Seeing as how it's Christmas morning, I thought I'd share this interview with Gregg Braden, author of Awakening to Zero Point: The Collective Initiation and other books that span the spectrum of science/religion/spirituality. Here he refers to "Christ consciousness" and the conscious evolutionary process of being "Christed" in a context that includes but goes beyond the Christian religion, and applies to all human beings ...

Merry Christmas to all!

In reply to:

---

Gregg Braden
A Spirit in the Smokies Interview

Born June 28, 1954, Braden was always attracted to the mysteries of life. "I had a propensity for tearing everything apart to find out how it
worked." On his fifth birthday, he received an electric train set. When alone a few days later, he stripped an electrical wire down to copper with a scissors and stuck both ends into an electrical socket. "I honestly don't know what I was thinking, and yet I remember doing it very methodically."

Within two weeks, a second near-death experience occurred at the neighborhood pool. "I remember going to the deep end of the pool and slipping in, expecting to sink to the bottom. Then I started floating upward until I stopped before the surface of the water. I felt no fear or concern about breathing. I just completely let go." In both cases, Braden was visited by a presence who offered the choice to return to his body and live, or translate into a different existence. In both, Braden chose to come back.

"Of all the experiences in my life, those two were the most pivotal in relation to what I am doing now. I experienced other worldliness, which was very different from the hard core sciences that believe if you can't see it or touch it, it isn't real. Rather than having me believe in one OR the other, my life was set up very early to integrate the two."

"Plus I am a Cancerian. I'm not into astrology much, but it's true for me that the experiential world of my feelings is very important. As a Cancerian, I am to know my self and my world through feelings. On the other hand, my path has been through the hard sciences and in the corporate world which denies internal experience. So ultimately, to personally survive, I had to find a way to reconcile my feeling world with what the doing world was showing me."

As a child, Braden lived his two worlds. In the experiential world, he had tremendous feelings for nature and the creatures of nature. He would venture off and return with various critters to care for. "At one time there were so many boxes in the garage that my parents couldn't fit in the car." He also studied ancient civilizations, especially Egypt and China. And he was intrigued by Earth's geologic history from his study of dinosaurs. Later he became a geologist who noticed evidence in the Earth's crust that corroborates the cataclysmic changes and predictions he read about in ancient texts.

"The geologic record indicates that the magnetic fields of Earth have shifted previously, at least 14 times in the last 4.5 million years. Additional evidence suggest a 180 degree polar shift occurred about 13,200 years ago." This was a time when it is known there was a sudden melting of the polar caps and tremendous flooding on the planet. It also was a time when humans inhabited the Earth. This led him back to studying ancient teachings.

Braden's study included ancient biblical scriptures, some of which are in India and Tibet and only recently available. He also has studied the philosophical teachings and sacred sites of indigenous peoples in the United States, Mexico, Peru and Bolivia. From these, Gregg offers fascinating vital information.

According to Braden, in 325 AD the Emperor Constantine created "the Council of Nice" (pronounced "Ni-say-ya") to take all of the existing biblical materials and put them together into one text "He saw these documents as redundant and too mystical to make sense to people at the time. There was no 'bible', just a lose assemblage of papyrus reed texts, scrolls, sheep skin documents and tablets. Twenty-five books were taken out and an additional 20 supporting reference documents to scholars were removed. Then the Council condensed and reorganized the rest."

"The documents that remained and became the original Bible were poorly translated and rearranged in the 12th century. So what we have now in the Bible essentially is a Readers Digest, condensed version of a much broader text. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the Bible -- I'm suggesting that it is incomplete, at best. You can hold the Bible side by side with these ancient texts and see exact wording and whole sections missing."

"The Dead Sea Scrolls, for example, were the precursors to these texts: the Essene Gospels of Peace-Books 1-4, recently discovered Gnostic texts like the lost gospel of the book Q, lost books of the Bible, the Ethiopian manuscript of the Book of Enoch, recent translations directly from the Aramaic of Nazarene texts that had been lost for centuries."

If the message from these texts could be condensed into four key tenets, Braden indicates the first two would be:

1) Of the many people on Earth, there is only one of us here. There is a single consciousness expressing through many bodies.

2) This single consciousness is moving very rapidly toward a convergence point of Human and Earth history that the ancients call the Shift of the Ages. This point of convergence Braden devotes to his first book: Awakening to Zero Point: The Collective Initiation.

"The nature of The Shift has been questioned, pondered, postulated, hypothesized and worshipped for thousands of years. The consequences of this Shift transcend the boundaries of religion, science and mysticism." Braden describes the shift using the analogy of water. Water changes states into liquid, gas or solid, as a function of temperature and pressure. Braden claims that we are changing states as a function of a lowered overall magnetic field and elevated frequency of the Earth. "It is to these frequencies that each cell within our bodies is attempting to 'map' itself."

"In Biblical terms, the act of consciously vibrating from one state-space into another is referred to as Resurrection. We may define Resurrection as our allowing the mind, body, spirit complex to harmoniously shift to a higher expression of itself rather than give into the urge to separate as death. The living example of the universal Christ demonstrated that, through the conscious use of choice and free will, man in his totality is greater than the fragments of his fear or perceived limitations. Our migration into complete resonance with this new body of information, Resurrection followed by Ascension, is the goal of The Shift."

"The human aspect of The Shift may be consciously facilitated, even accelerated, through the use of choice, free will and emotion associated with the ancient wisdom of the human mind, body, spirit relationship. This is the purpose of The Shift, the ultimate balance and healing of Earth and all life forms that are capable of sustaining the energy of that healing. This is the Shift to a new way of expression for the human form, through the lens of higher frequency; a Christed energy. This is Awakening to Zero Point: The Collective Initiation."

