We've had some lively and stimulating discussion on this forum, and that's great ... but one of the things that I've noticed happening is that the focus seems to have shifted a bit from World Community to World Politics Debate.

Nothing wrong with political debate, nothing at all. And certainly political issues (and differing opinions) need to be taken into account when thinking and writing about ways to make our little planet more like a peaceful community and less like a battleground of warring states!

Still, when we get fixated on debating different views of politics, religion and the World's power struggles (and I'm as guilty of getting caught up in that as anyone), the original goal of seeking World Community can easily be lost or forgotten.

I'd like to resurrect that goal, and rather than focusing on what's "wrong" with the world and the competing views of what should be done about it, focus instead on discussing and evoking the human values that will make World Community a possibility. Certainly the final solution to the worlds political and economic problems lies within our own attitudes toward one another. If we hate our neighbors, there is NO political system on earth that can bring about peace. On the other hand, if we genuinely love our neighbors and feel true compassion for all human beings, then almost ANY political solution we try can work!

It's not the system, it's not the economy, it's not who has the biggest army or the most starving people or the most advanced economy or the scariest weapons ... it's about our caring for one another, and our desire and intention to get along with one another. If that's not a priority, then nothing else matters -- it will never happen.

So with that in mind, I happened upon this quotation of Thomas Merton, the writer and Trappist Monk who died in 1968:

In reply to:

---

"The whole idea of compassion is based on a keen awareness of the interdependence of all these living beings, which are all part of one another and all involved in one another."

- Thomas Merton, from his final talk,
delivered two hours before his death on December 10, 1968

---

If we can see this human interdependence with our hearts and third eyes, not as an intellectual idea but as a directly experienced reality, then our desire is not to compete with each other but to help each other. And when that happens to enough human beings, then that is the shift in consciousness that we have all been waiting for. Then is the end of war, and the dawning of a new age in human evolution.

It's not idealistic claptrap. Compassion is real, it can be learned and practiced. It can become more important than one-upsmanship or being right. It can become the foundation for a deep inner peace that expresses outwardly as a peaceful and nurturing World Community that we all share.

Love,
Greg

I look at this world and its all so depressing. its hard to understand how anyone can see much good at all amongst everything thats bad. Compassion and sharing all the world sounds like a good idea, but im afraid that goal will never be achieved. It just isnt realistic. It's just a pretty Neptunian illusion. I often wonder if this is hell... maybe we're already there.. maybe we already lived a life somewhere else and did very bad, and now here we are in hell. I was born into this world, and all my life all ive had is stereotypes and gender roles and expectations shoved down my throat, and for this all i feel is anger. all i see is cliques and everyone trying to fit into some mold, and everyone forcing others to fit into some mold. I'm not sure how different generations feel right now, but it seems like the older generations are much happier then the younger generations. I know theres alot of hate in the younger generations towards babyboomers, alot of people in the younger generations feel like they're ruined things and made things alot harder for us. theres even a song "f*cking babyboomers".... I think to have peace and compassion, we must first stop shoving ideals and gender roles and stereotypes down peoples throats... i dont like being told who i have to be and stuff, and neither do alot of other people, and this is whats creating so much more hate.

Ah, Nightshade, don't you think us baby boomers were angry about society "shoving ideals and gender roles and stereotypes down peoples throats" and "being told who i have to be and stuff"?

Hey man, that's what it was all about! Our parents and their parents had screwed up the world and by God we weren't gonna stand still for it!

And you know what? Your kids and grandkids are gonna say the same thing about you.

Ain't life grand!

So where did we go wrong? Same place all the generations before us did ... we got suckered into being selfish. We started to value getting high more than actually working to make our visions a reality, valuing our own self-indulgence and calling it "freedom." And then one day we noticed that time was passing and we weren't "getting anywhere" with our lives, so many of us let ourselves listen to the very message you just delivered: that compassion and sharing are great ideals but not about the real world ... just pretty Neptunian illusions. The "real" world was making a buck and getting ahead ... so we traded our bell-bottoms for business suits and entered the world of commerce and credit cards and conspicuous consumption, climbing the corporate ladder while giving occasional lip-service to our old ideals.

We stopped being about changing the world and started being about "looking out for number one."

And Nightshade, that's all that's wrong with the world today, from corporate business scandals to political conspiracies, to brutal dictators and international banker scam artists manipulating the economy into nosedive, to genocide and mass murder and the obscene spectacle of children dying of starvation, while in other parts of the world folks throw away more food at every meal than some families eat in a week. What's wrong with this picture? Just business as usual, folks "looking out for number one," instead of caring and sharing.

