Hi all

Just been to see the passion of christ, it rased a good few thoughts:

What if Jesus was guilty and deserved to be punished? Don't all death row prisoners proclaim their innocence?

What if trial by jury is not the best way to do things? Neither for Jesus nor for Mary Magdelain, who was being judged for being an adultress? The point being Jesus was sentanced by a jury of his peers, Mary Mag was sentanced to death by stoning but Jesus stepped in. Ought forgivenss be granted for all crimes even those against the ten commandments.

What if Judas turned in the fugitive Jesus and was then linched by the other disciples? A lot more likely than taking his own life? i.e. the big boys did it then ran away.

Why was Peter chosen to build the church when he was such a spinless wimp to deny Jesus after his capture.

I better add these are just rational thoughts as opposed to personal belefs so no offense ment to anyone.

Lis

Hi tinkerbell,

Just been to see the passion of christ, it rased a good few thoughts:

You think too much.

What if Jesus was guilty and deserved to be punished?

He was guilty of breaking the rules, laws and religious doctrine.
His punishment was not in relationship to these though, as there was no official crime of Rome. He became a political pond. First being identified as a troublemaker by the religious leaders to the Romans. Then as bait and switch, easy way out, for the Roman ruler, so he could appease all three groups. The rules, the law and the religious.

Don't all death row prisoners proclaim their innocence?

I do not think he proclaims anything about his character. Others did.
Nevertheless, yes, most everyone swears they did not do it.

What if trial by jury is not the best way to do things? Neither for Jesus nor for Mary Magdelain, who was being judged for being an adultress? The point being Jesus was sentanced by a jury of his peers, Mary Mag was sentanced to death by stoning but Jesus stepped in. Ought forgivenss be granted for all crimes even those against the ten commandments.

Just the facts, mama. Criminal law and civil law are too different things. In any case, the jury only determines the facts of guilt in accordance with the evidence as proof. The leaders set the laws and punishment, some very strict, others in a class or range. The judge is the one determining the punishment within the range. When it comes to new ground of how much forgiveness the society can bear due to their own crappy selves, it goes right back to the leaders that were elected, appointed, or allowed to set the standards. Nevertheless, yes, we need to forgive much more than we do, and things are yet getting much worst in that area, in America, as the people grow in fear and frustration rather than understanding. If your brother married a man, could you accept it? If someone with a long history of DUI's and crashes happens to be in a bad accident which killed several people and he was found to be sober and admitted he just looked away for a few seconds to load a tape in the player. If one of the dead people was your spouse, could you forgive him?

What if Judas turned in the fugitive Jesus and was then linched by the other disciples? A lot more likely than taking his own life? i.e. the big boys did it then ran away.

Stereotype subplots are always possible but that is why we have witnesses and evidence in the courts. Hearsay is fiction.

Why was Peter chosen to build the church when he was such a spinless wimp to deny Jesus after his capture.

Who said he was chosen? He died in Rome upside down on a cross. He did not build any church other than the true church of the believers by faith. Paul was anything but spineless and was often reeled in by Jesus least he smite a few blokes for being rude.

I better add these are just rational thoughts as opposed to personal belefs so no offense ment to anyone.

The rational road to enlightenment is a loop 25,000 long. Nope, non-Christians are not offending; it is those born again religious fanatics that get things really hosed.

So here is a question. Where do we go when we die? Who is in charge?

Hi Prox,

You think too much.

That is my charm

Aren't a lot of punishments way bin excess of the crime which were commited.

He always said that he didn't say he was the son of god, others did, as others also said that he was innocient. But then it's the others that were invovled in passing on by word of mouth what went on.

If criminal and cival law is different both Mag and Jesus were cival law because neither of them had committed a crime pre sey. Both were guilty with various levels of proof. The rabble wanted a known murder released rather than someone who had broken spiritual laws. All the prediction at the last supper is clearly someone who knows the shit is about to hit the fan. The crimes of adultry - ask the wife, and of religious law breaking, ask the church.

Judas is hearsay.


"Who said he was chosen?"

The gospells state that Peter was the intial chosen one to build the church.


So here is a question. Where do we go when we die? Who is in charge?

worm food my friend!! It doesn't really matter because we will nor be in the body we are currently in or think in the same way so it's really rather beside the point.

