All Ways a hook to pull You hear.

But neverTheless, some room for ponderance indeed.


A Fabled Tail told Time and Time a gain with some hidden meaning deep in it's Simplest Imagery. A Folk Lore of Minds,... since the first Word was Lost...as Consciously Evolved Soles sought to explain our Presents hear and our plight to reSource our Selves back Home.


All the debate over our reasoning of why Earthlings, Humans specifically,...must struggle to survive Being Alive. When All Others seem effortlessly caught in Life's Web. Ebbing and Flowing...Reaping and sowing...Never finding the need to Speak such Lore of distant Beginnings.....or Quest -Ion them.
So What IS Original Sin? Is is a Human claim to Fame?Is it our arrival Here? Or purrhaps our departure from somewhere else? Is it a Quest-ion?

Being Born to Flesh?
Creating Birth through Flesh?
Speaking the first Quest-Eon?
Giving the First...And Sir?
Is Original Sin a Thought?
Is Original Sin a Feeling? OR
Is Orinal Sin an Act?....By which People have created pertpetual Redemption? Hmmmmm. May Be. MayBE knot.

Seems to me...there is more to The Story than the Earliest Believers received via their "Nightly News"....
Speaking and Eating were major themes in that Fabled Story...Questioning and Seeking....Finding and Trying....
Tasting and Knowing Feeling...at One with this Knew Body...Simultaneously Be Coming the Creator of the Creature.

Could the Quest actually lead to the Source in the Garden where full Self Realization happens, simultaneously with Guilt and Blame? The Heaven and Hell of Consciousness repeated throughout eternity perpetually by Birth a Lone? Sheeesh. Nice Place to visit but....



What IS Original Sin?

I really wanna Know.



Chahlie

No seriously Folks...just pondering Crazies of parenting a Sixth Month Old. Don't Mind me.

Hi Chahlie,

What a good question! I did a little Bible thumping...here are some interesting verses I found...

Proverbs 10:16
The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin.

I John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Considering the whole apple fiasco in the Garden of Eden...many Bible verses with apple refer to the "apple of the eye."

Psalms 17:8
Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings,

Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

A few Original Sin thoughts to ruminate upon...

LOve&LIght,
STephanie

Much to ponder on here, Chahlie.

Quote:

---

All the debate over our reasoning of why Earthlings, Humans specifically,...must struggle to survive Being Alive. When All Others seem effortlessly caught in Life's Web. Ebbing and Flowing...Reaping and sowing...Never finding the need to Speak such Lore of distant Beginnings.....or Quest -Ion them.

---

Ignorance is bliss is the road that many follow. " The road less traveled" is harder and full of questions that many times don't have a knowable answer. We haven't even thought of most of the questions. But I think the journey down that harder road is so much more rewarding even with all the uncertainty that goes along with it. It takes a great leap of faith and the ability to live in doubt to follow that path. It takes a lot of trust and belief in something more than ourselves. Something greater than ourselves.

It was man who invented and attached the word "Sin" onto our major goof ups as human beings. God gives us a lot of rope and he knew from the beginning that if you give a cowboy enough rope he will hang himself. Waiting anxiously here for the big cowboy, George W. Bush, to prove the accuracy of that adage and I know he will eventually. God knew we would mess up big time. Sometimes I wonder why God even bothered bringing us into being. I cannot comprehend the amount of love that it took to do that. No one can.

I think from the beginning of time we humans realized that we could capitalize on that innate feeling of guilt and shame by attaching the word "Sin" to certain acts and thus control others with a wagging finger. God is much less condemning than we are or he wouldn't allow us so much freedom to screw up. I think that God instead uses our screw ups to teach us rather than point a wagging finger at us. Everything in Scripture clearly points that out.
( Listen up, Jerry Farwell and Pat Robinson. Get a clue. )

In that fable you speak of, Chahlie, concerning "The Fall" of mankind, if we notice, it was not God who pointed the finger of shame and guilt at Adam and Eve. They did it to themselves. Instead God asked them, " Who told you that you were naked?" I didn't tell you that. What God did after that was to immediately do as God always does, he covered their shame. He sought to alleviate it. He sat about righting the wrong that was done. Bringing Good out of the Evil we do to ourselves. What Adam and Eve did was exactly what we all do to this day when we know we have messed up big time, they both denied responsibilty and blamed it on the other one. That passage in Scripture always struck me as funny, I guess in an ironic way, just because it so clearly and truthfully points out human nature.