Braden claims the ancients knew that an environment of higher frequencies and lowered magnetics enhances the possibility of ascension and they therefore simulated these conditions in many of the ancient temples for initiates. What Braden emphasizes is that in our times we all are initiates and that a global initiation is taking place. As true initiates, we all have achieved a certain mastery to be here. Our task, however, "must be achieved, using the tools of choice and free will applied to the processes of life."

"Earth will no longer support inharmonic patterns of fear, hate, the polarity of judgment, or the belief systems of an obsolete paradigm. Earth will support one, highly evolved body of information, that may be thought of as the Christed frequencies. This was the gift of Christ, to anchor the information of this consciousness, and all of its possibilities, firmly into the conscious matrix of humankind, through the expression of life in our presence."

"Through his life and Resurrection, Christ's experience was a metaphor for our lives. Through his execution, he modeled for all of humanity a process that each will go through individually, as well as collectively. In the closing years of this cycle, every life form existing upon the Earth will have the opportunity to experience the dimensional translation as Earth shift's from a third to a fourth density experience; a Zero Point awareness and the choice of Resurrection over death."

Many people today report they have always felt they were to accomplish something of special significance in their life. "Some describe this feeling as a sense that they have been in training all of their lives, preparing for 'something' really big." According to Braden, becoming Christed is it; it is this we all are meant to accomplish. Braden describes our "global initiation" as being a "global Christing" and that the challenges of our daily lives provide all of the opportunities of this initiation into our Christing.

"One of the greatest, and possibly least understood, messages that Christ Jesus anchored by living it in our presence, was that of demonstrating love through compassionate allowing: loving others enough to allow the latitude of their experience. To the degree that any aspect of another's experience is judged, to that degree do we remain in the polarity of separation and the charge of that judgment."

"The keys to Compassion, then, lie in our ability to embrace all experience as part of the One without judgment. It is not an invitation to callousness, void of feeling and emotion. Quite the opposite, it is through the very act of allowing ourselves feeling that we are guided toward those portions of ourselves seeking the greatest healing. Feelings and emotions are our tools from which to access the reasons underlying the intensity of our emotion"

Braden asserts that day to day life is our initiation. "From my perspective, we are capable of only spiritual activity. Life is a spiritual endeavor. As varied and diverse as each path may seem, without exception, I believe that each life, every death, all of the hurt, all of the joy and every experience in between [are spiritual events]." And within our daily lives, our relationships are most important. in our journey of initiation.

"Our relationships are not separate from our spiritual evolution. Our relationships are our spiritual evolution. Your relationships have become your temples! These temples are your stepping stones to the highest possible levels of human mastery. You are an initiate of the highest order, immersed in a world of logic and emotion to know yourself in all ways."

In his second book, Walking Between the Worlds: The Science of Compassion, he describes the "Seven Mirrors of Relationship" - fascinating information he gleaned from several ancient texts. Used by therapists and educators around the world, the book shows how we are to utilize negative experiences and emotions as our allies in discovering and releasing underlying fear-based beliefs. Each of the seven mirrors is based on the premise that we draw to us what is inside. "Our world is a mirror of processes from within." Each of the Seven Mirrors is described briefly in the sidebar.

With the constant external mirroring of our internal workings, we have the opportunity to shift what is inside and better create what we desire on the "outside". And Braden emphasizes the word constant. Braden asserts that in understanding our thoughts-feelings-emotions as cause and the world "around" us as effect, we must utilize negative experiences and emotions as our allies, as opportunities to release any underlying fear-based beliefs. We thus come into resonance with compassion and our creative potential as spiritual beings.

According to Braden, we all are here to embody, in our bodies and lives, the highest knowing available to us by masterfully aligning our lower emotions with our higher thoughts. Integration occurs in our hearts. Braden distinguishes lower emotions from heart feelings in that the latter reflect integration of lower emotions with higher consciousness. Once done, we truly are fearless and our essence shines through, which is unconditional love, joy and compassion. And Braden gives a whole technology (including the Seven Mirrors) to do this.

What is particularly exciting about Braden's work evolves from the last two of the four key tenets gleaned from the ancient texts.

3) Through our lifetimes, in the presence of one another, we remember an ancient science that gracefully carries us through the challenges of life - the science of compassion.

4) We have today, and have always had, direct access to the creative forces of our bodies and our outer world, through an almost lost technology called prayer.

The fact that we draw to us what is within our consciousness (as discussed in the Seven Mirrors) suggests we are very powerful beings indeed, and that we have a profound effect on each other and the world. Braden claims 50% of the Essene prophesies that were removed from what later became the Western Bible were prophesies of hope and joy during our time in history; "another path of unprecedented peace and cooperation." This positive creation comes from within, from each of us emanating high heart feelings.

"Quantum physicists have openly discussed that at any given moment in our history - even this moment - there are simultaneous possibilities playing out. Parallel possibilities exist in the same time and space. And scientists say we literally tune into specific possibilities without even knowing it through the choices that we make - in each moment, in each day."

From reading the ancients texts, Braden realized there is a certain kind of prayer that is very effective in realizing outcomes. To get clarity on this most promising prospect, he decided to venture into Tibet. Since Tibet was encroached upon in recent history, he reasoned that any remaining documents would be the least distorted.

Thus, in April of last year, Braden and 21 others went on a 22-day journey through Tibet to 13 monasteries and two nunneries and had "a series of beautiful, synchronistic, heartfelt experiences. We found in libraries there, Buddhist and pre-Christian history documenting this mode of prayer. We also were invited to participate with the monks and nuns as they embraced this mode of prayer." After exploring, reading, asking questions and deciphering much interpretation, Braden understood the key to this prayer which the monks and nuns use to heal people.

"It is based on emotion. Science documented in 1985 and '86 the relationship between emotion and the DNA of our bodies. While it is important to change our thoughts, thinking is simply incomplete until the component of emotion has been added. In our workshop we show a video from a hospital in Beijing, China where this prayer heals cancerous tumors inside a woman's body. On the video, you see a real-time ultrasound image of the cancerous tumor dissolving in less than three minutes. The woman is fully awake and fully conscious."

