Read this exerpt from the Yahoo group "Cloudbuster".

Some say our 10 missing DNA strands are being reactivated now by distance via intelligent, gentle beings for our own good.

Orgone products are being used to bust the clouds. Check orgone on the web. They make a wand, even a post to put in your yard that renders chemtrails impotant! Only watch for the black copters!

CHEMTRAILS: SUPPRESSING HUMAN EVOLUTION--'If governments are not spraying out of benevolence and altruism, then they are spraying the population to protect themselves. When threatened, one attacks the source of that threat. And what are chemtrails ultimately attacking? Our cellular DNA. Therefore, there is something about our DNA that threatens the power structure. Considering chemtrails are a recent phenomenon, the threat must also be recent. If a citizen's DNA was non threatening before, but is now, then it must have fundamentally changed its structure recently. This fits the definition of 'mutation.'

Thanks for posting this Nonoche (neighbor in Tenn).

I see the chemtrails a lot these days, and notice all of the respiratory infections that come afterwards...

I'm going to have to go and check out orgone products. If I understand what you posted here correctly, there is something we can use to counter the effects?

yes ive noticed the respiratory problems of it.. my bf came down with a weird sickness... This is our theory.. the chem trails weaken your immune system gradually, you can fight it off when you're young, but when you're old and retired and taking out your pension money and not working anymore, you're weak. The government doesnt want you to take out the money, they dont want you to retire and not work and not pay income taxes... they want you to work until you're 50, then die. A lowered immune system when you're old makes you suseptable to other things. And the planes which which cast these chem trails are unmarked, which is illegal unless its military. they're unidentified military aircraft... and have you ever noticed that some of the chem trails cross?.. planes arent suppose to cross that close, thats not suppose to happen. The babyboomer generation is about to retire.. the world will be filled with many old people. And they'll all be taking out their pension money, which is taking the money away from the government.

Yes!
Definitely!

You may want to protect yourself and the device with blue or purple light. This device is said to render the effect of the contrail impotant.

I have tried several times to go to this other site http://www.orgoneproducts.com but it's constantly
busy.

Love
Nonoche

Wow Niteshade...

My husband and I have basically the same theory! I might add that, it gets people sick, so they go to their doctor to get perscription drugs which in turn weakens the immune system even more...

Looks like some folkes (always the same of course) are getting rich here! I am talking about special interest groups!
Love

Hello nonoche1981,

The government says they are spraying due to the depleation of the ozone layer. The stuff they are spraying from what I have read is Aluminum Oxide and I think it was Barium sterate? Aluminum can be used to reflect radiation back to the atmosphere; however, the Aluminum will act like house insulation once it enters the body via the respiratory system. Also, Aluminum is known to cause Alzheimer disease.

In Chiropractic college we were taught a very important fact. This fact is called Psychoneuroendoimmunolgy - meaning... psycho = mind, neuro = nervous system, endo = endocrine system, immune = immune system. These systems are interrelated. What you do to one affects the others.
For example, you can lower the immune system by thoughts(stress), spinal problems, or toxins. Stress causes you to release Cortisol and fight or flight chemicals into the body. This causes your immune system to be weakend because it effects the production of the cells that fight infection. When a persons immune system is lowered, he or she is less likely to "see" the lies and control of those who are manipulating the society. Our pyschic vision is decreased. Prescription drugs are toxic to the body too.

Woody

Edited by Veneo

Hi Woody,

I understand with what you said above and I find it very interesting. It is probably just me, but I am having trouble comprehending this:

In reply to:

---

When a persons immune system is lowered, he or she is less likely to "see" the lies and control of those who are manipulating the society.

---

I don't see the correlation. I am also curious if that is what Chiropractic college taught you. Is this a medical fact or is that your opinion? Just wondering here .

Also, does that mean if my immune system is at it's highest level, I am then able to see who is lying, manipulating and controlling me?


Sabra

Now we are even suggesting that the government is the cause of our health problems because they are going around in airplanes spraying us. Does this really sound logical or reasonable? It's my opinion that it all suggests a kind of paranoia about the government or governments in general. Our minds are such that we see what we want to see. Perception is what it is called. If a person is constantly looking for plots and conspiraces they will find them in everything. Even the most ridiculous, far-fetched things.

The suggestion that the government is trying to kill off all of us baby boomers because we are getting old and collecting pensions is just not reasonable. For one thing the government does not pay our pensions. The companies we worked for all those years pay our pensions if they have a pension plan. My husband is semi-retired from Chrysler Corporation and it is they who pay our pension. The government guarantees that pension if the company goes out of business, but they don't pay it. I don't think that the government guarantees all pensions either. In fact, it is the citizens of this country that provide the government with money by paying our taxes. Why would the government want to kill off it's tax source? The baby boomers are the majority of the population these days. The government would be killing off it largest tax source.

The human body is some what like a computer when it comes to our brain and the production of our hormones etc. What Woody says is true about stress and what effect that has on our bodies and the production of hormones. Our doctors are telling us this all the time. However, like a computer our brain's electrical charges can go haywire at any time. That is why there are so many diseases and disorders that the medical profession does not know the cause of or have a cure for. Diabetes is one of the many, many things where hormone production plays a part. I have two disorders that are the result of my body defending something that is not there in reality because my brain is giving out the wrong signals to my body. If anything is screwing up our bodies and our hormones it is the toxins the corporations are dumping into our water supply and our environment in general. Not because the government is going around in airplanes spraying "chemtrails" so that we will be unable to "see" the plots and conpiracies. Because if that is the case how come some people can "see" those plots and conspiracies while others can't? I think the answer to that is that we see what we want to see based on our perception of things and our world view.

