This article which I mentioned in my above post is from The Detroit News, Wed. Feb.26. This is what you were talking about, Greg. How innocent people can be wrongly accused in the "terrorist sweeps." I feel so bad for this man.

Man caught in terror sweep to return home after judge throws out 'Orwellian' charges

By David Shepardson / The Detroit News

DEARBORN -- On his way to Indianapolis to make a delivery, truck driver Mohamed Nasser Alajji got a flat tire and pulled into a rest stop in Springfield, Mich., where he was promptly arrested.

The day before, on Dec. 17, New York police got a call saying Alajji was plotting a "bin Laden al-Qaida" terrorist attack.

The FBI searched his home and truck, seized his computer and spent hours retrieving deleted e-mails. He spent 10 days in the Wayne County Jail, while reporters and federal agents staked out his home.

Alajji was freed Dec. 27 by a federal magistrate who dismissed the government's charges and later severely criticized the government's case in a confidential memo to other federal magistrates and judges that was obtained by The Detroit News.

Now, without an apology from the government and still officially under investigation, Alajji is going home to Yemen. The 31-year-old who came to Dearborn in 1995 is to fly home Saturday on a Royal Jordanian flight. An FBI agent will meet him at the airport to give him his passport and watch him leave Detroit Metropolitan Airport, the U.S. Attorney's Office said.

"I don't feel safe anymore. I think all Muslims are under suspicion," Alajji said in an hourlong interview Tuesday. "These accusations were totally false."

Federal investigators say they were simply doing their job in the post-Sept. 11 world of investigating all allegations of terrorism. But critics of the war on terrorism point to the Alajji case as an example of the government trampling on civil rights and hastily prosecuting Arabs and Arab-Americans for technical violations that it wouldn't normally pursue.

In the Alajji case, federal magistrate Steven Pepe agreed with that criticism. He sent the confidential memorandum to federal judges and magistrates in the eastern district of Michigan explaining why he threw out the charges. He called the government's case Orwellian (a reference to George Orwell, author of such chilling social critiques as "Animal Farm" and "1984").

"Our values could stand up to terrorism and not hobble effective law enforcement," Pepe said. "To abandon them would give the terrorists an undeserved victory."

But the head of the U.S. Attorney's anti-terrorism task force in Detroit said he and his colleagues do not owe Alajji an apology.

"That's a ridiculous question. We do our duty," Assistant U.S. Attorney Robert Cares said.

The government accused Alajji of committing fraud by failing to tell the Social Security Administration that he had been issued a second Social Security number in 1995.

The government's case came down to whether minor mistakes on a Social Security form -- he left a question blank and used a hyphen in his last name in one place -- constituted fraud, said Alajji's attorney, Corbett O'Meara.

Pepe drew a parallel with Orwell's work.

"In "Animal Farm," Orwell writes about certain laws that are written so high on the barn that most of the animals cannot read them," Pepe wrote in the memo. "To me, this last theory of the government's case -- the implied misrepresentation by omission -- on these facts seemed like such an Orwellian law."

Alajji was issued two Social Security numbers in 1995, described by his lawyer as a clerical error. Alajji never used the second card, and both copies of his original Social Security card were recovered by the FBI.

"This second card may well have been given or sold to another alien to allow him to get a job," Pepe wrote. "It has never been found. The statute of limitations has run on this offense."

Alajji's ex-brother-in-law recanted his charge that Alajji was planning a terror attack, Pepe said, noting that Alajji's ex-wife took their two children back to Yemen without the permission of the Wayne County Circuit Court.

Alajji has been under suspicion since October 2001, when a secretary at the Eaton Company in Ann Arbor called the FBI to say that shortly after he quit, a drawing had been left behind on a work table depicting the World Trade Center.

Two days after he quit the company, he denied creating the drawing in an interview with the FBI. Alajji said the FBI interviewed about 50 family and friends in its investigation, including his three uncles who live in Ann Arbor and Buffalo, N.Y.

O'Meara, the son of a federal judge in Detroit who did not get Pepe's memo, sharply criticized the government's actions against Alajji.

"What happened to him was wrong. He didn't do anything that if I had done it, the government wouldn't have thought it was a crime for five minutes," O'Meara said. "He is a decent guy who got caught up in the hysteria of our time. In the government's eyes, he is guilty until proven innocent."