I do find humor in certain stories in Scripture. Like the incident with Jesus and the man who was possessed by a "legend" of demons for years. Jesus "exorcised" the demons out of the man and into a herd of pigs who immediately ran and jumped off a cliff and into the sea. It strikes me as funny that the man lived quite comfortably with those demons for years and years but the pigs would rather kill themselves then live with the demons. Makes one wonder if humans actually are smarter than animals. It's like the animals during the Tsunami who took to high ground before it's arrival. I sort of visualize them wondering why those humans are still on the beach and in the water. But I digress. I have been reading too much George Carlin.

I think the "Original Sin" that brought about the Fall of Mankind, or the separation that happened between man and God and the separation it caused within ourselves, was not that man disobeyed God ( God said "Don't eat the fruit of the tree of life in the center of the garden"...so they disobeyed God and ate it anyway ). I think the orginal sin was a refusal to love and accept ourselves as we are. Instead we always want to be more than what we are, have more than what we have, be somehow better than others. We are not content to "be like God, created in His image" we instead want to be Gods ourselves. We are all about acheiving, competing, and collecting all we can for ourselves so that somehow we are superior to others. We have a need to be smarter, prettier, richer and in general have more toys than the next guy. Mankind suffers from a mass inferiority complex and that is in so many ways destroying the world and leading us to our own demise in the process. It's all anti-spirituality because to get back to that center, to get back to the oneness with God and all of creation that God created us to attain God asks us all to become nothing...to attain that Zero point of our own egos. Jesus said it...he said that we have to "die to yourselves." As Father Richard Rohr so eloquently described it in his speeches and writings, spirituality is not about attaining, it's not about climbing up the staircase, it's about going down, going down the staircase until we become nothing, want nothing more than to attain oneness with God and creation, want nothing for ourselves and... horror of horrors...want instead to be the least of all mankind. Wow! Try to sell that one to corporate America. "Those who are last will be first," is the way Jesus said it.

We all sin is just another way of saying we all mess up. We all fall short of what we are destined by birthright and creation to be. There was an original mess up at the beginning of creation by mankind that messed up the balance of nature in general...maybe cutting us off from the Source of the driving energy of creation...God Energy...caused the subsequent inbalance of nature that create the destructive forces in nature. Or maybe it is just due to the fact that God is still creating ...never stops creating... and he isn't through with the planet or us. The planet is still being transformed into what God wants it to be and so are we. Original Sin makes the trip harder with a lot more suffering. In other words, we make it harder on ourselves and each other in the process, than it has to be.

God knew from the beginning it was all going to happen and he wanted us to be here anyway. Hard for us to imagine he wanted a few folks here that we could point out though. But he did. We all screw up so I think we should be less hard on ourselves and each other when we do. We should follow God's example that way. No wagging fingers and all that hellfire and damnation stuff. That would be following Jerry Farwell and Pat Robinison's example instead.

Just my ramblings. The question of Original Sin is very thought provoking, Chahlie.

Love, Connie

A very COOL conversation Chilldren&Moonflow...&would like 2hear more...Are there any more Theologians out hear?

I found this on The Old Farmer's Almanac...

Quote:

---

Q Have you ever heard of the Feast of Adam and Eve?

A Yes, though it's not a feast day that's noted much any more. It was popular in the middle ages. To mark the day and the "original sin" that was Adam's and Eve's downfall, it was popular to act out the scene in a Christian "mystery play" on December 24. As a prop, an evergreen called the Paradise tree was hung with red apples, a custom which is surely a precursor to our current Christmas tree traditions.

---

I was doing some research on St. Gregory the Great and found this also at The Old Farmer's Almanac. I thought you all might find interesting...

Quote:

---

Q Where did the term "cardinal sin" originate?

A A cardinal sin is the same as a deadly sin, a product of early Christian monasticism and Saint Gregory the Great of the late sixth century. The seven deadly sins are vainglory (pride), covetousness, lust, envy, gluttony, anger, and sloth. They were classified as "deadly" not only because they were serious moral offenses but also because they frequently resulted in the commission of other sins. These days, "cardinal sin" is popularly used for any major sin.

