Joyce, Yeah I got it all. I just didn't say it all. And I was joking, but I wasn't jabbing. My sister lives a very similar life, plus tennis! I love her to pieces. She's crazy about me too, and we disagree about a huge number of topics, but we never have disagreements; just jokes. Sorry to superimpose that on you, but you look a lot like her, or rather, if you mixed your looks and mine you'd have her exactly, lol.

She's very pretty. So are you.

Now, why won't you give me an inch on my concern over the rights of Americans? Didn't I back your rights on the forum? Lol, that's a joke with a point. I'm someone who tries to defend people's rights to be who they are, and I think you appreciate that about me. Suddenly, in my mainstream reading (which is, I think I've made clear, where I tend 85 percent of the time to get my news -- and the other 15 percent comes from Catholic newspapers) I am becoming quite alarmed, to the point of actually beginning to feel terrorized by my government about the rights of myself and the people of this country.

And what you wrote back was that "your side" won and, not only were you completely uninterested in my concerns, you went ahead and seemed to lump me into "not your side," based on what I'm not sure...and then, having lumped me into some "enemy camp," even though it was my first postings on the issue, you went ahead to pretend the issues I expressed concern about were therefore phony because they come from "the enemy camp."

So, I guess I figured you must just be being snobbish. I don't know why else you would suddenly have such disdain for my concerns.

I've actually become quite horrified in the last few days over what's going on in our country. This is my actual feeling, like the blood draining out of my face.

Maria

P.S. I think Terri's reference was a literary reference to Animal Farm. That didn't have anything to do with jabbing at you or jwhop. I took it as referring to the idea that we'll all be treated the same under the "information" program. We'll all be evaluated by our data. All pigs are equal. It certainly doesn't have anything to do with hippies and cops. Sheesh.

Maria,
sad and tired

Hi, Maria -

Thank you so much for your post. Please don't be sad and tired. I'm flattered that you compare me to your sister. Good that you get along with her, too.

I don't think I am snobbish, but maybe I come across that way. Sometimes I feel that there are 2 strikes against me (on these forums) for having a relatively nice life. I'm not going to apologize for that. I have my ups and downs like everyone else, but I'm usually feeling grateful and happy for my lot in life.


Guess I'm dense sometimes. I read Animal Farm enough times in HS.

No matter how well you get along with someone or admire a person, controversies and disagreements come up - as more time passes by. It's the handling of the disagreements that matter. I think we are handling this okay.

Cause I do admire and respect you.

I am going to respond in greater detail on another thread about my feelings on the Homeland Security Bill. Greg asked me a couple of questions, and I owe him a reply, as well. I'm sure you'll find it (and will probably disagree) - but at least I won't be redundant!

Much love to you, Maria.

Joyce

Thanks, Joyce. Much love to you too. You don't have any strikes against you. There's nothing wrong with being comfortable and happy.

One of these days I'll tell you a little story about how a person who works hard to get sterling educational credentials and then continues working hard, progressing within her profession, paying her bills, attaining a certain level of security, etc., doing everything responsibly, can still be pushed into poverty when a health problem strikes. Federal law protects private disability insurers from being sued for punitive damages, so they have absolutely no incentive in the world to keep their contractual agreements. If you sue and win, the most you can do is get them to keep their original agreement. Meanwhile, they know that in the six or seven years it takes to get from your original claim to a federal courtroom, you'll have spent everything you ever had and more on doctors and lawyers, and you'll have had to downsize your house, car, lifestyle, etc., if you even manage to continue to have any of those things. In other words, they starve you out so you'll take a settlement. They never have to pay what they are supposedly contractually obligated to pay. In fact, a fair number of claimants die before the insurer has to pay them anything.

I've ended up in a horrible financial situation myself, and it's not because I'm lazy or stupid or irresponsible or didn't have the right insurance. But it is to a large extent because there are federal laws set up to protect huge and highly profitable companies at the expense of any semblance of fairness to individuals.

That approach -- protection for the big money interests and to hell with individuals -- really galls me now wherever I see it, and I suppose I may take it more personally than I should because of what I've been through.

I don't begrudge you your comforts. But the "American Way" has some ugly, nasty, unfair elements in it too, and it's easier to see them when you've had your face jammed into the dirt. So I figure I don't "have" a whole lot that's terribly valuable, but maybe I have a valuable perspective to offer every now and then.

I appreciate the perspective you offered on the other thread too. I always appreciate getting lots of perspectives, and knowledge from many angles, on any issue.