That's it. That's the whole ball of wax. What's wrong with the world is selfishness and nothing else. Putting our own personal situations above those of others. Some more than others, of course, some with more calculation and greed and brutality, others who "mean well" but just can't be bothered.

The world right now has the physical capability to support every human being on the planet at a level of prosperity and well-being currently enjoyed only by the richest 2%. There is nothing in the "real world" - the hard physical world - preventing us from doing this. We have the know-how, we have the technology, we have the wealth ... we lack only the will. We lack only the small voice inside that says "the starving child on the other side of the planet is every bit as human and just as worthy of life as I am," and then DOES something about it.

I don't blame you for bing disgusted with the state of the world, Nightshade. But it's not the baby boomers' fault, it's not the generation before of after that's at fault. It's YOUR fault. And mine. Andall the folks around us, to the extent that all of us are motivated far more by our own personal needs and desires more than the needs of humanity. And it won't be solved by hate - not hate of any generation for any other generation, any country for any other country, any religion for any other religion, any person for any other person.

Hate and selfishness is a guarantee that things will only get worse until life on Earth, if it can even continue to exist at all, is Hell.

But you know, it is within our power to change that in the blink of an eye, simply by a change of heart, a change of mind. We can change our minds to believe that love and compassion are more important than wealth, power and possessions. And act on that belief, as we now act on our self-centered beliefs. That's all it will take.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

Love,
Greg

P.S. - Pessimists never realize that a big pile of shit is great fertilizer!

Im sure we all felt that way about having ideals shoved down our throats, but that doesnt mean i or anyone else has to accept it, or try to fit in. Just because its something every generation goes through, doesnt make it all right. Call me selfish, but i rather do what i want to do, and i refuse to change, or comprimise what i believe in. not everybody in the world is going to agree, or want all the same things. I dont ever want kids. And yet all my life i see baby dolls for little girls, i always hated those things. It's like training girls from a young age that, thats all they really have to do.. thats all thats encouraged of them. Compassion isnt the only thing the world needs. I think we need to tear down and destroy alot of "scociety crap" before we can truly have compassion from everyone to everyone. All i can say is, as long as im being fed bullsh*t all i will do is fight it, and fight it some more until its not being projected onto me. Cuz i dont want it.

More thoughts keep popping up in my head. Ok so apparently we're here because we're suppose to learn something, this is suppose to be some sort of learning experience. What we're suppose to be learning who knows. All i know is that there is no way to be sure 100% that theres anything except this life.. what if this is it? we're just beings that came into this world by a big fluke. And as long as nobody has solid evidence then i dont see why me or anyone else has to try and learn anything that some almighty being wants us to. My only goal is to have fun while im here, because if i cant even enjoy myself i might as well just kill myself right now and get it over with. If i work during the week its so i can go have fun on the weekend and blow most of what i made. Im not going to live just so i can get married, have kids and die like everyone else. I dont want any of those things. yet thats all there is... there is nothing to be learned here.. except trying to figure out ways to curb boredom. I dont even like any of the things they say is suppose to be fun.. i dont like clubs cuz all they play is gay house or hip hop.... i dont like sports.. the list of things i dont like goes on. And as pathetic as is sounds the only things to do are either get intoxicated on something, go shopping, have sex, or talk to you friends and complain about world. whoever first said "sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll" knew what they were talking about, becasue there really isnt much else. and if there is something after death and they tell me i gotta come back here cuz of bad karma, then im going to get very pissed off, and they're going to have to send me to hell or wherever else all the souls are that stood up and said "f*ck you im not going, i've had enough".. cuz whoever created life on this planet and called it a learning experience was on crack. lol I swear i would go against god himself just to not have to come back here. I probably wouldnt be able to do anything i liked in his kingdom anyway.

Hi Nightshade, I understand your not wanting to be force-fit into somebody else's idea of what you should be. I don't want that either. But may I ask you not to use this forum as a place to vent your anger? It's about learning peace, and a lot of anger being expressed makes it hard to keep that vibe, know what I mean? Thanks!

Love,
Greg

Hi Nightshade,

You sound like someone out of the 1960's. They use to call those folks anti-establishment types. I couldn't have said it better than Greg did above, "And you know what? Your kids and grandkids are gonna say the same thing about you." Hard to believe, but it is true.

Look, I am not at all trying to tell you what to do. Nor am I going to shove anything down your throat. It is your choice, and your choice alone whether you even read the rest of my post.