---

Love&LIght,
Stephanie

Here's something I found that seems to belong here... I'm not sure I usderstand what it all means yet esp. the end part

Of Christ's role as the second Adam, St. Gregory the Great wrote:

Quote:

---

If the first man had not sinned, the Second would never have come to the insults of the Passion . . . . If the first Adam had not by his voluntary sin dragged in death for the soul, the Second Adam would not, without sin, have come to a voluntary death of the flesh . . . . Our Mediator could not be punished on His own account because He had done no moral wrong. But if He not accepted what He did not deserve, He would never have freed us from a death that was deserved. The Father, therefore, being just, disposes all things justly when He punishes the Just One, for He justifies all creation by condemning on behalf of sinners Him that is without sin.

---

LOve&LIght,
Stephanie

Made You look.

There's somethin bout Sin that is so tempting...

But seriously Folks, these ARE the jokes.

The concepts and beliefs that are endowed and adorned to Us as a Conscious Species, amazes me.
Continuously perpetuating heritage and tradition, without Ever QuestIoning it's Origin and PurePose.

Only announcing Our Beliefs about what is meant by
The Words.
Arguing fervently Our Stance on their inter Pretation...
While Freely accepting the discourse of It's retribution.
Sowing what we reap
Spending most of our Time searching for MEaning....
...MEaning to the Words...
MEaning to the Thoughts.....MEaning to the PurePose
.....MEaning to the Source....MEaning to ME.
For after All,...
Is it not YOU who is ME? And I Who is ME?

WE are ME are WE not?
Singulary Sole Searching
for the Original Sin
that BEgan this Quest,
Ever So
Long Ago...

Before there where Words.

But since we have Words.... Let Us Play.

Halo Stephanie. Let the Ruminating BEgin...
Ah Yes The GooD BooK
Yes...I Love what the GooD BooK says about Great Many a Thing. So cleverly phrased to make One Ponder....

What IF the reversed were versed(flip that) and it were"......"The Fruit of the Righteous tendeth to Life: the labor of the Wicked to Sin?" (Reap Sow Stuff)

And in John there..( which I like alot, BTW.) John is Cool.

"He thatCommiteth Sin....(an Act indeed) is OF the devil...(Which is a Whole Nother Thread )
for the devil sinneth( two Acts ) FROM the BEginning.
For this PurPose the Sun of God was manifested, that he may destroy ( a pretty serious Third Act I'de say) the works of the devil."

Ooo That ProVerbs One gets me though...
"Keep me commandments and Live....
and my law
as the apple of Thine eye(I)."

I see a Pentagram in the Pineal Gland hear...
With a Maze of UnderStanding.
Structured so Perfectly
In such A Core Dance.
There is no Need for Will.
But Once Will is Exerted
It Tempts Fate to inter pretate Destiny.
Inviting Consciousness to inter Fear.
Creating Commandments
to allow Witness.
Or as I call It....MEaning.


To Thine OWN Will,
Be done.

Some Good Stuff There Stephanie.

I lika.










"I can resist anything but Temptation" O. Wilde

Halo MooNFLoWeR...

Yes...The Original Sin all ways got ME. Somehow,..
IT all Ways came down to Sin.
No matter what the take or Angle...
No matter who is BEhind the Pulp It
Mo matter what Verse or Chapter...
Time or People
Old or New Testimony....
Sin came into Play.

The Pure Pose of God.

To Allow Love into Thine Eye.

It is a Ironical paradox indeed!

Sin creating the need For Giveness
and forgiveness allowing for getness.
For Goodness Sake!



PS I love Your Ramblings....

Hi Chahldean!

I looked OMGosh I've just been dyin' to post this shiny apple fun fact...bon apetite...served with brie cheese and warm bread...Honeycrisps are my personal favorite, but we're stuck with Pink Ladies until later in the season...

Quote:

---

Bad Seed

Claim: Apple seeds contain a cyanide compound.

Status: True.

Origins: When we think of dangers lurking in our food, we tend to concentrate on the threats posed by chemical additives or by improper and careless handling. Yet the truth is that we routinely come into contact with naturally occurring poisons in a number of the fruits we ingest.

Apples are one such fruit: their pips (seeds) contain amygdalin, a cyanide and sugar compound that degrades into hydrogen cyanide (HCN) when metabolized. Cyanide itself is a poison that kills by denying blood the ability to carry oxygen and thereby causes its victims to die of asphyxiation. At least within the realm of murder mysteries, cyanide is the darling of poisoners because it acts quickly and irrevocably â€" once a fatal dose has been ingested, there is no effective antidote, and death takes place within minutes. It is sometimes described as having a bitter almond smell, but it does not always give off an odor, nor can everyone detect the scent. Cyanide is usually found joined with other chemicals in compounds: hydrogen cyanide, cyanogen chloride, sodium cyanide, and potassium cyanide. In the death camps of World War II, the Nazis used hydrogen cyanide (Zyklon B) for their gas chambers.