O'Meara noted that his driver license doesn't spell his name with an apostrophe, while his bar membership card has an apostrophe.

"Am I guilty of some sort of fraud because I use some sort of alias" O'Meara said. "I am not a disfavored minority because Irish Catholic Americans are not the people who are being sought."

Alajji's case first came into the national spotlight on Dec. 23, when the government announced his arrest and asked media outlets to publish his photograph.

The government's court filings against Alajji raised numerous questions, however.

Prosecutors said a confidential informant claimed Alajji was ready to die and that he hated Christians and Jews. His former brother-in-law told the New York Police Department that Alajji was a terrorist "getting ready to bomb you guys."

Transcripts from Baghdad University in Iraq for a chemical engineering degree in 1997 obtained by an Ahmad Alajji were found, along with a photograph that the government said looked like Mohamed Alajji.

At home he had about 2,000 audiotapes in Arabic and thousands of Arabic documents in which religious leaders talked about Islam. He had state maps of Michigan and Indiana on his bedroom walls, along with posters of holy sites in Jerusalem.

On Tuesday, Alajji said he hadn't been in a fight since he was 7 and didn't harbor ill will toward anyone.

As for the maps: "I'm a truck driver, so I need maps."

O'Meara said the photograph federal investigators found didn't look like him and apparently was of his brother. In any event, Alajji was in Michigan in 1997.

Alajji said he bought the religious audiotapes from mosques in Dearborn and Hamtramck and they were simply to help him become a better Muslim. "They are to help me uphold the tenants of Islam, which rejects violence."

The tapes reflect the fact that Alajji is a deeply spiritual man, O'Meara said. When he was in the Wayne County Jail, he would often ask guards what time it was so he could pray.

Pepe agreed that the tapes were not evidence of a terrorist plot.

"All of the religious and Muslim fundamentalist information an tapes they found that he had were apparently protected by the First Amendment," Pepe wrote in his memo.

Imad Hamad, Midwest director of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination, said the Alajji case shows that the government needs to do a better job of investigating whether confidential informants have an ax to grind.

Alajji's departure is a sad ending to the case, Hamad said.

"It is a difficult decision to leave. It is hard to go week to week with the burden of being a suspect," he said. "He leaves his American dream behind."

Alajji, the oldest of eight children, will return to Saan'a, Yemen's capital, thanks to a airplane ticket bought by his father, Nasser Ali Nasser Alajji, who owns several factories there.

Alajji said the first thing he plans to do when he arrives is get married. He said he wouldn't encourage his friends and family in Yemen to come to the United States.

"With these laws no," Alajji said. "I don't plan to come back to the United States until the laws change."

In October, Alajji applied for U.S. citizenship. He will abandon that hope by leaving on Saturday.

Asked what he'll miss most, he said: "My friends."

Love, Connie

Did anyone see the CBS / Dan Rather interview with Saddam tonight?

I don't care much for Rather...although my Mother loved him....but still...he showed a great deal of self-control sitting across from a murderer like that.

No matter how you feel about any of this....it was a good chance to really observe...and get a feel for Saddam...

I taped it ...so I could watch and listen separately....

The body language of Hussein was revealing.

The man is definitely NOT insane......which makes him all that much more dangerous.

Connie.....I watched GW's speech too...and I was thinking the exact same thing!!!....it was as if he went down the list Greg wrote item by item....

I was floored!...it was almost eerie.......sure makes you wonder who the anonymous lurkers are......

Well...even if thats a long shot.....it's worth the moment of hopefulness!

My brother-in -law got called back up....so there will now be 2 from my family...fighting this war.

Here's what my bro-in-law had to say:

" The young pups here are so hungry to go and ready to fight. They have never seen a real war, except in the movies, they have no idea how hard it is to kill someone, really kill them, and what war does to a mans' soul. "

The voice of experience.....

and Peace!

Dani

Dani I will keep your family members in my prayers. What your brother-in-law said was very wise. He knows the reality of war.

