Darwin,

Maybe your intention was not to hurt with your words, but you often do (in the case of this thread). Is an apology that difficult of a thing to do?

Opti makes some good points without really being hurtful... he came on a bit strong (and had a lot to say), but was not hurtful (although it is not fun to be used as an example). Very enlightened/enlightening IMHO, and I will join him in his request for prayers of Love & Light for you.

Something that I thought was very interesting was his posting of Desiderada which you posted not all that long ago. So maybe you are more like minded than you think.

No, I wasn't expecting one from you I was just saying that my gut feeling about them makes me very uneasy. Even if I come to the point where I have no choice but to vote for them someday, I'll still be suspicious of their motives and watch their moves like a hawk.

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD GOD DARWIN

Do you really need to go so far from home to find an ignorant, arrogant man? You'd find one a lot quicker by going into your bathroom and taking a long look in the mirror.

Let's face it you don't get more ignorant than never bothering to say thank you for a christmas present sent month ago!!!!



Lis

hee hee. You took the words out of my mouth, Lis. Only I wasn't going to utter them.

Wuv,
A wascully wainbow

Higher There Ani


I Feel that you are genuinely concerned along with others but please `Overstand` that you are `partnering` your compassionate sincerity with an insincere and old world colonial mentality.

There is nothing wrong in loving or forgiving those who would hurt us or mock Us , infact it is to be encouragd. Indeed I have sent proxy love &light every night since I gave him back his own medicine. ;)

Like I`ve just said it is the old colonial mentality deluded by thinking its `energy` still belongs in the 21st century.
And not one crocodile tear or drop of sarcastic wit shall wipe out a word of it.
Except for a geniuine and sincere apology.

Love should always be given freely Ani(you already innately know this), but Ani Trust should be earned, if it is given away too cheaply, then please do not be offended and `hit the roof` when your trust his thrown back in your face.

With all respect Ani,i personally feelthat if you wish to respect the situation over in India in this forum, aswell as similar situations around the world. Then you would do more for that situation(than you may realise)by starting your own thread on this situation, than continuing to carry on your heartfelt discussions under the mocking Heading of a thread entitled `India Land of the ignorant and arrogant men`. Your own father was born in India was he not?. Gandi was born there....India has given countless births to beautiful humans, literature, art, and music.
Please think before planting your own beautiful seeds on hard and unfeeling ground.They deserve to germinate in more fertile soil and souls.

Its amazing to me that his `energy` has been allowed to grow so strong .I`ve read enuff of LG herself to know she would not tolerate racism never mind condone it under the guise of "its only proxy, he does that now and again"

The sacred temple was only able to be defiled by the money changers because people did`nt have enuff respect for the sacred site.

Wake up...Ani, this is not about Proxy the individual its about the energy he represents. Mandela and Gandi taught us to never to bow or become apathetic to it...because it would smile in your face only to come back when you least expect it, to bite you another day....and terrorize over the children that come after you.Dont think about what i`m saying....Feelit.

Start your own thread Ani, becouse the purer and more sincere the better, it will all go towards softening the situation in India and around the world. The power of just one sincere loving thought (or thread) has real power more than the world realises or acknowledges. But its Heart-power can be weakened by that which are" vexations to the spirit.". Start your own golden thread.

Unlike me computers seem to be his strong point and I`m sure his knowledge has helped many....so"render unto Caesar that which is his...."


But yes my thread was dark but atleast it was sincere. And has veneo so rightly pointed out, me and Proxy are maybe similar...yes I agree we both spoke in anger and we are both `messengers`...and we were both `projecting` from a place of pain....but that's where it ends....think about this long enuff(and go back to both our words) and you will `Overstand` there is a big diference in our motivation and goals.

Thank you Veneo in joining with me in sending love&light to Darwin. And I again ask others to join us in this.

Also I find that when I`m angered or sadden. I have come to believe that it helps the world greatly and in turn ourselves...to sometimes imagine/visualise the world(and its suffering) bathed in Love&Light....not just India... America...Australia or Britain.
Insulting India and its women(ie,suchi) is not the way of enlightened discussion, if you think it is then by all means stay on the energy of this thread..... .but LOVE well Ani ,I guess that's another thread.