According to Braden, when thoughts, feelings and emotions are in complete harmony, we directly access the creative healing forces. What he emphasizes is that rather than praying for something, we must pray with our thoughts focused on the feeling of the positive outcome already present. This mode of prayer is more like a celebration of something, especially peace and harmony. In this way thoughts can easily be in complete resonance with feelings and emotions, at their highest. "Quantum physicists would say that rather than a 'healing' taking place, what happened with the woman in the video was that a new outcome was chosen."

Last year, Braden teamed up with others, most notably James Twyman, singer song-writer, author of Emissary of Light and international peace troubadour who sings 12 prayers of peace from the 12 major religions to leaders around the world. Together they have performed peace concerts, some of which were broadcast over the internet in real-time and involved countless people from over 80 countries. "In Japan during The Great Experiment we did in April last year, there were two and three-hundred people gathered around a single monitor in some places."

"I can't prove that our celebrations of peace caused certain things to happen but I can tell you that during those broadcasts, unprecedented peace agreements were made in the parts of the world on which we were focused. There are studies showing the effect of prayer on crime rates.* Global prayer is an opportunity to choose, and bring into focus peace and life. In doing so, we release the focus of catastrophic destruction, loss of life and warfare. In November during one of our Internet prayer broadcasts, Clinton called back fighter planes headed for Iraq. War can't exist when millions are focused on peace."

"We don't pray for certain things to happen for a leader or country, we simply emanate and celebrate peace. Peace is a state of being that allows for the greatest expressions of compassion, love, creativity and life. It is within the presence of peace that we have the opportunity to realize our greatest possibilities. Peace is an awareness, a consciousness, rather than something we do. It's something we become."

With lowered magnetics and elevated frequencies of the Earth, these are the times, Braden asserts, when our thoughts and emotions manifest with a short enough lag time to witness and understand ourselves as cause. Awareness of our current conditions by the ancients may be the basis of both the apocalyptic and utopian prophecies. In any case, according to Braden's work, these are very important times to come into resonance with peace. "Our world is giving birth to a new Earth, Land masses, weather patterns, ice caps and magnetic shifts bear witness to the changes. If our outer world does, in fact, mirror our inner awareness, then we have the evidence of a new consciousness. We are both pioneers and midwives. Together we are birthing a new era of unity and global cooperation, unprecedented in recorded history. The labor has already begun as we live the days of prophecy."

Braden's passion about his work with prayer can be understood in terms of his life-long attempt to integrate his feeling, experiential world with the scientific. "Prayer in it's pure form transcends religion, it transcends mysticism and transcends science as we know it today. Maybe prayer is the best of what the three have to offer. It is science, religion and mysticism married together into a technology that we have yet to name. Prayer is an inner technology."

Thus Braden has developed an extensive inner technology of compassion (see his first two books!) and now, with the help of others and ancient materials, he offers an inner technology of prayer. At minimum, the two offer tremendous opportunity to enhance our personal relationships and our lives. Ultimately, they prepare us for what he calls "The Shift of the Ages" and the realization of a new, loving and cooperative reality ancients long ago predicted. Thank you Gregg Braden!

http://spiritinthesmokies.com/interviews/gregb.html

© 1999 Spirit in the Smokies

---

Love,
Greg

ROTFLMAO

Greg,

You being so adament about facts and source, too?

First, his starting facts are fiction.
The texts of the books of the bible were always in the hands (control) of some tribe or branch of the tribes of Israel. They were very dedicated in the safety and care of those texts. (As much as any monk or china man or Indian every to walk the planet)

The King James Bible was created because King James was a very devoted person with a high standards and honor and other such values of the culture of the time. He also had a very strong faith in the belief of God. His efforts were far from shabby. He insisted that the best translators and the most socialistic people on the face of the earth work on the project.
He fired those that couldn't meet the requirements.

The text used was straight from the Hebrew and Arabic texts, which came from the people of the tribes of Israel. No Roman Empire had any say in the Bible of King James.

Second, It amuses this Capricorn to listen to a Cancer trying to describe what a Capricorn is born with, as he tries to overcome his emotional out of balance world with the sciences.

That's what Capricorns are all about. We have the same intense emotions and feelings, we study the sciences just like he described, even more so, but we of all the signs can truly utilize prayer as we know how to pray, and we know that it must be in sync with God's will or it's crap in the air.

As for me, I am the ultimate Capricorn. I am a Son of God. I just naturally know stuff.

Third, the Dead Sea scrolls have barely been scrutinized. The have been under the control of less that experts and used as some Ego trip. Only recently have some had access to a few of the documents. There are many waiting and arguing over these as Lucifer ROTFLHAO, too. Lucifer and I often LOL with one another as that Angel does have one of the most advanced sense of humors in all of creation. Just like Braden only needs to mess with the facts, so is it with Lucifer. That Angel's job has become way too easy.

For me to rebuttal the subtle twists and turns of those that insist on making up there own history and trying with all their being to reinvent God's will is pretty futile at this point in time. Many things he said are very close and very true in the way they work, but his conclusions are strictly earth bound and deny the existence of God.
Don't get me wrong. I am not here to save or convert anyone. I don't care what happens to your soul. That's your problem. But such a hilarious matter of fact story out of mankind's tragedy presented as a serious documentary. I wonder what writers call that plot?

Let the word druids speak ..
Gregg Braden

A Bad Green Egg
Brag (of) Garden
Drag Gener(ation) (into) Dar(k) Den
(de)Grades Dar
Dar Bend Green Egg (to) Red Drab

Once again, if we are God, nothing matters.
Show me the door to heaven. You can't.
Show me the purpose of these higher vibrations. You can't.
Show me truth in what is false. You can't.
But to insult my essence that says I don't exist as I am. HO HO HO.
There is no final frontier.
There is only free will choice and as one evolves the merge is with the will of God.
If one believes that mankind is god, to merge with such mendicancy would be insane.
But to merge with a divine entity, at the conclusion of one torments churnings, are perfect logic and emotions and sprite.

