now Starcap..wherever did you get that information???

First of all, for all the people in here who are trying to convice us immortals that immortality isn't true, how would you like it if in an astrology thread, we started bashing astrology???? You're so quick to judge others for their beliefs. Why don't you look at yourself?

Second, Aries, the Bible is chockful of information on immortality. Not only is it OBVIOUS that Adam and Eve would have lived forever prior to their eating from the tree of good and evil, but there were even instances of immortality after this. Methuselah, Moses, and Noah all lived into their 900s or thereabouts, which is--as far as I'm concerned--evidence for immortality, not to mention the fact that if Jesus hadn't chosen to die, he wouldn't have died. Period!

I realize that this is a touch subject. But most people don't realize that the reason death is abundant is because there is so much faith in its existence. Death is advertised everywhere. So, for all you people who think death is inevitable or that it's the way to go, I say you've been brainwashed by all the advertisements for death: the church, insurance agencies, big brother, your parents and family, schools, doctors, nurses, and everyone else who pushes death down our throats on a daily basis. Death is not inevitable, but instead of seeing the little crack in the wall that shows you the way out, you choose to listen to all the propaganda that exists in the world around you.

Now, I've got a web site that is pro immortality. I'm not going to shamelessly advertise it here, because I know that it's not appropriate. Others have posted the name throughout this site, so if you can find the name to the site, then you are welcome. Debates are welcome, and the Ultimate Bulletin Board is available. Ra, you are especially welcome. You can ask the administrators of this site for my e-mail address, and when you e-mail me, I will send you the name of the site.

Whatever the case, immortality is going to take a long time to kick off, because even people enlightened enough to practice the New Age are not interested in the idea of living forever. Are there people who are more open-minded than New Agers? I sure hope so!

now Moneybaby/Deathnonmore..it seems a lot of people "talk" about it but no one actually proves or shows some of us bible versus or anything else. Of course it talks of immortality but I havent seen the word physical ever mentioned. perhaps you could show me??...and I dont mean something in the far off future(as anything is possible) but I mean in this life ..NOW. Ive yet to hear of people who have attained this,but rather a lot of lip service. However,as far as other "planes", that could be different.
Living forever on this earth makes me laugh when I think of all the air pollution,global warming,rotten water,and so many pollutants leached into our soils that proper food cant be grown,not to mention the chemicals used for them. etc etc I could go on and on.
I will add that when mankind is again almost wiped out for the earth to become "anew", then perhaps we will once again be given the chance for the physical immortality theory.

Well, i have to say that i think it is wonderful and enlightening how everyone is responding both the negative and the positive. It is so invigorating! I totally agree with you money baby. This is not the time to be bashing, it is the time to be teaching and being open to new ideas and insights. so i give you a great pat on the back for sticking up for yours and my beliefs. oh yes, and there is no reference in the bible to where jesus said astrology was wrong...just in the old testament.

Lots of Love, Miranda*

Oh and i WILL get that verse tonight.

Hi everybody,
I beleive in immortality, but I dont think it is anything I could ever do. Knowing me, Id just get bored. I actually want to reincarnate and experience new things. I cant imagine spending all of eternity being Neha. If people dont beleive in immortality, its completely understandable and I dont think we should sit here getting angry over this subject.
Neha

MoonGoddess, I'm not sure if you were referring to me but i never mentioned that astrology was wrong...This is my personal opinion but i just think some people rely to much on the stars...the old testament never says that astrology is wrong. It actually contributes to it's validity by stating that a certain group's victory was "in the stars." Like i said in my other post, the three wise men were astrologers, and they would have never known about Jesus' coming without knowledge of astrology. From what i've read of the New Testament, Jesus' teachings were all about love for one's neighbor and faith in a higher power...He doesn't praise nor abdicate astrology, so studying it as harmless as studying chemistry.

---Remember in the Matrix how Neo found out from that lady that he wasn't the "chosen one"? He became the "chosen one" by following the chosen one's path and simply believing...i have nothing against astrology or magic...sorry if i'm coming out that way...I just feel that the human spirit can overcome what is set in the stars.

