What really happened to America and the world one year ago on Sept. 11?
Four jet planes crashed killing a few hundred people. Two tall building fell killing about 4,000 people. The pentagon was damaged on one side.

In reality, not much. As 5,000 kids die every year from cigarette lighters, 5,000 from bike crash, 5,000 from drowning. 50,0000 people die in auto crashes each year.
People dieing did not change anything, as for decades, a child under 5 years of age dies from starving somewhere in the world every 2.7 seconds.

So what changed that really affected America? The people became aware of their own vulnerabilities. They became aware of the dilution and illusion of their own lives and the false since of security of the Hollywood Painted metaphor of sex, drugs, and Rock & Roll, carefully twisted and orchestrated by the supper media into our own subconscious over the pass 35 years with jingles, phases, products, purpose and the definition of what is cool, meaningful and who and what is important in your life.
The never-ending story of the American Dream and the continuous expansion growth model of the US economy based on Capital and Jobs (no matter what the out come).

In a flash of reality, 6,000,000,000,000 dollars worth of illusion cleared up.
The value only between the ears of the beholder. Another 4,000,000,000,000 spent by the Federal government to take control of the world, its resources and the people in the name of safety. Home Security? Whose home?
Are the airports and airlines, used by 10% of the people, our home or is it really a big capital venture that pollutes our air and drives the demand for oil?
Large corporations stocks, which have poisoned us from the bathroom, the yard, to the refrigerator with gimmicky do dads of convenience.
Banks and financial structures that for three decades now have robed the poor with high credit interest rates. Taken advantage of our own government to produce a money machine for their personal gain?
Is home the spending of billions on weapons and research that has had no public debate, no explanations of worth or need? To protect us from what? And who will protect the other 5,000,000,000,000 people. Would we be happy in a home surrounded by dead people?

Illusion of safety and security of a 401K, a retirement plan, and the infamous Social Security fund. Most older people knew in the back of their minds that there is no free lunch. They knew the Social Security money was gone long ago. The Social Security payments come straight out of your children and grandchildren's paychecks, or straight out of you own taxes. You are only getting money back (less handling and shipping of the federal government) what came out of your home, your family, your friends and children.

What happened to the illusion that caused it to stay so long and then go so fast?

Believing in a false expectation? The Capitalistic model. The loss of local control of local and state governments. The insidious growth of the Federal government.
Yes, but mostly, it was you, for wanting your government to run your lives and make you safe. To do your dirty work, to make tuff decision about kids, food, and material.
The establishment gave you a list of excuses to be irresponsible, and each of us picked our favorites. America is like a teenage country, spoiled, out of control, thinks it knows everything. The European countries went through these stages. Each with war, turmoil, power struggles. Hundreds of years of pain and suffering, yet they could never quite get the concept of self-rule. America and the world, is now faced with the two ancient problems of mankind, freedom of the individual and safety, security, and companionship of a home. These being technical terms thrown around by agencies, but in a package, are these not called simply, a place to be loved by family, home.

I could write much more. So could you. So why am I writing this?
To ask you all to face reality on the week of Sept 11th. No fear games, no hype, and no hero worship. No false compassion. I ask you to leave the TV sets off, and not even watch the exploitation of the TT events. I ask you to leave the TV off even into the new show offerings, as they are pure crap at best. The media is not serving the people's interest and we need to get control of our air waves for a better purpose.
I ask you to write to you congress and tell them three things. No war, no weapons, no pollution, no more.

I conclude with this, that anyone posting a fear based, an exploitive or hero worship, or nationalistic theme post is only supporting the very elements that are exploiting you and your home.

Nothing changed, it only eraced the excuses.
Your guilty as charged.
It's you choice. Live in the Federal prison or make a better home.

Love and Freedom and Home,

Darwin

-----
Social Security

Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congressmen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, do not collect from it. Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves.

Many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die, except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments. For example, former Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight Hundred Thousand), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives. This is calculated on an average life span for each.

Their cost for this excellent plan is $00.00. Nada. Zilch. This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds--our tax dollars at work! From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into--every ! payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer)--we can expect to get an average $1,000 per month after retirement. In other words, we would have to get benefits for 68 years and one (l) month to equal Byrd's benefits!