Love Connie

Hello Everyone,

I'm glad everyone is thinking and comptemplating things.
It's a medical fact about Psychoneuroendoimmunology. Let me give you more of what is destroying our health in the name of profit and government lies. Anything that lowers the immune system will affect your psychic abilites because your system is not working at its highest potential.

Does anyone use Nutrasweet? This product (aspartame) was origianly proposed to congress as a biological weapon because of what it does to the body. Once ingested the product breaks down into several components. One is formaldeyde. This can and has caused brain tumors, lowered immune function, headaches, depression, seizures, allergies, and diabeties (to name a few). People become addicted to the product (like some other things we can think of like cigarettes) and then it becomes hard to get off of it. Vaccines contain formaldehyde and ethylene glycol also known as antifreeze. This too lowers the immune system and can cause an allergic reaction in the brain causing many condidions like Autism for example. Flouride in our water causes pathological demineralization of bone and deterioration of bone strength thus increasing fractures of the bones and Osteoporosis. Research has shown that an increase in Osteoporosis is occuring in earler years of life. They postulate that the onset of Osteoporosis starts at age..... 2yrs. Why? Because kids drink so many soft drinks and the Phosphoric acid in the sodas causes the bones to lose Calcium. Excessive Phosphourus leaches Calcium out of the body as well as the sugars in the sodas. Partially hydrogenated oils are fats that have been altered in order to have a longer shelf life; however, we cannot break these fats down thus it is affecting our arteries and other organs causing death. An article I read in the Wall Street Journel a few days ago discussed this problem.

Prozac which is made by Eli Lilly company (while Bush Sr. was Director of the CIA he was also the director of Eli Lilly company) is known to cause violence. The first person known to the public to become violent was Joseph Westbecker. While taking Prozac he went to work one day (in Louisville) with a rifle and killed 8 and wounded 16. Was Joseph Westbecker a violent man? No, because I personally knew him and played baseball with his younger son. We even went camping with his family. It is known that Navy Seals have returned from Afganastan and due to the stress of their mission were given high doses of Prozac to help their stress. The Seals are stressed by what they were doing. The high dose of Prozac caused many of the Seals to become violent and they have killed their family/friends or attempted some form of suicide. Once they do this they are shipped to a psychiatric ward. Thus no one will believe a Schitzophrenic or Psychotic person who is telling people what is truly going on with covert operations that our government/CIA is doing to other countries. How do I know this? My wife worked in this area for 10 years and we have friends who treat many miliatary personal diagnosed with Schitzophrenia or other Psychotic disorders. The stories you hear will turn your stomach. Our government trains them, abuses them and then gets rid of them...

Cipro - the cure for Anthrax made by Bayer, and Bioport which is the company that controls the supply to the US. Bioport is owned mostly by the Carlye Group which is run and owned by the Bin Laden family, former PM of UK John Major, James Baker III and the Bush family. Both the Bin Laden and Bush families have financial ties to Bayer. Besides Cipro what other cure or prevention can protect you from Anthrax? Colloidal Siver and Cannabis.

Follow the money trail and you'll find all the answers you need...

I will give more info later but I do need to go. Thanks for all of the questions you have. I'm more than happy to expound on and present the facts to back up what I have to say.

Woody

Edited by Veneo

What you say may be true, but what's the secrecy about it?
And what if they lie?

Welldone!

I don't understand the sceptics. They are sceptic because the media won't talk about what's really going on. And until they have proven me that none of all these negatives things aren't real, I have the right to doubt. Our government has the power, therefore it has the knowledge. "Knowledge is power", the old adage says. I believe it! An uninformed population cannot face these dangers. Of course there is the problem of disinformation, but I sincerely believe that disinformation exists because real information is being put out. We all have to trust our higher selves to regognise the truth.

It is said that when you read something and you have goosebumps, it is a signal from your higher self that what you are reading is true. Don't forget that we are at the End of Times. I sincerely believe it. The forces of darkness are fighting with more energy than they've had before. At the same time, the Forces of Light are present, and there is a reason to it. Just check "real pictures of Jesus" on the net. There are many, but try the one with a blue sky as a background. Jesus is here! Last year, I saw the Archangel Michael in the skies. He is God's no.1 warrior. So something is definitely going on.

Hmmm, if this is so, wouldn't those who created and approved this chemicals risking themselves and their family also? Just doesn't make sense. It's like a conscious suicide and murder We are all part of the population, even the government.

This is not really about the chemtrail/contrail issue (although I DO absolutely think there is more than meets the eye about the real purpose of these sprayings, whatever that might be), but rather about the general idea of coercive "conspiracies" in today's world. As you rightly point out, Connie, some see conspiracies in everything, and that can certainly get overbalanced in the direction of paranoia. On the other hand, some folks are so wary of the whole "conspiracy theory" mindset that even the use of the word or the hint of conspiracy is enough to discredit whatever a person may be speaking or writing about ... and that's not realistic either.