Luckily for those fond of their Granny Smiths, the body can detoxify cyanide in small doses, and the number of apple seeds it takes to pack a lethal punch is therefore huge â€" even the most dedicated of apple eaters is extremely unlikely to ingest enough pips to cause any harm. Yet those who have heard apple seeds house a poison (usually remembered as arsenic, a quite different though equally deadly compound) cling to the frightening belief that swallowing a small number of pips spells instant death. We've had folks fret to us that ingesting as few as three apple seeds would do someone in, a "fact" which, if true, would mean each and every one of us was flirting with the grim reaper every time we made a grab for a Delicious.

Apple pips also have a tough protective coating which makes swallowing them even less of a risky proposition; unless the pips are pulverized or masticated, the amygdalin they house remains safely contained within. Apple pips have hard, durable shells that allow them to pass intact through the digestive systems of animals, a quality which helps the apple to reproduce by distributing its seeds to new locations far from the originating trees. Were apple pips susceptible to the eroding effects of digestive juices, apple trees could not reproduce nearly as well as they do â€" their seeds would not be so widely spread, and a good many of the pips would be destroyed before germinating.

Cherry, peach, and apricot pits also contain amygdalin; the latter two, at least, in potentially harmful amounts. Fortunately, peach and apricot pits are sufficiently large and hard that few people intentionally swallow or chew them. (The unapproved anti-cancer drug Laetrile is a semisynthetic derivative of amygdalin; a cheaper version of laetrile produced in Mexico came from crushed apricot pits.)

A far greater natural source of cyanide is the cassava root, a vegetable favored by many in Africa. (Westerners know this plant best as tapioca.) Drying, soaking, and baking cassava roots renders its cyanide precursor, linamarin, harmless, but if that process is not carried out properly the cassava can remain poisonous.

---

Link to article: http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/apples.asp


Genesis 2:9
And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Song of Solomon 2:3
As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.

Song of Solomon 8:5
Who is this that cometh up from the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved? I raised thee up under the apple tree: there thy mother brought thee forth: there she brought thee forth that bare thee.


LOve&LIght,
Stephanie

Hello,

Interesting topic indeed Chahldean. WHY ARE WE HERE?

I was in the middle of a long post, quoting samples from A Course In Miracles... After posting a lot of them, I scrolled up, and they were all gone. ?? !!

I know I sound like a broken record on this site about A Course in Miracles, but it has been helping me crystallize my theology.

The theme of A Course in Miracles is the Garden of Eden story, which continues.

Well, this is not what I had been posting, I had posted many samples throughout the book. Does Merc Rx take a little while to end? But I'll quote from the chapter on THE SEPARATION AND THE ATONEMENT
I The Origins of Separation
To extend is a fundamental aspect of God which He gave to His Son. In the creation, God extended Himself to His crations and imbued them with the same loving Will to create. You have not only been fully created, but have also been created perfect. There is no emptiness in you. Because of your likeness to your Creator you are creative. No child of God can lose this ability because it is inherent in what he is, but he can use it inappropriately by projecting. The inappropriate use of extension, or projection, occurs when you believe that some emptiness or lack exists in you, and that you can fill it with your own ideas instead of truth. This process involves the following steps:
First, you believe that what God created can be changed by your own mind.
Second, you believe that what is perfect can be rendered imperfect or lacking.
Third, you believe that you can distort the creations of God, including yourself.
Fourth, you believe that you can create yourself, and that he direction of your own creation is up to you.

These related distortions represent a picture of what actually occurred in the separation, or the "detour into fear." None of this existed before the separation, nor does it actually exist now. Everything God created is like Him. Extension, as undertaken by God, is similar to the inner radiance that the children of the Father inherit from Him. Its real source is internal. This is as true of the Son as of the Father. In this sense the creation includes both the creation of the Son by God, and the Son's creations when his mind is healed. This requires God's endowment of the Son with free will, because all loving creation is freely given inone continuous line, in which all aspects are of the same order.

