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#141680 - 12/27/03 04:56 AM Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming?
Enigmatic Soul Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 207
Loc: St. Walburg Saskatchewan
We are beginning to realize that we are more aware than we used to be. When we thought we were awake, we were really asleep, which is something that is tough to swallow, but at the same time it is a welcome revelation, because it makes us realize that we have things to accomplish and work on. Which is really opening and awakening ourselves up to be able to transform ourselves into something that is a formidable foe to the shadows that lurk in the oceans of the world in which we live. To be able to stand up to the things that are trying to undermine us, and the gift that we have been given, the gift that we are to give others, which is the gift of freedom. The freedom to be who we are. Slowly the tides have been growing, and encompassing the world and our minds little by little, while at first it seemed trivial, just a small wave, but that small wave met up with another wave, and has been growing, while now it is threatening to drown all that comes in its way. The origins of this seem to spawn from the depths of our minds, and though this thought is a bit disturbing, it is still nonetheless our truth. A truth that we must accept, and come to grips with, or mutate into that which we fear. As we are swimming within the void of our minds, this watery presence has within it, shadows that lurk inside and all around us, and is trying to drown us. These shadows are the things that we have spent most of our lives trying to run from, the thing that we ignored, which has slowly tore ourselves a part, are not as they appear. For the fear they reflect is an illusion. For this very fear they try to capitalize on our minds, is actually the fear that they know. Which is as we awaken, and face it, the illusion that at first seemed to control us, by the force of its momentum, fades as the truth begins to surface, the waves, know that we will and are learn(ing) to navigate and control it. We unlike it, will face the music of our darkened past, and grow into something that it cannot be. For we will learn to perceive the things it tries so hard to deceive, and that is of course the truth. For the truth is the ultimate love. It is the one thing that cannot be bent. It can appear to be, by the masters of deception, but that is only a temporary illusion. For the Truth always floats, while the lies always sink. So the secret of the game is to become the truth, to encompass the truth, and as this starts to happen, we realize the pain that has burdened our souls, will be purged into a state of mind that will encompass possibilites that our imaginations simply cannot imagine....
_________________________
I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on men unless they act...

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#141681 - 12/28/03 10:10 AM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Enigmatic Soul]
BlueDove Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 1213
Loc: ~Threshold~


I remember
brazen days of youth
fear- not a thought
in the labyrinth of my mind
Moonlight dips
into ocean waves
without ever imagining
the shadows lurking underneath....

then one day
I found myself
swimming in a shallow lake,
frozen with fear
at what may swim
so close to my being...

crazy, wild imaginings
serpent tongues...
lizard wings....
all those things I couldn't see
were worse than
other's blatent hypocracies.

Alone, it was,
the surface so still.....
it seemed
all movement and life
stirred underneath

How to survive
such
harsh waves of lies

all I could do
was
swim
and
cry.



_________________________
When I speak, I speak from my heart.
When you speak, I listen with my heart.

heart

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#141682 - 12/28/03 05:34 PM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: BlueDove]
Gregory Administrator Offline
Archangel

Registered: 02/20/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: North Bend, WA USA
Beautiful, Lisa.

A little over a hundred years ago, the mountainside where I live, and surrounding areas, were clear-cut for their enormous old-growth Douglas Fir. The crews that took them down wanted only the Fir, but indiscriminately cut down the interspersed Cedars (some many hundreds of years old) to clear the way, leaving them on the ground as they moved on.

Not too far from our cabin is an old mill pond, long abandoned. Floating in that pond are ancient Cedars, some 10 or 15 feet in diameter, that have been floating there for a century. I call it the Cedar cemetery, and it is one spooky place! The water's surface is mirror-smooth, and the fallen giants floating there are still and silent ... but so huge and mighty are they in appearance that I can't escape the feeling that something of their life seethes beneath the surface, angry at the senseless sacrifice of their magnificent bodies so long ago.

I often go there and sit by the side of the pond, now in deep woods and shrouded from civilization, gazing at the eternally floating perished giants with a morbid fascination I am hard put to explain rationally. Logic tells me that no demons or creatures of the Black Lagoon lurk beneath the tranquil waters, making nests in the gnarled branches and underbellies of the silent Cedars ... but you couldn't pay me to take a dip in that pool!