Certainly there ARE many many "conspiracies" around. The word simply means people acting together to achieve ends that are not openly discussed or open to input from others ... and to that extent world politics has ALWAYS been dominated by conspiracies, as has local politics, corporate politics, "office politics," even the maneuverings of the "insiders" at the local PTA! But the word implies something rigidly organized with secret passwords and handshakes, when that is not necessarily the case at all, and therefore inclines folks to disbelieve in conspiracies on a large scale (after all, how could you get massive numbers of people around the world to agree on highly organized secret goals, much less keep them secret? )

In my mind the most realistic and useful way to relate to large-scale conspiracies (like the "New World Order" conspiracy) is to analogize them to the small group of socially prominent land-owning families that more or less "run things" in almost every small town. Nobody doubts that the members of these extended families, and their close friends and associates, are the ones who mainly control the city council, the school board, the local zoning commission and so on. They are members of the same civic clubs, the same country clubs, and so on. They generally own the oldest established businesses in town, and they naturally "look out for one another" when political or business issues are decided that affect the town. When a new highway comes through, it's no surprise that it "happens" to be located on land owned by an insider or his brother or cousin. When there are zoning changes, or civil ordinances passed, they tend to favor the wealthy families, and so on. Everybody knows that this is how things work in a small town -- yet rarely is it called a "conspiracy." It's just the good old boys looking out for each other, right?

Well, it's the same thing in the world at large ... on a larger scale. There are rich and powerful families that have had a major hand in controlling what happens on a world scale for centuries, perhaps thousands of years in some cases. These include the old royal bloodlines, the major banking and finance families, and more recently the major trade and industrial families and so on. No mystery or secrecy about this, most of these "good old boys" on a world scale openly and proudly trace their family lineage and worldly power back through history. No secret that they "hang together" and "look out for each other," either. Royalty almost always marries royalty (even in this non-royal modern age), and the kings and queens of all the different countries are related more to each other than to their national subjects. (For example the British royal family is originally a branch of the German royal family of Saxe-Coburg, which changed its name to Windsor during World War I when Britain was at war with Germany. They succeeded the house of Hanover (another German royal family) of whom Queen Victoria was the last monarch. Catherine the Great of Russia was another Hanoverian related to Queen Victoria, and believe it or not President Bush is a relative of Queen Elizabeth through the ancestry of King Charles II and others (strange but true, look it up in Burke's Peerage, the world's leading historians of royal lineage!)

Similarly, the major European banking families who invented modern banking and finance today control directly or indirectly all of the world's central banks and financial controls - the major stockholders of our own Federal Reserve are the Rothschilds, and over 90% of the remaining ownership is in the hands of dynastic European banking families. Again, no big secrets about this, it's all a matter of public record and freely acknowledged.

The point is, there IS a worldwide group of royal and commercial "bluebloods" who dominate the power structure of the world, not as a "secret organization," but as a "good old boys" network of families who travel the same circles, have the same general interests, and generally "look out for one another" ... and have for centuries. It is also true that the major "world policy" organizations of the world, like the Bilderbergers, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, the Club of Rome, the Council on Foreign Relations, and so on, are primarily staffed and dominated by members of this worldwide good old boys network, most of whom have multiple memberships in several such policy organizations ... AND that the official published aims of ALL these organizations is a centralized one world government organized along administrative (bureaucratic) principles rather than democratic principles as generally understood by citizens of the "free world." Again, no mysteries or secrets, you can look up the memberships of most of these organizations and read their stated aims. These are the aims of the "Corporatist" state being pushed forward by the so-called "globalist" movement that has manifested in the International Monetary Fund, World Bank, World Court, European Union, NAFTA, and so on.

None of what I've just stated is open to dispute, or denied by anyone including these organizations themselves. It is entirely factual. The question is, is this a global "conspiracy," or is it just a worldwide group of "good old boys" with common interests who look out for each other and promote a generally common agenda?

My own thought is, it doesn't matter what you callit, it is what it is ... and if calling it a conspiracy tends to make people think of it as a wacko paranoid idea, then don't call it a conspiracy! That's just a distraction.

Now, it's also fair to say that just because this loosely cohesive group of folks with tremendous power and aims that are not widely recognized or publicized exists, it does NOT follow that everything done by these folks is part of a conspiracy, or that they don't disagree and fight with each other about a lot of things. The elite of any small town can certainly compete with each other, disagree with each other and have falling-outs ... and do. But in general they will cover each others' backs and support each others' interests against "outsiders," and the same is true of the global elite. Case in point: the Council on Foreign Relations is one of the most notorious New World Order think tanks devoted explicitly to one-world corporatism ... yet just yesterday at a meeting of the Council, Canada's Primer Minister Chretien roundly criticized Bush's intransigence toward unilateral decision to attack Iraq. So it's a mistake that the more vocal conspiracy theorists often make to assume that this is like a secret blood brotherhood where every member is pledged to support a single common aim in every way at all times. It isn't.

But it IS true that the "members" of this global consortium are all in agreement about the broad general direction toward which they intend to push civilization, and they all work in their own ways toward that end. It is also true that many of them are folks of good will who believe that what they are working toward is a good thing for humanity, unaware that many of their more powerful and secretive brethren have very coercive and criminal aims. Like the broad coalitions that brought the Soviet and Nazi totalitarian regimes to power, many of them had no idea that they were supporting anything that was not idealistic and beneficial to humanity. But that won't save the world when the darker elements build on the groundwork laid by the idealists to impose their domination on the world. The "New World Order," like other "idealistic" totalitarianisms, is one built on POWER. And when power is the measure, the most vicious and brutal elements ALWAYS rise to the top.

