big war - Gog and Magog. There are a lot of people saying that what is going on now is the so called 'hevlei ha-Mashiah'- the time before that 'final scenario'. According to Judaism, the ones who will become closer to G-d in the proper way (which does not mean necessarily to become an ultra-Orhodox BUT to get close to him with your soul - which is more important)will be rewarded when the Mashiah will come. Only the ones that did get close to G-d in proper way will be the ones to get their reward when it happens.
I hope it makes more sense,
regards,
Pastlives.

good work PL!
The analogy of the 12 sons of the tribe of Israel(who then dispersed themselves away from their homeland) shows us you dont NEED to truly be orthodox jew~as you said, its with your soul.(mind, heart and body)!

You know, despite my own Jewish background, I have to say that I have trouble with the "God's Chosen People" concept, because ... well, to put it bluntly, it's a racist idea! If you compare that with Hitler's idea that the German/Aryan people were the Divinely-ordained "Master Race," isn't that really the same doctrine with just a difference of opinion about who God's favorites were?

Now if you take that in a purely spiritual sense, and say that the Chosen People are those who choose God (or as you put it, Pastlives, who "get close to him with your soul") then that makes sense. But the idea that any particular race or religion is "above" the others or "has God on their side" against other races or religions ... well that seems to me to be the CAUSE of so much strife and warfare rather than the way to world peace!

How do you see this?

Love,
Greg

Ah, didn't see your post, Aries ... yes that makes sense. But it's still a troubling concept, because (quite obviously) so many DO take such pronouncements to mean particular races/religions.

Not just Jews by any means, I hasten to add. The justification for Islamic "Jihad" (Holy War) is based on similar ideas that God takes sides in religious wars. And there are many fundamentalist Christians who are equally certain that only Christians will participate in the Rapture and enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

Love,
Greg

I wouldnt disagree with you on any of that Greg!..Your second paragraph said it..actually, the analogy or metaphor is basically about the separation from God. ie: oneness/love/compassion/empathy and all the goodness any applicable "master",including Yehsua proclaimed,(the message about the kingdom within)..and some will get back, others wont for the time being..after that, who knows!?! But I hear eventually it will be "so"..(must be something on an evolution scale)
This really has nothing to do with races/religion, but mankind has made it so.. ~silly menkind..

Anyhoo, Pastlives, good job, one just needs to understand the general tone of the words.

Hi Aries&Gregory,

I think that you understood what I was trying to say, but you are right that it is the center of a lot of conflicts because not everybody does understand this in the right way.
Regards,
Pastlives.

Greg, on the topic of the "chosen people"
I never looked at it the way you stated it. Interesting.
I had always seen the concept of "chosen people" as the people to show the example and spread the light of God around the world, the people God "uses" to extend itself thru nations and lo and behold isn't that what has happened since the first Temple was built? It puts a great deal of responsibility on the shoulders of the "chosen people". It doesn't appear to me as a very easy title to bear, it shouldn't be taken as some kind of "exclusive club" but really to recognize that it is the responsibility of the "chosen people" to share the concept of One Living God and all mysteries connected to It and be an example and the light to all other nations. I wouldn't want to be chosen for this task! It's not an easy one![/LIST]

But you are chosen, Rachel! You wouldn't be here now thinking and talking about these things if you weren't!

Love,
Greg

A few years ago, I started writing a poem called "King Henry VIII's Advice to the Lovelorn." It was a silly jaunt that I never really intended to finish. In this poem, young, modern men and women had dating woes and wrote letters to King Henry the VIIIth asking for advice. Some of his answers were short and brisk, others were long winded, but they always ended with the same lines; either "if all else fails, cut off his head" or "if all else fails, cut off her head."

When I wrote those lines, I wasn't worried about the impact they would have on readers, because I assumed they would kNOW it was a joke. However, when politicians and people with power over the masses tell people it's okay to kill, extremely dangerous things start happening. Lives are lost, and personal tragedies abound. The problem is, millions of deaths and tragedies ARE the equivalent of a joke to the typical politician, who has to pretend all those deaths are for the greater good of humankind so he or she can get public support.

Frankly, I don't think the fighting in the Middle East will stop until someone manages to change the political systems of the world. Hopefully, it will happen soon. The Earth is too good to waste. Love is all that matters.