E.S., that was a very thoughtful post, and I think it expresses very well what many of us are encountering these days: as an awakening consciousness slips up on us, we are finding that it is not all liberation and light, but entails a more direct confrontation with the darkness that has underlain the ego-centered model of reality that has held sway unquestioned for so long in the cultures of mankind. While firmly embedded in that consciousness, we didn't have to look too closely at its ugly shadows, but breaking free we find we must confront them more directly, and recognize them for what they are. We'd prefer to just "wish them away," but it ain't gonna happen. In their dying hour, the old institutions of power and control, slavery, heartless exploitation and deception will fight more desperately than ever for survival. And these are the roiling waters in which we must swim ... or sink ... in these awakening times of transition.

The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the faint-hearted!

Love,
Greg
_________________________
LOVE alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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#141683 - 12/31/03 10:08 AM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Gregory]
BlueDove Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 1213
Loc: ~Threshold~
Never underestimate the faint-hearted......
they are the ones who are aware enough
to be the last ones swimming.

Lisa
_________________________
When I speak, I speak from my heart.
When you speak, I listen with my heart.

heart

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#141684 - 01/09/04 06:38 PM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: BlueDove]
Meili Zhiwei Offline
New friend

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 8
Peace.

I arrived here by way of Lindaland, where I have enjoyed a wonderful communion with knowflakes there. I look foward to reading the wonderful contributions of the posters here as well.

I posted this at Lindaland, but I see that it may also be useful for some here.

The Islanders(Idries Shah)


Once upon a time there lived an ideal community in a far-off land. Its members had no fears as we now know them. Instead of uncertainty and vacillation, they had purposefulness and a fuller means of expressing themselves. Although there were none of the stresses and tensions which mankind now considers essential to its progress, their lives were richer, because other, better elements replaced these things. Theirs, therefore, was a slightly different mode of existence. We could almost say that our present perceptions are a crude, makeshift version of the real ones that this community possessed.

They had real lives, not semilives.

We can call them the El Ar people.

They had a leader, who discovered that their country was to become uninhabitable for a period of, shall we say, 20,000 years. He planned their escape, realizing that their descendants would be able to return home successfully, only after many trials.

He found for them a place of refuge, an island whose features were only roughly similar to those of the original homeland. Because of the difference in climate and situation, the
immigrants had to undergo a transformation. This made them more physically and mentally adapted to the new circumstances; coarse perceptions, for instance, were substituted for finer ones, as when the hand of the manual laborer becomes toughened in response to the needs of his calling.

In order to reduce the pain which a comparison between the old and new states would bring, they were made to forget the past almost entirely. Only the most shadowy recollection of it remained, yet it was sufficient to be awakened when the time came.

The system was very complicated, but well arranged. The organs by means of which the people survived on the island were also made the organs of enjoyment, physical and mental. The organs which were really constructive in the old homeland were placed in a special form of abeyance, and linked with the shadowy memory, in preparation for its eventual activation.

Slowly and painfully the immigrants settled down, adjusting themselves to the local conditions. The resources of the island were such that, coupled with effort and a certain form of guidance, people would be able to escape to a further island on the way back to their original home. This was the first of a succession of islands upon which gradual acclimatization took place.

The responsibility of this "evolution" was vested in those individuals who could sustain it. These were necessarily only a few, because for the mass of the people the effort of keeping both sets of knowledge in their consciousness was virtually impossible. One of them seemed to conflict with the other one. Certain specialists guarded the "special science."

This "secret," the method of effecting the transition, was nothing more or less than the knowledge of maritime skills and their application. The escape needed an instructor, raw
materials, people, effort and understanding. Given these, people could learn to swim, and also to build ships.

The people who were originally in charge of the escape operations made it clear to everyone that a certain preparation was necessary before anyone could learn to swim or even take part in building a ship. For a time the process continued satisfactorily.

