Hi El,

It is me this time.

Terri had posted this same story back on March 27 in her thread titled The Forgotten People . The story did not come from Counterpunch but from a documentary show in Toronto called The Fifth Estate where this HISTORICAL FACT that Ginny posted was discussed. There is also much additional information at Terri's thread The Forgotten People .

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/kurds/index.html

No, this does not come as a shock to me at all. Politics is politics and I have said this more than once in these threads that it the governments who name the enemy of the day or year to us. The government tells us who are friends and enemies are and as I have stated before, the friends of today may be our enemy in the future ( that might even include Kuwait if the government should decide for some reason that your country is our enemy ) so why buy into that crap? Why let the government tell you who your friend or enemy is at this time? A definite enemy would be one who attacked your country first. There is no evidence that has been presented to this date that Iraq had anything at all to do with the terrorist attack on the WTC on 9/11. If the Bush administration comes up with concrete proof that Hussein was involved in that attack then I would be the first to admit that the Iraq war was justified. But I haven't seen that evidence as yet. So I am not blindly following my government officials, especially when they have done so many questionable things in the past regarding the Middle East. Also when I know it is a fact that George W. Bush met with the Taliban leaders at his ranch in Texas when he was the Governor of that State and tried to cut an oil deal with them. The Taliban refused the deal. Then GW gets appointed, not elected by the vote, as President of the U.S. and the next thing you know we are at war against the Taliban and oust that government. The first thing we did when the Taliban was ousted is build an oil pipeline and appoint as head of Afghanistan an arab who used to be an executive at Enron. A puppet government, if you will. So yes, I question the Bush administrations real motives for invading Iraq and ousting Hussein. We were not concerned his having chemical warfare when he was an ally against Iran and using those chemicals on the Iranian people. We did not care that he was as much a dictator and tyrant to his people at that time as he was now. And when we took over Iraq we saved and protected those oil wells, but allowed the libary and the museum to be destroyed. That enough would proof to most people of what they were really there for. Come on, GW is an oil man. His friends who paid for his election are oil men and Corporate executives.

I am not being argumentative El, I like you, but I will point out an inconsistency in your thinking. You have stated in these forums that you do not like organized religions because you do not follow blindly any religious leader or teaching, yet you seem to follow blindly governments. You do not question governments nor do you like it when anyone else does. That is an inconsistency in thinking. I don't follow either the Pope or governments blindly. The proof of that fact is that I am at this site. The Roman Catholic Church is very much opposed to astrology. They see it as an evil cult. However, I keep my mind open about astrology. I reason that since God created the universe, the stars and planets and humankind, and since we are made up of the same chemical elements as the stars and planets, I do not see that there would not be more of a connection there. As long as I see that God is the creator of it all, I find nothing wrong with keeping an open mind about astrology.

Though I love my country with all my heart and would die for my country if I had to, there is a vast difference between my country and an elected official that I did not even vote for and who will only be around for four to eight years at the most. My country is what is lasting and it has it's roots on something much greater than any of it's elected officials at any given time, the Constitution and a democracy that cannot be duplicated in Kuwait, Iraq or any of the Free World nations. No man is above criticism, not the president, not the Pope or any religious leader, not you nor I. We are Americans by birth, Rainbow, myself and any Native American is moreso, we are Americans by our ancestory and heritage, we pay taxes in the U.S. and we vote for our elected officials. For that reason we have the right, granted to us by the Constitution, to question the authority of the time, the decisions our government makes that effect us, and to point out the corruption and wrong doings of our elected officials. The United States is a government that is run by the people, not the elected representatives, it is government of the people, for the people and by the people. Our representatives are just that, they are there to represent the citizens. A democracy in Kuwait, Great Britain, or any other democratic country is not the same. There is no Constitution like ours in The U.S. The elected officials run the country in those nations, not the people. Here in the U.S. it is different. The people have a say in what goes on. That is something that even a lot of the younger Americans do not know because they have not been taught by teachers what the Constitution represents the way that my generation was taught. Our rights were drilled into us in school. The Constitution was explained throughly.