Allright everyone here is that verse i was talking about. It is Isaiah chapter 48 verses 13-15. I wanna know what everyone thinks. I do believe that the coming of the new testament changed alot of things. Oh and gohan i really do understand what you mean with people relying on astrology too much. well, here goes...

"13 All the consel you have recieved has only worn you out. Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make perdictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you. 14 Surely they are like stubble; the fire will burn them up (now that is kind of scary) They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame. Here are no coals to warm anyone; here is no fire to sit by. 15 That is all they can do for you- these you have labored with since childhood. Each of them goes on in his error, there is not one that can save you." WHEW. ok now that was a bit much. I feel like the bible is contradicting itself in so many ways when it comes to astrology. what does everyone think of this verse? perhaps when man was writting the Bible each of their views was different..just as each of our truths our. Perhaps each saw God in a different manner...to some God was feared and to others he was loving and forgiving. Now that is the one Creator i believe in. Well, i hope that this has been very interesting for some of you. and i will tell you this...there is NO way i back up that verse. why would i be here? well, i shall go now. I am very welcome to response on this. Lots of Love, Miranda*

Oh yes, and does anyone recommend any wonderful reading on the topic of immortality and astrology. i have such trouble finding books that go deeper than just telling you "how to"! i wanna know everything i can. i am confident my teacher will come some day but for now i am on my own ! Lots of Love, Miranda*** :O

Hello Moon Goddess.

I'm just now getting here! Whoo!
On the Linda Goodman Forum I already wrote how I felt about immortality,(re Change of HEART thread) so I'm not here to argue or debate the subject. !
I'd just like to say that I honor ALL those who are practicing immortality.
Also, I have a question:
Has anyone ever met someone who has succeeded in their quest for immortality???
Peace, LOVE & LIGHT,
SeaJ

MoneyBaby - Thank you. Forgive me for the late response, I have not read anything since 6/9. I have been to the website a couple of times (looking for DNM) but had a lot of trouble getting on. I will try again, however it appears that my main objective has been achieved.

Aries - I believe that much of what we see in the world is projected from within and there is no doubt that how we see it is absolutely subject to our inner mental processes. So the same very negative world that you see is, well, not quite that negative to me. "Magic Happens"

Walk in Peace

I don't think we on this site shoud deny the possibility of immortality or decry those who have decided to follow Linda's advice on this topic. After all, this is Linda Goodman's site and she dedicated a large section of Star Signs to immortality.

As for the bible passage which seems to speak against astrologers..... Are you really going to take literally everything that was said in the old testament? Have you thought about some of the other things it talks about like sacrificing a goat? Why do people only pick out the bits they are interested in? And this passage does not say it is wicked to be an astrolger. It is saying that this particular group of astrologers were shortsighted and unevolved and couldn't heed the lessons given to them. Astrology has come a long way from the predictive art it used to be.

Wise words, Mermaid. We've sure had a lot of pro-and-con discussion about physical immortality here, and that's great! It's a big subject, with far-reaching implications. But I don't think it's so much a subject for DEBATE as it is one of CHOICE. Linda absolutely believed that we have the choice to be physically immortal -- and so do I -- and in the end she exercised her own choice to move beyond the physical realm. To me, her message was not "don't die physically," but "don't be a victim of the death belief." Create the reality you CHOOSE.

Personally, I do not seek physical immortality ... I love physical life and all its experiences, but I also recognize that it is just one slice of all the infinite experience available in timeless reality, and I want to experience the rest of it too. I'm happy to live a long, healthy and productive life on this plane, and then move on to new adventures. But that's just a statement of MY choice, not an assertion that the quest for physical immortality is good or bad, right or wrong, a noble quest or a foolish distraction. It's just my choice, and we all have that.

The real message here is that we are FREE! We create our own realty!! WOW!!!

Greg

Ra,

With all due respect, I don't feel that Aries was being negative. I feel what she said is true. Yes, the world is very polluted. You can create your own paradise on earth, or you can create your own Hell on earth. But whatever you see, whatever you create, people need to be educated about how polluted the earth really is. There is a lot of information available. I am not going to elaborate.

