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#117024 - 07/20/02 09:36 PM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: Aries]
Terri Moderator Offline
Archangel

Registered: 05/31/00
Posts: 3567
Loc: Toronto, ON
Bev

I'm sure you know this song...but in case you don't, here's some lyrics I think you'll appreciate -

The Road to Hell (Part One)
Chris Rea

Stood still on a highway
I saw a woman
By the side of the road
With a face that I knew like my own
Reflected in my window
Well she walked up to my quarterlight
And she bent down real slow
A fearful pressure paralysed me in my shadow
She said 'son what are you doing here
My fear for you has turned me in my grave'
I said 'mama I come to the valley of the rich
Myself to sell'
She said 'son this is the road to hell'

On your journey cross the wilderness
From the desert to the well
You have strayed upon the motorway to hell

The Road to Hell (Part Two)

Well I'm standing by the river
But the water doesn't flow
It boils with every poison you can think of
And I'm underneath the streetlight
But the light of joy I know
Scared beyond belief way down in the shadows
And the perverted fear of violence
Chokes the smile on every face
And common sense is ringing out the bell
This ain't no technological breakdown
Oh no, this is the road to hell

And all the roads jam up with credit
And there's nothing you can do
It's all just pieces of paper flying away from you
Oh look out world, take a good look
What comes down here
You must learn this lesson fast and learn it well
This ain't no upwardly mobile freeway
Oh no, this is the road
Said this is the road
This is the road to hell

_________________________


Love bears all things, Love believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.

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#117025 - 07/20/02 10:19 PM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: Terri]
Aries Offline
Archangel

Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 6395
Loc: Canuckistan
yep, very interesting words.Thanks

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#117026 - 08/01/02 08:04 AM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: Aries]
snowpea Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 258
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Example of the proactivity about which Gregory speaks:


Activists Protest Justice Department's Operation TIPS
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
July 29, 2002

Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - More than two-dozen students and other "social justice" activists gathered outside the headquarters of the U.S. Department of Justice Monday to protest the DOJ's plans to continue developing a program that allows private citizens to report suspicious activity.

Operation TIPS, which is an acronym for "Terrorism Information and Prevention System," is described as "a national system for reporting suspicious, and potentially terrorist-related activity," according to the federal government's "Citizen Corps" website.

But Steven Weiss, organizer of the protest against Operation TIPS, said the plan would be better described as a "citizen-spy" program.

"It pits citizens against citizens, ratting each other out," he said. "If you look at history you can see other regimes that have done that. The Gestapo did it. Cuba still does it. It's McCarthyism all over again."

In a statement issued by the Justice Department, Public Affairs Director Barbara Comstock said the program merely creates an organized information gathering system for tips from workers whose jobs put them in public places and whose routines will help them spot anything out of the ordinary.

"Operation TIPS is simply a reporting system," Comstock said. "which enable[s] American workers to report unusual and non-emergency issues that they observe in the normal course of their work."

But Adam Eidinger, who also participated in the protest, said he fears activities such as his political involvement with the "DC Statehood Green Party" may put him on a TIPS reporting list.

"I can only imagine a situation where private individuals, who are citizens of this country, who think they are doing something patriotic, are actually giving bad information about political activities to the FBI, to the Justice Department, to whoever," he said. "This program is a violation of our rights. It's a violation of the Fourth Amendment."

Alex Billet of the "International Socialist Organization" also participated in the demonstration. He said he believes government officials like Attorney General John Ashcroft will use Operation Tips to send citizen spies into areas that law enforcement can not obtain warrants to search or put under surveillance.

"This is a man who we cannot trust with our civil liberties, with our civil rights," Billet said. "When it comes to our civil liberties, I assure you 'Big Brother' is watching."

Comstock rejected such claims.

"None of the Operation TIPS materials published on the web or elsewhere have made reference to entry or access to the homes of individuals; nor has it ever been the intention of the Department of Justice, or any other agency, to set up such a program, she said.

"Our interest in establishing the Operation TIPS program is to allow American workers to share information they receive in the regular course of their jobs in public places and areas," Comstock added. "Once they report the information, they can rest assured that law enforcement officials will be taking any appropriate next steps."

But even those limited activities are seemingly not acceptable to Congress. In the "Homeland Security Act of 2002" passed by the House last week, a one-sentence chapter relating to Operation TIPS was added to the legislation.

Title VII, Subtitle G, Chapter 97, Section 770 of the Act states:

"Any and all activities of the Federal Government to implement the proposed component program of the Citizen Corps known as Operation TIPS (Terrorism Information and Prevention System) are hereby prohibited."

Weiss says that's not stopping the Justice Department.

"We know that they're going to still try to pursue this under another name," he argued, "or under the same name and just blatantly ignore Congress and destroy civil rights within this country."