But I would like to share the following excerpts with you. At times I had the same line of thinking as you do, albeit at a lesser degree. When I do, I can't help but reflect on the following written by a 15 year old in a different time, in a different place. It is just something to think about.

Sabra

In reply to:

---

"It's a wonder I haven't abandoned all my ideals, they seem so absurd and impractical. Yet I cling to them because I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."

"I simply can't build up my hopes on a foundation consisting of confusion, misery, and death."

"I see the world being slowly transformed into a wilderness, I hear the approaching thunder that, one day, will destroy us too, I feel the suffering of millions. And yet, when I look up at the sky, I somehow feel that everything will change for the better, that this cruelty too shall end, that peace and tranquility will return once more."

"...It's difficult in times like these: ideals, dreams, and cherished hopes rise within us, only to be crushed by grim reality"

"In the meantime, I must hold on to my ideals. Perhaps the day will come when I'll be able to realize them!"

-- Anne Frank
Diary of a Young Girl,
entry for Shabbat, July 15, 1944, age 15

---

Anne Frank was a German-Jewish teenager who was forced to go into hiding during the Holocaust. She and her family, along with four others, spent 25 months during World War II in an annex of rooms above her father's office in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.

After being betrayed to the Nazis, Anne, her family, and the others living with them were arrested and deported to Nazi concentration camps. Nine months after she was arrested, Anne Frank died of typhus in March of 1945 at Bergen-Belsen. She was fifteen years old. Just three months later Germany surrenders and the war ends in Europe.

Hi Nightshade!

I can totally see where you are at.....and I spent a good deal of my life right where you are now....but there does come a time when getting a haze on is just as boring as not getting a haze on.

And then at that point in life...you choose...you either keep on partying until your body dies off...or you sober up and try everything sober that you used to do buzzed.

Thats the crossroads Greg mentioned....some of us boomers....(technically I am a boomer...but being born in 1960...I consider myself more of a little sister of the boomers....I never quite fit into the boomer era..nor the ME generation that followed...their generation learned how to party...we fine tuned it and developed the mass marketing...and also true marijuana manners.... )
...anyway...at the crossroads is where a lot of the boomers fell off into the very world they protested against....they bit the bait and became, in many ways...more ruthless in business and less moralistic than our parents ever thought of being.

But that same crossroads can lead you the other way too....and we face many crossroads in our lives...where we change, whether we want to or not.

Theres nothing wrong with having a good time...as long as you don't hurt anyone.....and theres nothing wrong with working hard to better your life...as long as you don't hurt anyone.

But there is something wrong with seeing only the negative and using it as a justification to say 'f*** the world....I'll do what I want'...because the very people...who benefit from that attitude are those with the agenda that has NO compassion....which was the whole point of this thread.

When we buy into selfishness...we can be assured that greedy selfish people in charge will profit from it.

Can I give you proof of life after this? Hell no...and I would not even try....why should you accept My truth? What about your own?
Your truth is what it is right now...it will change as you age....whether you think it will or not.

In order to believe in an after life...you have to find your own proof....it's not something someone can give you...you have to give it to yourself...and ones mans' truth is another mans' lies.

I have witnessed TOO many miracles to NOT believe.

You will get your own miracles when you are ready to see them.

They are already all around you...

it's just that negative information gets better press and better ratings.... (negative people like to see other people getting slammed because it makes them feel better about themselves....so nasty stuff makes the news....miracles are 'feature reports' at the end of the broadcast, you know?)

When the student is ready the teacher will appear..... which, I guess, makes Greg one of MY miracles in this life....

Remember...the optimist says the glass is half full....the pessimist says it's half empty...and the engineer says you have twice as much glass as you need......it's all how you look at it.

I have lived long enough now to know...that when I get bitchy and selfish...I step on a rake...either emotionally or physically...sometimes both ...and if you watch other people...it happens to them too.....one of the biggest steps to becoming enlightened in this world is to realize that for every action there is an equal re-action.....

And once you see the pattern in yourself...it's easy to see in others too...and sometimes... thats fun to watch...."laughing is ok...as long as you don't point "...as Mom would say.

Maybe what you are supposed to learn in this life...and also teach others, just has not come clear to you yet....

Are the answers as simple as sex, drugs, and rock and roll?...Maybe...but if they were...we'd have achieved peace by now...because while we were wasted....the fox got the henhouse...so to speak.

Nothing like a security guard who's passed out drunk, right?
Way to be safe, man....

I have had 17 years of dealing with the USA's 'Friend of the Criminal'..I mean "Court".....which is designed to assist children in split homes.