Then a man who had been found, for the time being, lacking in the necessary qualities rebelled against this order and managed to develop a masterly idea. He had observed that the effort to escape placed a heavy and often seemingly unwelcome burden upon
the people. At the same time they were disposed to believe things which they were told about the escape operation. He realized that he could acquire power, and also revenge himself upon those who had undervalued him, as he thought, by a simple exploitation of
these two sets of facts.

He would merely offer to take away the burden, by affirming that there was no burden.

He made this announcement:

"There is no need for man to integrate his mind and train it in the way which has been described to you. The human mind is already a stable and continuous, consistent thing. You have been told that you have to become a craftsman in order to build a ship. I say, not only do you not need to be a craftsman, you do not need a ship at all! An islander needs only to observe a few simple rules to survive and remain integrated into society. By
the exercise of common sense, born into everyone, he can attain anything upon this island, our home, the common property and heritage of all."

The tonguester, having gained a great deal of interest among the people, now "proved" his message by saying:

"If there is any reality in ships and swimming, show us ships
which have made the journey, and swimmers who have come back!"

This was a challenge to the instructors which they could not meet. It was based upon an assumption of which the bemused herd could not now see the fallacy. You see, ships never returned from the other land. Swimmers, when they did come back, had undergone
a fresh adaptation which made them invisible to the crowd.

The mob pressed for demonstrative proof.

"Shipbuilding," said the escapers, in an attempt to reason with the revolt, "is an art and a craft. The learning and the exercise of this lore depends upon special techniques. These
together make up a total activity, which cannot be examined piecemeal, as you demand. This activity has an impalpable element, called baraka, from which the word 'barque', a ship, is derived. This word means 'the Subtlety,' and it cannot be shown to you."

"Art, craft, total, baraka, nonsense!" shouted the revolutionaries.

And so they hanged as many shipbuilding craftsmen as they could find.

The new gospel was welcomed on all sides as one of liberation. Man had discovered that he was already mature! He felt, for the time at least, as if he had been released from
responsibility.

Most other ways of thinking were soon swamped by the simplicity and comfort of the revolutionary concept. Soon it was considered to be a basic fact, which had never been challenged by any rational person. Rational, of course, meant anyone who harmonized with the general theory itself, upon which society was now based.

Ideas which opposed the new one were easily called irrational. Anything irrational was bad. Thereafter, even if he had doubts, the individual had to suppress them or divert them,
because he must at all costs be thought rational.

It was not very difficult to be rational. One had only to adhere to the values of society. Further, evidence of the truth of rationality abounded, providing that one did not think beyond the life of the island.

Society had now temporarily equilibrated itself within the island, and seemed to provide a plausible completeness, if viewed by means of itself. It was based upon reason plus emotion, making both seem plausible. Cannibalism, for instance, was permitted on
rational grounds. The human body was found to be edible. Edibility was a characteristic of food. Therefore the human body was food. In order to compensate for the shortcomings of this reasoning, a makeshift was arranged. Cannibalism was controlled,
in the interests of society. Compromise was the trademark of temporary balance. Every now and again someone pointed out a new compromise, and the struggle between reason, ambition, and community produced some fresh social norm.

Since the skills of boatbuilding had no obvious application within this society, the effort could easily be considered absurd. Boats were not needed, there was nowhere to go. The
consequences of certain assumptions can be made to "prove" those assumptions. This is what is called pseudo-certainty, the substitute for real certainty. It is what we deal in every day, when we assume that we will live another day. But our islanders applied it to everything.

The words "displeasing" and "unpleasant" were used on the island to indicate anything which conflicted with the new gospel, which was itself known as "Please." The idea behind this was that people would now please themselves, within the general need to
please the State. The State was taken to mean all the people.

It is hardly surprising that from quite early times the very thought of leaving the island filled most people with terror. Similariy, very real fear is to be seen in long-term prisoners who are about to be released. "Outside" the place of captivity is a vague, unknown, threatening world.

The island was not a prison. But it was a cage with invisible bars, more effective than obvious ones ever could be.

The insular society became more and more complex, and we can look at only a few of its outstanding features. Its literature was a rich one. In addition to cultural compositions, there were numerous books which explained the values and achievements of the nation. There was also a system of allegorical fiction, which portrayed how terrible life might have been, had society not arranged itself in the present reassuring pattern.

