Very well said Darwin!!!

Hello moonflower

Now you know why I usually vote Republican. It's the democrats who attempt to infringe on private property rights, issues of personal preference, placing more land under management of the government, who assume the people are so stupid they can't make good choices for themselves and generally think they can spend your money more wisely than you can.

Please don't misquote me. I never said the President should listen to anyone, majority or minority. I said the Constitution doesn't require the President to listen to (or take the advice of) groups. I also didn't post that AOL poll for the President to see. I posted it for others here to see who continue to insist there is a plurality of Americans against a war to remove Saddam Hussein. Let me make my thinking clear, the President was elected to be the Chief Executive Officer of the United States and should use his best judgment based on information available to him to formulate policy, domestic and foreign. Period

I find myself in agreement with Michael Badnarik on most issues. However, his take on the reason for laws against the use of drugs is flawed. While liberals may wish to stop people from injuring themselves by drug use, others wish to prevent them from injuring others as well as themselves while under the influence of controlled and mind altering substances. Which highlights another reason I avoid the Libertarians. They are a collection of single issue individuals, most focused on legalizing drugs.

Mr. Badnarik uses the analogy of the 16th Amendment to bolster his arguments but it's obvious he's never studied that issue or he would know that amendment didn't convey to the government any new powers to tax they didn't already have. A previous Income tax amendment was struck down by the Supreme Court in 1894 because among other things it attempted to tax the wages of American citizens. Today, on every tax pamphlet sent to "taxpayers" with the Great Seal of the United States prominently displayed, is the phrase, "our income tax system is based on self assessment and voluntary compliance". IRS Commissioners speak to Congressional committees in terms of finding ways to improve "voluntary compliance".
That which is "voluntary" cannot be "mandatory". The two terms are mutually exclusive.

This is a definition of "Republic": "A government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law".

Now, please show me any other way laws, public policy, domestic policy, foreign policy et al. come into existence in the US that is outside this definition, to support your contention that the US is now a Democracy. That is, if these words and conclusions are yours and not those of Michael Badnarik. Because when I went to the site you linked, the following paragraph wasn't there.

"I say the U.S., as it is governed now and has been for a long time, is a democracy. We need to start correcting that type of double speak from our representatives in government.AND THAT FORM OF GOVERNMENT WE NOW HAVE WHICH IS A DEMOCRACY!!! "

By the way, what's "duck tape"?? I would hate to think someone has invented a special tape to tape their little bills closed to prevent that annoying quacking.

Love,
jwhop

Terri

That's good because there's some places I haven't been--yet

However, you shouldn't confuse undeniable truth with flattery

Love,
jwhop

Hi jwhop,

"Duck tape" is a typo. I meant duct tape. Don't make me get up and come over there, jwhop. And, the last part of that is me saying our government is run more like a democracy than a republic. The gentleman in that article seems to think so as well, his party affiliation aside.

I might also add, the tax system in this country is anything but "voluntary". If it were voluntary I would not be paying my taxes to support the funding of programs I am opposed to. We go to jail for not paying taxes in this country. So you are right, it is hardly voluntary. I would be very much in favor of anything that improves the tax system so that it isn't exclusively the rich and powerful who benefit from tax cuts. What the IRS will most likely do is change the wording on the form.

What you said about the government being able to decide both foreign and domestic policy on their own sounds more like a dictatorship. When they make those policies and decisions it is supposed to be for the good of the people and the country, not for the good of special interest groups and corporate America as it is now, both Democrat and Republican.

Our government sets it's policies based on special interest groups, corporations etc. That must their idea of a republic since special interest groups and lobbyists are the minority. However, those decisions, policies and laws effect us all. I hate to burst your bubble, jwhop, but the President of the United States is not God. I think if God voted he would be a Democrat because that party seems to be more concerned with the average working class, while the Republican party has a nice little caste system going in this country with the rich and powerful.

While you put that poll on to show that some folks from AOL (America Offline or Almost On Line) hold a certain opinion, the virtual march on Washington was a huge success. The Senators, Reps. and the White House recieved over a million calls opposing the war on Wed. That is hardly a minority of the population of the U.S. It was the people exercising the voice that the AOL folk don't they should have.

Love, Connie

Hello moonflower

Thanks for clearing up "duck tape" for me. I thought maybe I'd missed something important. Poor little duckies.

Hey, you're going to like the President's tax reduction plan. Estimates are that it will remove about 32,000,000 people from the tax rolls because they will have no tax liability whatsoever under his plan. Now who says the President's tax plan only gives tax breaks to the rich??