And believe me, those darker elements (like the CIA) DO exist, and are even today engaged in horrendous criminal actions and violations of human rights on a scale few of us would be willing to believe ... but are nonetheless true. Suppressing the immune systems of the population? Raping and torturing to create mind-controlled slaves? Broadcasting debilitating electromagnetic radiation? Plotting dictatorial coups and genocidal campaigns? You better believe it! These are not paranoid delusions, they are happening! When the CIA was founded just after WWII, one of its first operations was the infamous "Project Paperclip," which involved clandestinely protecting and recruiting Nazi war criminals who were active in brainwashing, mind-control, mass manipulation, torture and other coercive technologies of population control (well-documented, although years after the fact, through congressional hearings and the Freedom of Information Act.) That set the early tone for the CIA, and it has been dominated by that mindset and technology ever since. If you can imagine what the most vicious Nazi war criminals could and would be doing with today's technology, you have a pretty good idea of what the inner core of the CIA is all about. Is that insane? You bet it is! But history records only too clearly that insane evil can and does exist, and it is credulously naive to think that "it can't happen here and now." It can and is.

The point of this is not to be paranoid, but to begin being aware that horrors of the 1984 and Brave New World variety - and worse - are real. They are happening now, and will expand to happen on an unopposable worldwide scale in the future, unless they are stopped.

We need to be aware because we can't say NO to what we don't know or can't believe!

Love,
Greg

Hi All

I have read everyone's response here. Greg and Woody both of you addressed what is common knowledge. What Woody cited about aspartame is common knowledge, we have all have been warned about the comsumption of products containing aspartame. There have been documentaries on TV regarding the effect that Prozac has on the mind and the incidents you cited are also common knowledge if you read the newspapers or watch TV documentaries and the news. I saw a documentary concerning the Navy Seals you spoke about. This happens frequently with perscription drugs in our society, where they are thought harmless and their use is approved by the FDA, only to later find out, most times the hard way, that they can have very harmful side effects and damage to the body. Those are real things and are common knowledge. I believe they were put on Prozac because of the effects the Gulf War had on them. Now the question is did the government doctors give Prozac to those Navy Seals with FULL knowledge at the time of the harm those drugs could do to the mind? Or was that something that was discovered later on? I also know of a case where a teenager given Prozac by perscription stole a plane and flew it into a building, not on purpose, he could not even fly a plane. The govenment was not involved in that incident. The drug Prozac was the culprit. That Bush has money invested in Eli Lilly who manufactures that drug would not be unbelievable. So do a lot of other people. Eli Lilly is one of the largest drug companies in this country and is listed on the New York Stock Exchange. The Bush's have loads of money and have investments in a lot of companies. So a lot of things he approves as President is self-interest. I would never question that at all. And yes, in reply to Nanoche, I not only THINK ,I have the RIGHT to doubt, I DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO DOUBT. In fact I have the right to question anything I hear and I even have the right to question God. Because it is in the questioning of God that our faith grows. It is in the questioning of things like "chemtrails" that I can form an EDUCATED opinion. Anyone who does not question what he hears, or reads, or even sees is left gullible to believe anything. You said you saw Michael the Archangel in the sky. Am I supposed to believe that just because you said it? Or can I question it? Can I doubt it? You saying it does not make it fact because, while I do believe in visions and miracles, it was your experience, not mine. Because I believe in miracles and visions does that mean that others cannot doubt their existance? Do not even some people doubt the existance of God? Doubt and questioning is a part of faith growth and it is a part of learning and forming an educated opinion so as not to be gullible enough to believe just anything. I have had visions too but me telling someone else about them does not mean they have to believe I had a vision because I say so. Nor would I even expect them to believe it because it was my experience and not theirs. A vision is something a person has to experience to believe.

What you said was a lot to digest, Greg and I may come back later with more on that. That our CIA or our government are involved in secret experimentation in mind control, germ warfare, and all that I think is something that all Americans believe to be the case. It has been a documented fact that they performed some of those experiments on soldiers. I forgot what war that happened in but I think it was during World War ll. That our government did allow ex Nazi scientists into this country is also a known fact. Some of them were involved in the early space program. One of them designed the first Apollo spacecraft and became the director of NASA.

I don't know about all that blueblood stuff you spoke of in your reply, Greg. All I know is that whoever George W. Bush got his genetics from, it's my opinion they bred an idiot. That there is a group of wealthy people who are pushing this civilization in the direction they want it to go is also something I think we are all aware of. It's been happening since the beginning of mankind. Having agendas is no shock either. We all have our agendas. Not just the powers that be. I have my agenda, you have your agenda, woody has his agenda, all people have their agendas. Face it, if there were not something in it for us we wouldn't be doing it. That is human nature. Humankind being the way we are by nature, even when we do good for others, if we really examined our conscience and questioned our real motives, unless we are saints, we have an agenda. Even if it is just because it makes us happy and makes us feel good about ourselves, that is something we get out of it or we wouldn't be doing it. So that our government, GW and all the wealthy people or bluebloods have their agendas is no shock or surprise. Now the question is do we try to do what we can to push for our own agenda, which is world peace, love and a brotherhood of humankind, a government of the people under the Constitution, because yes, that too is an agenda. Do we look for conspiraces and plots every where or channel our energies into finding a solution for all the evils we speak of?

That there is real evil and real injustice in the world is not the issue here. Certainly there are real evils and real injustices in the world. Who would doubt that? Who would question that? That our government is part of those evils and injustices is not something any one with any intelligence and knowledge of the world or history would question. We talk in this forum about the fear tactics our government is using on us to justify their war in Iraq, we talk about the fear tactics of the al-Qaeda in their terroism in the world, but what are these things such as government conspiracies and plots to control our minds by spraying chemtrails, conspiracies to control the weather, etc. etc. etc. if not fear tactics themselves? Because that is the only purpose this serves, to instill more fear into people.