Lis

We shall not all sleep but (some) will be transformed.

Yes, worm food until the last days.
Until then you are top-left and I am bottom-right, each with a reason, a path, and a goal.

Debra Norvell. What a waste of a great chart.
She gets paid big bucks to be living worm food.

People who have become worm food since Abraham. 6.8351585149469122636640694597426e+422

6,835,158,514,946,912,263,664,069,459,742,600,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Seems a little high? lol

Hi Tinkerbell & Proxymoon ,

uuuh , you both think really TOO much....Why to make it difficult when it is so simple ?

There is a difference between a civil law and a religious one .

BTW - I did not see that movie so I can not contribute more to this discussion...

Happy Easter ,
Pastlives .

Waaaay too big a number, Proxy! Going backward from the observed rate of population growth over the past few centuries (assuming there weren't any radical discontinuities that we don't know about in the ancient past), there have only been about 12 billion humans born in the entire history of the human race.

Which means that over half of the people who have ever lived on earth are still alive today!

Happy Easter!

Love,
Greg

Hi Prox

Some people arn't worm food they just hang around a while. How dull is that?

http://members.aol.com/ccmail/incorruptbodies.html

So tell me, if there is more than half the people on earth now than there ever was, then how could they all be reinacrnations?

Still maybe trial by jury is not the way to go.

Lis

Hi tinkerbell,


Not quite as dull as some of your posts of late.

I have often thoht about that very concept.
New Agers have many faninating theroies concerning bands, frequencies, vibrations, and levels.
My fav is is that word is out for a big woodstock like Plauto Party. It should be a blast as all the great Gods will be there. All the Drugs, sex and booze you can igmaine for only 99 bucks.

Hmmm my post dull? Well you responded so can't be that bad. But then i'm not on some political soap box trying to bash people into agreeing with me.

A bit party happens most years just on the outskirts of Glasonbury.

Lis

Hi ya Tink and Proxy! Wouf! you both are thinking tooooo much. Take it easy guys...

The Truth will set us all free one day, we shall gather then (transfigurated) and laughing at all this too much thinking

Hi Tink,
Looks like the ABC was thinking hard on this too,
as they ran a program "Who Killed Jesus".
They made claims that Jesus put himself in this position repeatedly by not leaving at any time. Kaiafus(spelling?)a Temple Priest wanted him out of the city, but could not put him to death himself.Judas told the Priest he was,to find Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. The matter was referred to Pontius, who found him innocent but left it up to the crowd who found him guily. So Pontius washed his hands of the matter, in front of everybody and had Jesus put to death as that is what the crowd wanted. A theory was: Kaiafus sent a mob into the crowd to make sure the crowd found him guilty.

I did not see The Passion.
and did not even think of the program till your Post.

PS. dont shoot the messenger!.

CD

Ahhhhhhhhhhh now, CD, Please let me shoot the messenger!!!!!

LOL

How are you doing? I see you have being doing a lot of wordsmithing!!

I think a lot of the controversy in the US was that the film provoked antisemitism. I didn't get that out the film, but it did call me to question our judiciary.

As for the film, I guess any "criminal" is offered the choice of running or staying to fight their corner. As an innocent Jesus would be unliekly to run.

Increasing the sentance for Jesus' crimes is definately the preists falt to attempt to get a man put to death when it's against there own laws.

Pilot seems to be the one bone of contention and came out with far less blame than is normally associated with him. But then his actions by designed were in order that this would happen.

It is highly likely that the rabbel was swelled with people against Jesus, than for Jesus, but then his deciples all got a bit spineless about standing thier ground as well.

So everyone had blame in the whole thing. which is think is one of the points.

Sounds like an interesting if somewhat controvertial programme. Especially in a country which is rather vocal about Christianity.

Hi Rachel,

All the talk about thinking too much!!!! Good grief Anyone would think you've been chatting to proxy. LOL

Lov n hugs

Lis

Hi Tinkerbell,

BTW - your name has become - I guess - very famous now thanks to a certain Peter Pan (=David B-a-ckham ) I wonder what would Linda say about his surname, it does indicate something !

(You see, there are so many subjects to discuss! )

Regards,
Pastlives .