Now I have to go write my best-seller and get my little family out of this mess.

Maria

Don't you believe it Joyce.

I believe it, Maria! In fact I see at least two bestsellers on the horizon!

Love,
Greg

Maria,
You go girl!!

I'll buy your book and I don't have a clue what it's about!

I hear and totally understand what you're saying about a disease and/or an accident can put alot of middle class American's on their rear.

My husband was diagnosed with stage 4 throat cancer 4 years ago and he is the principle money maker for our family so that was a very scarey time.
Thankfully he is doing very well and I cram enough vitamins/herbs, and potions down him that I think he's healthier now than he was before but yes, there are alot of cracks in the health/insurance industry that many hard working Americans can fall in.

But you have soooo much spirit, I doubt anything could keep you down for long!!

Peggy,

Keep "craming the vitamins/herbs, and potions down him". My father was misdiagnosed. They actually thought it was just a very bad sore throat. When they finally did figure out it was cancer it was too late. First he had a laryngectomy (surgical removal of the voice box). But the cancer spread so fast, he died shortly after at age 54.

Speaking of "cracks in the health/insurance industry that many hard working Americans can fall in" what about the pharmaceutical companies especially in regard with the elderly? Very expensive.

Maria -
How is your book coming along by the way? I am sure you are very, very busy with it now. Have you made any more progress since the last time you told me about it?

Hi Joyce -
Good to see you back in these forums .

Sabra

Yes, my husband was misdiagnosed, too. By two ear nose and throat specialists! One said it was tonsilitis and the other one sent him to a sleep clinic for sleep apnea. Funny, he had a hard time breathing that caused severe snoring but when they got that egg sized tumor out of his throat he could breath much better!

I am soooo sorry you lost your father to this. My husband got sick about the same time George Harrison did. They gave my husband two years at most. You know they say it's rare but there are sooo many people who get this. My husband would not allow them to operate. He participated in a clinical trial. He's my miracle man, no doubt about it!!

Wow, Peggy, hooray for your miracle man! It is so great to know that he could recover like that. I never knew he was sick, but I'm glad he's well. Here's to lots more of that, all around.

Thanks also for your vote of confidence, Peggy. You too, Greg. It's gonna take a miracle, I'm sure.

Love,
Maria

Expect a miracle.

Love,
Greg

Peggy,

"Yes, my husband was misdiagnosed, too."

I am so sorry to hear that. That was recent for your husband. I can't believe that is still happening and yet from two medical opinions . I can't help but think that if my father went to a different doctor, he may still be alive .

My mother was another medical mishap. When she had a heart attack in her apartment, the paramedics came and said she was hyperventilating . After they left she was still in pain, so I carried her down four flights of stairs and drove her to the hospital. They confirmed she did have a heart attack. She passed away months later because her heart was severely damage mainly because she didn't get to the hospital soon enough .

That is maybe why I have a hard time believing in miracles in regard to the above. I also can't apply it to work. Just good old fashioned hard work is what it takes. If I were to sleep all day for example, that would be my issue, but I wouldn't blame others or expect a miracle as an excuse for not getting something accomplished.


Sabra

Sabra, I am not surprised, only saddened. For me it was just yet another example of a "system" I had faith in till I needed it and then found it sadly lacking.

When I was turning in for bed last night our local NBC affiliate had an interesting commercial. They asked, did we realize that every check we write, every library book we read, every movie we rent, every e-mail we send will all be going into the new "super-computer"? Has Big Brother overstepped their authority? With the passage of the new Homeland Security Bill is this what we can expect in our future? We will have a series of special reports right here on NBC channel*.

Where was the media when this was being discussed?? I also read a report that said hardly any of the senators had time to read the 450 plus page "monstrosity" of a bill. I thought if they didn't read it they shouldn't vote for it. They are not informed.
But we are in the process of refinancing our house and our banker is SHOCKED that my husband and I read the forms before we sign them. He said we're the first ones he's ever seen do that??
I REALLY do NOT understand this kind of thinking...or lack thereof!

Hi Peggy and others,
This may be a good time once again to post David ickes website who many THINK is a crazy man, but he as well as others told us YEARS ago what was coming...
Heres his opener
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/visitor.html
And heres a list of articles about the rich,etc who are in control for globsl domination
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/article.html

The main agenda, quote...
"CALLS FOR A WORLD GOVERNMENT, CENTRAL BANK, ELECTRONIC CURRENCY, ARMY AND A MICRO-CHIPPED POPULATION"

Read, learn and discern.

