Hi everyone! Hi Greg!
I want to use this way of looking at the evolutionary drive jn this lifetime but I'm now confused as regards to which house system to use! I normally use Placidus, but I've started to wonder if I've picked the right system. Should I use equal house instead?

5 mins later... It doesn't really matter because everything is in the same house in my chart whether I use placidus or equal!

Kelly thanks so much for typing all that out for Pluto in 4th

But it doersnt really match with my life thus far

Oh, and it's Suchi who has Saturn conjunct Jupiter, not me My saturn and jupiter are 6 / 8

Hi Ani,

You are welcome. He did go into many different senerios as to how Pluto in the 4th could manifest, but as I said, there were so many pages, and examples, that I just typed mainly the stuff he put fourth in the beginning of this section. Sorry what I put up didn't resonate with you so far.

So it was Suchi then... OK, I was thinking after I typed that that it may have been Suchi.

Hi Jenn

I'm back to share with you about Pluto in the 1st house.

PLUTO IN THE FIRST HOUSE OR ARIES

"Pluto in any angular house of sign shows that a new evolutionary cycle is beginning. This means that a whole evolutionary cycle has come to a close. Pluto in the First House or Aries will thus correlate to an individual who will feel that they have a special destiny to fulfill. They will feel this sense of special destiny on a very instinctual basis. This sense is based on the fact that there is a new evolutionary cycle beginning for them. The first tenative steps to develop and actualize this new cycle have begun in the most recent prior lives for these individuals.

Since these people have begun a new evolutionary cycle in the very recent past, they will need, and gravitate to, independence and freedom in this life. These individuals will likely be self-centered and somewhat narcissistic in
early life. Primary allegiance and identity is with themselves. They have, and will desire, freedom and independence to initiate and fulfill any desire or experience they deem necessary, because experience is the vehicle through which they discover or become who and what they are. This emphasized need for freedom and independence is compulsive, because the new evolutionary cycle that they have embarked upon is so instinctual. There is an intense sense of personal self-discovery that is felt at every moment. In other words, something new could be discovered or realized at any time. Because this sense of self-discovery is linked to that which is to come. Thus, the sense of a special destiny that is waiting to be discovered demands essential independence and freedom. These individuals must be free enough to pursue whatever experience comes their way in order to realize or discover something about themselves that they did not know before. It is the instincutal attraction to the immediacy of a potential experience that serves as the vehicle through which this sense of special destiny and self-discovery can be realized.

The evolutionary intent has been, and is, to find out something new and unique about oneself. This evolutionary pressure sets in motion a process of continual becoming that is highly magnified or intensified. The First House and Aries, by their very nature, demand unchecked expression, action and application. Yet Pluto, buy its very nature, seeks security through familiarity. Pluto needs perspective and wants to know 'why' prior to the initation of an action or desire. When these two processes are linked a natural conflict occurs. On the one hand, these individuals naturally gravitate to independence and freedom. They claim the right to be free to do what they must do. On the other hand, they can resist the instinctual impulses to evolve beyond what they are at any moment in time.

The result, on a cyclic basis, is an identity crisis experienced in varying degrees of magnitude. Loss of perspective can occur whenever these individuals cyclically implode upon themselves. Implosions result when the evolutionary desire and pressure to forever move forward through one experience after another, meets the intrinsic resistance of Pluto to secure and maintain that which one already is - familiarity and the known. The identity crisis that occurs is thus based on the simultaneous sense of stagnation, limitation and restriciton in terms of what the individual alrealy is, and the need to eliminate these restricitons by initiating new experiences or actions.

The need for new experiences will have the effect of creating insecurity with respect to what the individual already is and how he or she has sturctured his or her life. Again, these instinctual evolutionary desires to grow, evolve and move forward do not manifest in well-formulated thoughts, concepts, or ideas about what to do. They simply manifest as in intense instinctual impulse to do something, anything, that will create the necessary movement that allows for a continuation of self-discovery. The natural resistance of Pluto when linked to the instinctual impulses or change can result in feelings of inner frustration and anger that can be very intense. Often this anger is projected upon others who are seen as the source of restriction, stagnation, or problem. In extreme cases the potential for physical violence exists.

The polarity point of Pluto is the Seventh House or Libra . The evolutionary desire or intent of this sign or house is ignited as the cycles of identity crisis continue to deepen. It is ignited as the loss of perspective creates cycles of inner torment and anger. The evolutionary desire will progressively lead these individuals into relationships with others. The process of self-discovery and the actialization of a special destiny cannot occur by maintaining a primary allegiance to just themselves. The prior-life instinctual impulse to maintain freedom and independence promotes a 'natural loner' coming into this life. The vacuum of individual isolation from others that has maintained this prior evolutionary need and impulse, will promote the identity crisis because the person has reached an evolutionary limitation that is rooted in themselves.

The loss of perspective experienced during the identity crisis will manifest as a desire to initiate relationships with others who can help the individual answer the question ::Who am I"?, and ::What am I"?. By experiencing a personal limitation wherein these questions cannot be answered completely within themselves, the individual must learn how to open up to other people. "Who am I?", "What am I?" will be the stated or unstated cries leading to interaction with others. These individuals will subconsciously attract other people who can have a rather shocking effect upon them. This shock effect can occur through the information, advice, or perspectives given to them by others. The vibrational resonance emanating from their Souls attracts those who will help the individual answer these questions.