The things that Pres. Bush said in his speech last night were great in theory, but it's going to be real hard to pull it off in the Middle East with all the divided factions there. It's going to take a long, long time I think. Which means years of commitment for our troops. Our government is not trusted by the Iraqi people either. Letting go of hate, as Pres. Bush stated, is the only way they can come to live in peace in the Middle East, but that is also very hard for human beings who have that hate indoctrinated into them from very young ages.

Like you said, Dani it is worth the moment of hopefulness. It lifted my spirits for a time. But I still am concerned about the repercussions of this war.

Also the U.S. is going to introduce Iraq to a new bomb they have and that bomb itself worries me. It's called the MOAB ( short for massive ordinance air burst) They say it has a massive explosive punch similar to a small nuclear weapon. They say that whatever the target is it has to be dropped far from cities. The bomb is shoved out the back of an airplane and has no parachute. It is guided by satellite and can be dropped at higher altitudes which makes it safer for U.S. pilots. The thing that worries me about this new bomb is that it is still in the experimental stage, and while they say the target will be far from cities in Iraq, what if something goes wrong? You can find the information about this new bomb at the following site:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/World/newbomb030225.html

I hope we are doing the right thing. Also while our government is distracted with the war in Iraq, North Korea is using the distraction to plow ahead in their nuclear warfare development.

Love, Connie

Hello Connie!

I'm so glad to see that finally you would accept a war against Iraq as a "just war" if it would free the Iraqi people and all the people of the Middle East from the tyranny of Saddam... and if in post- Saddam era Iraqi people would be free to elect their own democratic goverment.

Twelve years ago, on 26 of February, after 7 agonizing months of Iraqi occupation, we were waiting for Kuwait to be free.

Now we're waiting again, not for the liberation of Kwt, but for another war, and we're ready for the possibility of chemical or biological attack from Iraq.
It's an agony even thinking about it, trust me, it's very scary.


But only the war will put end to Saddam's tyranny and end to those long years of suffering of Iraqi people, and end to the regional political tension.

We're very optimistic that the war will not last long.

We have our anxieties, the soldiers and policemen are all over the roads. The entire nothern area of Kwt is a military exclusion zone.
We're not in a very happy mood, trust me.

Throughout February the foreign embassies have been issuing advisories urging their citizens to leave if their presence is non essential. Several american and british schools have temporarily being closed.

The tension is very high and we live in it for months now.
War overshadows our lives completely.

Only a miracle can stop this war, but I doubt it that such a miracle could happen.

We're again facing our destinies here in Kwt. Wish all of us here a good luck, please!

El

Hi Eleonora

We will keep you and your family in our prayers and send white light your way throughout this war. It can imagine it must be very scary being right there on the firing line. I think it is also very scary for the Israelites. It seems that Israel and Kuwait are the two countries that Saddam takes out his retaliation on. I guess that is why Jordon is "quietly" aiding the American government.

They are saying here that the war will begin in early March, I think after the full moon (or was it during the full moon? ). If you possibly can, please keep all of us informed as to how you and your family are doing during the war and about what is going on in Kuwait.

Like you, I wish there was another way but it does not seem so and I am still praying for that miracle to happen.

God bless you and your family and may he keep you all safe, Eleonora.

Love, Connie

Hi Eleonora,

Blessings and a blanket of safety and well-being around you and your family and neighbors. It is bound to be a very scary situation to be living where you are at this point, regardless of what course events take in the coming weeks and months.

Let us all pray for the shortest possible path between the present situation and a just and lasting peace in the middle east and throughout the world.

Love,
Greg

Hello hello hello,

I'm late late late to this great discussion. Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and words and contributions.
First I want to say the most important thing is to keep prayng for a peaceful solution to this problem.

To keep with the spirit in which Greg started this thread, I will not add anything to what has been said because I have no further facts to add, just opinion.

However I was wondering if any of you could help with a question I still have after Sept. 11. What if the plane that went down in Penn. was aimed for the Capitol building? It would have been when many legislators and staff would have been present in their offices. If many of them were instantly killed, would the state governors instantly appoint their replacements? How long would this take to be accomplished? What would happen with the balance of power within this scenario? If anyone already knows, I won't be lazy and I'll go look it up myself.