I pulled this out of my data base, its something christian prophecy scholar Hal Lindsey said in "The 1980s, Countdown to Armageddon" which he wrote 22 years ago!..from page 111..
------
.."As scary as it may sound,many of these conditions are already coming to pass.At least one of these conditions would have been impossible before the advent of computers.
An international currency has already been introduced. Units called "special drawing rights" or SDRs,are the currency which member nations of the International Monetary Fund currently exchange.
But even closer to the prophecy of a world currency system is the use of electronic funds transfer..or EFT. This system eliminates the need for cash by electronically adding or subtracting money from a persons account as that person earns or spends money. All transactions are conducted using credit cards.
Although this system is still far from being widely used,it is being tested in cities such as Arlington,Ohio,where people for a period were assigned credit cards in place of cash.
I believe that one day soon,currency will no longer be our medium of exchange. Instead,we will all be assigned computer numbers for life.~~Hal Lindsey.
---
I have most of Hals books, they are worth the read.

Greg,

All you had to say here is but true. You speak the truth my Brother, but there is hope in we the people, and your last paragraph says it all. We need to band together and let our voices be heard...

Why am I smiling?

Becuase EVERY news program I watched last night reported on this issue. That includes:

CBC at 6 (National Canadian)
Global at 5:30 (Toronto area only)
CP24 (Toronto area all-news channel)
Buffalo's ABC affilate at 6

and it was the only topic discussed on 'Counterspin' a weekly show that usually features a round-table type discussion that last night had a young Arab woman from the Leauge of Arab Canadians, a well-known Cdn. right-wing political scientist, a member of a Cdn civil rights advocay group and two Americans, one from the 'left' and one from the 'right'. Their conversation sounded a whole bunch like ours here

But it does my heart good. It's important and heart-warming to know that people are discussin this!!! At long last!!!!

Love,
Terri

Aries,
I took a look at D.I. a few years ago and had to dismiss him as just tooooo out there for me.

Then last year, low and behold HE was featured on a show about secret societies (especially skull and bones) and this was shown on the HISTORY channel!

So, I've read some of his more recent work. I think he says alot of things that are "true". But somehow his point of view does not work for me. There are people he names that absolutely give me the creeps like they apparently do to him, too but then there are others he names in the same category that I am diametrically opposed to what he says about them.
My heart AND my gut tells me Jimmy Carter is a GOOD man!!
D.I. said he had "convulsions" after sitting near him on an airplane. I don't "get that" and like I said it is opposite my own "gut instinct."

And I do not understand how people who write books like his are allowed to get away with it and not be sued.

It's almost like there is "some truth" in there with alot of disinformtion and then everyone will "throw the baby out with the bathwater." (That's a southern phrase...I'll explain if I need to.)

I don't know. Jim Marrs uses some of D.I.'s material in his books and I feel differently about him. He seems more credible but I'll admit, mostly I'm just confused!!

Yes, Terri, there's a lot of discussion about it now, and that's very good!

Peggy I have much the same feeling about Icke's research as you. I've actually been studying this stuff for decades (long before anybody heard of David Icke!) so I know from my own multiple independent sources that a lot of his information is factually accurate, especially the parts that relate to the interlocking policy organizations and foundations (e.g. Round Table, Bilderbergers, Trilateral Commission) that articulate the New World Order agenda ... and the high ranking members of government and commerce internationally who constitute the overlapping membership and directors of these organizations.

I don't agree with his tendency to assume that because someone is a member of such an organization, or because they are active in projects that will further the NWO agenda, that they are conspirators or ill-intentioned. Certainly some are, but my impression is that the overwhelming majority of those who serve this agenda are sincere, idealistic people who truly believe that what they are promoting is for the benefit of humanity.

Don't forget that the Russian revolution that launched one of the bloodiest totalitarian regimes the world has ever known, was supported by a huge number of humanitarians, social and political leaders, teachers, intellectuals and other idealists who really believed they were supporting a great step forward for mankind!

As far as his reptilian ideas ... well I can't deny the possibility, but there is no part of that idea that I take as "fact," or that influences my political perceptions.

I think Icke is a useful source of a lot of collected information that you'll only find in bits and pieces elsewhere, he seems to be a pretty balanced individual not a wild-eyed radical like many conspiracy researchers, and in the "fact based" portion of his presentation he does do a pretty good job of sourcing and documenting what he says. But of course nobody should be taken at face value about any of this stuff ... he's just one contribution to understanding some of what is going on behind the scenes.