It's been a total joke...and I could go on for hours about it...in fact I used to vent about it here just like you are venting now.....(they were very patient with me...but what a drag I was! )

The thing is....I did learn from it...even tho' it was total crap...and still is......and the learning had nothing to do with my child...or the deadbeat druggy dad....or the system....

The whole pile of shit taught me more about ME than I ever could have learned from astrology ...or religion...or any good therapist....

We learn a hell of a lot more from our failures...and foul ups...than we ever do all the awards and accolades.

So it IS time for the whole world...to pull together....and demand peace...and compassion and kindness....and choose to learn from our mistakes as a world community collectively.

We need to expect nothing more...and accept nothing less...from ourselves...and our neighbors...and our country.

Idealistic Neptunian claptrap?...I don't give a shit if it is.....I might not win...but by GOD I'll go down fighting for it all the way.

And if you look at history...and the true peacmakers that have come before us...and live amongst us now...I am in damn good company.

So we start with our own backyard.....

" I discovered the secret of the sea upon meditation of a dewdrop"...Gibran.

Dani

Thanks Sabra. For all the Anne Franks of the world, past present and future, it is important that we too hold on to our ideals, dreams and cherished hopes.

Anne Frank died in a prison camp but her hopes and dreams still live - amplified in the hearts and minds of the millions of people who have read her diary and been touched by it. An extraordinary effect for a helpless teenage girl!

We never know the power of our love and faith ... a smile can travel round the world, a small act of compassion or a word of kindness can ripple outward and change the destiny of nations. The power of love - not just as sentiment and emotion, but love in action: doing for each other, helping and caring for each other, watching out for one another - is the strongest thing in the world, believe it.

We must never let ourselves be cowed into hiding our light, no matter how bleak things may seem outwardly. Expect a miracle!

Love,
Greg

Hi everyone


I understand Nightshade's anger and frustration - and I admit I have said and felt very similar things myself. Though not so much lately, and it's just occured to me why. It's compassion that keeps me from feeling quite as angry as I used to.

Starting from my early teens I often felt judged and alienated from "normal" society. I felt that acutely in highschool. My family lived in an affluent area and the majority of the students at the school were the preppy, fashion conscious, university bound children of wealthy families. Those who didn't fit that mold were cast into other highly defined groups like goths or rockers or nerds.

I really wasn't any one of those, nor were my closest friends. We just kind of hung back on the fringe, though we were probably called wanna-be-hippies (or worse) by the others. Most of us were relatvely artistic, intellegent, got decent grades and stayed out of trouble, or at least flew under the radar. I had one friend who I really looked up to, and he was what I would call a totally self-contained person. He really seemed to just do what he wanted to do, strove for goals that were meaningful to him and never seemed to be ruffled by other people's opinions of him.

On the other hand, I was often torn up by see-saw feelings of alienation vs. a desire to just fit in. Blame my chart for that - my Scorpio rising and the strong Uranus in my chart really don't give a f**k about what others think of me, but all the Libra in my chart gives me an equally strong drive towards being social and part of the group. Balancing that dichotomy within myself has actually been the major theme of the last 10 years of my life, which is about as long as I have been out of high school.

Part of that journey was very filled with anger, at what I considered the stupidity of the "blind sheep" around me, the futility of trying to change anything in the system. I remember a teacher and I once talking about my future, and being encouraged by him to study politics, international relations or law, with the goal of seeking public office. Tempting to be sure - and although I am sure this sounds conceited, I don't much doubt that I would have had a very sucessful walk down that path. But somthing guided me away from that road, and it was the overwheelming belief I had (have still I think) that one cannot effect a change from within the system, because it's the system itself that is the root our problems. I felt that if I went down that path the things that I know clearly and intuitively would be torn away from me as I worked myself into the mold of a lawyer, a politican. A liberal one to be sure, with good intentions, but bound to compromise to make everyone happy and keep myself sucessful.

Part of that intuitive feeling that said "drop out" came from observing what had happened to the real hippies befor me, the boomers that are talked about on this thread. It was obvious to me that, yes, many did "sell out", either by being nu,bed by drigs or by being numbed by material desires. So much of what society has set up for us in the last fifty years or so is a maze of illusions that we need to negotiate. If not trapped by the illusion of happiness through the materialism preached by the television gods, than it's trapped by the bliss through drugs illuision or the pious happiness of the bliss through protest approach or any of the other routes that numb your authenticity and force you to prop yourself up through an exernal stimulus. "Nurse, can you jack up my doasge of the trappings of the 21st century please, I am beginning to feel real, and it scares me...."