Actually the anti-Semitism flair up was short lived in mainly a local area on the east (I think), as were all the other hub-bub, from the story line being wrong, story line being very accurate, MG having a daddy problem, the movie was to violent, the movie was too long, and on and on for about week after it was released. Then everyone shut up about it and said it was harsh to watch but make them think.
Which for most of them would have been the first time in in a blue moon.

No, I have not seen it. I read the book.

Darwin

how am I doing? scattered-shattered and picking up the pieces..LOL

"As an innocent Jesus would be unlikely to run".

Very likely, as an Innocent, what did he have to Fear!!

"Increasing the sentance for Jesus' crimes is definately the preists fault to attempt to get a man put to death when it's against there own laws."

It was tried, not all agreed.Passover had brought Pilot to the City.

Story conveyed, showed this came about after the Money exchange incident in the Temple, which I failed to convey in my first post.But this seems to be an incident most extremely emphasied in stories/teachings.At the time of Passover, the people were arriving and the priests were there to receive them in, to takes baths to purify their bodies.The temple was found to have Hundreds of Baths.What they were suggesting was this one little luxury did not come
so cheap.The food preparation was of spectacular proportion, as the people were flocking in from all over.

Ahh! the Will of God. The stage had been set.Pilot was there-Seemed more like a crowd you'd find in the Gladiator Arena!.Guess that is where the irony of the momemt steps in, we have the Pieces.The Crowd had his approval.

Vocal on Christianity, what have we projected, tell me ? I follow the controversies, then forget/drop them like a hot cake. , up to you Tink.
What gets me is the place I was born in is called the City Of Churches, funny I had thohts to photograph a particular Church the last 2 years.
CD

Hi Pastlives, I think you mean twinkle toes, which is a completely different thing. Beckham has now moved to Spain I think.

Prox

The film is bloody but not what you would call violent - no shooting etc. Violence was torture which is taken from the bible. At one point Jesus is lashed so much whith whips the flesh over his ribs is taken clean off...GRIM but not stabbings etc.

It is a long film, specially with subtitles, most main streme people wouldn't see it here.

As for Blue moons we are due one soon I think

maybe you should try seeing it



Greg, you know you loose me with the time physics, I really should go to night school and get my head around it some more.

So maybe we reincarnate into the past as we currently see it. So if we think linarly, people with relatively few Past lives are nearly done cookin?

"and each soul "is" the experience of many lifetimes, which we only conceive as unfolding in time because our minds are incapable of comprehending experience without projecting it as a linear sequence in time."

Kind of like the Butterfly effect. Choices then become fragments of different people who are living within a similar cycle and there is another Lisa around speaking to another Greg about why they are not me? LOL

Thanks for the explanation.

Hi CD

"scattered-shattered and picking up the pieces..LOL"

Oh lov, what's wrong?

"Story conveyed, showed this came about after the Money exchange incident in the Temple, which I failed to convey in my first post."

I kind of know that, just a long time since I took a peak.

"I had thohts to photograph a particular Church the last 2 years."

What's the relevance of this church?

I was sorely tempted to photograph the Church in London that Davinci code was talkigng about, the templer one. It's not far from here.

Interesting thoughts..........

Lov n hugs

Lis

Tink

every thing has settled down, it is just a matter of 'stuff' furniture, possessions, and no room for it here but Ive got it through a few family members deaths..but guess Im literally picking up stuff, and having to do something with it..it has been an ordeal for 18 months.Pluto maybe.

Figured you'd know the story, but yes its been more than a while for me.The topic of Jesus, I have trouble jumping into at anytime..so it is unusual for me to join in on this, but Easter bring these shows to the fore front, and Ive said my piece now..

Oh the church is not known to me, but has Gothic Architecture.We pass it all the time, guess Ill just hang out the window with the camera one day! ..since posting we saw a show on hidden Architecture, something about the centre of two circles is called a Vi?, it makes the shape of a Fish..missed taping the first few minutes, yet to see the rest.

It was later that I remebered you are in England..so the Templar Church is not far from you, that is just a tad bit exciting
CD

Hi Tinkerbell,

I meant Tinkerbell, it was a nickname of one of David B.'s ex-lovers. They have called each other Tinkerbell and Peter Pan , I think it was the one who was born in Malaysia. I do not know if you have followed that story, but I have read about it maybe only one or two articles, so it just jumped into my mind like a good joke...

Anyway, his surname is Beckham, not Backham, so I guess the lexigram would give some other meanings...

