Hello All,

Just getting back to the forum and have been reading so much from all of you loves on several threads so far, which I look forward to absorbing over the next couple of days.

From Barbara:
Quote: "Is the origional sin from us being conciously aware that we have seperated ourselves from the source? Did we seperate so that we could know oneness. As above so below, on earth as it is in heaven. To know God we must know ourself, to know ourself we must know God."

I think you got it here, except the separation from the Source is our illusion only; we were never able to separate really; we are having a dream of a separation.

Fear is the illusion of separation from God. And I too think that Original Sin must be the decision to separate. That it is God's/our plan for us to learn and know Oneness, yes.

(Halo 1 & All )

The Plucking. In Deed it is the Action that commits intention the Thought to Life....bridging the gap between the antimatter(thought) and the actual formulation of Event....
and Yes,....the Falling. The Force of gravitation on the Will. The Attraction of Humanity to Gaea....all ways
re-Membering One's Self to the Source of PurePose.
The inevitable re-Turning.
The Bearth.
The death.
the Resurrection.
The Bearth.

The Cycle indeed....Spiralling into it Self.

(Meanwhile,...back at the Drawing Bored>)
the Quest Eon reMains:

What IS the ORIGIN-al Sin?

The Witness of This?

The Knowing?

Conscious Evolution?



2 U All

Chahlie

Honestly...
I find the whole concept Politics and no thing more.


Politicians learn early on...the Manipulation and Power of humiliation through Guilt and making others feel unworthy.

Original Sin is a lie...imho

What's more the politician learns through Experience... without even need of wearing the false mask...
how to leave it up to Us to humiliate ourSelves...
once we are swept up into the Game.

I often wonder about the image most Religions hold of God...as Be ing All-Powerful and Omnipotent.
Forever holding the Reigns in Control.
This way of thinking in itself leads to humanity's feelings of weakness and forever striving and desire to me more than they already are. A shame of themselves...in simply Being.

In Stead of a Staid Ancient Energy....sometimes I like to imagine God ever-Evolving and Expanding just as We...
along our Sides... through our Glories and Humiliations...

If more others even pondered Such Philosophies...how many less Wars and autrocities on Humanity might there Be?

Isn't it ultimately about Control and Righteousness?
Why would we have need for Such Control...if even God might not?

God without Ultimate Control???
no, no...the Universe may implode.

I know, I know....
just nice to Imagine as John says...

U. ur good ;

Who allows these self proclaimed leaders in front anyway?
I wish they would just take their place in line and sit down. Forever using this precious Time here to forge a little Golden Fortress for themselves, with loud speakers and lots of guards.
How can such falsities Be made Belief for so many generations of Mass Humanity?
Why has doctrine taken the Place of Free Thotht?
Do we need to Believe in insecurity?
Or have we simply taught what we learn, never stopping to THINK about the ludicrous insanity of it All?
And WHO is teaching Us.

I appreciate the frank manner from which You speak Lisa.
It is testimony to the SIte for which it was created.
To allow Forum for US to connect as individuals, throughout this Spiralling Whirled and forge yet a Greater Learning Institute of Ponderance....as One of the Good Ones intended " seek the Truth and IT(The Seeking) shall set You Free"....

I agree with You.
The Only Sin a New Born Hu-Man is guilty of is Fear of NOT belonging....disconnectedness.
Abandonement from which they Be-long.
A Place removed from such insecurities as vanity and ego, Id and arrogance.
A Place Special to the New Born Third I.
A Place EveryOne has come from.
A Place we ALL shall return to....
regard-less of what acts may be created during our Time here.

I too Believe there is Only Good.

ANd yes,...it must come from the I-Magi-nation on this Realm. A Place caught somehwere between the Reference Aisle and the Vast section of Fiction.

Imagine the ONLY MYSTERY to solve was our Place of ORIGIN?

And all the Fables and FolkLores,Doctrines and Dogmas, Beliefs and BEattitudes, Commandments and Sacraments ,Rituals and Rites of Passage were Video Games?

The Halls are a bit quiet these Daze.
Like August in the Classroom...

Long Time, No See.


The other day I again heard this said.
Found this Quest-eon in my head...
An answer, I have yet to find
Why can't I see?
I must Be blind.