The Garden of Eden, or the pre-separation condition, was a state of mind in which nothing was needed. When Adam listened to the "lies of the serpent," all he heard was untruth. You do not have to continue to believe what is not true unless you choose to do so. All that can literally disappear in the twinkling of an eye because it is merely a misperception. What is seen in dreams seems to be very real. Yet the Bible says that a deep sleep fell upon Adam, and nowhere is there reference to his waking up. The world has not yet experienced any comprehensive reawakening or rebirth. Such a rebirth is impossible as long as you continue to project or miscreate. It still remains within you, however, to extend as God extended His Spirit to you. In reality this is your only choice, becuase your free will was given you for your joy in creating the perfect.

All fear is ultimately reducible to the basic misperception that you have the ability to usurp the power of God. Of course, you neither can nor have ben able to do this. Here is the real basis for your escape from fear. the escape is brought about by your acceptance of the Atonement, which enables you to realize that your errors never really occurred. Only after the deep sleep fell upon Adam could he experience nightmares. If a light is suddenly turned on while someone is dreaming a fearful dream, he may initially interpret the light itself as part of his dream and be afraid of it. However, when he awakens, the light is correctly perceived as the release from the dream, which is then no longer accorded reality. This release does not depend on illusions. The knowledge that illuminates not only sets you free, but shows you clearly that you ARE free.

Whatever lies you may believe are of not concern to the miracle, which can heal any of them with equal ease. It makes no distinctions among misperceptions. Its sole concern is to distinguish between truth on the one hand and error on the other. Some miracles may seem to be of greater magnititude than others. But remember the first principle in this course; there is no order of difficulty in miracles. In reality you are perfectly unaffected by all expressions of lack of love. These can be from yourself and others, from yourself to others, or from others to you. Peace is an attribute IN you. You cannot find it outside. Illness is some form of external searching. Health is inner peace. It enables you to remain unshaken bylack of love from without and capable, through your acceptance of miracles, of correcting the conditions proceeding from lack of love in others.

II The Atonement as Defense

You can do anything I ask. I have asked you to perform miracles, and have made it clear that miracles are natural, corrective, healing and universal. There is nothing they cnanot do, but they cannot be performed in the spirit of doubt or fear. When you are afraid of anything, you are acknowledging its power to hurt you. Remember that where you rheart is, there is your treasure also. You believe in what you value. If you are afraid, you are valuing wrongly. Your understanding will then inevitably value wrongly, and by endowing all thoughts with equal power will inevitably destroy peace. That is why the Bible speaks of "the peace of God which passeth understanding." This peace is totally incapable of being shaken by errors of any kind. It denies the ability of anything not of God to affect you. This is the proper use of denial. It is not used to hide anything, but to correct error. It brings all error into the light, and since error and dearkness are the same, it corrects error automatically.

True denial is a powerful protective device. You can and should deny any belief that error can hurt you. Ths kind of denial is not a concealment but a correction. Your right mind dependson it. Denial of error is a strong defense of truth, but denial of truth resultsin miscreation, the projections of the ego. In the service of the right mind the denial of error frees the mind, and re-establishes he freedom of the will. When the will is really free it cannot miscreate, becuse it recognizes only truth.

You can defend truth as well as error. The means are easier to understandafter the value of the goal is firmly established. It is a question of what it is FOR. Everyone defends his treasure, and will do so automatically. The real questions are, what do you treasure, and how much do you treasure it? Once you have learned to consider these questions and to bring them into all your actions, ou wil have little difficulty in clarifying the means. The means are available whenever you ask. You can, however, save time if you do not protract this step unduly. The correct focus will shorten it immeasurably.

The Atonementis the only defense that cannot be used destructively because it is not a device you made. he Atonement principle was in effect long before the Atonement began. The principle waslove and the Atonement was an act of love. Acts were not necessary before the separation, because belief in space and time did not exist. It was only after the separation that the Atonement and the conditions necessary for its fulfillment were planned. Then a defense so splendid was needed that it could not bemisused, althought it could be refused. refusal could not, however, turn it into a weapon of attack, which is the inherent characteristic of other defenses. The Atonement thus becomes the only defense that is not a two-edged sword. It can only heal.

The Atonement was built into the space-time belief to set a limit onthe need for the belief itself, and ultimately to make learning complete. The Atonement is the final lesson. Learning itself, like the classrooms in which it occurs, is temporary. The ability to learn has no value when change is no longer necessary. The eternally creative have nothing to learn. You can learn to improve your perceptions, and can become a better and betterlearner. This will bring you into closer and closer accord with the Sonship; but the Sonship itself is a perfect creation and perfection is not a matter of degree. Only while there is a belief in differences is learning meaningful.