Has anyone ever ACTUALLY seen these planes spraying this chemtrail, outsides of the spraying they do crops on farms I mean? I want an eyewitness. On the same premise while we are at it, how do we know the Chem Lawn guy who sprays our lawns to kill weeds is not in reality a secret government agent connected with the CIA who is in actuality spraying mind control chemicals? Maybe my baker is an agent of the CIA and is putting mind control drugs in the bread I buy. I bet if I started that idea on the internet it would catch on too. Maybe I should submit it at Yahoo groups which is ALWAYS a good source of reference. I just am not that suspicious by nature I guess. And I thank God for that. Lets spread love and not more fear in the world.

Love, Connie

Very well said Greg... Knowledge is power!

On a side note here. I'm not sure how many know this little factoid, but Bush Sr. and George W. were members of the Skull and Bones society at Yale. If you haven't seen the film "Skulls" yet, it is a movie that was done about this, and the director (I believe) shared this little piece of information in the extras of the DVD. Once in this society, you are in it for life, and the laws of the society supercede that of the laws of the country...

Hi everyone,

Yes, Connie I have seen them spraying for years now. It is almost always some sort of grid. They either look like tic tac toe or giant x's in the sky. And what makes them so disguishable from "normal" contrails is that a normal contrail will disappate in a few minutes but contrails fan out and will totally cover the sky in wispy cirrus looking clouds that last for hours.

I can't tell you how many dozens of people I have pointed these out to and they are all amzazed and say they never noticed. I'll point out a "normal" plane and then the "not so normal" kinds. Also the spraying tends to be done early in the morning but I have also seen them spray at dusk.

I live fairly close to a miliatary installation and I'm sure that's who is doing it.
I truly do not know why but when they're spraying and I take the children outside their noses all start pouring and their eyes water. It's not good for us that's for sure.
But whether the spraying is done to harm us...I'm not sure about that.
However, I do think that even though they know it may hurt us that is not enough to stop them. The ill health of the citizens may just be...what's that phrase they love so well...collateral damage.

Connie, I know you don't know me and you may certainly question me but I swear to you I have seen these planes for years now. My next door neightbor is an airplane mechanic and he used to tell me they were normal contrails but one day when there were both kinds of plane in sky and the vapors did different things, he seemed very puzzled.

Woody, I'm a big fan of colloidal silver. There's not many things it doesn't help but it's great on sinus/allergy things. It's also good for earaches.

Great discussion everyone!

Nope moonflower

Wrong again. The President doesn't own any LLY (Eli Lilly) nor is he managing his financial holdings.

Check it out for yourself.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/TheStreet/bush_makeover001025.html

By the way, it was Bill Clinton who had a very close association with Prozac.

jwhop

Hi guys

Love this discussion! I had planned to come back with info I have saved on chemtrails etc., but I see Peggy said much if what I was going to say, about noticing the difference betweeen a chemtrail and a contrail. We get them alot - and I remember noticing them especially often around the time the governemnt of Ontario was going all out to push their free flu vaccine program on everyone. I remember wondering at the time if there was a link, since I'd also heard about chemtrails and their bad effects on ones immune system. Anyway, that's just my experience. My husband doens't belive it, nor do most of my friends. And I honestly would get no satisfaction about being right about it. The one thing I have really noticed about these types of issues is that it is basically pointless to ever try and convince anyone that these things happen. It's almost like the phrase we see associated with spiritual studies - when the student is ready the teacher will appear. That's not meant to put down anyone who doesn't belive in any of these types of "conspiracy", just that I have seen time and time again that some people automatically and totally resisit this type of information, and some people are very receptive to it, and most fall somewhere in the middle. I do agree with Connie's statement that much of the information that circulates about chemtrails or conspiracy theories is very fear-based, and yes, it does almost constitute a brand of terrorism, in that it can cause people to feel paralyzed by fears. And sometimes I think that feeding any of that type of energy does "them" more good than harm - since alot of this conspiracy stuff can be a big smokescreen filled with as many lies as truth, and as much mis-information, rumor and innuendo than real solid facts.

I love the way Greg expressed his thoughts about the familes of power in the world, and their agenda of domination. I also think it's important for people to understand that if there is a chemtrail conspiracy related to vaccines or immune system disruptions that there might only be 3 or 4 people on the whole continent who know the whole scope of the plan. I don't think much of GW Bush, but I doubt he would even be one of the fully informed. I really won't accept that the people we vote in as our leaders have a full grasp of some of the more dire implications of the NWO plot we see unfolding around us. I mean let's be real here - how clever do we really think GW and Cretien are? Do we really think these guys are adopting their various positions on things because they are smart and well reasoned guys? NO - they carry with them a certain sense of personal charm, charisma, leadership and in the case of GW ties to old families and a family history of prestige. It's their "handlers", their advisors (who in most cases are not-elected) who weld the real power.

Sigh...

I don't know exactly what I am trying to say - I guess just that while I see great evil at work in the world, I do not belive that all doctors who offer vaccinations, for example, are knowingly trying to inject their patients with microchips and disease. They are acting out of what they feel is a good and noble intention. But maybe somewhere much higher than them, something else is afoot.

Anyway, I am kind of rambly tonight, but I am going to sign off for now - except to add that I am so gald to see you here now Connie. I love what you have brought to these discussions.