Love,

Hi Connie

I saw a military "expert" (he works for Jane's magazine) being interviewed a week or so ago, and he talked about March 3rd as being the optimum time to launch an attack, as it was during the new moon, which means a dark sky. A dark sky poses much less of a problem to the American / allied forces because of their vastly superior night-vison capabilites, compared to the Iraqi army. Also, the war would likely begin with some serious bombing - I can't remember the numbers this pundit was talking, but I remember at the time thinking it was mind-blowing - he was talking in terms of a huge amount more ordinacnes than the opening of the Gulf War Pt.1 , he descibed it as a "rain of fire". But with the improvements in missle guidence, then hopefully (and I really really pray for this) the targets will be military, and civilans will be spared the worst of this.

The other reason the beginning of March is better, is because of the difficulty of fighting a possible ground war in the desert, in full NCB suits in the summer. If they can get it over and done with before the real heat hits, it will take much less of a toll on the soldiers, and be that much more effective. And if America/allied soliders have to end up fighting a dirty street fight in Bahgdad than I pray that they at least have weaterh on their side, because dear god, the possibility of terrible causalties on both sides is very high in that type of senario. Most of you would be surpirsed to ehar this, but I was once in our Army reserves, and one of our training exercies was in a door-to-door situation like that. It was the most stressful of any of the training exercises I particpated in. Phyisically, we didn't have to do the long marches in that we had to do on some of our ground exercises, but mentally and emotionally you had to be on a very high alert level. And there is something much more difficult about seeing your enemy at close-range. Most exercises we participated in, you might not get closer than 1000M to your targets, because with good scopes and decent marksmanship, you didn't need to be closer than that. But in an urban situation you might open a door and find 5 or 6 enemy soldiers waiting for you. There are ways to clear the rooms ahead of you - but you also have to be wary of civilans. Anyway, like I said, my experience with that was only limited to training, and very "junior" training at that. I really can't imagine the real thing, and I worry about the American men and women who may have to do the same thing, but for real. I am not doubting their phyisical preparedness, or their resolve, but I really wonder if kids who grew up having it as easy as we in North America have it are emotionally prepared for what might befall them. I know the gear-wise they are vastly superior to the Iraqi's they will be fighting, but better gadgets don't always win. Remember Mogadishu? That's what I think about whenever I think about American soliders fighting in Baghdad, and it breaks my heart. The incident in Mogadishu was a question of a few blocks. Baghdad (as described by Peter Jennings last night) is the size of L.A. AND they have been waiting for this invasion for months now, if not years....I don't want to think about what's underground in that city, or in places around Saddam's place etc.

So I will continue to pray for peace. It appears that that is all that is left for us to do. But I will also continue to question and watch all the governements participating for any trace of a hidden agenda, any sense of conspiracy, or greedy oil motives, precisely because I understand the cost of what they are proposing here, and I am not measuring it in the billions of dollars, but rather in lives...

Love,
Terri

Hi Terri

Thanks for clearing that up for me about the moon. I could not remember which it was. I also heard what you said about the bombing being more intense this time. To think I thought the bombing in the Gulf War was overkill!! Today on the news they said that Saddam Hussein was telling his people to dig foxholes in their yards. Not like that would do them any good. The satellite photos showed trenches being dug all around the country. They pour oil in those trenches and set them on fire hoping the smoke will mess up the guided missles. However, the air force said it won't do any good this time because the new bombs are satellite directed so smoke will not interfere with them hitting their targets. Part of that "rain of fire" they talk about is that new MOAB bomb I spoke of in my post above.

The problem is that Hussein builds his weapons plants and mutnitions sites in neighborhoods where civilians live so that the U.S. can't bomb them. He uses his own people as sheilds so to speak. That is cause for concern.

Another thing that bothers me is that, because so many of the Iraqi soldiers surrendered rather than fight in the Gulf War, Hussein has appointed what they term "stiffers" along with the troops. These stiffers are there to stiffen the reserve of the soldiers with orders to shoot them if they don't fight. This disturbs me. We are going to be killing men who are forced to fight against their will.