Away in the manger,
No crib for a bed,
The little lord Jesus,
Lay down his sweet head ... Jesus is God.

Hey Lucifer! Tell me another story. That was really funny.

Heh, heh, well proxy none of the "facts" that you just presented were attributed either ... you just told us what they were!

That's not surprising in religious discussions, since much of what we belive about religion is taken on faith rather than "proof" ... this is the best possible reason for religious tolerance. No matter how absolutely sure of the truth you are in your own mind, someone else equally devout and sincere is absolutely sure that something else is the truth.

In reply to:

---

For me to rebuttal the subtle twists and turns of those that insist on making up there own history and trying with all their being to reinvent God's will is pretty futile at this point in time.

---

Proz, I don't want anyone "telling" me what God's will is, do you?

Tolerance, my friend. You may see things a different way entirely, and it's wonderful for you to share YOUR perspective ... but it's not wonderful to belittle someone else's in the process. We agreed a LONG time ago that religious arguments and "proselytizing" for any one religion were not suitable for our forum.

I certainly didn't post Braden's article on Christmas day in order to provoke religious debate I posted it because it is one vision of peace and unity to share with folks that special day. It was an offering, not a challenge.

Hope you had a Merry Christmas!

Love,
Greg

Dear Greg,

Just found this Christmas present thread of yours--thank you for posting this. It does seem like the messages in it are being spoken more and more, like stronger and stronger signals through many sources far and wide.

Proxy's strong adverse reaction surprised me because the article was really resonating with me. So it was very interesting to hear his perspective as a counterbalance. He reminded me of how many of my older views are being replaced--rather, I don't think of the older teachings and values as really being replaced but enhanced, explained, expanded, and evolving.

So what I am reading in the discussion so far is Proxy warning us that a lot of the "New Age" teachings are like the devil in disguise, and undermining the will of God? The religion in which I was raised would certainly say so. However, so far I have really never heard anything "New Age" that contradicted the essential teachings of the old religion or especially of the teachings of Christ.

The will of God, who gave us each our own free will--we could really spin and spin on that one. Is God's will: Do My Will, Or Else? Is our free will: My free will must freely match God's, or else. ???? Doesn't fear of retribution negate the concept of free will?

So back to the article on Braden. Would the woman's tumor shrinking in plain view on the ultrasound monitor at the Beijing hospital, presumably in view of witnesses including medical staff, be considered documentary proof of the power of the prayer method which combined body/mind/spirit/emotion/thought/God energy?

It seems King James was a devout man, but from what I read here I think Braden is no less a devout person who is sincerely seeking God's will.

Some of the things that never made sense to me were such as God speaking through the Bible and then just leaving us to sink or swim after that. I always thought God never came back for visits after Jesus was here, just watched silently from "above," but now I think God has been speaking with us all along, whenever we wish, and is still speaking to us and wants us to learn to live more fully and lovingly and peacefully etc. etc. and that is God's will. I don't think God wants to FORCE us to do anything (because that's just not Love) but would rather we choose freely to follow the way of Truth and Light and Love.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if this message is true, that it can transcend all of the different religions and unite people for a change for a better world?

Love,

Well if we are to straddle a fence to keep the Peace, lets not use chain link or barbed wire, eh?
How about a nice log fence?

I don't care for King James myself, as I suspect his motives in his editing.

But my own religion...the same Linda was Baptized into was founded purely so that Henry the 8th could get a divorce...so there's good and bad in anything. Once again.

But the message of Love and Forgiveness and Compassion is universal...and transcends all religions...all belief systems.

Also,there is a huge difference between passionate prayer and prayer by rote.
I have felt it.

Can you all FEEL the higher frequencies and lower magnetic field?...all part of the world feeling like it is going faster and faster.....

Thankyou Greg....I'm glad I found my way here. I needed to read this.

Dani

Hi Donna, Greg and All...

Donna, you articulated very well the thoughts swimming around in my mind, as usual!

Thank you for that fascinating article, Greg

I've always thought that it would be a scientist/philosopher who may one day stumble upon the truth.
Amazing what may one day be discovered by joining geologists and physicists together towards this type of theory.....all matter and non-matter united as one mystical/realistic force.

To think of neutrinos, for instance....a partner-particle of the electron that has no charge, no mass, so therefore is exceedingly difficult to detect...
a force so miniscule, yet so powerful that each and every second our bodies are riddled with neutrinos....the journey of the neutrino from the sun, through us and the Earth in seconds. In fact, I read that if the entire solar system were filled with solid lead, that neutrinos would even be able to penetrate that.

How are all of these particles and matter...charged and uncharged affecting our lives every day, swimming and dancing about and through us?
Seems we are all ONE in the Great Sea.

Lisa

Thanks Lisa,

Yes, there are so many ways of understanding our unity with all life and spirit ... and the emerging understandings of physical sciences are among the most exciting to me. Not because they are any "truer" than the more traditional religious and mythological ways of grasping this awareness, but because it is a language that many in the modern world have come to "trust" more than the languages of myth and scripture ... and that allows our "rational" culture to begin embracing truths that have long been dismissed as irrational or superstitious.

The other great thing this approach does is to break down the "either-or" mentality that has help to keep us boxed in and limited for so long. We have learned to think in terms of separation rather than unity, in ideas as well as human beings, and it is this tendency to passionately defend "my ideas" against "your ideas" that keeps us from uniting in a common understanding (to say nothing of uniting in concrete terms to work out our political and economic differences and make the Earth a happy and habitable place for all juman beings! )

When we begin to understand that science and religion may be saying very much the same things using different terms, it becomes possible for us to conceive that the other differences that keep us separated and at odds with our fellow humans -- race, religion, politics, economy and so on -- might also be less real than we are accustomed to thinking of them. As we used to say back in the sixties, "tear down the walls!"