Regards,
Pastlives .

PastLives, Im following you, do get the joke

Tink, this may be the Crux of the matter.

Crux
Italian voyager to the Southern Hemisphere, Vespucci, called this constellation 'the Mandorla' This literally means an almond and is also the word most used in Italian art for the Vestica Piscis, the oblong glory surrounding saints ascending into heaven, the portion in the circles that was eluding me.

Crux is not now entirely visible above 27° 30' of north latitude. It was last seen on the horizon of Jerusalem 31°46' 45" - about the time that Christ was crucified. But 3000 years previously all its stars were 7° above the horizon of the savages (! Allen writing in 1899) along the shores of the Baltic Sea, in latitude 52° 30'


daisygirl

Hi gals

Pastlives, I hadn't realised that Becham's fling was called that. She was on TV here yesterday, what a claim to fame, she shagged some football player.....SAD really.

Crazy D
Yes that sounds like Pluto, where is the transit hitting/transiting?

I had a lady who was murdered from an Art class I attended early last year. I got a call from a detective on Thursday about it. You'd have thought they would have called earlier, but I didn't have anything much I could tell them.

At least with Pluto the transit is only a little bit more than a year. I've got two years back to back which are FULL of Pluto squares, so the worst should be over by the end of the summer.


I'm not big on Jesus discussions myself, but the film moved me quite a bit. I really hadn't expected to come away from it thinking that the justice system wasn't a good thing.

It's weird because Easter brings the religion out of me far more so than Christmas which other people hold up so high. I always seem to go searching for spiritual truths, I searched this year for uncorupted saints (bodies that didn't decompose), apparitions of Mary and bilocations. I also got a copy of stimata, which is a pretty powerful if over dramatised film.

Maybe the church is calling you to visit and look around. Perhaps there is a spiritual awakening there for you.

Yes if you create a ven diagrame from two circles the fish symbol is present. I guess that may be a hidden christian thing.

I went along to a Buddhist chanting meeting last month, which was very POWERFUL. I can understand why it works, because it has such tremendous vibration. I have an aquantance who thinks I should be chanting, actually several people say I should be doing this....Although I think I would be very self concious and feel a bit silly.

I can't go out the door here without tripping up over some church. The district I live in has churches on every other strees, you're never far from church bells here, I find that comforting.

The Templar Church is a short bus ride away, but it is in a part of town I rarely go into. I was in walking distance from Roslyn glen when i did my nurse training, the glen is a protected site for wild flowers. My brother Tim lives a walk away from it too.

One weekend I will go take some pictures of it for you, and if I get the chance will also go into the abby and get photos of Newtons grave.

Lov n hugs

L:is

Hi Tink, was thinking the same thing about the church.

Funny! at Christmas I got a Book, Buddhist Hand Gestures.
and the the bodies that dont decompose, saw a few shows on Pay TV about that.That's the same for me too, Easter and Religion, the 2 go hand in hand. Also Stigmata was one of the very first cheap sale books I ordered from Doubleday.Fascinates me for sure..Saw the first Picture of Rasputin in that book(about stigmata).
Newtons Grave Interesting as Ive been Lexigramming Vincent Van Gogh's message on his Tombstone, I C I REPOSE..
Even old Will had a fairly similar message.
The Passion is on Tomorrow, too far to go though, waiting for it to come to a cinema near me..
Freaky about the Art pupil

CD

Hi Cd

Maybe you ought to go exploring the church and find out why it resonates with you.

"Buddhist Hand Gestures" So what was in that then? Sounds a bit of an odd read?

I had come across stimata long long before the film, I grew up in a very religious household.

Was Rasputin a stimatic? I didn't know that. I wonder how much of it is psycosomatic.

Van Gogh and I have a curious relationship. I had always overlooked him because he is reproduced on SO much over here. Objects with sun flowers, prints etc all over the place. I was simply board by the famous images. But I was totally knocked for swix when I first saw a real live on. I found the real paintings to be increadibly compelling. The paintings just ooze passion. I was totally taken back by the use of colour and of the texture of the them. I'm dieing to see sary nights and the crooked chuch.

Yes sad about the Art tutor, I wonder why I was given the call all this time afterwards, an echo somehow of it in some ways. I guess I need to think on it some more.

Lov n hugs

Lis