From time to time instructors tried to help the whole community to escape. Captains sacrificed themselves for the reestablishment of a climate in which the now concealed
shipbuilders could continue their work. All these efforts were interpreted by historians and sociologists with reference to conditions on the island, without thought for any contact outside this closed society. Plausible explanations of almost anything were comparatively easy to produce. No principle of ethics was involved, because scholars continued to study with genuine dedication what seemed to be true. "What more can we do?" they asked, implying by the word "more" that the alternative might be an effort of quantity. Or they asked each other, "What else can we do?" assuming that the answer might be "else", something different. Their real problem was that they assumed themselves able to formulate the questions, and ignored the fact that the questions were every bit as important as the answers.

Of course the islanders had plenty of scope for thought and action within their own small domain. The variations of ideas and differences of opinion gave the impression of freedom of thought. Thought was encouraged, providing that it was not "absurd."

Freedom of speech was allowed. It was of little use without the development of understanding, which was not pursued.

The work and the emphasis of the navigators had to take on different aspects in accordance with the changes in the community. This made their reality even more baffling to the students who tried to follow them from the island point of view.

Amid all the confusion, even the capacity to remember the possibility of escape could at times become an obstacle. The stirring consciousness of escape potential was not very
discriminating. More often than not the eager would-be escapers settled for any kind of substitute. A vague concept of navigation cannot become useful without orientation. Even the most eager potential shipbuilders had been trained to believe that they already had that orientation. They were already mature. They hated anyone who pointed out that they might need a preparation.

Bizarre versions of swimming or shipbuilding often crowded out possibilities of real progress. Very much to blame were the advocates of pseudo-swimming or allegorical ships, mere hucksters, who offered lessons to those as yet too weak to swim, or passages
on ships which they could not build.

The needs of the society had originally made necessary certain forms of efficiency and thinking which developed into what was known as science. This admirable approach, so essential in the fields where it had an application, finally outran its real meaning. The approach called "scientific," soon after the "Please" revolution, became stretched until it covered all manner of ideas. Eventually things which could not be brought within its
bounds became known as "unscientific," another convenient synonym for "bad." Words were unknowingly taken prisoner and then automatically enslaved.

In the absence of a suitable attitude, like people who, thrown upon their own resources in a waiting room, feverishly read magazines, the islanders absorbed themselves in finding
substitutes for the fulfillment which was the original (and indeed the final) purpose of this community's exile.

Some were able to divert their attention more or less successfully into mainly emotional commitments. There were different ranges of emotion, but no adequate scale for measuring them. All emotion was considered to be "deep" or "profound", at any rate more profound than non-emotion. Emotion, which was seen to move people to the most extreme physical and mental acts known, was automatically termed "deep."

The majority of people set themselves targets, or allowed others to set them for them. They might pursue one cult after another, or money, or social prominence. Some worshipped some things and felt themselves superior to all the rest. Some, by repudiating what they thought worship was, thought that they had no idols, and could therefore safely sneer at all the rest.

As the centuries passed, the island was littered with the debris of these cults. Worse than ordinary debris, it was self-perpetuating. Well-meaning and other people combined the
cults and recombined them, and they spread anew. For the amateur and intellectual, this constituted a mine of academic or "initiatory" material, giving a comforting sense of variety. Magnificent facilities for the indulging of limited "satisfactions" proliferated. Palaces and monuments, museums and universities, institutes of learning, theaters and sports stadiums almost filled the island. The people naturally prided themselves on these endowments, many of which they considered to be linked in a general way with ultimate truth, though exactly how this was so escaped almost all of them.

Shipbuilding was connected with some dimensions of this activity, but in a way unknown to almost everyone.

Clandestinely the ships raised their sails, the swimmers continued to teach swimming. . . .

The conditions on the island did not entirely fill these dedicated people with dismay. After all, they too had originated in the very same community, and had indissoluble bonds with it, and with its destiny.

But they very often had to preserve themselves from the attentions of their fellow citizens. Some "normal" islanders tried to save them from themselves. Others tried to kill them, for an equally sublime reason. Some even sought their help eagerly, but could not find them.