As a result of this natural process, those with Pluto in the First House will be instinctively attracted or repelled by many other people. Often the attractions are linked to a sexual or a physical magnetism. Such attractions may or may not be acted upon, depending upon the contributing factors in the person's total nature, Mars may be in Capricorn for example. In all cases, the basis of an attraction to another will be what I call hypnotic attractions that occur on a very instincutal basis: the individual does not consciously know what the basis of the attraction is - it just is. And, of course, others can be attracted to the individual in the same way. The basis of the hypnotic effect, either way, is a natural vibrational resonance emanating from the Soul that creates in each person a feeling that they would learn something about themselves because fo the relationship formed to the other. These First House Pluto people naturally draw others who can help them fulfill their evolutionary requirements, and others are drawn to them for the same reasons.

This process works very instinctively and can be quite fleeting in effect. The time duration of this type of relationship does not matter. That which occurs through the encounter does. Some relationships will be longer lasting than others. Some will be sexualized, others will not.

When these individuals feel the instinctual attraction to another, there is a natural desire to find out what the basis of the attraction is. Frustration can result if existing circumstances in life do not allow them to follow through upon the attraction. These circumstances could involve many things including involvement with someone else.

(the next section talks about what these individuals do when they meet up with someone that they are repelled by, giving 3 basic reations. I'm skipping this part)

As life unfolds, First House Pluto individuals also come to realize (desire) that they want and need to be in an intimate relationship on a sustained basis, not just brief and intense encounters. From the standpoint of evolution, these individuals are literally learning how to be in a relationships on an equal basis. They are learning how to give rather than take, listen rather than dominate a conversation; learning that they are equals with others and that they are just as imortant or unimportant as anyone else.

By learning to give to others first, they will learn that their own needs are answered as a result. By learning how to listen, they will know what to give. By listening and giving, they will learn the evolutionary lesson of equality and relativity.

Commonly, most of these people will experience difficulties in relationships that revolve around confronations of an emotional, intellecutal, or physical nature in the early part of life. Often they must experience the sense of being attacked, or attacking, of being misunderstood or misunderstanding another. These experiences occur to trigger the realization of where they and others are coming from - the motivations, intentions, and the basis of an attraction or repulsion. In other cases, intense confrontations may occur through which these individuals experience the sense of not having their needs met by another, or of another confronting them because their needs are not met by the First House Pluto individual. The reasons of equality, of giving, of listening; to fulfill another's needs before one's own, to promote the awareness of one's intentions, motivations and the awareness of changing needs." (pgs 43 - 46)

THanks for writing all that out, Kelly, it just so happens that my pluto is in the first house and Tim's is in the fourth.
So, my evolutionary mission would be to learn to not focus on myself too much but to learn how to give and listen in a relationship. My north node is in the 3rd in sag. I can't quite understand how to apply that into it. I have a pluto, venus, mars grand trine too. And I think pluto is square mt MC. Pluto is in libra, so would my first house ruler be venus or mars?
I'm glad I've stumbled upon all this coz it feels very important to find all this out at the moment. I am still confused as to which house system to use. Any advice anyone?

Kel, amazing you should post those 2.
as it just so happens we're another 1st and 4th also...
Hey Evy, snap, ditto
Tried to post this earlier, now I see you've started a thread.So why not use Equal House System Evy!

Tink I'll look for the thread..

Hi evy & Daisy,

Wow! That is a double syncro!

As Greg mentioned here earlier in this thread... Jeff Green uses Porphyry, so when Greg was applying his information, he used the same house system the author did. I myself use Koch, but looked into Porphyry to see if anything was different, and it wasn't, so... you may want to try it and see what happens for you.

evy,
I will see if I can offer you any thoughts on the 3rd house Node after I explore it a bit. Interesting that we have that in common (as we discovered on another thread).

...as for your ruling planet question. It would be the natural house ruler or Mars in your case.

Hey Guys,

I've been reading some more of Jeff Green's Pluto - Volume 1 and thought I'd share a little of what he says about Pluto and what the amount of aspects means. Since Tink has 7 (as does my stepdaughter) I thought it was worth sharing.

PLUTO IN ASPECT TO OTHER PLANETS

"Any planet in aspect to Pluto indicates that those planets have been, and continue to be, subject to an intensified and accelerated evolutionary metamorphosis. The type of aspect determines the intensity of the evolutionary necessity to metamorphose that planetary (behavioral) function. The stressful aspects produce tremendous evolutionary intensity leading to cyclic cataclysms and restful states. The nonstressful aspects produce a noncataclysmic change, the individual will probably not understand why it is occurring. The "why" will be understood, in most cases, after the change has occured. The nonstressful aspects promote an understanding as to why the changes are occurring during the time frame that the changes are taking place.