Love,
Greg

Hi Peggy, yes..thats why I threw in the word "discern". However, I know Icke probably is more "right" about most issues than he is "wrong". I recall taking a look at his chart a while back..highly neptunian. Hes either seeing on other dimensions, or hes wacked out/delusional/illusional. Ide bet its more the first with a dash of the latter..

Veneo!!!! Nice to see you here posting. Ive been the busy bee fighting local and federal injustices, please let the other guy know..lol.
Its going to be a long one! Truth will prevail in the "end"..
Keep the faith, and as you say..ONE love. Hey, what did Greg edit out? I dont see that often here..

HAHA Terri..then you should have seen Crossfire today..a short debate about Canadians...the left guy likes us..lol

Hi Aries ,

A while ago, I went on the David Ickes site when you suggested it before. I had limited time, so I didn't dig that deeply. But because you suggested it again, I went back to both links. I am trying to keep an open mind and learn more.

Maybe it's me and my web searching skills didn't kick in either time, but as much as I tried I couldn't find anything I could dig my teeth into, so to speak. I went through a lot of his links and it was mostly advertising for his books or for his appearances. When you have a chance, could you offer one or two other links (nothing to lengthy) that has something more concrete. No offense here, I am just trying to figure out exactly what he is trying to say.

Thanks,

Sabra

hi Sabra, Im going to post a bit of an interview excerpt so one can get a "sense" of Icke. (for those who dont know)..This was an interview about "spiritual answers to global conspiracies"..

------------
LE: Can you give a specific example of how the media is used to influence public opinion?

David: I mention in the book a mass mind-controlling technique which is used all the time, which I call the "problem-reaction-solution." A problem is covertly created and you (whoever is doing it) make certain that someone is blamed for the problem. This might be a war. It might be a run on the currency, or a government collapse. It can be anything. You then use the media to stimulate public opinion in relation to your created problem, so that the public cries out: "Something must be done!" At that point, the public will accept anything...as long as something is done!
-------------

LE: You're not condemning anyone for being a part of a conspiracy.

David: Right, I'm not into condemning people. But I am into pointing out what's going on. One of the things I point out with very much back-u evidence, is how the same people, on apparently different sides of politics, are actually connected to the same organizations. These organizations have a proven agenda of a world government, a world central bank, a world army, microchip population, and so forth. I show how these apparent opposites in politics are there to persuade us we have freedom so we don't realize we're in jail. These persons are not opposites at all but are a part of a one-party state. The book shows very powerfully the connections between the last two U.S. Presidents, who were apparently opposites and on different sides--Bill Clinton and George Bush. They were both involved with the same organization

that's from this link
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/diarticle-interview.html
-------------
This one which basically talks about the (SAD!) racial profiling "concept" is excellent!

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles3/innocentarabs.html
--------------------

Heres his predictions to come. Take note of point # 6 (about big brother)
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles3/predictionsoficke.html
-------------------
I rather like his thoughts here which he states at the end of his "predictions"..
NONE OF THIS HAS TO HAPPEN, BUT IT WILL IF WE SIT HERE AND CONTINUE TO ALLOW THE INMATES TO CONTROL THE ASYLUM THE PEOPLE HAVE HELPED THEM TO CREATE
-------------

Heres a list of many other articles..
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/article.html
--------
Im not sure what to really make of this one..but IF its true..we're basically screwed blue and tattooed.
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles3/bushlies.html

Thank you Aries !!

Time to do some reading . . .


Sabra

Peggy,

I'm 100 percent with you on Jimmy Carter. I believe he is a very good human being.

Maria

Welcome back Veneo.

Hi Everyone

Nice discussion here. I'd have to say that I agree with pretty much of what Greg says about Icke, as not all of his information resonates with me, but much of it does and is true.

Aries...you are so good a providing information dear one. It's nice to be back! I was wondering how long it would take you to find out I was around and respond. Hi Maria.

I certainly reccomend checking out the links Aries has posted. Troy (my husband for those who don't know me) uses some of his information and has links on our site as well, and we met a woman in Seattle this summer who's met Icke in person and says he's a really nice guy, who seems a lot more normal than one would think based on what he talks about.

Oh, and on the edit thing... Greg did me a favor and took out the huge space between my post and signature, since it wouldn't edit out when I tried to fix it. I guess I was having a Virgo moment.