Evolution is a process in which you seem to proceed from one degree to the next. You correct your previous missteps by stepping forward. This process is actually incomprehensible in temporal temrs, because you return as you go forward. The Atonement is the device by which you can free yourself from the past asyou go ahead. It undoes your past errors, thus making it unnecessary for you to keep retracing yoursetps without advancing to your return. In this senseth eAtonement saves time, but like ht emiracle it serves, does not abolish it. As long as there is need for Atonement, there is need for time. But the Atonement as a completed plan has a unique relationship to time. Until the Atonement is complete, its various phases will proceed in time, but the whole Atonement stands at time's end. At that point the bridge of return has been built.

The Atonement is a total commitment. You may still think this is associated with loss, a mistake all the separated Sons of God make in one way or another. It is hard to believe adefense that cannot attackis the best defense. Thisis what is meant by "the meek shall inherit the earth." They will literally take it over because of their strength. A two-way defense is inherently weak precisely because it has two edges, and can be turned against you very unexpectedly. This possibility cannot be controlled except by miracles. The miracle turns the defense of Atonement to your real protection, and as you become more an dmore secureyou assume your natural talent of protecting others, knowing yourself as both a brother and a Son.
*****************************

End of quoting from the chapter... I'll leave off at that, as I still seem to be under the influence of Merc Rx...

Does this give any clarity about Original Sin?

Original Sin Original Innocence

THE ORIGINAL SIN

contains SAINT
TEN RINGS
ORIGINAL SIN NOT REAL
ATONE
and heaps more


ATLANTIS
contains SAINT SIN

Im stumped

Halo to You PD, thanks for stoppin by.

Yes....why ARE we hear? "we've all been here before...."

All of Us. INdivideually Whole. Pieces of a Puzzle looking to You Knight. Scattered about the Sphere; Being Born and dying all at Once. Changing both Time and perception in every Moment, we live and witness. Expeeriencing Life as we consume and grow. Allowing all stimuli to enter our existence and produce actions with our reactions. Further chain sequencing Future events that alter our presence....

Clarity. Hmmm.....Yes and No. May BE. I dig the Course in Miracles. Like many other programs of cognitive Thinking. Guding our Minds like roadmaps to possibilities and unknown destinations.... Probing our brains to Spiral beyond the mundane and tried and True.
But alas,....my Question stands.
What IS THE Original Sin?
Was there ONE?
Do we continue to do IT?
Or are we still paying for something we committed long ago.....
Is it innate?
Are we , by Nature, fallible imperfect BEings destined to continually screw up? And seek For Giveness?
Can Sin BE Origin-al?
Is Our Origin, a Sin to BEgin with?
Is this Origin Sin committed every Bearth?
Consumashun>?
Fornicashun?
Concepshun?
Incarnashun.... ?
Does the very Simple Act of BEing Born commit us to a Life of Repentance?
Are we for Ever destined to Work our Way back into Good Graces?
Purrhaps Sin, BEing innate to Hu-Mans, is a GOOD thing?
Making US real eyes, we are here for Greater Pure Poses?

If God, BEing Omniscient and All Loving, did in fact Create Us in His Image,...knowing very well perfection cannot BE RE-created,...why did we get stuck with the Sin?
The constant striving for perfection perhaps....
The need to BE Whole and unwanting....
The desire to BE perfect and complete.

At One with our Selves. As per before our physical arrival?

The Original Sin may have very well started long Before Life did.

We may just feel the need to continue to repentance.

Think about what we could actually accomplish as a Species if we weren't busy all the Time judging, discerning, accusing,denying and blaming each other All the Time.

The Original Sin may have been a rumor.



Chahles

Perhaps the "Sin" was not the indulgence (inevitable)...

but the plucking.



Trust vs. Haste.

Transmutation vs. Stagnation.

Change=Growth
Stagnation=Decay

No matter how beautifully perfect the Garden.

When the time is Ripe....knowledge will 'fall'.

Patience...Trust and Attunment with the Cycles.


It is a rumor....or more apt, a tumor.

Quote:

---

"You've arrived in the land
of a thousand different names

When the time is Ripe....knowledge will 'fall'.