You asked if the George I mentioned in `my wrath` was the Same George and the Dragon. Yes he is ,we in England have spent the last weekend re-membering and celebrating.(23rd April its also the birth of another warrior poet, who makes me look like a retard,ie,.....William Shakespere.

My personal re-membering of the 23rd April, is not a patriotic one, but more esoteric. But yes the red cross is his, but this red cross on a white background was added by the Crusaders...who weren't exactly saints themselves, this has to be said.

The Dragon in the story symbolises the lower serpent nature in humans that needs to be tamed rather than killed. I wrote an apostle to Evy last month that explains this lower wingless serpent nature more.(I accidentley placed it on the wrong thread, but I think its on starchat)

This story also esoterically relates to the `cleansing` of certain crossroads of energy, ie, leylines(Dragon Paths).

This is definitely the last time I speak on this thread, I`m sorry but to me,(because of its title) it is `dead`. Personally I am not looking for an apology from Proxy, but to people such as yourself and your nation in general.

Nor, you will note has there been any recognition that there is any need for an apology. You seem
to be not concerned that in the future he will make you` hit the roof again`, simply for some attention. Well that is your free will choice, but with all respect, I`d rather avoid vexations to my spirit. I have made an exception by coming back to this thread because of points made and questions asked of me by you.

Ani....JC said "do unto others has you would have them do unto you". If I fell asleep I would love for someone to bless and shake me awake with love or the wrath of love, whatever it took. Proxy merely forgot this universal law of cause and effect. And has failed to appreciate his own medicine that he so freely prescribes to others regardless of weather they have asked for it or not. You should note that there is not one loving word in his first dicourse.

"We reap what we sow", and so shall it be done to me. I have given more to this site than I have took from it.
There`s no need other than for love, for me to be trying so hard for total `strangers`, me a mere newbie!

I have three or four more posts to answer, so before this month is done I`ve decided to take a rest, I`m off on holiday for a month, I need to recharge and go back to my trusty pencil and paper.

Remember Ruth symbolises Beauty and she is in Truth, be Loving but neither be weak, be Firm and stand your ground....it is far more stronger and nobler than being...Ruthless. Remember this and you shall always enter thru the Gate. Nuff said.

Take Care.


Your(s) with Love in The Light&Knight

pti...Mum...LOVE


Ps

"The world belongs to the optimists,
The pessimists merely the spectators"

- P GUAGIN -

I understand where you are coming from, Opti. And it seems to me that Proxy is not the only one here who needs prayer and healing. I sense pain and hurt feelings of indignation in your words. And it's probably about more than Proxy's words here. It maybe incidents in your past or that of those close to you. As it is for me, because when I think of racism, I think of colonial rule in India and how my ancestors were treated.

Although, I've never had to directly face racism of any kind, I am sensitive to the issue and hence can relate to the way you feel. But, I've learnt that sometimes, in my zeal to defend the underdog, I read a lot more into the actions of the "guilty" party than is actually realistic. I'm still undecided on the question of whether Proxy is racist or not. He is stubborn and has strong opinions about a lot of things (some of which rub me the wrong way), but he can also be incredibly open-minded about some things on other occasions. So, I really don't know, whether he truly is as prejudiced as to be racist or whether it's just one of his mood swings taken to an extreme where he snaps at the first thing that irritates him and lets things get out of hand.

Sorry to discuss you like this, Darwin. But, I thought since I consider you my friend, I needed to let Opti know what I know about you, because he may be blaming you for more than what you deserve blame for.

Yes, Opti, Proxy is my friend and we've disagreed on things before and in my interaction with him over the past year or so, he's been very nice to me. Not exactly what you would expect from a racist. Nah, he isn't as bad as you think he is, but he has some really bad habits that might need the kind of tough love you're trying to mete out That is why I didn't want to interfere except to make sure you didn't totally misunderstand him.