There may be a person here or there that is immortal; but for our race in general to be immortal, I agree with Aries that the earth would have to be cleansed in some way, OR start over again. There would have to be a strong force of the collective consciousness to change our structure of cells. There are many spiritual as well as ecological books out there which will provide information.

I'm just sticking up for her because I don't think it's fair that you call her negative.

Peace,

~Nephthys

P.S. It's fine if you'all want to be physically immortal, but you should realize that there are higher dimensions of learning beyond the earth plane.

I respectfully retract my negative statement. Apologies everyone.

And I agree with the fact that much of the world you see is very polluted, and that Mother Nature is imbalanced because of it. I myself am an active environmentalist, and it pains me to see the Earth in such a state.

However, there is still much good left which requires attention as well. I prefer to direct my attentions to the positive as much as I can - not denying the negative of course. Thoughts are things.

Also, being immortal in no way sacrifices one's option to experience higher planes. Choice is key. We create.

Walk in Peace

And Gregory, you are most wise.

Thank you, Ra ...

thanks Neph! ..you're very right..one would have to know me (here in the real world )to know Im not negative( in fact,coworkers and friends say they dont know how I can be so positive!)..but I AM a realist,and an activist..not a dreamer in a fantasy world...Im thankful you understood the post.

PS..loved your PS Neph!

<<I will add that when mankind is again almost wiped out for the earth to become "anew", then perhaps we will once again be given the chance for the physical immortality theory.>> --Aries

You're a realist, huh???

By the way, I'm immortal. So now you've met one. And when you're ready for the last chapter of Star Signs in your next life or a life thereafter, you will also be immortal and realize the limitations of reincarnation, for it is not immortality that is limiting; it is the endless starting over of reincarnation that is limiting. Learn your lessons while here on earth now. If death is nothing more than a chance to start over, then heaven is right here on earth. We are meant to live in the physical world. The soul is in search of a body always, and people who want to reincarnate are doing their sould a disservice. Think about it.

Please explain to me how the concept of reincarnation is limiting (in your opinion). Please do so in a non-attacking manner for I am truly curious as to how you have come to that conclusion. Thank-you, I anxiously await.

Lazuli,

From what I understand about people who are pro-reincarnation (from reading books on it and from these posts), it is a thrill for people to die and then come back as a new person in a new life. They talk about all the wonderful experiences they will have coming back a second, third, fourth, fifth, or umpteenth time. I think it's great that people want to be born into a new world with new challenges and experiences, but I'm confused about something:

Aren't they being born into the same world they recently departed from???? What's new that wouldn't have been new if they would have stayed alive???

Here's the deal: if you want to do something new, then do it. Why do you have to die and start all over again to do something new? People who are pro-reincarnation act as though death is a good thing, but life is what matters. The spiritual plane (depending upon which one you believe in) is rather limiting for the soul. If I understand reincarnation, the reason people reincarnate is to come back again and again in order to pay off debts (karma). When all the debts are paid, then they can move on. If you read the last chapter of Star Signs, then you will know that karma is accelerated for immortals; therefore, they can shed their bad karma more quickly in order to learn life's lessons in this life, not the next. The immortal achieves enlightenment while in the flesh body, which is not limiting. The flesh body is the culmination of the physical, mental, and spiritual intertwining. The spiritual world is generally only visited by us for a brief period of time until we are ready to return to a new flesh body--one that has to learn everything all over again.

Learn new things ... it's time for a change ... these are the things I hear from people who are pro-reincarnation. For the first 20 years of life, they've got to learn how to read, write, walk, talk, date, drive, run, exercise, diet, play, and so on and so forth. Plus, these "new things" that people speak of are really old things being done over and over again that people have already forgotten. For instance, it's probably safe to say that people need to go through 8 years of medical school before they start operating on people. And it's also probably safe to say that it's better to be a surgeon for many years before you sit down and write the complete encyclopedia on surgery. If you're lucky (and you realize that this is what you want to do), then you can probably pull this off before you're 70, without much time to enjoy it if you choose to die. The person who perpetually reincarnates might think about doing this in many lives. In one, he/she finally sits down and writes a great book after being a surgeon for 50 years ... and then he/she dies .... and then he/she comes back in another life without any knowledge of the great and wonderful accomplishment that he/she just did. And if this person decides to read the book he/she wrote in a past life, it will be difficult to understand without medical training!!!!