Peace on Earth, good will to ALL.

Love,
Greg

Hello Free Basers,

Never under estimate the power of denial.

Let's look at the world from some simple views to regain our bearings as I think you guys are hooked on the fluffy lets all get along theory because it makes you feel better, needed and more important than you are.

1. Science - Using science to determine what we are made of, how we work, and how the physical world fits together is a pretty easy task. We almost needed to be born with that capacity otherwise our species would not have developed for long.

2. Religion - There is no need for religion. Religion is really only another form of politics for the down trodden and mediocre of the wheelers and dealers of the planet. I. G. If you can't beat 'em, make up your own communes comfort center.

3. The Universe - It would be great to know what's out there and we have knowledge of the similar things that we find on earth but over all we don't know much. For example the neutrino theory. A big cave under ground filled with pure water attached to sensors has been waiting for one tiny neutrino to pass through the earth and strike the water and decay. Like anti-matter. A little light to say YES, we now know the Universe will decay. But it hasn't happened yet. But when it does, you may overcome some denial and say, ok, so there is an end to the Universe as well as earth. No big thing in the here and now.

4. We are alone. SETA has been listing to thousands of signals for years. Nothing has been received that would indicate intelligent life. When it does happen it will be no more than a jolt of our consciousness for a small historic event. Nothing will drastically change on earth except for the reaction of the emotional reinforcement of the downtrodden and mediocre to build a stronger case for a new religion(s). I. G. Let all gets along even more because we have bigger problems now.

5. Reality - Where ever you go, there you are. Weather or not you believe in reincarnation of the soul, it has no bearing on the truth of the here and now. If our soul is to grow and learn it would need to experience all that is. Not just the good, easy, and balance. I thing those that say things about balance are looking for excuses not to live. I think they are denying their real self's, their real desires, and real values out of fear of retaliation from their commune's political system. The greatest of those are being without; lose of freedom and death or punishment. Look deep inside and ask yourself what you really desire. To be rich, famous, have lots of sex, build big cities, explore the unknown, control people, to be cared for, to care for others, on and on. When you figure out this truth within you then you might ask yourself some questions. Like why aren't you doing that? What is preventing you from doing that? I think you will discover that it is because you are afraid. Afraid of three things. Of death (including punishment, loss of freedom, restriction.), Guilt (Including laws, compassion, charity, God, affects on nature.), and number three, afraid of your own free will power, for if exposed you would be one of the leaders, wheelers and dealers in theory, although you (know) that you had better have a very good weapon to last for very long (So we come back to death and punishment.)

6. Love or Tolerance? - Everything reduces down to the relationship between two. One has wants and needs from the other and visa versa. There is no need for love in a Karma (Action and reaction) world. But tolerance is beneficial. As we all make our ends meet by negotiating with someone else. As groups form, 2 against one, three against one, a commune against one, we can see how the tolerance level is enacted and enforced.
There is no right or wrong in acts in the Karma system. For example, here on the west coast where the justice system is overloaded and the jails are full, police are focused on the commune's hot sports, like the drug war, the sexual predators, the mass killer, or the boys that burn cats. But the common tolerance level grows for car thief's, house break ins, identity thief, business fraud and bad corporations dealings as society needs these things (in perception) to maintain the status quo of economic growth for their well being.
So the average downtrodden person without good weapons is being robbed, sued, taxed, and being taken by those around them. And this will continue until that individual fights back. But, the more lope sided the relationship the less likely there will be of any sustained results. What is love? Is it really something special shaped like a heart, colored red and has a big smile on it? Or is it nothing more than something nature has developed within us as a state of security, like the opposite of adrenaline. In a relationship between two, love is really trust. And trust is the set of agreements formed in the relationship. The set of agreements are perceived to be honest or true. So love is truth from being honest. Now when it is discovered that the relationship agreements were not honest then the truth is compromised and there is consequences. Over time a commune will be discovered to be dishonest and the truth of the relationship with the individual is broken. Over time pools of populations form of these non-commune members and they feel alone because they are not getting their needs, desires, and comfort (love) quotas. So they begin forming new communes. Lets look at to extremes. The founding colonies of the USA. They knew they were alone in a new world. They would stave, be killed by natives or animals or disasters. They knew they would get sick. And they knew they were not getting their free will desires met. The same thing happened in Germany as the Third Rieght formed. What is the difference between them? Nothing. One group formed to conquer a new world of nature while the other formed to conquer other groups. Under Karma neither was right or wrong. A third group called England was a commune that believed in guilt and therefore was embarrassed out of India. They perceived their own actions as wrong. The German commune members perceived their actions as a means to exploits their free will choice. Only when other communes fought back did they fall and even afterwards they felt more sorry for themselves than guilty of wrongdoing.
When the US dropped an Atomic bomb on Japan, the event was a means to shorten the war, but the truth was the general and scientists wanted to see it go off. And they were not feeling guilty but were hoping they would get to blow up Russia and China.
So love and tolerance are really perceived truth formed by a perceived honest set of agreements.
7. GOD - Theoretically there cannot be a God. There is nothing to begin the foundation of proof. There is nowhere for God to exist or our soul to exist. Theoretically we have proved the world and all the planets will end and the Universe will decay and the world of nature is in constant change and dominating species rule for a time and then end.
Theatrically there is no right or wrong and all morals are part of a group of like thinking.
Since God did not exist we invented God.