Literature handed out by the group claims that Operation TIPS would:


Violate the Fourth Amendment;

Foster an atmosphere of fear and distrust;

Make false arrests easier to justify, using information of dubious reliability, gathered by untrained laymen; and

Give Americans a false sense of security by creating a program with an "elite sounding" name for an activity any American can already engage in: calling authorities when they see something suspicious.


After spending approximately half an hour chanting and listening to speeches, the protesters, led by Weiss, went to the Pennsylvania Avenue entrance to the Justice Department's headquarters building to ask that the department promise to abide by the congressional prohibition on Operation TIPS.

More than 20 uniformed and plainclothes officers from several federal law enforcement agencies blocked the protesters' access to the building, even closing one of two large iron barricade doors to keep them from entering. After brief negotiations between Weiss and the ranking officer, a DOJ spokesman emerged and talked briefly with the demonstrators.

"The statement stands. The program is still under development," said Mark Corallo, deputy director of the Office of Public Affairs. "There have been a lot of misconceptions about the program, and we will clarify those in the coming days. That's all we have to say."

The protesters remained outside the building for another 15 to 20 minutes before leaving voluntarily. One demonstrator vowed to return to the Justice Department every day until the agency agrees to halt the program. She carried a sign hand-lettered with the text of the Fourth Amendment.

Protest


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#117027 - 08/01/02 05:17 PM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: snowpea]
Gregory Administrator Offline
Archangel

Registered: 02/20/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: North Bend, WA USA
Thanks Snowpea.

This is interesting isn't it? The legally constituted lawmakers of the country are saying unambiguously that "Any and all activities of the Federal Government to implement the proposed component program of the Citizen Corps known as Operation TIPS (Terrorism Information and Prevention System) are hereby prohibited,"

but the Executive bureacracy is saying they don't care, they are doing it anyway:

"The statement stands. The program is still under development," said Mark Corallo, deputy director of the Office of Public Affairs. "There have been a lot of misconceptions about the program, and we will clarify those in the coming days. That's all we have to say."

Could total contempt for the will of the people be expressed any more clearly?

Good for the demonstrators! We need more of them.

Love,
Greg

_________________________
LOVE alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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#117028 - 08/11/02 12:29 PM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: Gregory]
Blas Offline
Friend

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 191
Loc: North Bay, Ontario, Canada
I know this thread has died down now, but I thought rather than start a new TIPS thread, I think it's important for people to get all the info out there regarding TIPS for anyone who has missed it.

Having said that... I came across a neat tidbit of info regarding TIPS... now, picture this future, really think about it, use your imagination, this IS scary stuff folks...

http://www.commondreams.org/news2002/0806-03.htm

quote:

In Surreal Development, Bush Administration Routes TIPS Calls to TV Show "America's Most Wanted"

WASHINGTON - August 6 - In a development bordering on what the American Civil Liberties Union called "surreal," the on-line magazine Salon.com today revealed that the Department of Justice is forwarding incoming Operation TIPS calls to the Fox-owned "America's Most Wanted" television series.
"This is like retaining Arthur Andersen to do all of the SEC's accounting," said Rachel King, an ACLU Legislative Counsel. "It's a completely inappropriate and frightening intermingling of government power and the private sector. What's next - the government hires Candid Camera to do its video surveillance?"

"If it continues to cooperate with the government on Operation TIPS, America's Most Wanted should move networks and rename itself 'Big Brother,'" King said.

The author of the Salon article, David Lindorff, reportedly signed up for TIPS more than a month ago, heard nothing and followed up last week with a phone call to the Department of Justice, the agency responsible for overseeing the proposed program. The department gave Lindorff another phone number, which it said had been set up by the FBI. When he dialed that number, Lindorff was greeted by a receptionist for "America's Most Wanted," which features reenactments of unsolved crimes and then asks the public to phone in leads and tips.

Shocked that the number did not connect to the FBI, Lindorff was told, "We've been asked to take the FBI's TIPS calls for them." The ACLU today said that, not only does the Operation TIPS program on its own pose serious threats to the American ideal that neighbors not be expected to inform on neighbors, but the program, when coupled with the power and profit incentives of television, could enhance its resemblance to Big Brother through sensationalism and the thirst for advertising revenue.

Even before its partnering with Fox Television, the Operation TIPS program has come under a barrage of criticism from both the left and the right. House Majority Leader Richard Armey (R-TX), one of the most powerful and conservative members of Congress, introduced a measure in his chamber's version of the Homeland Security legislation that would prohibit the implementation of TIPS and other similar measures. Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, has also opposed the proposal, saying "We could be vigilant, but we don't want to be vigilantes."

"Why stop with America's Most Wanted?" King added. "If a sensational story is what it was looking for, the Department of Justice should have just hired Jerry Springer as its public information officer."