I feel like I'm walking a tight-rope, so I'll end my little speech and respect your idea of putting an end to this thread. That is how I feel about it too.

Okie firstly you got all this information from some dumb American TV channel!!!
So with all this outsourcing and crap going on I would be surprised if America pointed another finger at us. I mean what is it with your country??? Can you not for a single minute not think people are trying to put you down????
You dont let Iraq be coz it has the oil. You dont let India be now coz it has the brains?!?!?!?!
And full of yourself are you that you screen people coming into your country by fingerprinting???
You dont even let out young people come there to study coz you are so insecure.
What about you adopting all our practices of yoga and meditation???
For god sake, you people of all the country have no right to even open your mouth one teenie tiny bit!!!!
You guys just feel free to camp in our territory adopt our traditions and completely distort them!!!!!!
You don't even respect our gods. its just another trend for you to follow while it almost amounts to sacrilage for most of us... maybe not that strong but almost....

agreed we are backward in quite a few areas but come on if you knew one thing about india you would sure as hell know that this women burning thing happens in less than 30 percent of the areas.... even lesser and those are the EXTREMELY remote areas...

And all in all DW I think all the comments are too harsh for you to pass without knowing anything in detail....
I mean even though your country is pretty screwed up in its own right you would like us to say things like no kid is safe in it mentally or physically.... and other such stuff like it.

and as for saying that we have no god if you knew even a thing about our culture you'd know we have as many gods as you have saints and even more and we belive in all of them, even if most of us dont follow each others religions.
its the stupid monkeys from your country who dont know how to respect them.

I didn't go to vote!! I had Milind Deora standing. Congress ka congress aur acha khasa candidate bhe.
But I had my Exams and was too worked up about them to go Vote!!!! Shameful it is but its true!!!!

Just the last post about this topic....
Was talking to a friend about this link and have to post what he said.
We sure maybe the Land of the Ignorant but there is no other place but America that you can call Land of the Arrogant.

Wow! I am away for a while and all hell breaks loose.

Just a few observations here:

1. Gemini in my opinion if you are going to attack the U.S. and generalize all Americans as being "arrogant" than you are in no position to be upset over what Prox said about Indians. Although you stated it was a friend of yours who made that statement apparently you agree with what he said or you wouldn't have repeated it. You made a very truthful and important point though when you stated that with all the American jobs being lost to outsourcing to India I am afraid the result of that is going to be a lot of backlash against Indians. That is unfortunate but nonetheless the way it goes as people are people everywhere. Just last month alone in Michigan another 3,500 jobs were sent to India. Not because Indians have the "brains" or are more intelligent than Americans as your statement suggested (which sounded rather arrogant in itself) but because your people will work for a whole lot less pay than Americans are used to getting. If not for that fact worldwide there would be no outsourcing. The name of Corporate game is profit. Nor does the U.S. "keep" anyone here who comes to this country for an education. Those students are not being held captive in the U.S. The truth is that many of them come here on grants for an education and do not return to India because they discover they can make more money in the U.S. That is particularly true in the medical profession.

2. Suchi and Ani you have both conducted yourself honorably as usual and that in itself is a prime example of what the Indian peoples truly are as a whole. You eloquently expressed yourselves without attacking either Prox or the U.S. but only pointed out the truth, we do need to clean up our own backyard in the U.S. before we go pointing a finger at other nations. There is evil everywhere in the world and in every society and there are many evils in the U.S. In fact, most Americans would prefer that our government clean up our own backyards and right the wrongs here before taking over other governments as they have done in Iraq.

I think that if nothing else Prox did shake a few folks around here out of the general malaise that has been going on at CE for months now. Whether that was his intention for posting as he did or not I don't know. God knows Opti has done enough analyzing of the psychology of Prox for all of us so I am not going to analyze him any further. Though I know your intentions were good, Opti and that you meant well.