Patience...Trust and Attunment with the Cycles."


Sum Words By Dove just deserve repeating!

---

Cool thread ALL!

* * * TRAFFIC * * *
Heaven Is in Your Mind
(Winwood/Capaldi/Wood)

You ride on the swing in and out of the bars
Capturing moments of life in a jar
Playing with children, acting as stars
Guiding your visions to heaven and heaven is in your mind
Take extra care not to lose what up feel
The apple you're eating is simple and real
Water the flowers that grow at your heel
guiding your visions to heaven and heaven is in your mind

------------------------------------------------------------------------
F.S. Music Ltd (PRS) & Island Music Ltd. (PRS)
All rights on behalf of F.S. Music Ltd. admin by
Warner-Tamerlane Publishing Corp (BMI)


Love,
Stephanie

could it be as simple as The Original S-in each of us is real...Kundalini Serpent Origins that is.
there was an interesting thread by Maria where this was mentioned as well " Rug Rats Regect The Raptor Rap "

Ever notice that Eve is not kicked out of the garden? Also has anyone noticed that there are two different creation stories in Genesis? One, the first, without imposed restrictions. Two the one with restrictions, and woman taken from man, not created together as in the first story. [list]

Ditto!...ON all 3 of your points Soloc.So if i may ask...what are your conclusions on theze three,that u have mentioned.?

Well Come 2C.E By The Way.

Hello Soloc,
and welcome to CE.

Quote:

---

Also has anyone noticed that there are two different creation stories in Genesis?

---

is this because there are two different types of God referred to in Genesis.The distinction is made when Lord God appears and when he is reffered to as Jehovah.
As at times he is a vengeful God.
Isnt it because the bible has been re written and added to by those who considered themselves as Gods.

Quote:

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Ever notice that Eve is not kicked out of the garden

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also wasn't Lilith the first wife of Adam who refused to lay beneath him and wanted to be treated as his equal, having being created as such. Therefore Eve is portreyed as the right kind of wife for Adam and kept there too b.t.w, esp then if she is made from his rib - thats insinuating she was created later. Did you know that women have an extra set of ribs compared to men.
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Yes indeed, Soloc, there are two versions of creation in the Book of Genesis. In fact they follow each other by chapter.

One, the story of Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden and all that was written by the Yahwaists and of the two it contains more poetic prose in it's story telling.

The second version is the Preistly version and when you read it you can tell it was written by priests because it is more dry in it's deliverance. Less flowing.

Whatever version you prefer, and I like the Yahwaist version better myself, they both make the same point...that in the beginning there was no-thing and from no-thing God created the heavens, the earth and all that is contained in it.

Love, Connie

Welcome Soloc !!! Nice meeting you!


* * * PINK CADILLAC * * *

You may think I’m fooling
For the foolish things I do
You may wonder how come I love you
When you get on my nerves like you do
Well baby, you know you bug me
There ain’t no Secret about that
Well come on over here and hug me
And, baby, I’ll spill the facts
Well, honey it ain’t your money
Cause baby I got plenty of that

I love you for your pink Cadillac
Crushed velvet seats
Riding in the back, oozing down the street
Waving to the girls
Feeling out of sight
Spending all my money on a Saturday night
Honey, I just wonder what you do there in back of your pink Cadillac
Pink Cadillac

Well now way back in the Bible, temptations always come along
There’s always somebody tempting you
Somebody into doing something they know is wrong
Well they tempt you man with silver and they tempt you sir with gold
And they tempt you with the pleasures that the flesh does surely hold
They say Eve tempted Adam with an apple
Man I ain’t going for that

I know it was her pink Cadillac
Crushed velvet seats
Riding in the back, oozing down the street
Waving to the girls
Feeling out of sight
Spending all my money on a Saturday night
Honey, I just wonder what you do there in back of your pink Cadillac

Now some folks say it’s too big and uses too much gas
Some folks say it’s too old and that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda, it’s bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there’s only one thing and one car that will do
Anyway we don’t have to drive it honey, we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

--Bruce Springsteen



Sat. night & just goofin' around...


LOve&LIght,
Stephanie

Yes, It is nice to meet you, Soloc.

I wanted to explain what I said about the two different versions of creation because you brought up a very good point. Before I did explain I had to go back and read my theology notes from Scripture class to refresh my memory. It's been a while.