--------

quote:

---

I believe in aristocracy, though -- if that is the right word, and if a democrat may use it. Not an aristocracy of power, based upon rank and influence, but an aristocracy of the sensitive, the considerate and the plucky. Its members are to be found in all nations and classes, and all through the ages, and there is a secret understanding between them when they meet. They represent the true human tradition, the one permanent victory of our queer race over cruelty and chaos. Thousands of them perish in obscurity, a few are great names. They are sensitive for others as well as for themselves, they are considerate without being fussy, their pluck is not swankiness but the power to endure, and they can take a joke.

-- From the chapter "What I Believe" in E.M. Forster's Two Cheers for Democracy.

---

Who can say how anyone else should mark this moment or that one upcoming? We can certainly recognize that many will remember the day with a very real grief for the very real loss of their loved ones. The 4-year-old from Ireland, on the plane with Mum, going to visit Grandma. Did I know her? No. Do I have "false compassion" for her. Oh, dear God in Heaven, no. No. No.

She inhabits my senses. And I do cry.

I would trust that each of us would experience this anniversary and mark this day in line with his or her own personal internal guidance and in the light of sensitivity. Perhaps the democratic aristocratic view.

No one here has any power or authority to "charge" people, much less declare them guilty, for any personal expression about the meaning of this event that they may choose to share. That's called "prior restraint" of first amendment rights. And it's illegal, not to mention being hypocritical toward the freedom you mean to espouse.

In a spirit of peace and concern,
Maria

quote:

---

I ask you to write to you congress and tell them three things. No war, no weapons, no pollution, no more.

---

Being that this is a free country, I disgree with that. Sure, I don't want war and pollution any more than the next guy. A lot of Americans and especially politicians had that same philosophy above of "no war" pre 1941 even after substantial proof that the Axis powers were spreading in Europe and people were being exterminated just because they believed in a certain religion. It took Pearl Harbor for the U.S. to finally join the Allies.

Next week I am going to leave my TV set on because I do want to see the faces on the photographs of the people that perished on September 11. Those were actual people that were killed just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those were also brave firemen and police officers that paid the ultimate price because they were just trying to save people. Those people could have been my wife and me. We were just lucky that we were at the observatory deck at the World Trade Center a few years earlier. But this tragedy could have happen when we were there.

For me to turn my TV off is like sticking my head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen. I will grieve for these people the same way I grieve for the "5,000 kids die every year from cigarette lighters, 5,000 from bike crash, 5,000 from drowning. 50,0000 people die in auto crashes each year."

As far a pollution goes; stop cutting your grass with a gas engine lawnmower. They emit a lot more pollution than an automobile.

Sabra

Remember, Proxy, your poem of a year ago? I do. Harrowing sad, and one of my favorite contemporaneous writings related to the tragedy.

Sabra, missed you the last couple of days.

Love is a verb & so is God,
Maria

Proxy, surely you don't mean to say that public expression of grief over the lives lost in the WTC bombings is cynical or inappropriate becase those 4,000+ innocent lives were "In reality not much" compared to the millions of lives lost for other reasons. I know you don't mean that, because if that were so, then how totally ridiculous would it be to grieve and call public attention to the murder of TWO innocent teenage girls in your home state? Why, there are more murders than that every day of the year in any number of places around the world!

Rather, I think that what you are complaining about is the cynical exploitation of that tragedy to build emotional support for an aggressive nationalistic response to it, a response that likely has more in common with the causes of that tragedy than with any meaningful changes that might make such happenings less likely in the future.

I, too, am already disdainful of the impassioned pleas for national unity behind a military-authoritarian program that will doubtless be heard behind much of the rhetoric surrounding the commemoration of this attack. We will hear it used to justify military aggression overseas, and authoritarian repression of civil liberties internally, and that sucks.

But that's no reason to ignore the tragedy or pooh-pooh the very real grief and loss surrounding it. To the contary, it is one more opportunity to call the world's attention to the absolutely unacceptable consequences - in human terms - of a world power-structure that is built on greed and separation and hatred and anger.

The events of last September 11 did change the world forever, perhaps not least by bringing to the direct attention of Americans some of the more brutal facts of life in the world situation that we had hitherto been more or less isolated from and complacent about. Pandora's box has been opened, and there's no way to stuff the troubles back inside and pretend they don't exist ... or that they should be ignored and minimized.

The only question is whether we will use this recognition ... and the grief and emotions it focuses ... to make some positive changes in the world that brought such a tragedy into being; or whether we'll just use it to rattle sabers and talk about kicking butt around the world while giving up our freedoms as a "patriotic duty."