8. Consciousness, Intuition, Superman - Most of us has experienced the mild effect of ESP making a connection with another. But what is this power? Is it magical waves of a new Star Trek Enterprise enhancement from a world beyond ours from far, far away, long, long ago? Or is it the natural development of reading others as to where we may find our comfort commune members? Is it nothing more than the calculations of our brains expressing our deep desires when encountering a probable model fit? All in all, we could theorize that our consciousness is God. It makes rational and logical since. But when taken into context with the above, it leaves me cold and even more alone than ever, as I am nothing more than a biological event. I have no soul and I will not live forever. And if I were one of the downtrodden and weak, not being able to fulfill my desires through fear then it puts me in a very strange place. A constant struggle within to get my desires fulfilled and facing death. There are many like this. Maybe even you. So we are left with two roads to travel. Find a higher meaning to life beyond our consciousness. I. E Find God. Or forever struggle with fear (on different levels) until we use our free will to change our lives. As you can see, both have the extremes sides. Finding God in order to cover your fear is death and expressing your free will in an extreme anti-commune manner is death. One might say those with extreme desires will die. But only those with extreme expression will change the world.

While I didnt have time to read all the responses to Gregs post about Braden..I just wanted to make a couple of comments about Bradens work.
Please, dont anyone take the following as me dissing Braden, as I truly felt his spiritualness in the discussion, and his love and concern for Oneness.
I recently had the chance to hear him in an interview, and his knowledge of prophecy (I mean the comparative kind) was actually not great. In fact, when the interviewer tried to steer him in that direction, he more or less avoided the issues. I noticed in this first post, he seems to have studied a great deal of a mixture of information available to us, which one should. Basically he's similiar to the Linda Goodmans and the Ickes of the world.
However, in all of these cases, not one person has perfect information. They have taken a blend of what they've learned, and formed their own doctrines. (probably as most of us do in the end)

As I said, his knowledge of prophecy was low. He can tell us the bible was altered, (of course in many areas it was, and perhaps the word "mistranslated" is best used in other areas). But it was obvious to me, hes taking the typical "new agers" approach in assuming all will be well with the world in the end, which it may..but so many dont understand whats in the middle of that end, and in some instances, they still wont "see" even when we are in the middle of WW3. (and any other applicable worldly catastrophe which may account for the loss of at least two thirds of humanity).
Well we know where assuming gets us.

Having said that, on a recent post on another site, the postee typed out something from the Zero Point book not mentioned here...but it was worded on the other site it goes along with the 13,000 year mark.(ie:half an age, or era) Unless that person typed the info out wrong..Bradens explaination of the precession of the equinoxes wasnt "exactly" right.
It was also obvious in the interview, his knowledge of astrology was fair to none..but he admits to that.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out, that even in the most spiritual of peoples books,etc..we need to discern and break down the information the author presents..especially in this day and age, and especially when speaking about ancient knowledge,etc. Lest not forget, the ancients did not separate astrology from astronomy..it was ONE science. I only use that as one example.

Thanks for the post Greg, as his work in general does have the compassionate spirit and message this world needs, and in the end..its the MESSAGE that counts as well as the TRUTH. And God always knows whats truly in our hearts. (whether it be to help others learn, or to make money on new age info which SO many are up to lately) Braden certainly seems one of the ones who dont, thankfully, fall into that category.
And I gotta say..the man IS a hot babe!!! lol

Hi Proz,

In reply to:

---

Let's look at the world from some simple views to regain our bearings as I think you guys are hooked on the fluffy lets all get along theory because it makes you feel better, needed and more important than you are.

---

You know Proz, I think you missed the idea somewhere along the line that Linda Goodman's ideas - and this website - are about the "fluffy let's get along theory." If that's such a cop out and denial to you I am truly sad for that, my friend, but I'm not into debating with you about your psychoanalysis of us poor deluded souls who believe in peace and love and cooperation and compassion and all that "fluffy" stuff. I love you and wish you peace anyway.

I'm truly sorry that you see the "natural" world as such an inhospitable place, so ruled by blind mechanical forces, social compulsion and survival of the fittest. Surely those elements exist, but just a surely there is true love and compassion and generosity and bravery and benevolence ... and it is our choice which of the two we choose to invest with the reality of our belief. The view that the world is an inherently evil, meaningless or "sinful" place from which the only respite lies in renouncing the world and surrender to an ethereal spirit that is decidedly "other than" us and the world that can only be known through blind faith in "authority," be it scriptural or priestly or kingly or whatever, is certainly not a new one: it's been the major thought form on this planet for thousands of years. That doesn't make it true.

It's also been the underlying rationalization for man's inhumanity to man since before memory. If the natural world is so blindly mechanical and driven by survival of the fittest, then dominating and brutalizing our fellow humans is no more than doing what comes naturally, hmmm? Then it's only smart to use our wits and guile and muscles to get over on the poor meek schmucks who believe in compassion and justice and goodness, and a divine spirit that is not divorced from our fellow humans but is indwelling in each of us and the world.

The problem with "debate" about such issues is that debate begins with the presumption that one side is right and the other is wrong, and thus concedes victory to the belief in separation and duality before the discussion even commences! It ignores the recognition of divine paradox as expressed not only by the great religious prophets and spiritual teachers throughout history, but also by modern physicists like Neils Bohr in his declaration that "the opposite of a trivial truth is a falsehood, while the opposite of a profound Truth is also a Truth."

The ethic of competitive debate, of the "if I'm right then you're wrong" view of life, is "either-or" rather than "both-and." Two profoundly different apprehensions of reality. But "either-or" leads inevitably to rich and poor, dominance and submission, strong and weak, the haves and the have-nots. The ruling empire and the slave colonies.

Only "both-and" allows for compassion, equality, brotherly love, sharing the world.

Nobody's view of reality or spirit or religion is "the" Truth. Not your view or mine, not Christian dogma or Hindu dogma, not the Bible or the Koran or the Upanishads or the Tao Te Ching; not astrology or new age thought or quantum physics. All of these views, all of these paths, all of these ideas contain wisdom that can point to the truth within us. None of them ARE the truth. They are all words, every one, and words are tiny fragment of infinite reality. To imagine that the tiny part can "contain" the whole -- that words can BE Truth -- is really foolish. No words are Truth.