I would like to get everyone's opinion concerning the war protesters in Iraq. They are from different countries and they are there in hopes the U.S. will not bomb the grain site. Hussein paid their way there and provided nice living quarters for them with stocked refrigerators. The war protesters say they are not there for Hussein but to try and protect the innocent people of Iraq. But I think they are being used by Hussein. Our government says it makes no difference if they are there. If they want to put themselves in harms way it is their decision. However, the UN is saying that the U.S., knowing those protesters are there could be tried for war crimes if they bomb that area. I believe in freedom of speech and protesting but I don't know about this. To me it seems that what they are doing, though their intentions are good, is kind of treasonous. So I was wondering what everyone else here thought about this particular protest.

I would have never guessed you were in the Army reserves, Terri LMAO I agree with you that face to face like that, and not knowing what is behind each door is a whole different kind of war. Very frightening and lots more deaths. That is the kind of war that was fought in Viet Nam.

Love, Connie

Hi Pisces

The question you asked regarding an attack on Capitol Hill was a good one. I had not thought of that. Here is the answer to your question that I found on the net from USA Today :

Government tries to keep branches unbroken
Continuity of Supreme Court, Congress, presidency mulled
By Andrea Stone, USA TODAY


WASHINGTON -- When the nation's terror alert was raised to its second highest level on Feb. 7, government officials warned that terrorists might target the sites they missed Sept. 11. Tops on the list: the U.S. Capitol, widely believed to have been the target of United Flight 93 before it crashed into a Pennsylvania field.

Just 10 days before the alert was raised, nearly all the nation's leaders had crowded into the Capitol for President Bush's State of the Union address. The presence of the president, vice president, Senate and House members, Supreme Court and Cabinet reminded Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., of what went through his mind at his first such event in 1981: A Soviet submarine off the coast could launch a nuclear warhead that would vaporize all three branches of the federal government in 13 minutes.

"I got very nervous. The whole government was there," Specter recalls. "It's a real problem."

But 17 months after terrorists attacked Washington and New York, few changes have been made to ensure that the government could function if most of its members were killed or incapacitated. The House passed three minor rules changes in January; a "Continuity of Government" commission is set to recommend more options next month to safeguard against chaos after a terrorist strike.

"We're not talking about a theoretical problem anymore or a Tom Clancy novel," says Norman Ornstein, a senior adviser to the commission. "We're talking about real, tangible risks in a setting where the history of al-Qaeda is that if they miss a target, they come back at it. It's just not responsible to fail to act."

The commission is expected to recommend a constitutional amendment that would pave the way for legislation letting governors fill House vacancies in a disaster. It also may urge that governors be placed in the presidential line of succession, to provide continuity in the executive branch if most of Washington is destroyed. And it may promote a process for filling Supreme Court vacancies under dire circumstances.

The House has mostly avoided making contingencies for its own demise. Several bills for constitutional amendments and laws to address the issue languished in the previous Congress. A proposal to establish an "e-Congress" that would allow members scattered across the country to conduct business also went nowhere.

Scholars like Ornstein worry about a "hole in the Constitution" that leaves the government vulnerable if there are mass vacancies or incapacitated members. The issue is critical in the House, where the Constitution only allows vacancies to be filled by special election. It takes an average of four months to hold a special election. The Senate, by comparison, can be quickly replenished with temporary appointments by governors.

If more than 217 House members were killed or incapacitated in an attack, the House would be unable to reach a quorum and could be paralyzed for months. In a little-noticed move last month, the House changed three rules to help it function after a catastrophic attack. The most significant would allow the speaker of the House to change the number of House members from 435 to the number still living after an attack. That would solve the quorum problem and allow the House to convene even if only a tiny number of members survived. But many critics question whether such a rule is constitutional.

"The House rules are not enough," says former White House chief of staff Leon Panetta, a member of the commission studying the issue. "It's good to have the ability to adjust the quorum, but if you only have a handful of members left, that really is not representative of our democracy."

Panetta and other commission members support allowing governors to appoint temporary members to the House until special elections can be held. The move requires amending the Constitution. Rep. Brian Baird, D-Wash.; Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif.; and Specter each have proposed an amendment to the Constitution that would give governors such power if more than one-fourth of House members were killed or unable to serve. None of the bills has made it out of committee.

Another issue is presidential succession. The Constitution says that the vice president takes over if the president cannot serve. After that, the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 says the next in line are the House speaker; the president pro tempore of the Senate; and Cabinet secretaries, beginning with the secretary of State. Because all are based in Washington, the commission is expected to recommend including governors.