Whatever your views or political stripe, the events of 9/11 were a turning point in the world, as well as a great human tragedy. Turning off the TV or ignoring the commemoration won't change that. Using the attention to focus awareness on the real problems and the real solutions rather than meekly swallowing some glib propaganda, might make a difference.

Love,
Greg

I can't cry hard enough
Performed By: Victoria Williams
Written By: David Williams & Marvin Etzioni

I'm going to live my life
Like every day's my last
Without a simple good-bye
It all goes by so fast

And now that you're gone
I can't cry hard enough
No I can't cry hard enough
For you to hear me now

I'm going to open my eyes
And see for the first time
I've let go of you like
A child letting go of his kite

There it goes up in the sky
There it goes beyond the clouds
For no reason why
I can't cry hard enough
No I can't cry hard enough
For you to hear me now

I'm going to look back in vain
And see you standing there
When all that remains
Is just an empty chair

And now that you're gone
I can't cry hard enough
No I can't cry hard enough
For you to hear me now

As many gather to pray in this time of rosh hashana, it matters not what your background is, let's join in cause when many gather in prayer, positive change can immerge. When christian holidays begin let's join in cause when many gather in prayer, positive change can immerge. When muslim ramadan begins let's join in cause when many gather in prayer, positive change can immerge.

Greg, I would be interested in your opinion concerning what happened here in Montreal Concordia University as B. Netenyahu was stopped thru violent protest from giving his speach.

But at the same time, I feel the same as Sabra...wanting to tune in to hear the stories and see the faces....to once again remember to empathize...to feel....to honour in my own private way.

Throughout the year here and there I've heard comments, usually from citizen's outside the U.S. saying that we need to basically shut up already, move on, stop having a pity party. But, how could we forget? That is the one positive from this terrible tragedy....that we are united to remember, not for some overly sappy patriotic reason....but because we were rocked spiritually. We remember so to question...to try to understand....not the United State's position in the world,but the World's position. If a whole nation can be united in sympathy, then the possibilities for a united world become tangible. All one...and so it goes...we're all a chain reaction of energy and this knowledge can come to those who choose not to forget. I think that most people (or maybe just me, can't speak for anyone else) might fear forgetting as much as another terroristic attack. Fearing that that is what the terrorist's are waiting for....for the moment we forget and slip back into complacincy again. Not to sound paranoid or anything

You can never go home again...we can't turn back now. As Greg always says "onward and upward"

Love, Lisa

You ask "how can we forget?"

I agree, we should not forget and I add... let's also NOT forget the attrocities over seas and not just sympathise only with one over another, let's not forget the afgan people and what they have suffered the last 20 years (a worse case than sept 11) let's not forget the pitiful situation of palestinian refuges (ongoing but never resolving) let's not forget the genocides in eastern europe and rowanda (any commemoration for them once a year?) let's not forget half a milion children starving in Irak (and more to come soon)

You are right, How can we forget? But let's not be bullies crying only for our gang but humanitarians recognizing suffering all over the world... caused by a few on top who probably are planning their next move for non other than self interest...
and these few are also scattered all over the world.

Let's not forget...

That is what I meant when I said (hopefully) we are trying to see and understand the World's position. Terrible we had to be awakened to the suffering of the rest of the world in such a way...to look outside our safe little cocoon country and our safe lives to realize that we are a small portion of the world's population who suffer atrocities everyday. I don't know what fears me more...the terrorists or the ramifications that our own indifference and self-indulgence could bring to the future.

Honestly, after Septemember 11th for a while I felt such a conflict within myself. Conflict between wanting desparately to reach out and connect with others and wanting to withdraw from others, because all of the zealous patriatism made me nervous. It didn't seem right to band together so fiercly....which ultimately only alienates ourselves more from the rest of the world. Not that banding together is a bad thing, but quite positive....but also in a sense it breeds a "you and me against the world" mentality in a way.

I wished at the time I could have scattered some Earth flags in with all the red, white and blue. To some just saying that will seem traitorous. Yet, I am thankful to be a USA citizen and to live in a prosperous free country. But I just wish I could also be thankful to live in a prosperous and free World...that's all.

You guys are awesome! But you know that.

Ok, Neptune has me in its cross hairs so I'm going out to find a fantasy and a good hamburger.

BTW: How far back is Neptune going to Rx?