So I did other stuff and in doing the other stuff with my life gained a deeper insight into the real "me-of-me", the things that make Terri tick. Part of that was learning from the example of my self-contained friend, and setting my own agenda for my life, and learning to not feel torn between two worlds. Now the difference is that while he stayed (to the best of my knowledge) a very solitary person, I slowly learned that I didn't need to be a total loner to live my own path - and that's where the compassion comes in. If I need and want the freedom and space to live my life than I have to be willing to give that to others, even if their life choices aren't what I would make for myself (except in the case of criminal or violent choices - let's just make that clear!)

But for those who choose to follow the "traditional" paths, then my hat goes off to them. It's not actually easy to do that anymore, and I think that's why those "traditional" people sometimes seem so judgemental.

To give another personal example - I often feel criticized and / or mocked by family members for being a vegetarian. I used to be really bothered by that - until it ocured to me that perhapes the people who act funny about it do so because their lives bound by such a ridgid framework of normalcy that something as simple as the concept of vegetarianism is too much of a threat for them to handle. Because if eating meat is maybe not good, than what else in their lives might be "wrong"?!?! In short, I used to feel angry because I felt judged, and somewhere in me I that hit a nerve of insecurity. So is it possible that the critics themselves do so out of their own insecurites? Their own need to prop up the remnants of their life-styles that are changing, whether they like it or not?

Compassion IS the key to bridging understanding - and understanding is the key to compassion. Cool how the energy reciprocates itself like that

Love,
Terri

Wow! Dani, I crossed posts with you. Man, did you ever consider running for office?

Never mind, don't answer that!

Beautifully said with such passion - I love you!

And Terri, what a wonderful soul-searching tour through your own life's journey (so far!) through these questions and tugs of war. I think it's VERY helpful for others to hear about our own struggles with "the system" and our own evolved strategies for keeping our light alive when the winds of fear and darkness threaten to extinguish it. Thank you!

Love,
Greg

So all the deep thinkers are out tonight Nice posts Dani and Greg, I almost missed them...

Love,
Terri

PS - Can we put both of you on a ticket for the next election? Now that would be a Prez and Vice-Prez combo even I would be hard pressed to find fault with!

You are welcome Greg - thanks. I very much enjoyed reading Dani's and Terri's perspectives as well. You guys have such a spirit within each of yourselves.

Terri,
If you would have chosen the path of law, I think you would have been a very good lawyer and a successful one at that. Hey, it's never to late ya know . But instead of public office like you mentioned, how about the ACLU ?


Sabra

Well i dont do things that hurt other people. I just let them be, all i ask is that they do the same for me.

Good for you, Nightshade! Live and let live is a big step in the right direction.

Love,
Greg

Thanks Sabra

I know it's not too late for university and a law degree and all that jazz - but I think I really have moved beyond that, and my values are so different now. I would so much rather stay at home with my kids, or at least work a non-demanding job that leaves me with enough energy to be with them properly at the end of the day. f I went to school to learn a profession, I think it would compromise that too severely.

I WOULD like to start taking night classes at university though, because I would enjoy the learning, and I know I would feel proud to get that degree eventually. At least then, I will know without a doubt that my choosing to be out of that professional mainstream is 100% my choice and not me covering up fro lack of education or opportunity. But mostly, I just like learning new stuff. This summer I am hoping that we will move out of the city, and to a smaller city about an hour from here. This smaller city has an excellent university known for it's liberal arts program. I can see myself there

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Love,
Terri

Hey everybody!!!!

Terri's right...the theep dinkers are out tonight!

Terri...I did all my education backwards...not following the norm as well...and I enjoyed it that way.

I liked being the oldest one in class.....and having some life experience first, lends a different light to what they teach.

I had a Psych prof....in a very large class...who announced to the class the first day...that people who sit in the back row never get " A's " in his class.

He said they are not involved enough and sit in the back to avoid work.

When I was younger...a statement like that might have motivated me to move forward to demonstrate my sincerity...but as a adult...I just looked at him and thought..."What a Behavorist asshole!"

I already knew, you see, that I was a gunfighter or something in a past life...because I ALWAYS sit to the back...and it has nothing to do with Virgo 'shyness' (what is THAT anyway? )...it has to do with wanting to see the whole room...have my back to the wall...and knowing where the exits are.

I still, will sit back/right in a movie theatre....

So from that point on..as my hand would shoot up to ask many many many 'bug you' type questions of this guy...I always preceded the question with the statement..." I know I am in the back row and all...but ...."

or..." The back row would like to inquire...."

really pissed him off...because I shot Pavlovs dog.

"Thou shalt not press the button on command..."