The first five books of the Bible are known as The Pentateuch. They are Genesis,Exodus,Leviticus,Numbers and Deuteronomy. The Jews called all five books The Torah or The Law.

Within the first four books there are four Traditions, written at different times and with different theologies, just as the New Testament consists of different theologies or thoughts about God. Those four different Traditions in the first four books of the Old Testament are Yahwist ( written around 1000 B.C.), Elohist ( circa 965 B.C. ), Deuteronmist ( circa 720 B.C. ), and Priestly ( circa 580 B.C. ).

The theology of the Yahwist besides the fact that they called God "Yahweh" was that God walks and talks with us, there is stress on blessing, they used earthy terms or speech about God,their theology stresses the leaders, also they placed stress on Judah, they used narratives and stories, and called natives "Canaanites." Their writings were a lot more earthy, colorful and flowing in style. The Yahwist version of creation was the first written down during King David's time - 1000 B.C. though in the Bible it is in Genesis, Chapters 2 & 3.

The Priestly version of creation in Chapter 1 of Genesis was written after the exile of the Jews to Babylon. In Chapter 1 of the Priestly version of creation you will find they "borrowed" a lot from the Babylonians in explaining the universe, their cosmology and in general how it all got here and how we got here. Each civilization had it's own stories trying to explain this phenomenon. The Babylonian account of creation is called Enuma Elish. At first glance you see that the author of Chapter 1 of Genesis is telling the same story of creation, word for word and verse for verse as the Babylonian account of creation, Enuma Elish. But at closer inspection you find there are seven things in Genesis that differ from Enuma Elish.

1. There is one God, without sexual gender,alone from the start,

2. Who created from his goodness and wise plan a world of order,

3. in which matter is good and not the result of whim or magic,

4. but God's Word decrees what is to be and established limits,

5. he gave humans a place of honor, made in his own image;

6. they were to have responsibility over what was created

7. and share divine gifts of pro-creating life, sharing his sabbath rest and knowing God personally.

The Priestly Tradition or theology called God, Elohim, it had a cultic approach to God with stress on law obeyed. It used majestic speech about God, put stresses on the cultic, the writings were dry lists and schemata with stress on Judah and genealogy. Thus the use of genealogy lists. The Priestly Tradition begot the begottens.

Though those are the two versions of writings in the story of creation in Genesis there are, as I said, four different Traditions and writings in the first four books of the OT. The Elohist Tradition (theology) was that they called God Elohim, God speaks in dreams,etc., there was stress on the fear(awe)of the Lord, they wrote with a refined speech about God and stressed the prophetic, they used narratives and warnings,there was a stress on Northern Israel,using the term, "Horeb" for the mountains instead of Sinai. The Elohists called natives "Amorites."

The Deuteronomist Theology called God, Yahweh. Their approach is moralistic. They stress Mosaic obedience,used speech recalling God's work,there is stress on fidelity to Jerusalem, they use long, homilitic speeches, they stressed the whole land of Israel, they loved using military imagery, and their writings has many fixed phrases.

What is the major difference between the Yahwist ( the first version of creation written during the reign of King David ) and Priestly Traditions in describing creation? The Yahwist starting point is humanity, not the creation of the world. It wasn't until the exile that the Jews were concerned about not only human origins but the origin of the universe so the Priestly version of creation which was written after the exile began with the creation of the world.

Hope that helps some in understanding why there are two versions of creation in the bible in Genesis, Ch. 1 and Genesis Ch. 2 & 3.

Love, Connie

Thanks very much for explaining that, Connie. I knew some of it, but not all.

Maria

Hi Connie & All,

Thanks for the refresher and adding to the thread!
I have a book wholey dedicated to Lilith (Adam's supposed disobedient first wife)...adding it to my list of things to do...

I'm also adding Genesis chapters 1-3. King James Version as distributed by BiblePlus(public domain).


Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Genesis 3
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.



LOve&LIght,
Stephanie

WOW talk about food for thought....but I'll stick to my guns and carry forth my same opnion.

I think humans are the only inhabitant of earth that have a conscious mind to reason and be logical. Hence our mind gets full of fear and we become unreasonable.

Is the origional sin from us being conciously aware that we have seperated ourselves from the source? Did we seperate so that we could know oneness. As above so below, on earth as it is in heaven. To know God we must know ourself, to know ourself we must know God.

Ok I'll stop now before I ramble on with lack of sleep deprevation and be come unreasonable and illogical.

Barbara