See yea later, la dee da dee da skip ta ma lou, step step-------slide..

Love and ouuu, look at the pretty clouds
Darwin

The dust, the smoke, the clouds
from the dust of September.
The sadness, the sorrow, the darkness
from the dust of September.
The pretty sites are gone, the love, the death
from the dust of September.
The families, the lives taken away
by the dust of September.
Our country is sad, but our country still stands
in the dust of September.
We will never break, we will stand together
through the dust of September.
People hurt, hearts broken, but we survive
in the dust of September.

How I agree with you!!! Thank you so much for your post.

Darwin,
You have such a chip on your shoulder, and I feel sorry for you. I am sure you have had a very difficult life. You just don't make much sense sometimes - random babbling that is hard to follow.

Better luck in the future with your life - women, kids, etc. Try to find some happiness, and keep that negativity in check.

Happy Birthday, Greg.

It has nothing to do with my post or me. I was confronting a media control problem that I think is acting irresponsible of late and has its creditability and integrity at stake as a public service for information that is required in order for a democracy to continue to function. It operates on the people bandwidth.

The NEWS has become part of the entertainment business and is owned and operated by such businesses. It is about rating for revenues. It is obsolete and cannot be trusted.
Almost all commercial activity has become a lie and a deception.
Marketing ploys are used to sell products and services.

The desire to blame an invisible enemy under the call for patriotism, turns to nationalism, which creates isolation from the rest of the world.
Isolation will allow great atrocities to occur in the world that pale to the TT event.
What would be next? Oregon attacks NY. How about Okalahoma attacks Texas.
Why not another civil war? Get rid of all those @#$%^& whatevers.
Maybe I'll go fight with my sisters and brothers.
Maybe I'll yell at the neighbor's kids.
Maybe you will yell at me because of your personal problems.
It's all between your ears.

Love and Light, You have no one to fight or kill, except for yourself.
Darwin

In my town the Michigan Militia holds meetings at the VW hall. This is the orginization that was tied in with the Oklahoma Federal building bombing. Can you imagine the things I heard people say? Can you see why that would make me nervous?

Let's recap: thousands of U.S. citizens were killed by a pack of extremist Muslims merely because they disagree with our way of life. We don't think the same way they do, so therefore we are scum who must be exterminated.
And then you didn't agree with proxy or mine or whoever's opinion, so the insults flew. In a few paragraph's you put down the entire Canadian country and proxy for spouting sensless ramblings and bullshit...oh, and judged us as unpatriotic.
How is that way of thinking so different from the terrorists?

All I was trying to stress is that the message that I already knew....that we are all connected and one....a message that became even clearer after September 11th...was being lost again by isolating ourselves from the rest of the world. That doesn't mean I don't believe in the American way or hate my own country.
I may not agree with the system or the President , but I believe in the initial vision of our country...to ensure freedom and democracy.

For Darwin to be personally attacked here is really sad when he was only stating an opinion. Where is the freedom in that?

~Lisa

Nobody should be attacking anyone for anything. Not people, not countries, not personalities, not ideas. Identifying error where it occurs (in our perception) is important and useful. So is correcting error, where possible. Attacking is useless and harmful. That goes for all attacks of every kind by any one against anything for any reason ever.

Until we learn this, we haven't learned what 9/11 has to teach us!

Love,
Greg

Oh bissie!!! B-I-S-S-I-E....

Seeing as you can't read this on the other thread because it's about christmas,

Atually young lady I have a bone to pick with you

What was that nonsence about "no other contry advertises for people to make charitable donation" etc. ALL the time in the UK, in fact we have whole TV programmes dedicated to it. eeeekkkk. Telethons and national charity nights, in fact it's verging on over kill.

Remember "live aid" the world wide concert which was arranged by UK pop singers and snowballed globally from there?
http://www.charitychoice.co.uk/

And that's just the Uk.....Ireland, France etc I know for sure it happens there as well...not sure about the rest of Europe cos I've not been very fr/watched TV from there....A fair whack of the rest of the post was erronious too... ......

lov and definately not Christmas

Lis

~And I will come again, my Love,
Thogh it were ten thousand mile!

I am SO proud to be able to say that

hahahahahaha

#So fare thee well my bonny lass so deep in love am I....#

L

Why have generations of our ancestors lost their lives for this nation? I guess before there can be an army, navy and air force, our citzens must believe that we are worth defending. Too bad there is such little focus on what America has done right in its history.