All these reactions to the existence of the swimmers were the result of the same cause, filtered through different kinds of minds. This cause was that hardly anyone now knew what a swimmer really was, what he was doing, or where he could be found.

As the life of the island became more and more civilized, a strange but logical industry grew up. It was devoted to ascribing doubts to the validity of the system under which society lived. It succeeded in absorbing doubts about social values by laughing
at them or satirizing them. The activity could wear a sad or happy face, but it really became a repetitious ritual. A potentially valuable industry, it was often prevented from
exercising its really creative function.

People felt that, having allowed their doubts to have temporary expression, they would in some way assuage them, exorcise them, almost propitiate them. Satire passed for meaningful allegory; allegory was accepted but not digested. Plays, books, films, poems, lampoons were the usual media for this development, though there was a strong section of it in more academic fields. For many islanders it seemed more emancipated, more modern or progressive, to follow this cult rather than older ones.

Here and there a candidate still represented himself to a swimming instructor, to make his bargain. Usually what amounted to a stereotyped conversation took place.

"I want to learn to swim."

"Do you want to make a bargain about it?"

"No. I only have to take my ton of cabbage."

"What cabbage?"

"The food which I will need on the other island."

"There is better food there."

"I don't know what you mean. I cannot be sure. I must take my cabbage."

"You cannot swim, for one thing, with a ton of cabbage."

"Then I cannot go. You call it a load. I call it my essential nutrition."

"Suppose, as an allegory, we say not 'cabbage' but 'assumptions,' or 'destructive ideas'?"

"I am going to take my cabbage to some instructor who understands my needs."

Peace.
Meili

PS. To the Moderator. I made an error in registration and would like the user name to be "Meili" rather than "Meile". Is it possible to change this?

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#141685 - 01/10/04 01:10 AM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Meili Zhiwei]
Gregory Administrator Offline
Archangel

Registered: 02/20/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: North Bend, WA USA
Anything's possible, Meili! Welcome to Conscious Evolution.

Thanks for that illuminating allegory. For anyone not familiar with Idries Shah, he is probably the best-known Sufi writer/teacher in the Western world (Sufism is the mystical branch of Islam.)

The most difficult prison from which to escape is the one with invisible bars, ain't it the truth!

Love,
Greg
_________________________
LOVE alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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#141686 - 01/10/04 02:29 AM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Gregory]
Ani * Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 2058
Loc: India
Welcome to CE, Meili .

Was wondering if you've also read Kahlil Gibran?
_________________________
Ani http://crosswordplay.wordpress.com

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#141687 - 01/10/04 02:58 AM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Meili Zhiwei]
Rainbow Offline
Archangel

Registered: 04/23/99
Posts: 5718
Loc: Michigan Indian Reservation


Meili...so nice to have you join us....

Love,
Rainbow


Attachments
141639-welcome being written out.gif (13 downloads)

_________________________
Let there be peace on earth We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. - Mattie Stepanek

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#141688 - 01/10/04 10:31 AM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Meili Zhiwei]
EagleOverTheSea Online   content
Archangel

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 4259
story, Meili! Thanks for sharing with us And welcome to CE
_________________________

Don't be so open-minded your brains fall out.

- Some unknown soul who realises the need for balance ;\)

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#141689 - 01/12/04 05:59 PM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Ani *]
Meili Zhiwei Offline
New friend

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 8
Peace Gregory, Ani, Rainbow and Eagle.

Thank you all for your kind welcome.

Ani.
I am very fond of Kahlil Gibran. Many languages and many voices often are singing the same song eh?

Peace
Meili


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#141690 - 01/14/04 08:05 AM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Meili Zhiwei]
juniperb Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 345
Hi Meili, it`s twice as nice to see it written here

Welcome to C.E. and to some of the most loving souls on the planet

My cabbage is simmering and I`m awaiting the full boil.

Love, juniperb

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#141691 - 01/14/04 04:29 PM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: juniperb]
Meili Zhiwei Offline
New friend

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 8
My Dear Friend Juniperb!!