By the way, did you know the top 10% of earners in America pay over 90% of the taxes?

Good God, of course the government sets public policy and writes the laws in America, just like the Constitution requires. And here I thought you were in favor of a Constitutional Republic. Sounds more like you're advocating a direct democracy-----"the vilest form of government" according to the founders.

Say what you will moonflower but the President's Justice Dept is working hard to send some of those "rich and powerful" that you decry to jail.

Yeah, I'm sure God favored democrat Bill Clinton, who raped Juanita Brodrick, sexually assaulted Kathleen Willey in the oval office, committed adultery with Jennifer Flowers and showed a shocking lack of knowledge about cigar etiquette with Monica, committed what amounted to perjury and lost his license to practice law, bombed Iraq without UN authorization, bombed Serbia for 78 days without UN authorization and traded missile and nuclear technology to China for campaign contributions. All well documented and on the public record and yet you accuse President Bush without a shred of documentary evidence. You ever feel a little unbalanced politically?

Uhhhh, gee how to explain this to you. The population of the US is about 285,000,000. So you say 1 million called the White House (where did you get that figure by the way?) to protest the war that isn't. I would say that a ratio of 285 to 1 is a definite minority. I'd also like to see that call list. We know from election investigations that democrats vote early and often and also vote for the dead.
Most of those calls probably came from one staffer at the Workers World party with a computer dialer and a couple of different recorded outgoing messages.

Love,
jwhop

Hi jwhop

I must have had ducks on my mind when I referred to it as duck tape twice in that post. I like the duckies. I would never dream of taping their little bills shut.

You remind me of my friend who is a staunch Republican. I doubt God approved of Clinton, however I was talking about the Democrat Party on the whole, not one individual. If we are going to discuss individuals I always have Nixon to remind you about. At least a Democrat president never had to resign to avoid impeachment because his administration was so corrupt. Not, in recent times anyway. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican because I don't vote for a party. They are interchangable anyway. I vote for who I believe to be the less of two evils. Only choice we really have in this country any more.

Regarding the proposed tax cuts of the Bush administration, rather it also grants the average working class any tax relief or not ( and I am skeptical about that) you don't truly think those tax cuts will come into existance after this war in Iraq do you? In a sagging economy, with high unemployment and a war? Who is going to pay for this war?
There are those in the business news that are questioning that. (http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2002/nf20021213_2149.htm)

As for where I got the million figure regarding the virtual march on Washington last Wed., I got it from ABC news, though admittedly I have heard two figures now from ABC news. On the TV news they said a million calls, faxes and emails due to the virtual march, but on their web site it says 400,000. I am in favor of protest, Americans voicing their opinions regarding war or anything else. I am not in favor of what the protesters who are in Iraq are doing. To me, that seems treasonous. Along the same lines as what Jane Fonda did during the Viet Nam war. It is carrying protest a bit to far in my opinion. So you see, while I may seem liberal in certain views, I can be conservative in other views. I think it is that way with everyone. I am just looking for areas that you might be liberal in, jwhop.

Love, Connie

Hello moonflower

Quack, quack

Please permit me to remind you of some things you probably already know.
Woodrow Wilson, 1917 World War One--Democrat
Franklin D Roosevelt, 1941 World War two--Democrat
Harry S. Truman, Korean War, 1950--Democrat
John F. Kennedy, Vietnam War, 1961--Democrat
Lyndon B. Johnson, Vietnam War, 1964--Democrat

Facts are such pesky things.

Whoops, now you've really done it moonflower. Bringing up corruption, Republican Vs Democrat. History and historians have already spoken to that subject. Bill Clinton was the most corrupt President to ever sit in the White House---among the other things he did there. Read all about it here and see that Bill Clinton beat Richard Nixon out for the top honor of most corrupt:
http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/historians/moral.asp

And in case you're wondering who those historians and Presidential watchers were who voted Clinton most corrupt, you can find that here:
http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/participants.asp

We better have those tax cuts if we want to spur spending in the business community, increase job production and raise tax revenues to get rid of the budget deficits. That's what happens every time tax cuts go into effect. The tax rates go down and tax revenues to the Federal Government go up---dramatically. If you're interested in facts, you might check here for results of tax cuts to increase Federal Revenues. Of course if we then turn the Democrats loose with their pens ready to sign checks for every one of their crackpot schemes that do nothing but keep their constituents dependent on government handouts, then they will quickly spend all those additional revenues and more. That's what eventually happened to the increased revenues from the Kennedy and Reagan tax cuts.
http://www.mackinac.org/article.asp?ID=48

With all due respect to Business Week, some investors use their predictions to either enter the stock market or pull out. Whatever Business Week says, investors do just the opposite because Business Week seems to always get it wrong. I'm with the investors in that when it comes to economics, Business Week, Time et al. couldn't find their rears with both hands.