I still feel fury about the 11th. Are you thinking, ... how dare I? After all, we were responsible for slavery, imperialism, racism, and a too low minimum wage. Yes, democracy is an experiment - in ordered liberty. Not perfect, but worth a battle.

I don't live in isolation. I drive by Valley Forge Park on the way to work every day. I love to go the the Philadelphia orchestra, and I pass the Liberty Bell on my walk from the train station. Little reminders. My dad was a pilot in WW2, and my son served in the Navy. Proud of them.

I'm proud of the great diversity of people in the US, as well. I've learned a lot from many of my friends who have lived in other countries.

Thanks for the birthday wishes. Please don't call me a Typical Virgo, however. I hate that typical stereotyping kind of talk.

Regards,
Joyce

And this, coming from a leader..who is right now, providing us nothing but lip service, innuendos about so called "evil-doers",going thru the motions to make it "look good" and no real proof Saddam is up to what hes suggesting.
Be extremely grateful that your son is no longer in the navy. Someone MUST be looking out for him. Many are about to die!

But I do mean what I said, Joyce ... and yes, I do think the passengers on Flight 93 were heroes, and yes I will fight for freedom and to defend the innocent, you bet I will!

There is a difference between attack and defense, isn't there?

Forget the political embroidery for a minute and look at it in martial arts terms. Having the ability to easily kill or injure other human beings is a great responsibility. What I teach my T'ai Chi students is that there are two ways to fail this responsibility:

If you initiate the use of force, or apply greater force than is necessary to end an attack, you have failed your responsibility. But equally, if you allow evil to happen to the innocent when it is in your power to prevent it, you have also failed the responsibility of your strength.

It is not tolerance that is the virtue here, it is compassion. We should not tolerate terrorists any more than we should tolerate muggers or burglars. Evil must be resisted wherever we encounter it, or we are no friends of light and love. But resisting is not attacking. It is not hating. It is not fueled by an anger and righteousness that keeps us from seeing the humanity of the enemy.

And we must see the humanity of the enemy, otherwise we can only perpetuate the cycle, no matter how good our intentions. Separation breeds separation, hatred breeds hatred, attack breeds attack. Defense is a different animal. Defense is based on love and a desire to preserve life. The strongest defense is one that loves the attacker as well as the attacked, for both are expressions of life, and when the actions of the defender spring from the deepest love and reverence for all of life, then they are invincible. If I am guided by "what is best for life," and I am confronted by a bomber who will kill innocent people if he gets past me, then I will stop him. If there is no other way, I will stop him by killing him. But if it comes to that, it won't be because I hate him, but because I love the people he would have killed, and because I love him, too: evil is a "mistake" the soul makes when it thinks it is separated, but attack harms all of life, including the attacker.

By no means do I say tolerate terrorist ... or dicatators ... I say do not tolerate them. But it is only with a tender heart that we can know that we are fighting for what is right, rather than for "what's best for my gang." Believe me, that moral clarity will be increasingly difficult to come by in times to come, it's worth cultivating now!

In the long run, the only lasting strength is love.

What is it in this country that is worth defending? It is exactly that ... a belief that what we stand for as a nation is what is right - not for what is profitable or what is clever, or for what extends our national influence - but for what is right: for freedom and equality and honor and integrity and charity and brotherhood ... all the "apple pie" virtues we grew up learning to believe in. These are worth defending.

And now more than ever it's important to be certain that it is these values we are defending, and not something else.

Love,
Greg

PS - I am really happy to see you here again

It is ludicrous to think that Saddam is just sitting there, minding his own business.

Hello, Aries. Hope all is going well for you and your family.

Joyce

That is what I was trying to convey in my post above - thank you . I thought I was losing my sanity for a moment there .

Greg -

I agree with you that nobody should be attacking anyone for anything. I liked the way you put it in martial arts terms. Several times in this forum you and I discussed and agreed there has to be checks and balances within our own government. As Joyce said, "democracy is an experiment . . ." and "Not Perfect . . ."

But neither is this world. Not when we have the Saddam's and Hitler's on this planet. Sure, the U.S. should not be the planet police. Nor should we attack other countries willy nilly just because we believe they are going against our values. Should there be checks and balances for the world?