Truth - reality - is what we ordain from our higher s-elves and express into the world, because we DO create our own reality. That is our nature. If you want to phrase that in religious terms it is as simple as the recognition that God created us in God's image ... God the creator created us creators ...

My reality is that love will triumph over fear, that compassion will triumph over competition and dominance here on earth ... that the meek shall inherit the earth, if you will. If you want to see that as a psychological problem then of course you are perfectly entitled to hold that view ... but I won't strengthen it by debating it with you. That's a waste of energy that is better spent spreading love and compassion.

In my own view, of course ... and the view of a lot of other folks who see the direction of evolution as a process of inviting the Divine INTO the physical world ... of spiritualizing the physical, if you will, rather than rejecting it.

As the man sang, I hope one day you'll join us, and the world will live as one.

Love,
Greg

Aries missed your post while I was replying to Darwin. Thanks for your thoughtfulness and insight.

For the record, I too come short of agreeing with Braden on a number of his points ... and I also have noticed some areas where he speaks with more authority than his research seems to justify. (And who among us doesn't suffer from these shortcomings on occasion? ) But I do think his point of view is "on the right track" in a number of important ways, and that his message pointing toward a realization that science and spirituality are not ultimately at odds with each other is an important one worth sharing ... as is his ultimate optimism for humanity.

Also, to get my usual plug for free will in , when you say

In reply to:

---

But it was obvious to me, hes taking the typical "new agers" approach in assuming all will be well with the world in the end, which it may..but so many dont understand whats in the middle of that end ...

Well we know where assuming gets us.

---

you make a good point. We can't "assume" anything. But that also includes the assumption that we WILL go through unspeakable catastrophes and world war conflagrations "in the middle of that end," doesn't it? And we know where assuming gets us ...

Perhaps it IS the case that things will get much, much worse before the dawning of the new age of spirit that we envison ... but perhaps that is not the case, also. Perhaps the terrible tribulations described in the prophecies are not awful things to come, but are in fact the awfiul things going on in the world right now ... and that the worst is behind us, or nearly so. I don't presume to know that is the case, but I also think that to think we "know" that things will get much darker and more destructive is an equally dangerous "assumption." If it happens that way, then so be it ... but it makes sense to me to put our utmost energy into spreading light and love and hoping for the best ... or even expecting a miracle ... and then accepting whatever happens with the grateful understanding that it's a necessary step from here to there. We just don't know what's necessary until it happens!

Love,
Greg

keep rockin' on, Mr. Hurdy Gurdy-man

Except for this article, I am not familiar with Braden's philosophies...so I don't know how credible his theories are or not...but just like others said...there was a resonation that I felt reading his theories. This is something that I have been pondering on for quite a while; the existance of the energy force of life and creation stirring within every molecule.
This was written while inspired reading Carl Sagan's "Cosmos":

Some believe that the Sun is a metaphor for God,
but I believe that the Sun is God.
All of the energy that eminates from the stars stir the infinate molecules of the universe, creating existential realities that are moved and stirred by the solar breath of God.

That's just my own belief...taken from my own reality, experiences and perspective. Just a theory in progress...because theories are always in progress after all.

Recently inspired by Chahldean's Aphorism thread, I did a search and found these on the subject of Science and Religion....

Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind. ~Albert Einstein

It has become apallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. ~Albert Einstein

It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him. ~Arthur C. Clarke

and I especially like this one :

Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings. ~Unknown

And these are for proxy

The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. ~Niels Bahr

and thought you may like this one, Darwin :

Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure, temperature, volume, humidity, and other variables,
the organism will do as it damn well pleases. ~Unknown

~ Lisa

Greetings

I want to add that I believe we are past awakening to zero point and are now on to walking between two worlds. This Christmas was indeed the birth of the new unity as the extremes of polarity continue to erupt for release. Christ Conciousness abounds and will be abounding much further. Not the church doctrines, but the Love and Compassion the lesson was.

One of the most exciting things I have found in these deminisional shifts is that what Linda Goodman always said. Expect A Miracle!

In that thread on the real me, the poem by Chapra, well that is the jest.

We can now unite ourselves of all those misplaced aspects and parrallel realities and it is reflected in the earth.

No longer do we have to expect miracles, Now we have the vibrational energy to create miracles ourselves.

And So It Is.
You are never, and never have been alone.
All Potential Now exists for your taking in.

Greetings

And I have one more for the scientist out there.

If this seems flakey....LOL....just research or watch for the upcoming publications on quantum physics. That of the Quad mass, where new energy is being made. In numeralogy this is the expotential of 2 to 4. The physics of spiritual conciousness. LOL I bet that old pisces Einstein is really excited now.

And Grace and An Abundant New Year to All !!!!

Love,
Greg

Aha!!!! And Laughter Is Always the Best Medicine!!!!

Top O Da Morning*Star 2Ya Greg

Psi...&Allso 2those Who know that ChristMass & Da Easter*Re*Inn*Karnation...IS With US Every time WE Re*Awake inn Da Morning Light!.

How sweet!

Today I NEEDED to reread this... thanks for the miracle which was an answer to a prayer, Opti.

It was a joy to reopen this earlier Christmas gift from Greg, and a joy to listen to how he embraced this message, which is surely central to conscious evolution. The key to prayer, yes!

Hey Optimystic,

Thanks for bringing this post up. I didn't get a chance to read it the first time.

Woody

"Behold, I am with you always."

Thanks, Opti! Thanks, Greggles.

xxxooo

Maria

Opti Nice Find !

More from Gregg...