68 students....the best grade in the class was MINE.

The most boring grown-ups in the world are the ones who figure they have already learned everything.....

and like I remind my girls...the world has NO shortage of stupid people...we have h-way more than we need.....

Follow your heart.

Greg...theres no way I could ever run for office I have enough skeletons in my closet to make a 40 piece swing band!

It is funny to picture tho' eh?...Proz could be our campaign manager....

Hey you wanna hear about a little miracle?

A local young lady was on the news on Christmas eve....she took all her money...about 5-grand....and opened a thrift store that runs as a non-profit organization.....clothing for the poor.

A lot of people gave her a hard time about it...and told her she wasting her time and money...but there she was on the news...all shining and excited about her new shop...with sparkles in her eyes...saying to the camera..."It will work....I knOw it will! People need this..and I can do it!" (compassion!!!!! )

Then they listed her address...I do not remember the street name...but the number to the building is 111.

Then she gave her phone number....
679-8111 !!!!!

6 + 7 + 9 = 22 8 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 11.

What do you bet that store will make it?

Now thats some GOOD karma!!!!!

Dani

Oh yeah...I can see that...I might have a trashy saloon girl dress on...but I'd be in boots with spurs...and my gun would be slung low on my right hip.... heeeheee...." Dance Cowboy!" hahahaha

Dani

BTW...so you are saying that the 'back to the wall' thing...is a fighter's posture?...Or maybe it IS a Virgo thing...?

We should do a survey..... ."How many Virgos sit in the back?"

You know, Mark does the same thing Firesong does......he knOws where I will be comfortable and where I won't.

Joanne and I butt heads on that one...she always wants to be front row center....the whole idea positively creeps me out...luckily I am the grown-up...so I win for now!...but she will sulk if people do not see her!

Dani

It is a martial posture, Dani, a way of strengthening your position in the event of unexpected attacks.

But now that you mention it, I suppose it could be a Virgo manifestation of wanting to feel in control of everything in your immediate environment!

Love,
Greg

Control freaks? Virgos???????

mm...nah.....


hahaha...well... Not so's you'd notice!

Dani

This is the perfect thread to post something sent to me recently..

Verse 311
If hurting others would bring princely riches,
The pure in heart would still refuse.

Verse 312
It is the principle of the pure in heart never to injure others,
Even when they themselves have been hatefully injured.

Verse 313
Hating others, even enemies who harmed you unprovoked,
Assures incessant sorrow.

Verse 314
If you return kindness for injuries received and forget both,
Those who harmed you will be punished by their own shame.

Verse 315
What good is a man's knowledge unless it prompts him to
Prevent the pain of others as if it were his own pain?

Verse 316
Any actions which a man knows would harm himself
He should not inflict on others.

Verse 317
The supreme principle is this: Never knowingly
Harm anyone at any time in any way

Verse 318
Why does he who knows what injury to his own life is like
Inflict injury on other living human beings?

Verse 319
If a man inflicts sorrow on another in the morning,
Sorrow will come to him unbidden in the afternoon.

Verse 320
All suffering recoils on the wrongdoer himself. Therefore, those who
Desire not to suffer refrain from causing others pain.
----------------

The Path of Non-violence (Ahimsa)
Avoidance of Injuring Others

From: The Holy Kural, an ancient Hindu scripture
written over two millenia ago by Saint Tiruvalluvar,
translated under the guidance of Gurudeva, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami:
http://www.magna.com.au/~prfbrown/kural/

Thanks Aries

What a wonderful world it would be! Or I should say will be, for it is in our evolutionary path. It's just a question of when.

(I just hope it's before the monkeys type out the complete works of Shakespeare, though. )

Here is a Buddhist prayer I posted several months ago that fits here too ...

In reply to:

---

By the power and the truth of this practice,
may all beings have happiness, and the causes of happiness.
May all be free from sorrow, and the causes of sorrow.
May all never be separated from the sacred happiness
which is sorrowless.
And may all live in equanimity,
without too much attachment and too much aversion,
And live believing in the equality of all that lives.

May all beings be filled with joy and peace.
May all beings everywhere,
The strong and the weak,
The great and the small,
The mean and the powerful,
The short and the long,
the subtle and the gross:
May all beings everywhere,
Seen and unseen,
Dwelling far off or nearby,
Being or waiting to become:
May all be filled with lasting joy.

Let no one deceive another,
Let no one anywhere despise another,
Let no one out of anger or resentment
Wish suffering on anyone at all.
Just as a mother with her own life
Protects her child, her only child, from harm,
So within myself let grow
A boundless love for all creatures.