How nice to "see" a familiar "face"! I have another story about boiling cabbage that I will try to type out later. It is quite nice and illustrates what community effort can achieve.

Love
Meili

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#141692 - 01/15/04 07:43 AM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Meili Zhiwei]
juniperb Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 345
As always Meili, I look forward to your next post!! Cabbage is one of my favorite foods so the allegory seems so appropriate. I eat it willingly and should be more discriminate as to how it`s 'prepared', which 'seasonings' increase the taste and it`s 'digestablility'. The truth of it would be in the weight gain or lack of...

juniperb

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#141693 - 01/15/04 11:08 PM STONE SOUP for Juniperb [Re: juniperb]
Meili Zhiwei Offline
New friend

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 8
Peace my Friend Juniperb.

Stones or Cabbage, they both will make you sink when swimming. However, they do have some uses if combined and "cooked" properly. So let us not be too eager to shed the human aspects of this existence.

Once upon a time, somewhere in Eastern Europe, there was a famine in the land. People were hoarding their food and hiding it from their friends and neighbors. One day, three old women came rolling into a village and began asking questions as if they meant to stay the night. All the villagers told them there was nothing to eat in the entire province.

"We have most everything we need," said the old women. "In fact, we were thinking of making Stone Soup and sharing it with all of you."

They pulled a big cauldron off their wagon and built a fire under it right in the middle of town. Then, with great ceremony, they drew an ordinary looking stone from a ordinary looking bag and dropped it into the water.

Soon the rumor of food had spread throughout the village. Many began to show up in the square to watch. As the sages began to sniff at the broth and lick their lips in anticipation, hunger and belief began to win over skepticism.

"Ahhh," one crone said rather loudly, "I do love this Stone Soup. Of course, Stone Soup with a little cabbage is hard to beat."

Soon a villager approached hesitantly, holding a cabbage he'd retrieved from its hiding place. He gave it to the crones to add to the pot. "Wonderful!" cried the crone, "I once had some Stone Soup with cabbage which had some onions in it that made it fit for a king!"

Soon a second villager appeared with some onions and garlic for the soup and on it went, through "If only we had a few potatoes...How wonderful it might be with a couple of carrots" and so on. At last, there was a delicious meal for all. The villagers offered the crones a great deal of money for the magic stone, but they refused to sell it and traveled on the next day. They probably made Stone Soup at then next village, too. Soon the famine ended but the people of the village always reminisced about the finest soup they'd ever had.

Peace and Love
Meili

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#141694 - 01/16/04 09:01 PM Re: STONE SOUP for Juniperb [Re: Meili Zhiwei]
EagleOverTheSea Online   content
Archangel

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 4259
lol. I'd read the stone soup story when I was a kid. Only in that version it was stone porridge or something like that.
_________________________

Don't be so open-minded your brains fall out.

- Some unknown soul who realises the need for balance ;\)

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#141695 - 01/17/04 12:21 PM Re: STONE SOUP for Juniperb [Re: Meili Zhiwei]
juniperb Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 345
Meili, the story made me laugh with delight as the wise Crones .

Yet on the other hand, can`t the same power of suggestion/faith be used in an other direction? I mean like preachers using the bible to persuade the mass`s of their place in hell so to be happy and saved like s/he, to follow them

I don`t think I ask that quite clear so I`m hoping you get the general drift

juniperb

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#141696 - 01/17/04 02:54 PM Re: STONE SOUP for Juniperb [Re: juniperb]
Meili Zhiwei Offline
New friend

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 8
My Friend Juniperb.

Of course you would pick up a less obvious aspect of the story! Like most teaching stories, this one too is multi layered and more contemplation reveals more information. Just because I called them wise does not mean that they are, and they could very well be manipulators. Human tendencies are usually predictable, but the "good" or "bad" outcome depends on those who are "manipulating" or "teaching", and you will note that there are few who would use those last two words in the same sentence

So, until we can Learn properly, we are almost always taught through some sort of manipulation. It is the only way we know. We are taken to the shallow end of the pool, taught some swimming and then we paddle around. We think we are swimming, but the water is shallow. The test of the swimmer is when he is thrown in the deep ocean. HA! Then we see how much the student has "Learned" If panic sets in, or other severe emotions, the swimmer needs a rescue operation. If, however, the student remembers the lessons and applies them, well, perhaps we have a potential marathon swimmer!!