A lot of people thought Hitler was harmless in the beginning. After a while a lot of countries believed Hitler would not invade other countries as he promised. While it was happening a lot of people didn't want to believe his atrocious crimes against mankind. Even with the proof, there were people then as there are today that refuse to believe that there were gas chambers. If the U.S. did not join the war, would this country be as free as it is today? Would Hitler have been satisfied with just conquering Europe?

How do we defend those people that need defending or should we be isolationists. There is a fine line between isolationism and imperialism. When the Kurds spoke about Saddam like Aries did above regarding our leadership, Saddam used gas to exterminate those people. What kind of proof do we need? When I was stationed in South Korea, the locals overheard some of us talking about and at times criticizing the U.S. President. A couple of them ask me if we were allowed to do that. After I said "of course," I returned the question to them. Then one of them whispered in my ear, "No, we are not allowed to. We would be in big trouble and go to jail if we did."

Sure, a lot of Koreans, especially the younger generation want the U.S. presence out of their country. Many times we got the Korean version of the "finger". But, at the same time the older generation was "grateful" we were there. At times they would genuflect or salute us as we passed by. They knew the moment the U.S. military left their country, North Korea would invade.

Maybe it's because I like adventure and I live dangerously at times, but when I joined the military and signed the contract, I knew there would be risks involved and that I might die. Everybody that joins knows that. My father-in-law was in the Navy for 20 years. Whenever he was on sea duty he was away for six months at a time from his family and he knew that would happen when he joined.

I have come close to death three times myself in the service. I also saw two pilots get killed when their jet fighter crashed in the woods next to our runway strip. I drove the tractor-trailer to haul away the wreckage and saw their crushed helmets. I knew there would be times I would be away from my family. I was away for a full year overseas. I also knew I might be "shipped out on a secret mission, to an unknown location, and have been ordered to tell their families they will NOT be in contact for 90 days" as Aries said. In Omaha, my squadron was on alert seven times in four years with a transport plane ready to roll and take us to an unknown destination. Each time at the last second we were ordered to "stand down."

Although this country is not perfect, I am "grateful" that I joined the military so I and others can live in a country where we can speak freely and criticize our president if we want to. I am just as "grateful" for the young men and women that are in the military now.

Sabra

Joyce

sanity restored . . .

Sabra

God is sprit, Nature is earth. But man is caught between these worlds.
War is the absents of love. Death is death. God is God. There are no boundaries on earth or in heaven. For one to attach their spiritual power to a set of symbols representing manmade idols is the equivalent of murder, just like breaking any commandment of the Old Testament or the breaking of the new. And for any breaking of the law there is only on spiritual punishment. Death of the soul. The price of sin is death.

To be enlightened is to have spiritual awareness. This awareness comes from God.
Once enlisted as a soldier of the sprit there is no turning back, no deserting, nowhere else to go on earth. It is a lifetime commitment resulting in eternal life or eternal death.

Karma dies and the sprit is born. Death dies and life begins.
Karma is death, sprit is Love.
Understanding through knowledge of the sprit is Love.

It is not magic, it is not another place filled with imaginative idols and powers and energies and vibrations and levels. It is only we in the now, understanding our circumstances. The rest of the mess is God's business.

The only problem in the world, as it has been forever, it the lack of spiritual understanding. I it not about how nice you can be or how friendly you can be, as the sprit can discern things, or what you are doing. It is about the intentions within the heart of the sprit. And your sprit must be in sync with God's and Nature in order for you to be in a position to understand the circumstances of the moment.

Without this synchronized balance of sprit, mind and God, you will charge head first into Karma, which is death. And we are nowhere near as smart as we would like to think.
There have been many before you and me that thoht they knew, and they knew nothing.

War on this Earth cannot be justified anymore, by anyone, because the knowledge and understanding has been disseminated. To make war on this Earth is to defy God.

Welcome to the Age of Aquarius.
Where the sprit speaks the truth and the worms squirm in the dirt.

Maybe they'll find the Book of Life,..err, I mean the Hall of Records..

I just returned from all these exact same conversations....only I had them 'out there'...with much worse grammer.

Some of them thar out there ain't got no good english......

Dar....I completely see what you are saying...and I understand your anger ...at how people ...as a whole...do not manage to connect the dots.....like Lisa said it's all connected.

And I share Lisa and Greg's fear of blind patriotism...way too many people hoping we will be both blind and patriotic..

But I also share the anger Joy and Sabra have....