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And on that happy note, a Happy New Year to all, the best is yet to come!

Love,
Greg

Happy New Year of Higher Love and Compassion on Earth!

First, to answer the poll about sitting in the back--a Virgo rising, I love to sit in the back row of a classroom so I can see everyone when they speak and I don't have to turn around! Somehow I don't just end up looking at the back of heads--people turn toward the center so you can really see them.

Greg, I appreciate the spirit in which you started this thread.

You said, "Nothing wrong with political debate..." I wonder if that may be the crux of the problem of miscommunications. Is debate okay? We probably all just take for granted that some political or any other debate is healthy. But debate is always about proving oneself...

Why don't we change the way we use this forum from debate to simply, like you said, an EXCHANGE of ideas, opinions, feelings. That is, people are encouraged to speak these without FEAR of being attacked as "wrong." Instead of anyone trying to prove their points, people can just take what they like and leave the rest. Rather than trying to "correct" we could just keep posting from our hearts, allow all the energy to flow and be released, and I would think that before too long the energy would be higher because people will not perceive they are being attacked.

It would take some practice to be open minded enough to simply listen to all views. Then maybe a consensus can arise which is not about who is "right" or "wrong" but rather what might "work." Easier said than done, I am sure, but certainly doable.

Nightshade, I'm glad you spoke and understand your feelings of futility about the world because I have had them also. Hang in there--you will learn that all of us, individually and collectively, DO create our reality--and we can make choices to change it. Some books that really have been helping me are "Silence of the Heart" by Paul Ferrini, "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron, and "Conversations with God" (3 volumes) by Neale Donald Walsch. I am sure there are many other good books that could give you ideas about how to live in this world. I believe we are here to be Co-Creators of the Divine Creator and that we have free will to create our experience in the physical world.

Greg's plea is for people to realize our human interdependence, our interdependence with all life and with the earth. This is because we are all One--all our souls are pieces of the one great soul we create in order to experience ourSelf. All attacks happen whenever we have the illusion of "other"--all attacks are actually attacks on the Self. This is hard to understand especially at first but with reflection it becomes clearer to see.

Sabra, that was a great idea to quote Ann Franke!!!! Such a great message to read on New Year's Day. Hello to all the rest of you and as usual it is so good to read people's thoughts here.

Love,
Piscesdreamer

In reply to:

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We should do a survey..... ."How many Virgos sit in the back?"

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lol Dani, I do . i always head for the back row/back table/whatever and I love it even more if there's a piece of mirror/glass somewhere near which can be turned just so to give me a wider field of vision.

BTW, this is a lovely thread. Great inputs from all of you. Am reading it today (the new year) and am wondering how i could've missed it earlier. Thanks guys.

I agree with your views on debates, Piscesdreamer.

In reply to:

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Then maybe a consensus can arise which is not about who is "right" or "wrong" but rather what might "work."

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Exactly! I feel no one view is complete or perfect in itself. The purpose of discussions should not be to prove one of them superior to the others, but to take the best of all and come up with something better and more perfect than all the individual views. That would be a whole lot more constructive IMHO, than a debate where people often end up feeling attacked and hence rigidly hold on to their original views. That doesn't do any good.

Ha Ha!!!

Well, I'm a Virgo, and in all honesty, I LIKE to sit in the front... But what I like even more than that, is sitting FACING the door, and usually near to the door. I'm really weird about that. Usually in my classes, I sit close to a door, whether it's in the back or it's in the front. Although, I positively refuse to sit in the waaaay back row. I feel somehow that I'm away from the action, and it keeps me more alert if I'm in the front and I have to turn around when someone asks a question. But, I ALWAYS sit close to a door. I like to be able to get out of the classroom quickly. lol. Even when I'm in the cafeteria, I like to sit so that I'm facing the door. I get to watch all the people that come in that way...

*hugs* for all!!!
Carrie

I know this guy he's a virgo... i really wonder what his acendant is cuz to me he just screams Leo... he Really likes to be in the spot-light. him and my boyfriend have a rave production company and when my boyfriend buys new awsome records he has to hide them and not tell him so his buddy wont go out and buy the same ones. The guy doesnt like to feel outdone, and i know he wouldnt want my bf to spin a better set then him. and the guy likes to brag a bit i think.

This was such a long thread, that I printed it out, so that I might read it later...(and also I seem to have better concentration when I'm holding reading material in my hand)...*sigh*...

Everyone had such meaningful things to say.....

COMPASSION???...*sigh*...

"Do unto others, as you'd have them do unto you.."