You have pointed out an aspect of the most current story that is guaranteed to upset the general population. Most wish to believe that they are strong swimmers and "independent thinkers", capable of making "independent decisions" all on their own. We are all delusional in this aspect. We are all conditioned and conditioning can only be fought with counter conditioning, at least in the beginning. This story may have a part two that is "assumed". There were those who wanted to "buy" the rock and the women would not sell it. What the story does not say is that there were also two people who asked the pertinent question "How do I make stone soup?". These two traveled on with the women to other cities and learned the Art of Serving (Stone Soup).

So, for those that are attached to their "things" (food, whatever), there was service and assistance. For those who wished to serve, there was discipleship. Of course, as you point out, the entire story changes if the women are charlatans and use a block of lead for the soup, pretending it is a stone. In that scenario, all the villagers are poisoned.

Many thanks to you my Friend! I enjoyed it tremendously!

Peace and Love.
Meili

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#141697 - 01/21/04 10:24 AM Re: STONE SOUP for Juniperb [Re: Meili Zhiwei]
juniperb Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 345
Hi Meili, you made me again. My mom always shook her head and said ' only you would see/ask that". I`m trying to soul see between the layers. Not always what sounds, appears or even feels right. The adage 'truth hurts' has been a given in my seeking.

Any wisdom to share on learning properly

I too, am sometimes refered to as a hippie and it`s wonderful company I have sharing that space in time with you!!

juniperb

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#141698 - 01/21/04 08:17 PM Re: STONE SOUP for Juniperb [Re: juniperb]
Meili Zhiwei Offline
New friend

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 8
Peace Friend Juniperb.

In terms of learning properly, there is of course, a great irony at work here. If you are asking "how shall I learn", then you have already mastered 90% of the process! The other 10% you also already Know since Truth does indeed "hurt". So, in all we might describe you as "he who knows and doesn't know that he knows".

With respect to our friend on the other board and his insistence that I am male (i.e. he referred to me as "brother") and a "hippie", I take both as true. This New Age insists that there is always some truth in everything and that is correct. However, the difference between a student and a theoretician is that the student applies Knowledge while the theoretician formulates true constructs. So, much of the rambling of our mutual friend was "true" in many respects, but not necessarily "applied". Those who can apply, can accept all true things, while those who can only theorize will only accept their own true things.

Looking over this writing and in imminent danger of being accused of vagueness, I shall offer an example from this recent exchange.

At random, there were a few truths that our friend used to describe me.

1. I am male
2. I am a "hippie"
3. There was an operation of the ego present in my writings.

First, all who walk a Path to annihilation must integrate male and female energies. If born male, they must integrate the female. If born female, they must integrate the male. In either case, there is a point where, except for physical appearance, there is little distinction between the two. Thus, we do not say the Christ was a "male" Teacher, we say he was a "Teacher". By the same token, in other Traditions, women saints and Teachers were given traditionally male titles and honorifics. This is not an issue of sexism, as some would say. Male and female, masculine and feminine, passive and active are essential elements of the duality of existence. To strive for One is to transcend duality. To transcend duality is to integrate duality. So, our friend identified me as "male", a true thing. But this truth was of no benefit to him since he could not use the Knowledge or apply the Knowledge.

Second, the "hippie" movement had some quite specific roots. These roots are legitimate and were from strong Traditions steeped in the Knowing of the Sages and Saints. Whatever it subsequently became is irrelevant, I am a part of what was, what is and what will be. So, our friend's use of the term "hippie" to greet me was entirely appropriate, although, again, the Knowledge did not benefit him.

Third, the ego is always present. Perhaps the form changes as we evolve, but the identity does not. So, although our friend may not be able to describe my ego, he was quite correct in saying that it is present. Again, it was a true thing, but not a truth that could be applied or accrue benefit.

I do hope my explanation has not exhausted your patience my Friend! But at least I shall not be guilty of vagueness eh?