Love,
Terri

FYI jwhop. I did not say that Bush did own stock in Eli Lilly. It was woody that suggested that. I merely said it would not surprise me if he did. I will tell you straight out because I am a straight shooter, I did not like the comment you made about me "being wrong again". That is insinuating I have been wrong before, which I have and so have you and everyone else. I suggest you try to be a bit more polite jwhop.

moonflower

Connie I couldn't agree with you more that we should put our energy into spreading light and love rather than fear ... and you are surely right too that we should all doubt what we don't have good reason to believe, and there is indeed a lot of crazy stuff out on the internet that is sheer raving anger, paranoia, and totally useless unsupported ravings!

At the same time, there are things I DO believe that many would characterize as lunatic paranoia not worth looking into further. My friend Cathy's experiences in the hands of the CIA's mind controllers would fall into that category ... and while I absolutely would not ask or expect you to believe anything just because I (or anyone else) SAYS so, I do strongly disagree with your idea that talking about "government conspiracies and plots to control our minds" etcetera is just fear tactics, or that "the only purpose it serves is to instill more fear into people."

In fact, although such things ARE fearful, if they are real we do ourselves and others great harm to turn away from learning about them. In the case of Cathy O'Brien, she has dedicated her life to talking about CIA horrors, especially the mind control and abuse she was personally subjected to, but also other horrors she was privy to while in that position ... yet Cathy is anything BUT a fear-monger. To the contrary, she is a deeply loving and compassionate woman who is trying desperately to save countless other human beings from the same tortures, some she knows personally and thousands she doesn't ... including her own daughter, who is still suffering under life-threatening programming that cannot be reversed except through the use of the "classified" technology that induced it in the first place ... and the ONLY way she will EVER have a chance to improve this situation is by talking about it, by getting people to listen and consider her evidence. And it is very difficult, because the things she speaks about are SO horrible and fearful and "unvelievable" that most folks simply tune her out and refuse to consider what she is saying, because it is too painful and unsettling to listen to. But she continues talking about it, as vocally and as widely as she can ... not because she is a fear-monger, but because she loves ... because she cannot bear it that innocent human beings are suffering such tortures, and she knows full well that unless and until people BELIEVE this is happening, they WILL NOT take action to stop it!

I deeply empathize with what you are saying about the danger and negativity of focusing on so much that is wrong rather than putting our energy into doing our best to spread what is right ... and it's very easy to get so caught up in anger and fear that our own light becomes dimmed, and then we are no good to anyone. But there is a balance, if we want to do good for the world, between focusing on the light and becoming aware of the injustices that do exist, that we might change them.

There is much about the abuses of power that go on in the world that I do not know about and may never know about, because I too have a tolerance level, and I too want to reserve my energies for spreading light rather than sinking into the overwhelming contemplation of darkness ... and each of us must decide for ourselves where that balance lies, and what "negative" ideas we have the fortitude to look into more closely. And many of them may indeed, on closer examination, prove to be groundless or great exaggerations, as indeed many of them are NOT. But surely if someone were being raped on your street in front of your house, you would not choose to look away and not think about it because it is fearful and negative ... you would want to look at it squarely and shout about it loudly, that you might DO something to stop it!

Please don't think I'm coming down on you for your feelings about this, because that's not what I mean to do at all, and in large measure I agree with what (I think) you are saying. But I did have a sttrong reaction to the idea that speaking and writing about some of the real horrors behind the scenes accomplishes nothing but spreading fear. Indeed there are some things that it is critically important to spread awareness of despite the fact that they are fearful and negative, because that is the only way we will gain the power to change them. At any rate, that's my belief.

Love,
Greg

I found the following article on the internet. It is one of many and also in searching the validity of chemtrails I came across many other articles which stated that the chemtrail conspiracy theory is a hoax that has been circulating among the public since 1996 and has been debunked by many educational institutions and scientist. This article does not deal with debunking any conspiracy theory but addresses what NASA and scientist are studying regarding the effect of contrails on the evironment and rather or not all the aircraft we have in our skies now is having an effect on the weather conditions. I tried just posting the site but it did not have an acceptable site address.

<!--StartFragment-->Posted on Tue, Jul. 23, 2002


9/11 offered rare chance to study contrail-free sky
By Dan McKinney
Special to the Mercury News


Last September, out of tragic circumstances, atmospheric scientists were
given a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

For several days after the attacks on the World Trade Center, all
commercial aviation was grounded -- an event unprecedented in the
industry's history. The episode offered scientists a rare glimpse at North
America without contrails -- and a chance to compare those atmospheric
conditions to more routine ones.

In the late afternoon of Sept. 11, the only three contrails visible from
space, according to satellite images, were those coming from Air Force
One and its two fighter jet escorts on their way to Washington. Scientists
closely monitored the atmosphere during that time because it was devoid
of all but a few aircraft.

``The 9/11 study helped because we were able to identify contrails
developing without interference from others,'' said Patrick Minnis, a senior
research scientist at the NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va.

The Sept. 11 aviation shutdown gave scientists some of their first hard
evidence of regional climate shifts. One researcher now believes contrails
contribute to an overall cooling during the day and warming at night -- a
finding that may sound beneficial, but actually points to worrisome
artificial climate change, scientists say.

David Travis, a climatologist at the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater,
presented a paper at a recent American Meteorological Society
conference showing a widening of day-to-night temperature ranges in
the days following Sept. 11. His research includes findings that challenge
prevailing views of contrails and climate.