What I got from Prox's post is that he was very concerned about the treatment of women in India as I am certain he is also concerned about how women are treated in the U.S. and other parts of the world. Truth does hurt at times but it should be spoken nonetheless. If Prox had just posted without all the anger in his words the chances are it might have just been ignored and not commented on at all. Sometimes people have to be shaken out of their comfortable niches. This is not to say that I agree with all that Prox said or in any way see the people of India as being barbaric, brutal, or the men as a whole as being as Prox described them. I do think his anger is indicative of his outrage from being made aware of certain treatments of women in India. As Suchi and Greg pointed out those things, and worse, happen all over the world but in this case Prox was addressing what he learned was taking place in India.

What sort of human being is Prox? Opti, he is a very caring human being or he would not have been so angered and outraged over what he saw on the T.V. show regarding the treatment of women in India. And it makes no difference if it happens in only 30% of population, even that is too much. But India does not have the monopoly on evils or crimes against women. Women are mistreated all over the world and the U.S. is no exception. No where in the world are women exploited sexually more than in the U.S. and most of the bimbos go along with it willingly to make money.

One of the good points that Prox may have made with this thread, intentionally or not, is that instead of looking for hidden messages and "signs" in paintings and books, look around at what is going on our world, be outraged over the evils you see and discuss them to help find a loving solution. As they used to say way back in the 60's "if you aren't part of the solution - you are part of the problem." A very good saying I think. A lot of people don't see politics and world events as a part of helping them to become more spiritual. Truth is that the world is what we make it and if we are not helping to make it better than we are not becoming more spiritual. Spirituality and politics go hand and hand. The political involvement is spirituality in action. I see someone like Prox who becomes angry and outraged over the evil he sees around him in the world as more spirituality evolved as a human being than anyone who just repeats mantras and prays all day long. His anger is honest and he may not express himself in the most positive ways at times but he speaks his mind honestly and with integrity and I can't help admire that in him. Though I don't agree with all he says - I know he speaks it honestly.

Love, Connie

Okie....
Have very very little time so will be quick.

• I realise my tone was rude but really did not mean any harm. I love Darwin and did not in anyway mea to lash out against him.
• No. I don't believe in the statement my friend made. I know a couple of Americans personally and they are not arrogant. Hence my belief that the country is not.
• I did not mean India has the brains nor did I intend to show any superiority. I believe the reason the outsourcing in the technical field is happening (that's where most of the jobs are lost ) is due to the fact that more and more Indians are picking technical electives in coll and more and more Americans (seem to be) picking un-technical fields.
• I belive the quality of education there is better and hence I think it's a little more than that when it comes to letting students get entry into the US. You just have to go to the Visa office here to know. Do remember to sit in for the student visa interview!!!
• I understand that Darwin must have been concerned abt the women here but hey that is no excuse for bad mouthing the men. (Not that I am really happy with the condition here either. But it's a completely diff thing the way he said it.)

DW,
I love you!
Sorry if I was rude before. Pls accept apology.

Love,
Shruti!

Gemini your reaction and how you expressed it was completely understandable. Maybe moreso to me with my firey temperment than most folks here. You reacted as most people would at percieving your country as being bad mouthed. We all love our countries of birth and are proud to be citizens of those nations. It's national pride.

To apologize as you did in your post shows you to be a person with a big heart and humility and that is admirable. I know that Prox would prefer to have his teeth pulled without anything to relieve the pain than apologize but that's just our Prox. He probably regrets having expressed himself as he did too.

I have kind of learned to look for what Prox is saying rather than how he says it. Maybe that comes from conditioning because he reminds me so much of my husband, Butch who has the same way of expressing his honest opinions. He just throws it out there without being overly concerned of who he may offend. Blunt honesty is what I call it. Also he sees the nicey, nicey talk as being phoney and dishonest and I think that maybe at times Prox thinks the same thing. Though I certainly am not trying to speak for Prox. Just explaining why I tend to be defensive of him at times and at times I have also gotten on his case for what I saw as being out of line.

I still think that outsourcing is due to nothing more than corporate greed. Outsourcing jobs has created a circle. Americans are not taking technical courses in college because the technical jobs are no longer available. Indians are taking those classes because the job market is there for technical skills. It all boils down to where the money is both for workers and the corporations.