Peace and Love
Meili

PS. Send me a note privately and we can chat more about "Learning How to Learn" oriontriquetra@yahoo.com



Edited by Meili Zhiwei (01/21/04 08:25 PM)

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#141699 - 01/22/04 08:56 AM Re: STONE SOUP for Juniperb [Re: Meili Zhiwei]
juniperb Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 345
Thank you Meili, will do!

juniperb

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#141700 - 01/22/04 07:30 PM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: BlueDove]
Chahldean Offline
Old hand

Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 945
Loc: Everywhere I've Ever Been.


How fortunate We are to read these Words E.S., Greg and You have shared here Lisa. My Eyes devoured every Word.
The invoking imagery...has me stunned looking for some response. But the only thing I can say is thank You all.

I am glad You are out there feeling my thoughts.


_________________________

Be Cool. Stay Loose.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12

Ancora Imparo

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#141701 - 01/24/04 10:11 PM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Chahldean]
moonflower Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1890
Loc: USA
Wow, there is an awful lot to absorb on this thread. Let me know if I got it or not.

To attempt to concise it all, fear is the enemy within. For it is our fears that prevent us from even making the attempt. To not make the attempt at something new or even question anything new prevents us from growing and changing. And we cannot get anywhere as long as we cling to old baggage that only drags us down. Impossible to be a "swimmer" if you are carrying around that kind of heavy load.

The analogy I draw is of a fishbowl that most of us spend our lives living in. It is a fishbowl of our own creation fashioned out of our fears. This analogy is one that comes from years and years of listening to the lyrics of Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here." In Roger Waters lyrics he says, "We're just two lost souls swimming 'round a fishbowl year after year. Running around the same old ground, what have we found? The same old fears!" Roger Waters had it figured out. All we're ever going to find in the fish bowls we create and choose to live in are the same old fears because unless we make the attempt to break free of that fishbowl and try something new we will remain paralyzed by those same old fears. We do nothing to prove to ourselves that the fears can be conquered or that the fears were never real to begin with but only an illusion of our own creation. Trouble is those fishbowls get way too comfortable after a while. Most people prefer the comfort of the fishbowl to the risks of the uncertain. We don't like anything that pushes us beyond our comfort zones. I have attempted things that have pushed me beyond my comfort zones and it is a real uneasy feeling. Makes me want to run back to my fishbowl.

We humans speak of truth a lot. What is truth? I have my truths and you have your truths. There is only ONE ABSOLUTE truth. Any other truth is up for debate. I think we should even question our own beliefs and do it often.

Loved all of your thoughts and ES this is a very thought provoking post. Lisa I second what Greg said. Meili I liked the stories. You are a great addition to the group here at CE. Welcome. Chahlie, I would be honored to feel just one thing that you are feeling.

Love, Connie

P.S. ES, I'm doing a bit of both. Swimming and sinking and then diving back in to take another stab at it.


Edited by moonflower (01/24/04 10:12 PM)
_________________________
Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous...Einstein

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#141702 - 01/26/04 09:52 PM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: Gregory]
Meili Zhiwei Offline
New friend

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 8
Peace Gregory.

I have been meaning to return to this note but time has taken wing lately! I wanted to clear some potential misunderstanding in your clarification

You said
"For anyone not familiar with Idries Shah, he is probably the best-known Sufi writer/teacher in the Western world (Sufism is the mystical branch of Islam.)"

Some would argue that Sufism is not at all related to Islam. For that perspective, research the followers of Hezrat Inyat Khan. Few, if any, would claim to be Muslim. Intellectual Sufism is rooted in Islamic theology, but the more "heart" expressions come from many Traditions.

Finally, Islam cannot be described as having "branches" in the same way we see Christianity has "branches". Certainly Sufism is not a "branch" of anything

Peace.
Meili

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#141703 - 01/26/04 09:56 PM Re: Are you sinking? Or Are you Swimming? [Re: moonflower]
Meili Zhiwei Offline
New friend

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 8
Peace Connie.

Thank you for the kind welcome. I enjoy being here with all of you.

Peace.
Meili

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