Some question whether the presidency should be allowed to shift to another political party, as is possible under the current arrangement. Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif., has proposed a law that would guarantee that the president's political party stays in power. Others say the Senate president pro tempore, the most senior member of the majority party, should not be in the lineup because of potential age and frailty. Ornstein recommends streamlining the line of succession to include only the top four Cabinet secretaries -- State, Treasury, Defense and attorney general -- and having the president add six governors to the list.

But Rep. Bob Ney, R-Ohio, chairman of the House administration committee, says major action has only a 50-50 chance of passing. To spur significant action, he says, "it may take another attack."

http://www.usatoday.com/educate/college/polisci/articles/20030223.htm

Love, Connie

Connie and Pisces

I don't mean to be deliberatly vauge - but I remember reading alot about this post 9-11, and there are some scary theories out there about what may have been planned for in the wake of a terrible disater that devastates your three branches of govn't - like the nuke senario mentioned above, or a terrorist attack at somethin like the State of the Union address. I haven't got time to go through my info again and make a post that would contain what I would call reliable information, or an informed opinion. BUT - if you do searches on the web using phrases like "Shadow Government" and/or search out that term on Alex Jones site ( www.infowars.com), Cloak and Dagger site or David Icke's site, you may find some informaiton about what they believe the outcome of a senario like that would be. Frankly, it's chilling...

And as I said - I don't necessarily belive any of what you might find out there, I just remember reading stuff about that phrase "Shadow Government" and wondering what truth might lie in these guy's allegations.

Love,
Terri

Hello Lovely People,
I wanted to add a little more ingrediants to the soup of knowledge and discussions.
Some of my ingredients may irratate the taste buds, but I hope not.

What is the biggest cost in a War?
Who benifits from War?
Where did Sadamm obtain his biological and nuclear weapons?

I ask those questions because I want to dig some info up on those questions I have.

As Greg mentioned, there is an agenda that plays to both Republican and Democrats. This force behind this agenda likes to operation covertly- the negative use of feminine energy. This force or body of individuals are not dumb. They know how to play on the emotions by using covert activities that produces outward active energy - The male use of energy. They can cause or istigates problems then have the solution waiting in the wings. The system of government is corrupt as well as the system of business. They are married. How?

The following is a true story.

I know a chiropractor and this is a brief story about his experince with democracy.
After graduation, he went to work for a chiropractor he knew prior to graduation. He amired this man. Wanted to learn from him. What did he learn? He learned the true nature of business. The Dr. he worked for was a very magnetic person with lots of knowledge. The Dr. is in a organization that L. Ron Hubbard had started. L. Ron Hubbard started Scientology. Hubbard learned how to conduct business. Business has no heart when it comes to succeeding at any cost even if you have to blackmail someone to do it. This keeps your enemies or potiential enemies at bay. Hubbard took on the IRS. Hubbard would keep files on everyone and so did this Dr. my chiro friend worked for.It protects you from potiential threats.

Also, you use the court system to your advantage. You can bankrupt people via the courts or put them in jail so they have a record. While in jail you would have to pay each day for staying there; however, paying the fee to the jail while staying is unconstitutional. You would have to hire an attorney to fight that situation. The money paid is split between the jailers. With government budgets cuts this is how jailer make an exra income. If you don't pay the fee they will hold you in jail until you pay- with a money order- no checks accepted.

My friend also learned how the Dr. used and manipulated people. The Dr. knew how to "work" people via their emotions. He knew how to work people very well and be successfull. My friend was so stressed while working for him that he decided to buy the practice or leave. The Dr. agreed to sell the practice to my friend. But it was a lie. My friend came back from vaction and the Dr. had locked him out of the office thus losing his job. My friend gave him his resignation effective within 2 months but ended up staying with the office until a month after the deadline and then went on vacation. My friend tried to get unemployment but the Dr. blocked it due to the resignation letter.

A year later, my friend moved back to the same town to practice out of his home. The city ended up puting an injunction on him because of zoning laws. Fortunalty, my friend knew the zoning laws better than the city. He learned from the Dr. about looking at all the rules of the game. Unfortunalty to fight the battle would cost money. $1500.00 for an attorney to take the case and the paperwork etc... Attorney fees eat up money. It was legal for my friend to have a business in his home, but small town politics is the same there as it is around the world.