The Salon article can be found on-line at: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/08/06/tips/index_np.html


So yeah, it appears that AMW is taking the calls for the TIPS program. Perhaps this is just a temporary solution until TIPS truely gets under way. Or perhaps this is just the next step of law enforcement merging with entertainment. News and entertainment are already closely merged in America today, just look at CNN and the way they have one hour programs with flashy ads for "The Terror in Mazaar" or whatever, converting violence and terror "that doesn't concern us" into a T.V. show. I still refuse to believe that TIPS will be allowed to be put into operation, even though it appears it already has...


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#117029 - 08/11/02 02:26 PM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: Blas]
Terri Moderator Offline
Archangel

Registered: 05/31/00
Posts: 3567
Loc: Toronto, ON
At this point, all I can really do is just laugh....not the most productive response, but it's almost funny, because it's just so bizarre!

Love,
T

_________________________


Love bears all things, Love believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.

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#117030 - 08/11/02 04:31 PM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: Terri]
Peggy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/25/00
Posts: 347
This is interesting because one of the shows I try to catch a couple of times a week is called "Great Books" (it's on Discovery I think). They discuss in depth some of the most influential books ever written. (Donald Sutherlund does the narrating...love his voice....sorry...)

Anyway...the last few weeks they have had 1984 by Orwell several times. I have the book but have not read it. I am starting to believe it is time for me to do it. The thing is while I love to read I "dread" reading that book. I know how painful it's going to be.
One of the lines from the show said Orwell was afraid the world was heading in the direction that he wrote about and that his writing that book would hopefully ensure that the world never would.

Maybe more of us should read it, or at least watch the movie which looks very intense too.
Has anyone here read it???
Or seen the movie? I believe they said this was the last role Richard Burton had before he died.

I wonder why no reporter has publicly asked G.W. if HE read 1984. Can you just imagine the look on his face???

_________________________

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#117031 - 08/11/02 08:15 PM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: Peggy]
WriteOn Administrator Offline
Administrator
Archangel

Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 6479
Loc: Cripple Creek, Colorado, USA
Blas, Thanks a bunch for the Salon article. Love it!

Peggy, you must read George Orwell's 1984. And if you can get it, listen to David Bowie's Diamond Dogs album. It's his soundtrack for a movie version of 1984 that never was made.

...Someone to claim us
Someone to follow
Someone to shame us
Some brave Apollo
Someone to fool us
Someone like you
We want you Big Brother
Big Brother...

The album is from 1974. Has some hits on it too.

Love,
Maria

_________________________
I keep traveling around a bend -- there was no beginning, there is no end.
It wasn't born and never dies. There are no edges, there is no size.

-- George Harrison

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#117032 - 08/11/02 08:30 PM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: WriteOn]
WriteOn Administrator Offline
Administrator
Archangel

Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 6479
Loc: Cripple Creek, Colorado, USA
A few more lyrics, because I love this where he goes kind of sotto voce and suddenly he's having this little side conversation with God:

Well, I know you think you're awful square
But you made everyone and you've been everywhere
Lord, I'd take an overdose if you knew what's going down

Bowie has real talent for the theatrical in his music...

Love,
Maria

_________________________
I keep traveling around a bend -- there was no beginning, there is no end.
It wasn't born and never dies. There are no edges, there is no size.

-- George Harrison

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#117033 - 08/12/02 06:12 PM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: WriteOn]
Lastchild Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/10/00
Posts: 211
Loc: Mississippi (Salt Lake City na...
Dang, I guess I better start wearing clothes around the house now!
_________________________
To shine is better than to reflect! Unknown

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#117034 - 08/12/02 06:50 PM Re: Operation TIPS [Re: Lastchild]
Sabra Offline
Old hand

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 1128
Peggy and Maria,

Below is an excerpt and a link regarding David Bowie's Diamond Dogs album I thought you might like. Once you get on that web page, there is a link on the bottom to his 1984 song, but it is for RealPlayer (sorry Maria).

quote:
What was originally side two of the album follows the Orwell saga of 1984 faithfully. 1984 the song is the highlight here. A funky wet guitar slaps your eardrums like the echo of bootheels marching in the square, the relentlessly ominous lyrics warning, "Beware the savage jaw of 1984". In what could be a campaign anthem, Big Brother pounds the nails into the coffin to end the story, the ghostly backing vocals contrasting with the lyrics' desperate blind optimism, the politics of forfeiture.
Diamond Dogs

As you said, "Bowie has real talent for the theatrical in his music...". How about a few more lyrics to add to yours? Do you remember Space Oddity by Bowie (1969)? It has been a long time since I heard it.

Ground Control to Major Tom
Ground Control to Major Tom
Take your protein pills and put your helmet on

Ground Control to Major Tom
Commencing countdown, engines on
Check ignition and may God's love be with you


Sabra


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