Here is the U.S. we now have to wait longer for our medical test results to come back because even our x-rays are being faxed to India to be read. What are the odds of mistakes taking place having it done that way? Pretty high I would say with all those extra people involved in analyzing our medical tests. But the insurance companies save money that way and that is all that concerns them.

We should not be angry at Indians for outsourcing though. They too have families to care for and if the jobs are there then why shouldn't they take them? We would! We wouldn't question where the jobs came from, only be happy that they are there.

We may all end up being Indians if that is where we have to go for jobs.

Love, Connie

Hi Connie,

Thanks for coming down and helping Shruti out. I was hoping someone like you would.


I know the people here are upset with me personally as I have had tiffs with many of them. I know they are tired of hearing my opinions.
But the underlying motives on this thread are mostly jealousy, possessive control, revenge, deception, and paranoia from past issues and personal issues.
Nothing to do with this topic.
(I checked my kitchen drawer and none of the spoons were bent.)

The topic intention was to lead into the discussion of the motives of various groups trying to control India's population growth. India is about to have another big one. In short, depending on how the population is controlled and the government's model of capitalism will affect the longevity of India's freedom and the numbers of people that are supported while the rest settle to the bottom. (So, why didn't you just say that, Darwin?)
I don't know. Sometimes I get way ahead of myself.

However, it is a lot of typing and in light of the article of the New Moon report that Kelly's link updated, there seems to be an overwhelming probability that there are many sudden changes about to occur. I cannot even keep up with all that is crumbling into the sea of the past.

I am sorry my debate topic was on the edge of your sensitivities.

Well, that's all I have for now.




Hi Shruti,

You couldn't make me not love you because I know what's inside your heart.
I understand where you coming from.
I love you, too.

((((((HUGS)))))) Prox

What you stated about the population control in India is something that I had not been aware of until now. So I do appreciate you bringing it to our attention. I was aware that forced population control is something they do in China where they actually force women to use birth control devices.

I think that in the U.S. the push for population control is done in more subtle ways. There is a subtle form of brain washing done in this country through the use of the media. In the push to get Americans to stop smoking there has been a media campaign to put pressure on those who continue to smoke. Negativity is attached to it and smokers are made to be almost outcasts in our society. No one wants to be an outcast so they give in to the pressure to stop smoking. Now there is a similar campaign about weight. The powers that be have decided that Americans are overweight and so the campaign begins in the media to brain wash us about the negativity of that. Forget that some people are overweight due to medical reasons such as thyroid problems to name but one. Those people will made to feel guilty and outcast in our society through no fault of their own. I think since the 60's that subtle type of brainwashing has been used in the U.S. to make women who have a lot of kids outcast or looked down on in our society. Having a lot of kids is believed to be a negative thing today whereas when I was growing up no one thought anything of it. How many times have you seen a woman with a lot of little kids and either thought or said, "Doesn't she know about birth control?"

The question is whether or not even the subtle type of brain washing they employ in the U.S. and countries like Canada and England which changes the mindset of whole societies to suit whatever the government agenda is any different. Although it is better than being burned or otherwise put to death it is nonetheless forced in my mind if it makes you an outcast in society or looked down on in any way because you think differently. Or as the case may be, if it makes a woman have to choose between her religious beliefs ( as it pertains to religions such as Roman Catholicism where birth control is still prohibited ) or what the society around her is pressuring her to do.

Why is the burden of birth control always put on the women anyway? Men are equally responsible for creating new life.

Love, Connie

Darwin, Darwin... Darwin, I always know that if I open a thread posted by you, it will be entertaining

Always so cutting in the manner you express yourself, and the responses posted by others bring enlightment, information and food for thought.

It was quite a read and I agree with all of you on many levels.

I also am reminded that the road is long before the many sad attrocities mentioned here are no longer and every women/men/children black, white, red and yellow live equally and in peace together.

It's a crasy world all around, but for as long as their are good hearted people from every country of this planet earth, it will continue turning and hopefully evolving.

hey darwin,

i interpreted your post as racist and angry. what's up? how are your transits looking? how's your view on life transforming?

amykins skywalker

Hi Amy,

Nothing is up. Sometimes my experiments go right into the toilet and this one happen to pull in a few turds with it.