This system of business is aided by politicians. Call it a marriage or bed buddys- whatever you call it, they are linked. A democracy will eventually fall apart because the majority rules. If you control both sides you can have more covert control. History has shown us that competiton for the "Ruler" or "Caeser" lurks around.

The US is a republic- laws that limit government not the people. If the US sets up a democracy in Iraq or anywhere for that matter, they will do so to suit their needs not the country nor the people. I can give more details concerning this "system" and how it works but it's late and my eyes are tired but I do want to eloborate more.

This "Elite" group uses astrology too. They know the advantages of astrology when conducting their operations.

Woody

Well, Greg and Connie thanks for your prayers and blessings!

I appreciate it!

I would keep you informed about the situation in Kwt, because I'm staying here for sure. Whatever happens I'm staying.

I don't really fear death because it's a natural transition from one state to another, but I do fear being in pain or watching other people suffer, I'm also scared of losing my dear ones, that would be devastating...

I know that I'm a treasured child of God and that he always protects me. I'm in contact with him through my daily prayers and affirmations. They are my daily habit and they do create miracles in my life, talking from experience!

Through my prayers and affirmations I feel intimate with the God and I know that he can hear me.

Just a brief answer to Woody, about who would benefit at the end from this war... millions of Iraqi people, the whole region, the whole world..
You're mentioning the "elite" using the astrology "too"... well, very clever elite! Astrology is a universal language and it's not restricted to one segment of the population.

Peace and Light
El

Hi again Connie!

The human shield anti American and anti war protesters in Iraq are displaying a lot of ignorance and stupidity.

They claim that they want to stop the attacks on civilians.

The group is being led by ex US marine and Gulf war veteran Kenneth Nicholson (33), he "wants to apologize to Iraqi people for what he was doing there the first time in 1991".

What about Iraqi people apologizing to Kuwaiti people for invading them in 1990!!!

Kenneth Nichols and his followers are willing to put their lives on the line to stop the war. Let them, not that I would feel sorry for them.

I think that they are traitors, they are helping a dictator.

Saddam has a long history of using human shields, do you remember in 1991 he was using Kuwaitis and some other foreigners and Iraqis at certain military and industrial sites as human shields.

TRAITORS!!!

Human stupidity always amazes me.

El

Hi All

El, that is sort of how I felt about the whole matter with those protesters in Iraq. They have good intentions but I think that is the wrong way to voice their disapproval of the war. I agree that it should be Hussein who is apologizing for all his crimes against humanity. To me it seems like when you go to an enemy country like that and allow yourself to be used as a sheild during war, you must have a death wish. Also, I see it as treason and Nichols may well be tried for treason after the war, along with any other Americans and British people who are there.

Woody, you made a very good point and I agree with what you said about the "elite". There most definitly is a "marriage" between corporate America and the government. Our government's decisons and policies are based on what benefits corporate America, and as you stated, our government is being run like a corporation with all the ruthless rules that apply there. Case in point; is that in trying to sway UN votes in our favor, those countries holding out or opposed to the war in Iraq are being wooed with phone calls saying, "those who are good to us, we will be good to them." Now to me that sounds like the typical way that corporations conduct business. Also, right now, while the attention of the American people has been directed towards the war (wagging the dog), corporate America is raping the economy of this country. One thing we as Americans have learned is that when the government deregulates anything, saying it will benefit the people better, it turns out to make it cost more for the people and benefit the corporations instead. The government and corporate America have their little covort pact as you said which amounts to the same premise being used to woo the opposing countries in the UN, "you be good to me and I will be good to you, you scratch my back and I will scratch yours." And while I posted it on jwhops thread about the people speaking out, this is as Libertarian candidate, Michael Badnarik stated, democracy in action rather than a Republic form of government. ( http://www.badnarik.org/info/republic.html )

Love, Connie

Dear Moonflower,

Thank you very much for your very helpful reply to my question. I didn't know there was so much current focus on this possibility.

Love,

Hello Eleonora, moonflower and PD,

moonflower- I was thinking of "Wag The Dog" when I was typing my last post.