Perhaps the only True Sin
is
to do

Nothing

at

All.

Just watching the Whirled go by.
All owing
Others
Every Thing
for
Themselves.

Wishing
to BE
Divine
but
falling from
Grace
in our
own I's.

Feeling Guilt
and Blame
for wanting to Know.
But doing
No Thing
a bout
It.


Aspiring without perspiring.

The True Sin isn't so Origin-al.
We keep repeating It over and over and over.....




May Be we should define Sin first....

What is Sin?


Any takers?



Chahlie

Hi Chahlie,

I don't think you are blind at all. I think the reason you can't find the answer to your question of 'What is Sin?' is because there really isn't such a thing as sin at all. We were all created in the likeness of our creator and given the free will to do and create as we please. Free from rules or stipulations. And we are loved unconditionally by our creator, no matter what we do or don't do. I don't believe we can ever do any wrong in our creator's eyes. In my humble opinion, sin is a man-made notion, not God-made.

I found something very interesting when I lexied the phrase ORIGINAL SIN. Nowhere do you see any reference to Adam, Eve, serpents, gardens or trees. But you do find a few words that reference Jesus such as: Grail, Son (of God), nail (crucifixion), rising (from the dead). It kind of makes you wonder just when the story of Original Sin was actually concocted and by whom?

This is an awesome thread Chahlie and I do hope you find the answers you are searching for.

:)Venus

"I don't think you are blind at all. I think the reason you can't find the answer to your question of 'What is Sin?' is because there really isn't such a thing as sin at all. We were all created in the likeness of our creator and given the free will to do and create as we please. Free from rules or stipulations. And we are loved unconditionally by our creator, no matter what we do or don't do. I don't believe we can ever do any wrong in our creator's eyes. In my humble opinion, sin is a man-made notion, not God-made."


I agree with You hole heartedly.
And aspire to do just that.
I think what IT IS I am getting at, is the notion of Sin and it's afflicition on the course of Humanity.
For, in my opinion, re-Legion and it's tenets have All but fused the cons together to colloborate on a system of control that has, since written history, done what it intended to do....divide and conquer the profane Masses.

The lexigramming You suggest is spot on and the intention of my rhetoric hear...to Inspire Higher.
Spiral staircase....One step beyond.

WHere does the concept of Sin and it's Origin source from?

Quick BAtman!...to the BatCave.


Hear Is what I found ...

The word sin derives from Old English synn, recorded in use as early as the 9th century.[1] The same root appears in several other Germanic languages, e.g. Old Norse synd, or German Sünde. There is presumably a Germanic root *sun(d)jō (literally "it is true").[2] The word may derive, ultimately, from *es-, one of the Proto-Indo-European roots that meant "to be," and is a present participle, "being." (INteresting!!) Latin, also has an old present participle of esse in the word sons, sont-, which came to mean "guilty" in Latin.[citation needed] The root meaning would appear to be, "it is true;" that is, "the charge has been proven."

The Greek word hamartia (ἁμαρτία) is usually translated as sin in the New Testament. (Any Greeks out there?) In Classical Greek, it means "to miss the mark" or "to miss the target" which was also used in Old English archery.[3] In Koine Greek, which was spoken in the time of the New Testament, however, this translation is not adequate.[4] In other research, this word has been associated with the "hem" of a garment.[citation needed]

"Sin" was also the name of the Babylonian/Akkadian moon god. Some students in recent times have postulated a connection with the modern English word "sin"[citation needed], but this is likely a folk-etymology. Note that the Babylonian/Akkadian deity name Sin is derived from the Sumerian moon god Nanna - Suen.
In the Sumerian myth "Enlil and Ninlil" [3] Suen is trapped in the underworld. Sons of Enlil and Ninlil are given as substitutes to allow for the ascent of Suen.



Buddhist views of sin
Buddhism does not recognize the idea behind sin because in Buddhism, instead, there is a "Cause-Effect Theory", known as Karma, or action. In general, Buddhism illustrates intentions as the cause of Karma, either good or bad.
Furthermore, most thoughts in any being's mind can be negative.

Vipaka, the result of your Karma, may create low quality living, hardships, destruction and all means of disharmony in life and it may also create healthy living, easiness, and harmony in life. Good deeds produce good results while bad deeds produce bad results. Karma and Vipaka are your own action and result.