Sorry, but the only way you're getting me on a couch is if you lye down on it first.

The transits just are, and they happen to be going against my essence and the part in my hair. Looks like Uranus will have to kick me into another world, coz I do not like this one.

How have my views changed ...

I think if you watched the movie "Harry meets Sally" backwards, it would be pretty close.

You and Tinker should get together and solve your rage problems.
Take notes for Suchi and Shruti.

Love and Hugs,
Darwin

eh D

Oh Dear or Dear!



Just pointing out that you you're not so hot on manners yourself.

As for the different cultural issues between the US and India. Do you think that camp X is leagal? That's the Us's doing - uncivilised, illegal and against the geneva convention. That's deliberate and being done by a so called civilised country. Look at the reports of torture in Iraq, hardly civilised hardly showing a compasionate contry(ies) at work?

The rest of the world has cultures that different. They seem harsh and nasty from a western point of view. However from an eastern point of view, the west has no values, respect for each other...should they invade and force their values on us?

As for your views, try lonely planet, read about the cultures involved before you cast such harsh judgement on an entire continent. You never know, you might just find an eduction and get a motivation to see them for yourself?

Connie - Roman Catholics have two forms of contraception - abstenance and rythem, also the biss method. The first also prevents deseases as well LOL

Hey Amy - hope you're doin well

Lov n hugs

L

Hey Darwin,

Starting threads on the internet isn't going to change the world and close down brothels.

I'm not going to lecture with long dissertations like the folks here have. They're too nice and are giving you a benefit of a doubt. Do you feel it? *Pat Pat by CE members* Now who's the one being treated with benevolence?

This whole thing is shallow and you know it.

Amy

Hi Proxy

WOW! Well..one thing i will say...the love of my life was Indian..Punjabi to be precise...and I can agree..they CAN be frustrating. But I simply cant agree with all you are saying. Are we perfect? Are we all living perfectly with God? Do You REALLY think all indians burn women and children. For the love of God, I know many indians, and they would all be apalled by this.

IS it terri> The Mod? Hes right, we all have probelms in EVERY CULTURE..have you ANY idea how many good things come out of India? HAve you ANY idea that its the last place on earth where they are still holding on to their children and NOT allowing them to grow up too soon? Teaching them , in my opinion, REAL family values. And to respect themsleves? The kind of thing that we are striving for in America, but cant seem to acheive, uor youth is going farthur and farthut over the deep end. They may in some places hold on to some worn out Ideas. Well..we all have our bad sides.

Also..ther are for a FACT ( im not going to name names now, they may come forward themselves) 2 Indian memebers here at this site.

Hmmm....should keep this in mind.

Cheers! MoonMaiden

Hi Moon Maiden

Welcome back I just wanted to point out that this thread is a pretty old one and was fortuantley put to bed. We have lots more than 2 Indian members, though many of them are "quiet". The two noiser ones more then make up for it

I hope you'll stay around and visit some of our more uplifting threads, or start some new ones of your own.

Love,
Terri

http://www.pbs.org/


http://www.pbs.org/now/


http://www.pbs.org/now/thisweek/index.html


http://www.pbs.org/now/thisweek/index.html


http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/financialstate.html <<<<==== We must have smooooooooth for the water signs. i.e. Uncle Sam uses your own defense agaist the fearful and those in denial. Right this way to the gas chambers. Don't worry it's nice and quite, and coffy, and ...


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4117735 <<<<==== Roll the credits.

.................... ~*~M O O N~*~M A I D E N~*~ ......................







Nice to have you back with us.....and as Terri suggested please feel free to join us on some of the other forums....and let us know more about yourself...

Love,
Rainbow .

Hi terri..I noticed that after I replied ( it is old) hehehe....

Oh heavens YES, Ill visit more uplifting one, do not worry, I just happned to be looking to see "who's online" and I chanced to see somone reading a thread by this title, I cudnt resist reading it.