You know....often times...when I get mad....it's after I have been incredibly sad....and I gain strength in anger.....it rallies me around and helps me think clearly....when I am sad....my emotions are too all over the place to respond with wise or healthy choices....maybe others are like that as well....???

Maybe if you get mad and DO something....and it does not have to be invade a country...it could be giving blood....it stands you back on your feet, you know?

Works for me anyway.....

Proz...theres just not a whole lot of people out there who are capable of seeing the big picture...no one has taught them how....and they just don't know.....so they swallow what is given .....

but please...Have Faith that 9/11 DID open the eyes of many many more.....and that the old methods of politics and tv just don't fly..

the coverage HAD to be on the air.....too many people have spent the last year pretending they felt nothing when they felt something really big...and they needed a safe vent for that emotion....to not utilize it, for even just kindergarten therapy, could actually bring about more problems later.

Some people never would have explored their own grief or anger or depression without that coverage.

others, like us here, chose to watch....we did it for higher reasons....reasons of understanding others.....and respecting the victims.....

there were also other gifts in the coverage....all the survival stories we have never heard......all of the life time friendships that have been made......63 babies born since then...and the first one is walking now.....

and even journalists who remembered how much they hated their jobs that day...how they struggled to let us know what was going on in those first horrible days...

I just read a book on their story....and many...not all ...but many look at their own jobs very differently now......many were caught in the outer sides of the falling towers.....and their feelings as they thought they would die...could not have been much different than the feelings of those who DID die.

I think where everyone is getting uncomfortable....is trying to connect Iraq with 9/11.

For most people it is two very different issues......one about patriotism and making sure this never happens again...the other about ego....we can all taste the ego.....and a crazy man with really bad guns.

thats not to say Saddam should not be stopped.....he should......absolutely.....

But is this the right time?...do we really know?....remember that GW said we would never hear about a lot of things......
I feel pretty certain he has kept that promise.......

And if it's really going to happen...why on earth would they be so stupid as to advertise it?...makes me feel like our military would be sitting ducks....and I am not willing to sacrifice that at this time.....

I believe we can keep him contained....so that this Hitler can never get loose on the world the way the last one did.

In the meantime...you wanting to turn off the tv and grieve in your own way....is what you needed...and what you wanted....what others did was what was right for them.

Personally I spent the entire day with Peter Jennings....and I started it with Peter and Lisa.

Having Lisa in my ear as we went thru those moments in the early morning was very special to me....because last year I was all alone...this year...I spent it with my friend.

I hope a lot of people spent the time with their friends.

I spent the day rolling in the memory of last year and cried my eyes out......cleansed my soul of the weight I had been carrying and then went to church and sang for everyone of those people who died and for all the people who were not with their special person that day....for 63 babies.

Whats most important is that everyone honored the day...for it was a day of mourning...and you did it one way...and other people did it another.....

And I would be willing to bet that just about everyone of them...spent some time thinking about how they never understood how other countries felt......

have we not all looked at it differently since then...isn't it more painful?...don't we flash back to 'our turn'?

thats growth....painful and sucky as it is....it's still growth.

Everyone here feels passionately about 9/11.....and everyone has a valid point of view.....it's so important that we listen to each other....and open our minds to all sides.....

It's like setting a good example for the kids....

As Gramma used to say..."It's all the same GOD."

Peace and much lOve to everyone,

Dani

I love it when your Pluto shows.

Love and Hugs,
Darwin

Love,

Dani

Best line on an already fantasticly interesting thread. I thought I'd keep my big Canadian nose out it for once and see what the 'merkins talk about when no one is looking You guys are all fab, and dispite my sometimes cynical comments, I know and can feel your pain. It's tangible. And we all react to pain differently. Your country is in labour folks! Some of you are reaching for the laughing gas to make it all a little rosier around the edges. Some of you got an epidural after your first contraction, just cause it hurts too damn much. And some of you feel that rushing heady sensation at the knoweledge of how birth and sex are intertwined, inseparable, and so all mixed up with the pain is a love so strong it shines in any amount of darkness from hearts that beat strong and sure, gripped by faith so powerful it can make any miracle come to pass. And new life is slowly emerging.....

I love you all!!!

Terri

PS - Sorry for the 'girly' analgy Proxy!

Love,
Greg

That is exactly what is happening......plus you have the experience factor...the mom's who have given birth before and how different that is from your first time.....

And don't forget the episiotmy!!!!
I know I never have!!!!

Love,

Dani