Without contrails, Travis was able to measure temperatures across the
continent and compare them to similar measurements taken before Sept.
11. He found that the difference between the warmest temperature during
the day and the coldest temperature at night grew 3 degrees on average,
and as much as 5 degrees in parts of the country where contrails were
likely to form.

Net cooling effect

This would mean contrails shield the Earth from the sun during the day,
causing lower temperatures, and warm it at night, trapping the Earth's
heat like a blanket. Because there are generally more flights and more
trails during the day than at night, Travis speculates contrails have a net
cooling effect on the Earth. His conclusion is a radical departure from the
conventional theory that contrails contribute to warming.

``Contrails can cool or warm the Earth. The key is, there are more contrails
at day than at night,'' Travis said. ``Because of that, the daytime effect is
likely to dominate,'' meaning contrails do more cooling than heating.

Travis said his background as a climatologist helped him arrive at that
answer. Most previous knowledge of contrail effects had been gleaned
from complex meteorological theories. But Travis compared hard data from
the Sept. 11 shutdown to previous climate history and based his
conclusion on what the evidence told him.

``Most of what my colleagues have done is theoretical modeling done with
computers,'' he said. ``I'm an empirical researcher looking at data.''

Travis said a major shift in how scientists think about contrails' effect on
climate may be in the making. ``Now we see that a contrail effect can be
measured in the climate record,'' he said. Travis' finding will be published
in an upcoming issue of the journal Nature.

``The big implication is that this is the first direct evidence that the global
warming debate is complicated by jet contrails,'' Travis said.

So if contrails are off-setting warming, is that a good thing? Travis is
quick to point out that contrails only affect regional climates.

``We don't want people to think that it's a great thing that contrails are out
there,'' he said. ``Because any artificial temperature change isn't good for
the environment.''

The plane-free skies after the terrorist attacks also allowed scientists to
study another contrail-related issue, the connections between the vapor
trails and a type of naturally occurring high cloud cover known as cirrus clouds.

Like cirrus clouds

Researchers have found that contrails behave exactly like cirrus clouds.
Cirrus clouds are excellent insulators, and they may contribute
significantly to global warming. Some scientists believe contrails could
encourage their formation, and the terrorist attacks gave researchers a
chance to see how many cirrus clouds would naturally be present without
aircraft.

The mysterious cloud species is to atmospheric scientists what dark
matter is to astrophysicists -- mostly unknown. Wispy thin cirrus clouds
travel at 30,000 to 60,000 feet above ground, and, unlike cumulus clouds,
their lower, puffy, popcorn-shaped cousins, cirrus clouds can be nearly
invisible.

``The way that the climate community has been trying to think about this
is by separating natural cloudiness from human-induced perturbations,''
said Ronald Cohen, a specialist in atmospheric chemistry at the University
of California-Berkeley.

Cohen spent almost 10 years studying the effects of aviation on the
atmosphere. The links between cirrus cloud formation and contrails are
still elusive, he said, but theories addressing aviation's role are being
investigated. A recent NASA study suggests that the small particles found
in airplane emissions could serve as nuclei, attracting water vapor to
themselves and eventually forming artificial cirrus clouds.

A paper Minnis presented in early May at an American Meteorological
Society meeting makes the connection between the high wispy clouds
and contrails more clear. By watching the few, isolated contrails present
during the Sept. 11 aviation shutdown, Minnis was able to precisely
measure their growth as they transformed into cirrus clouds.

``During regular air traffic, we will see linear contrails crossing each other,
often in the midst of thin cirrus clouds,'' he said. ``The thin cirrus clouds
could be the old contrails formed a few hours earlier. Surely, that
happens. We just need to learn how often it happens.''

Other regions that are regularly covered by cirrus clouds were
unobscured in post-Sept. 11 skies, Minnis found. ``Large areas that
normally have cirrus clouds were clear because there were no contrails,''
he said.


Contact Dan McKinney at science@sjmercury.com.

I think that what you are seeing that remain for as long as 2 hours after a plane passes over are cirrus clouds which were formed due to contrails from jets. The pattern is simply caused by all the air traffice crossing our skies going north, east, south and west. But there is a REAL concern that scientists have about the effect of those contrail on the global temperatures and if they have the ability to effect weather patterns.

Love, Connie

Well good moonflower

Glad to hear you're a straight shooter. So am I. So listen up. I don't appreciate your gratuitous lying and slanderous characterization of President Bush any more than the other I hate Bush posters here.

With the general paranoia rampant on this forum, I think I'd keep a lid on "madman" characterizations if I were you.

The vast majority of Americans would read the crap on this forum and immediately throw up on their keyboards.

Not only that moonflower, I also question your antiwar and compassionate credentials along with others here.
No bombs have fallen and no shots have been fired in the continuation of the Gulf War. Yet, you and others here have aligned yourselves with the Marxists at A.N.S.W.E.R which is a communist front organization for the WWP (Workers World Party) and the other Marxist organizations some here have linked in their posts. You're advocating peace marches and signing peace petitions now but where were you and the other so called compassionate pacifists when Clinton was bombing the hell out of Iraq in 1999. Not a peep from any of you and not a peep from WWP or the other communist organizations here either.

Ditto when in 1999 Clinton authorized 78 days of continuos bombing of Serbia. There are bomb craters all over Serbia and there were dead civilians too but again, not a peep from the antiwar crowd and the WWP, and no UN authorization was sought or given.