But an immortal can accomplish this and many, many more things in the same lifetime. Instead of starting over and over again and never remembering any of his/her accomplishments, the immortal will live on and continue to learn new and novel feats without ever worrying about running out of stuff to do, because there's always stuff to do. The immortal just doesn't do the same stuff over and over again.

I'm not bashing reincarnation. I'm celebrating immortality. I think that if you choose to be immortal, then that's great. If you choose to reincarnate, then that's great. Some people bash immortality, and perhaps that offends me a little. I don't want to come off conceited or crass, but I wish people would take more time to look at immortality rather that brush it off as a bunch of phooey. Reincarnation is believed by a lot of people, and that's why most people who believe it take it seriously. In my book, it's just like Christianity. If reincarnation didn't have such a big following, I don't think it would hold much validity. Immortality, on the other hand, is believed by so few that it already has very little popularity or validity. So I come to this site to find some friends, and what do I get??? People who believe in reincarnation are QUICK to put down immortality. Maybe it's just me, but this should be a tolerant site. Scientifically, I could bash every belief that Linda Goodman and everyone on this site has ever held, but I choose to remain tolerant because I know some of my beliefs are "out there." What gets me is how other believers are skeptical of other people's beliefs but not of their own. If reincarnation is true, the immortality must not be true .... that's what I'm hearing. Why can't they both be true???? And let's let people choose what they want, but don't go around bashing others for what they believe.

Now, I know what everyone's going to say ... Dan (MB), you just bashed reincarnation. No, I didn't. I answered Lazuli's question in the best possible manner. If I've offended anyone, then I apologize. Let's let by-gones be by-gones and learn from this experience.

well..since I think seeing IS believing..then all I can say is Congratulations!! Moneybaby..you're the first "physical immortal" I now know of!..tell me tho..whats your secret?? is it all those eggs you eat??

Just thought I'd put my response to your letter in both places...as you have.
Thank you for your response, but I am curious..who has bashed immortality?...I don't see any "bashing" of immortality, did I miss something?

I would just like to say though that there is much much more to the concept of reincarnation than what you wrote here, although I am sure you know that. Many people for whom reincarnation is an integral part of the religion in which they have been raised are not as concerned with basking in the warm glow of their personal accomplishments as much as making it their soul's mission to be of assistance to humanity.

Nontheless, as Gregory has often said, this is not a forum for debate. And as I said earlier, I am invoking these discussions not for purposes of weilding judgement, just in order to understand a concept that I don't fathom. Thanks again

MoonGoddes, I can't seem to find the verse that you were referring to in your post. I looked up Isaiah 48 13-15 but it talks about how God laid the foundations of earth and how he will destroy Babylon.

Wow,
amazing what one comment can produce.
Aries; When I said we were all immortal before the fall of man, that statement came from my heart. I have no Proof of this it just is something that I know.
DNM/MB I am still on the fence about immortality and reincarnation but to somewhat answer the question about people wanting to die and come back I say that to me it is like a vacation....When you choose to die you are experiencing a rest(in heaven ect.)You come back(reborn)when you feel that the circumstances are right for you again to return. This could be because of loved ones passing on or certain souls that you need for your own spiritual growth not being in the physical yet. I often joke with my husband that I DO NOT want to have any more new karma between us and that I wonder what I did to him in the past. Well I have put enough of my 2 cents in on the subject.
PEACE&LOVE
Starcap67

Of course, everyone here is right. But there is one thing that the "mortals" seem to be missing. Being immortal does NOT confine one to the physical Earth plane! Ultimately the immortal will be able to leave this Earth and come back at will. If I need a break, I will take one! But death is not the way I am going to do it - unless I choose it. So death just becomes unnecessary. Immortals can "fade away", and if they choose, can be physically born again. Choice.

So reincarnation is fine. Immortality is fine. I choose to remember - so immortality.

Walk in Peace