Glad to hear my refusal to watch ABC news vindicated. They can't seem to get it together either. I'm all for citizen protests on issues of importance to them. I'm just not in favor of lending my voice or support to those whose wish to overthrow our system of government, A.N.S.W.E.R., the Workers World Party and Ramsey Clark being the prime examples in the "so called" peace marches.

You want to see my liberal credentials? OK, how about this? I'm in favor of juries being permitted to award plaintiffs ANY amount in suits for malpractice or any other personal injury suit. I'm also in favor of limiting attorneys fees to a max of $200,000 plus provable expenses no matter how large the jury award for the plaintiff(s) may be.

I'm also in favor of repealing the 16th and 17th Amendment to the US Constitution and the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.

And limiting the value of stock options for corporate executives to no more than 20% of their annual salary and at the strike price of the company stock on the day the option is issued to the executive. For example, salary $1,000,000. Max value of stock options given, $200,000 on day of issue. Company stock selling at $100 per share= 20 options (each option is equal to 100 shares of stock) with a strike price of $100 per share. In order for executives to make money on their options, they would have to add some value to their companies, i.e., improve the earnings of the company, which raises the value of it's stock and also raises the value of their options.

Love,
jwhop

Hi jwhop,

I checked out the sites you gave me. Clinton might be on the bottom for personal morality but look where he is regarding economic management. Clinton is number five on the list. As for Democrats writing the checks for their causes in helping the underprivileged in this country and the world, I would say that is for a good cause. Also facts being pesky as they are, I remind you that Clinton balanced the budget while in office (giving Bush all kinds of spending money and he has run up a deficit already) and the Republicans couldn't balance the budget in all twelve years they were in office under Reagan and Bush Sr. Also homelessness never existed in this country until Reagan was elected for two terms.
http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/historians/economic.asp


What I spoke about regarding the Democratic Party doing more for the working class people,in the category of Pursuing Justice for All, seven out of ten on the top of the list are Democrats.
http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/historians/justice.asp

Now putting all that aside, we have had some good Democratic presidents and we have had some good Republican presidents. We have had some bad ones from both parties as well. Incidentally, I voted for Dole.

I like your liberal credentials. I think it was Shakespeare who coined the phrase "first kill all the lawyers." But if we did that we wouldn't have anyone in government.

Connie

ooooooo Connie!

Jane Fonda.....oh I remember that well......now THAT was treason.

Reagan also gave us e-coli! Thats a biggie.

Who had ever heard of it before the meat inspectors were tossed with the giblets?

Now you can't eat cookie dough anymore.....
I know it sounds pretty trivial in comparison...but you know,...it really pisses me off.

And since I am obviously too tired and emotionally drained to have anything more worthwhile that THAT petty little observation....I will bid you both Good Night.

It DOES piss me off tho'....My girls and I make a lot of cookies.....

and Peace! Dani

BTW....it might be easier math for the two of you to come up with a list of presidents who were both moraly upright, and financial wizards , along with being gracious diplomats.

It might save a lot of time...since THAT list is so short.

I've got Lincoln...after that....well I'm stumped.

Dani

I thoht making the dough was the easy part?
If you add just a little milk to Magix cereal in a blender it comes out like cookie dough.
I haven't baked any yet, though.

You can cross Lincoln off your list. The expert on Bill Moyer's Now program was saying how Abe used more executive overrides than Chevy has parts.

He wanted to (and did) arrest anyone that disagreed with him.
At one time he wanted to arrest the whole Senate of Maryland.

I wish I were President. I would move the Capital to British Columbia.
It's like a district. BC DC what's the difference?
I just know I could make better use of the Yacht.

I think if we made a list regarding the presidents with all the "right stuff" the list would be non-existent.

I eat the cookie dough, Dani. To me cookie dough is worth the risk.

Proxy, if I were president everyone else would move to British Columbia.

Love, Connie

BC's a pretty town..... what a view, eh?

Connie...I still eat the dough too.....but I won't let the girls eat it...which is incredibly mean...but if I poisoned them...I'd never forgive Reagan...and the guy is pretty sick.

Prozy...re: Honest Abe....


party pooper!

So who would you pick?

Jefferson's out......since he cheated on his wife too......

and Peace! Dani