The number of aspects Pluto forms to to other planets determines the degree of evolutionary pace or change in any life. In other words, the number of aspects involving Pluto correlates with the intensity of the evolutionary state; how much they are trying to accomplish or work on in this life. The greater number of aspects, the more the individual is desiring to accelerate his or her evolutionary growth. This principle is clearly a relative phenomenon. Observe the lives of people who have many aspects to Pluto in their birth charts. Contrast this observation with those who do not. The lives of those who
have more aspects will be characterized by more cataclysms than those who have fewer. The reason is that these individuals are desiring to confront, eliminate and transmute limitations, stagnations and the status quo at key junctures in their lives. This process is reflective of the desire to return to that which created the Soul. Of course, the individual may not consciously identify this process as such. A few will understand it in this way, but most will not. Simply stated, the individual is desiring to get on with it. People with fewer aspects to Pluto are taking a break from the intensity of evolutionary and karmic necessities.

It makes no difference whether these aspects are stressful or nonstressful in terms of the evolutionary process. On the other hand, the individual's ability to handle and understand this process is governed by the traditional attributes of the hard or soft aspects.

The Sun in the birth chart represents how this evolutionary process is integrated and given meaning. The Moon represents how this purpose, meaning and karmic/evolutionary condition is applied and actualized on a daily basis. This symbolism should be clear when we consider Pluto to be the outermost planet in the solar system, and the Sun to be at the very center. Pluto represents the transmigration of the Soul, and the changing natures of the personalities that it manifests. The Sun gives each new personality of the Soul a way to integrate and give meaning to its life. Since this drama is taking place on Earth, the Moon - because of its proximity to Earth - shows how the new purpose and lesson is applied on a daily, rhythmic basis. The Moon can be correlated to the ego and, on that basis, gives the personality a self-image in order for it (the egocentric personailty of the Soul) to feel secure and know itself.

LoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoL a lot LoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoL

I'd just like to congratulate my Moon and my Jupiter for not being aspected to my Pluto. But there again they doesn't aspect anything

As for the ......
"The greater number of aspects, the more the individual is desiring to accelerate his or her evolutionary growth."

I guess that's my Sex Sun, Sex Merc, Sex Venus, Conj Mars, Opp Saturn, Conj Uranus, and Sex Neptune and Sex SN trine NN. Wozzer!!!

Well she got her dad's car and she drove to the hamburger stand now, she forgot the library so she told her old man now, and with the cylinders blasting she drove just as fast as she can now, and she'll have FUN FUN FUN till daddy takes the tes bird away... :P

LORY ME!

LOL

Lis

Kel wanted to say THANKYOU great job, timely as Pluto was not in some books Ive read. It always looked Ominus in my chart, the chart was done over 20 years ago..It said "you gain from worn out things!. or recycled, I repair them..guess it true, because the only place you usually find broken worn out things is at the rubbish dump!!its amazing I find what I need sometimes, then its hot water and disinfectant time in true Virgo Purity... ...

CD

You are most welcome CD!

Isn't it how information appears just when it is needed? These kind of experiences seem to be happening more and more these days...

As for your last comment there... are you a Virgo?

Kel yes the information keeps coming.

Pluto in Virgo, Aries Sun. Have already had Pluto transiting my Sun.

I got ya! I'm Pluto Virgo and Sun Virgo... conjunct none the less. Those Pluto transits were quite intense when they hit that point!

Kel yes Pluto Squaring both for you.Trining Sun was a bit more Freedom for me. Astro.com calls it Internal Evolution

CD

CD, Thankfully that was over 5 years ago (my Sun and Pl are at early degrees), but it is getting ready to square my Merc in Virgo very soon now... hopefully that won't be nearly as bad.

you too, Ive got that coming up, my merc in Pisces.
Forgot Pluto is Rx now, so have a little while yet.
catch you again Kel

Thanx for all the valuable information...I think I may have to buy that book

I think it's well worth it evy

As for the 3rd house thing, I'd say simply put, you are to communicate what you have learned about the 1st/7th house lessons in a Saggy way.

I know that I have been compelled to share about my 4th house experiences (with my 3rd house NN). Being that Uranus cj's my NN, I often communicate in a way that shocks or takes people off guard. I can be quite direct. Leave it to Leo.

Best to be direct and straight than to beat around the bush!
Reading this thread has set me off on a deep journey. And it's quite scary really, a bit like a roller coaster. I'd never really looked at pluto enough. I suppose things come at the righ time!

Wow evy! that this Pluto information has sent you on a Journey... sounds like it is really speaking to your soul.

CD,
I forgot about Pluto being retro too, so that will put it off a bit. My Merc's at 25, what about yours?

Hi Kel,
are you there? I was wonderin g, if, when you have the time and energy, do you think you could post about Pluto in the 5th, from the Jeff Greene book, please?
It may help me understand a few things........

Hi Evy,

Sure... but not sure when it will be though. I am trying to get some things done around the house and limiting my time online. I've been neglecting things in my physical world. Hopefully I will feel so inclined to type that out one day this week.

Hi kel,
whenever you have the energy, don't think of it in the back of your mind as something to do, just let it happen when you feel like doing it!
It's good to get off the computer and get on with the physical dimension too, been trying to do the same!
Love, Evy

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