Self Healing DNA Discoveries



The omnipotent healing power of visualizing Heaven on Earth, and most importantly, FLOWING WITH FEELINGS of this vision being real, is explained below:


Below are three astonishing experiments with DNA which proves that DNA can heal itself according to the "feelings" of the individual as reported recently by Gregg Braden.

In his recent program entitled Healing Hearts/Healing Nations: The Science of Peace and the Power of Prayer, Gregg Braden discussed how in the past we lost huge amounts of information from ancient spiritual traditions (when the library at Alexandria burned we lost at least 532,000 documents), and that there may be information in those traditions which could help us understand some of the mysteries of science. To this end he reported on three very interesting experiments. Gregg Braden started off as a scientist and engineer,before he began pursuing these larger questions.

EXPERIMENT #1

The first experiment he reported was done by Dr.Vladimir Poponin, a quantumbiologist. In this experiment, first a container was emptied (ie a vacuum was created within it), and then the only thing left in it were photons (particles of light).

They measured the distribution (ie the location) of the photons and found they were completely random inside the container. This was the expected result. Then some DNA was placed inside the container an the distribution (location) of the photons was remeasured. This time the photons were LINED UP in an ORDERED way and aligned with the DNA.
In other words the physical DNA had an effect on the non-physical photons.

After that, the DNA was removed from the container, and the
distribution of the photons was remeasured again. The photons REMAINED ORDERED and lined up where the DNA had been. What are the light particles connected to?

Gregg Braden says we are forced to accept the possibility that some NEW field of energy, a web of energy, is there and the DNA is communicating with the photons through this energy.

EXPERIMENT #2

These were experiments done by the military. Leukocytes (white blood cells) were collected for DNA from donors and placed into chambers so they could be measure electrical changes. In this experiment, the donor was placed in one room and subjected to "emotional stimulation"
consisting of video clips, which generated different emotions in the donor. The DNA was placed in a different room in the same building. Both the donor and his DNA were monitored and as the donor exhibited emotional peaks or valleys (measured by electrical responses), the DNA exhibited the IDENTICAL RESPONSES AT THE EXACT SAME TIME. There was no lag time, no transmission time. The DNA peaks and valleys EXACTLY MATCHED the peaks and valleys of the donor in time.

The military wanted to see how far away they could separate the donor from his DNA and still get this effect. They stopped testing after they separated the DNA and the donor by 50 miles and STILL had the SAME result. No lag time; no transmission time.

The DNA and the donor had the same identical responses in time. What can this mean?

Gregg Braden says it means that living cells communicate through a previously unrecognized form of energy. This energy is not affected by time and distance. This is a non-local form of energy, an energy that already exists everywhere, all the time.

EXPERIMENT #3

The third experiment was done by theInstitute ofHeart Mathand the paper that was written about this was titled: Local and Non local
Effects of Coherent Heart Frequencies on Conformational Changes of DNA. (Disregard the title! The info is incredible.)

This is the experiment that relates directly to the anthrax
situation. In this experiment, some human placenta DNA (the most pristine form of DNA) was placed in a container from which they could measure changes in the DNA. Twenty-eight vials of DNA were given (one each) to 28 trained researchers. Each researcher had been trained how
to generate and FEEL feelings, and they each had strong emotions.

What was discovered was that the DNA CHANGED ITS SHAPE according to the feelings of the researchers: 1. When the researchers FELT gratitude, love and appreciation, the DNA responded by RELAXING and the strands unwound. The length of the DNA became longer. 2. When the researchers FELT anger, fear, frustration, or stress, the DNA responded by TIGHTENING UP. It became shorter and SWITCHED OFF many
of our DNA codes! If you've ever felt "shut down" by negative emotions, now you know why your body was equally shut down too. The shut down of the DNA codes was reversed and the codes were switched back on again when feelings of love, joy, gratitude and appreciation were felt by the researchers.

This experiment was later followed up by testing HIV positive patients. They discovered that feelings of love, gratitude and appreciation created 300,000 TIMES the RESISTANCE they had without those feelings. So here's the answer to what can help you stay well, no matter what dreadful virus or bacteria may be floating around.
Stay in feelings of joy, love, gratitude and appreciation!

These emotional changes went beyond the effects of electro-magnetics.
Individuals trained in deep love were able to change the shape of their DNA. Gregg Braden says this illustrates a new recognized form of energy that connects all of creation.

This energy appears to be a TIGHTLY WOVEN WEB that connects all matter. Essentially we're able to influence this web of creation through our VIBRATION.

SUMMARY:

What do the results of these experiments have to do with our present situation? This is the science behind how we can choose a timeline to stay safe, no matter what else is happening. As Gregg explains in The Isaiah Effect, basically time is not just linear (past, present and
future), but it also has depth. The depth of time consists of all the possible prayers and timelines that could ever be prayed or exist.Essentially, all our prayers have already been answered. We just activate the one we're living through our FEELINGS. THIS is how we create our reality - by choosing it with our feelings. Our feelings
are activating the timeline via the web of creation, which connects all of the energy and matter of the Universe.

Remember that the law of the Universe is that we attract what we focus on. If you are focused on fearing whatever may come, you are
sending a strong message to the Universe to send you whatever you fear. Instead if you can get yourself into feelings of joy, love, appreciation or gratitude, and focus on bringing more of that into your life, you are going to avoid the negative stuff automatically.

You will be choosing a different TIMELINE with your feelings.

You can prevent getting anthrax or any other flu, virus, etc, by staying in these positive feelings, which maintains an incredibly strong immune system.

So here's your protection for whatever comes: Find something to be happy about every day, and every hour if possible, moment-to-moment, even if only for a few minutes. This is the easiest and best protection you can have. If nothing else, be joyous that the criminals have "already been caught" by the Universe!

Gregg Bradens Books:

The Isaiah Effect
Awakening to the Zero Point


The Mystery of the Essenes Lost Science of a Forgotten People
Gregg Braden Newlsetters