Also, the fact that the people run this country and have a large say in what goes on in our government means we need to be informed of what is going on in the government. The U.S. depends greatly on a free press, which is also guaranteed in the Constitution. But if we just read one side of the issues and ignore what the other side is saying we cannot properly be informed. Those that filter out anything that disagrees or is contrary to what they hold to be true are not properly informed and largely just blindly follow the government which is no different than blindly following a religious leader or anyone else for that matter. A popular phrase in the 60's was "Question Authority" and one that I highly ascribe to and raised my kids to do as well. To only look at one side of the issue and filter out anything contrary to that is having a closed mind. It is following leaders blindly.

Love, Connie

Hi Ginny

Just wanted to point out that another member of PNAC is the on the board of Northrop, the nations largest supplier of war technology. Someone who would profit greatly by wars.

Yep, we have plenty of reasons to question the Bush administration and this war. Also, as I stated in my thread regarding what was discussed on Nightline on Thurs. evening, the Bush adminstration is beginning to admit openly it's ties with PNAC and that it is implementing the PNAC Plan. Once again William Kristol was on Nightline and is very happy that the Bush administration is following the plan that PNAC could not sell to the Clinton administration. Also the committee investigating the events of 9/11 were formed for a reason. The reason is that there are so many unanswered questions regarding the events of 9/11. Bush had the nerve to suggest to the chair person of that committee that they not "delve too deeply." Hmmmmmm When it all comes out in the open, remember you heard it here first.

Love, Connie

Hi Rainbow, sorry for calling you Moonflower, I know the difference but it was late at night and I was tired.

I know that there are some well intentional leftist in America but they should purge the extreme Left which only criticizes, creates hate and is vilifying America.

Leftist idol Noam Chomsky called America "world's biggest terrorist state"... and some of you like the guy and believe in what he writes. He is an extreme leftist.

Many people here are the enemies of the democratic capitalism. Yeah, you guys blame Bush for everything, that's the easiest way... I blamed the Security Council instead for being completely irrelevant and inactive. So much money is wasted in UN, let them do some real work for a change.

What's wrong if America is the only super power??? Would you rather see Russia or China or some islamic movement taking over the world?

Democracy in Iraq is possible and it would happen. Removal of Saddam was the best thing that could happen to the whole Middle East region.

The future would prove who is right who is wrong. So far the opposition on this site was right about the war, it has happened, it was fast and successful.

The American enemies would never prevail, thank God.

Glad to hear how patriotic you and Moonflower are, bravo!!!

El

Hi Rainbow!

I agree with you, don't believe all that propaganda, leftist or right... use your mind, think about it.

Saddam was financing some terrorist groups and suicide bombers in Israel... there would be a lot of evidence coming out soon, patience... WMD would be discovered too, no doubt in my mind.

It's ok to question your goverment movements, but in a moderate way , without espressing it with hate. It's ok to argue, but without hate...

I definitely do not follow goverments blindly, I'm not a follower type, never was.

But the leftist ideals in my mind would make America a scary place.

Have to run. Have a nice Sunday!
El

Yes it was fast El, as for successful, keep your eyes and ears on the mid-east "peace plan" that Bush has become directly involved in. The writing is on the wall now.
"A plan which will take 3 years to put in place"??

Talk about things falling into place! And now, the American administration will have the use of Iraq for its military bases, as they are moving them from Saudi Arabia. O goody.

As for " some Islamic movement" taking over the world,..hopefully your not confused enough to actually mean Islam, but rather the fanatical islam EXTREMISTS.

Careful..."they" want you to think its truly something to do with Islam.

"The World Health Organization (WHO) says it expects a cholera epidemic in southern Iraq because of problems with poor sanitation.

WHO disease specialist Denis Coulombier estimated that there were 10 times the number of cholera cases than the 17 registered in Basra since Tuesday.

Another WHO official said the organisation "feared hundreds of cases"."