So, as far as I'm concerned, you and the rest of the I hate Bush crowd can save your morally superior attitude for the tourists. I think you neither particularly moral or superior. And that goes for any one else who aligns themselves with the communists who are agitating for power they can't win at the ballot box, who in the end produce the type of government discussed in the following article.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/2/13/110824.shtml

Peace, Love, Compassion and Communism---Right!

This is as polite as I get when people hurl lying insults or characterize President Bush variously as, a madman, the Devil, Hitler, the Antichrist, brain dead, etc., etc., etc.

You're perfectly welcome to your opinion of President Bush and/or the Bush Administration but if you choose to express your opinions with fighting words, expect to get fired on.

jwhop

Hi Greg

I agree with what you just said. I of course would not look the other way if someone were being raped in front of my house without talking about it. I have never in my life denied anything because I felt it was too unpleasant to talk about or think about. Even my own unpleasant experiences in life. However, I think it is important to get both sides of the story. This is a learning experience because when it all sounds so far out to me or so illogical and unreasonable to me, I will research it and read both sides of the story. In doing that I also learn which I think is great. In fact, since I joined Conscious Evolution I have had to back up everything I give an opinion about if it differs from the opinions of others. So I am learning much. And I don't mean that negatively. I think people should back up what they say with evidence and that can be both pro and con. In the case of these chemtrails there is evidence to be found from reputable sources on the internet that also disputes the theory. I think if you are going to post something like this chemtrail conspiracy you should post both sides of the story so people can form an opinion. Because we can't form an opinion if we only hear one side of the story.

Since you have brought up your friend Cathy more than once, I am curious as to how you got involved in this. You may have talked about it before in the archives, if so please let me know and I will read about it. I am curious as to how she was selected for these experiments. I did check the site you provided for me and read through much of it. I did not find anything at the site regarding how she was selected for these experiments.

I don't deny reality. There are government conspiraces and cover ups. It has happened more than once. But I also consider that after his death everyone in the world was claiming that John Kennedy slept with everyone but my mother and that Bobby Kennedy had Marilyn Monroe killed. Martin Luther King Jr. had a mistress they said.

There is nothing wrong with questioning what you hear. And the question in my mind is why the government would even want to go to all the trouble and expense, out in the open for all to see, and spray us in order to control our minds when most Americans will buy anything the government tells them to begin with Polls show that 75% of U.S. citizens think that a war with Iraq is the only course to peace. War as a means of attaining peace! If people buy that they would buy anything so why should the government have to go to the trouble of spraying us to control our minds? A speech will do. Another thing is why is it working on some people and not others? Another question was posed by Libra_Sun which makes a whole lot of sense to me and brought up a very good point...wouldn't it also have an effect on their families and even them if they are pumping this stuff into the atmosphere? I live very close to Selfridge Air Force base and I have never seen chemtrails. I have seen contrails and I have seen cirrus clouds. I have sinus problems too. I have allergies to mold in the air in the spring and fall. On certain days I go outside and my nose plugs up immediately, my eyes water and I get sinus headaches. But that is because I have lived in Michigan all my life and with the humidity from the Great Lakes and the way the Great Lakes change weather patterns constantly, anyone who lives in this state for a long time is going to develop sinus problems. Also corporations are pulluting our air and that is a reality.

Love, Connie

A few months ago I searched the Internet to find out more about chemtrails. In all the sites that I poured through, none of them could explain exactly what chemtrails are. It was all theories. The chemtrails are said to be created by spraying using military KC-135's.

I was in the U.S. Air Force for five years. Four of those years were spent at Offutt AF Base in Omaha, NE. The base is home to Strategic Air Command Headquarters where there is an underground command center in case of nuclear attack.



On our base we had KC-135's more than any other military plane. We used to nickname the KC-135 the gas-tanker of the sky because that is what they are used for. They carried JP-4 Fuel (Jet Petroleum) to refuel military jets while in flight. The primary plane that was refueled was the Looking Glass, which is the command post in the air just in case our base was destroyed. There is always one Looking Glass in the air. One takes off and gets airborne before the other one can land and they are usually in the air for several hours at a time, which is why they need to be refueled constantly.

I had different levels of security clearances. One of the secured places where I had unrestricted access to was the ramp where the KC-135's were parked. Whenever it snowed, I plowed and cleaned the areas around these jets. I do know what a KC-135 is. I came within inches of kissing one in the rear. One almost landed on me and my snow plow when the engine threw a rod and I was stuck right in the middle of the runway. Instead of landing it did a low flyover and stayed in the air till my plow was towed. Talk about needing a change of underwear .



I used to bring coffee to the guards and let them sit inside the cab of the snowplow to warm up a bit. In the summer time we worked on the concrete and made any repairs that had to be done. I made many friends while in the service and several of them were the security police that guarded these planes. I also knew quite a few jet engine mechanics that worked on these planes.

On many occasions we would go out on the town. The security police had one of the most boring jobs standing or walking up and down a ramp 8 hours a day guarding a jet. Because of that they would get drunk as a skunk and they would start blabbing about their job. Not once have I ever heard these jets were used for spraying chemicals of any kind. NEVER!!!

Also, JP-4 Fuel has a distinct odor to it the same way diesel fuel has. I could smell it from our barracks. Just like the noise of the jets taking off all day long the odor was something we got use to.

If these KC-135's were carrying anything other than JP-4 it would be noticeable. Also, these so-called chemicals the planes are carrying since they were always in close proxmity to the KC-135's would affect the guards and the mechanics. Nobody ever complained or showed any symptoms or side affects these chemicals are said to allegedly cause.


Sabra