....simple as that...


Nighteshade...I'm sorry you're in such a space right now...I hope you're able to see your way out of the "muddle" that seems so real to you at this time...it doesn't sound like a very pleasant space to be in..*sigh*...I wish I were wise enough to have something profound and meaningful enough to make your thinking take a different turn (for your own peace of mind), but at this time I feel totally inadequate to offer anything that might be meaningful to you.......just try and believe that the world is really a better place than your view of it right now....granted, there's lots that's wrong, but there's lots that right too...for example all the wonderful people who are part of this cyber community - you included.....*sigh*...

Luv,
Rainbow

It was indeed a long thread but worth reading every word.

Nightshade, I sympathize with you and glad you can share your feelings with us.

Greg, I recognize the wisdom in compassion.

Rainbow, sometimes we do unto others what we want done unto us... why doesn't it always work?

If I could be president of the world, what changes would i bring? Hmmm perhaps rather than send men to die in Iraq, i'd work to bring down child pornography for ONE, #1, than housing for all, simple basic needs met. Why are there so many sleeping in the cold tonight...............

I've realized that before compassion must first come anger in front of these injustices, it's what shows us that we are not num and indifferent, after dealing with our anger, we can find in ourselves compassion, and when compassion becomes not enough it soon turns to action.

So let's be Proactive, rather than Reactive! and maybe we can cause change in our environment.

I truly believe we should focus more on Pro Activeness in every little way we can.

AH. Compassion. The deepest and most elusive Human Emotion known to man. Delving deeper than Love itself, compassion is innate in the Soul of all who enter this space; for Earth is the place of trials and tribulations, good deeds and wrong doings. Hopeful Hearts and Lost SOuls.

With compassion comes Mercy. A gift of Understanding everyone possesses, but very few activate and abide by. The allowance of Oneself to step aside the hurtful encounters of others and the situations caused by them; accepting this Human Condition as the Original Sin of being Mortal. Real eyesing the ignorance of these First Timers and forgiving them for they know not what they do.
There really IS no other way.

Acceptance and Forgiveness are the two Virtues compassion is composed of. It is not a Divine quality to have compassion. It is a quality OF the Divine, yes,but it is as basic as the need to eat, sleep, and love.


IN our journey down the Human Road, we be-come altered in our True state, jaded and tarnished by all the unjustness we perceive the World may offer. But it is the PERCEPTION that changes....for we are still chemicallymade of a TRUE state. Whole deep inside. Pure.

Our layered skin changes with our environment. Our eyes need prescriptions. Our ears hear only what we want to hear. Our mouths say what it necessary to redeem our desires. We find ourselves constantly feigning off those around us, defending the small dogmas that keep our Minds centered in what we think to be the TRUTH. The center, we think, keeps us stable and grounded. . Not real eyesing everyone does the same.

Time is the great equivocator. It takes a small innocent child, wide eyed and excited about the WOrld, with dreams and hopes abounding. And shapes it's perception of what once was Pure and Whole into a subjective take on what is right and which is wrong. This process happens to all of us and thus makes us uniform in our ignorance. And our Understanding.


Compassion, however, surfaces throughout Times in our lives, when we are heightened by our enlightment that we are all the SAME. All blindly searching this gorgeous Planet for Mystical Truths to answer our pining need to know. Whatever that knowing may be. And as for the First Timers...well, we must activate our compassion. Kill 'em with Kindness but do not allow them to wreak havoc in our Eden.

Without compassion there is no mercy. Without mercy, we are but mere animals fending for our lives. And that is NO way to Live.

"All it takes is for enough good people to DO NOTHING."
Don't DO NOTHING! But don't wreak havoc either.

Mercy mercy me......

Hi Guys

Nice thread...many good things said and shared here. I can't think of anything to add right now (not in a wordy mood today, might be the moon in Cancer ) other than... ~*One LOve*~

I'll add to the Virgo poll though. I always liked to sit in the back, both out of shyness and not wanting to be noticed or picked on by the teacher, and because I liked to watch everything going on. I like to sit in the back in theater's too.

Hi Rachel.....wanted to comment on your comment....

"Rainbow, sometimes we do unto others what we want done unto us... why doesn't it always work?"

Okay...I'm scratching my head...I'm not sure what you mean, by "Why doesn't it work?"...*sigh*...I'm not sure what is supposed to be working???? ....I look at it as an act of kindness and courtesy with no expected results....it's just something one does? *sigh* If one is treated nicely back...then cool...but I surely don't "expect" it...*sigh*....just wanted to clear that up...

Luv,
Rainbow