From www.earthchangestv.com

Aries, on the BBC news the other day they talked of the cholera epidemic already taking place in Iraq--- mostly children. They showed a hospital so crowded with dying kids....no beds, just laying lifeless on blankets on the floor with their Mothers devotedly by them in grief and worry......the vision just broke my heart.

Many will say that Bush is making efforts through lifting sanctions, but we know that with or without sanctions the ability to help these children already exists, yet not enough is being done that should.

And then today I read in the paper that Bush has elected Sadam's Baath members into leadership positions into the hospitals and Iraqi doctors are outraged, picketing in the street and "striking", refusing to work in hospitals run by those offiliated with the Baath party.
The justification at this point seems to be that in haste to fill the positions, they are overlooking the men's past affiliations and are only banning the 55 Baath members who were on the "most-wanted" list during the war.

Bush's actions never match his words.

This article was in yesterdays Globe and Mail. It was submitted by Margaret Hassan who runs the CARE headquarters in Baghdad.
-------
From Baghdad: What Iraq really needs


By MARGARET HASSAN
Saturday, May 17, 2003 - Page A23

I am constantly astonished by the public's knowledge gap on Iraq, about how it is now compared to how it used to function.

Iraq was a fairly efficiently run country, albeit the services were mainly provided by government. A case in point is the garbage collection. At the moment, Baghdad's garbage is piling up in the streets. Previously, it was collected every day, but looters stole the garbage trucks.

When I asked the coalition forces what will be done, they replied that they are hiring someone who has 12 garbage trucks. Yet the government owned them all, so if some guy tells you he's got 12 garbage trucks, then he has stolen them and he should be arrested.

It's not like we have thousands of people in soup kitchens, because we don't, but we are responding to situations that have worsened because there was a war.

We have to look at Iraq and remember that Iraq was not a failed country. It had systems, you could get an education, it had a health service, and mothers with newborn babies could take them to a primary health centre and they would get all their vaccinations free of charge.

But we have gone from a situation of control, to no control, and so security is the first and most important thing that has got to be put in place. If not, you'll have other problems, like people not going to work, or children not going to school.

Prior to the 1991 gulf war, Iraq enjoyed a high standard of living, with the majority of the population in a relatively wealthy middle class. With high levels of education, low infant mortality, high levels of access to potable water and sanitation, Iraq was listed as 67th on the United Nations' Human Development Index in 1990. The standard of living depended on oil revenues. When these ceased, and comprehensive UN sanctions were imposed, Iraq rapidly experienced food shortages, and a collapsing infrastructure and economy.

Since the advent of sanctions, most families in Iraq have expended any assets they may once have had. Home appliances, furnishings, heirlooms, rugs and other household items have long since been sold to provide cash for unexpected health needs or other urgent matters. Today, few families in Iraq retain any cash or physical assets other than their home.

CARE began working in Iraq in 1991. Our program focuses on water and sanitation, health and children. We provided supplementary food items and lactose-free milk to 97 pediatric hospitals throughout the centre and south of Iraq. Through this work, we've gained a very good overview of the health status in the different governorates, the conditions in the hospitals and health centres. We know where every single hospital in Iraq is located.

Anyone who tells you that some international organization got the hospitals up and running is not telling the truth. The doctors remained at their places throughout the recent crisis, and we supported them. For example, in one children's hospital, we provided buses so that their staff could be transported to and from work. In anticipation of the war, the former government of Iraq had distributed sufficient medicine for about three months. But they did have shortages such as oxygen regulators, and even basic cleaning supplies, and we also helped with that.

What should we do now?

First, we should not open separate clinics that undermine the local health service. Iraq has a health service that is better than those found in a lot of countries. We need to help that service, and all other services, get back on their feet, and improve their performance.

Second, we have to support the civil administration. Our job is not politics -- we survived 12 years in Iraq because we never meddled in that side of things. That is how we must continue to operate.

Margaret Hassan runs the CARE Iraq office in Baghdad; http://www.care.ca.