Pañcasīla (Pāli) is the fundamental code of Buddhist ethics, willingly undertaken by lay followers of Gautama Buddha. It is a basic understanding of the Noble Eightfold Path, which is a Buddhist teaching on ways to stop suffering.

Pancasila
I undertake the rule to refrain from destroying living creatures.
I undertake the rule to refrain from taking that which is not given.
I undertake the rule to refrain from sexual misconduct.
I undertake the rule to refrain from incorrect speech.
I undertake the rule to refrain from intoxicants which lead to carelessness.
Noble Eightfold Path
Right View
Right Intention
Right Speech
Right Action
Right Work
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Concentration
These ultimately lead to cessation of suffering and thus is a way to be free of Samsara, the cycle of death. After that, Nirvana is achieved.


Jewish views of sin
Judaism regards the violation of divine commandments to be a sin. Judaism teaches that sin is an act, and not a state of being. Humankind was not created with an inclination to do evil, but has that inclination "from his youth"(Genesis 8:21). People do have the ability to master this inclination (Genesis 4:7) and choose good over evil (conscience)(Psalm 37:27).[5] Judaism uses the term "sin" to include violations of Jewish law that are not necessarily a lapse in morality. According to the Jewish encyclopedia, "Man is responsible for sin because he is endowed with free will ("behirah"); yet he is by nature frail, and the tendency of the mind is to evil: "For the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth" (Gen. viii. 21; Yoma 20a; Sanh. 105a). Therefore God in His mercy allowed people to repent and be forgiven."[6] Judaism holds that all people sin at various points in their lives, and hold that God tempers justice with mercy.

The generic Hebrew word for any kind of sin is avera (literally: transgression). Based on verses in the Hebrew Bible, Judaism describes three levels of sin. There are three categories of a person who commits an avera. The first one is someone who does an avera intentionally, or "B'mezid." This is the most serious category. The second is one who did an avera by accident. This is called "B'shogeg," and while the person is still responsible for their action it is considered less serious. The third category is someone who is a "Tinok Shenishba", which is a person who was raised in an environment that was assimilated or non-Jewish, and is not aware of the proper Jewish laws, or halacha. This person is not held accountable for their actions.

Pesha (deliberate sin; in modern Hebrew: crime) or Mered (lit.: rebellion) - An intentional sin; an action committed in deliberate defiance of God; (Strong's Concordance :H6588 (פשע pesha', peh'shah). According to Strong it comes from the root (:H6586); rebellion, transgression, trespass.
Avon (lit.: iniquity) - This is a sin of lust or uncontrollable emotion. It is a sin done knowingly, but not done to defy God; (Strong's Concordance :H5771 (avon, aw-vone). According to Strong it comes from the root (:H5753); meaning perversity, moral evil:--fault, iniquity, mischief.
Cheit - This is an unintentional sin, crime or fault. (Strong's Concordance :H2399 (חַטָּא chate). According to Strong it comes from the root khaw-taw (:H2398, H2403) meaning "to miss, to err from the mark (speaking of an archer), to sin, to stumble."

Judaism holds that no human being is perfect, and all people have sinned many times. However, certain states of sin (i.e. avon or cheit) do not condemn a person to damnation; only one or two truly grievous sins lead to anything approaching the standard conception of hell. The scriptural and rabbinic conception of God is that of a creator who tempers justice with mercy. Based on the views of Rabbeinu Tam in the Babylonian Talmud (tractate Rosh HaShanah 17b), God is said to have thirteen attributes of mercy:

God is merciful before someone sins, even though God knows that a person is capable of sin.
God is merciful to a sinner even after the person has sinned.
God represents the power to be merciful even in areas that a human would not expect or deserve.
God is compassionate, and eases the punishment of the guilty.
God is gracious even to those who are not deserving.
God is slow to anger.
God is abundant in kindness.
God is the god of truth, thus we can count on God's promises to forgive repentant sinners.
God guarantees kindness to future generations, as the deeds of the righteous patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) have benefits to all their descendants.
God forgives intentional sins if the sinner repents.
God forgives a deliberate angering of Him if the sinner repents.
God forgives sins that are committed in error.
God wipes away the sins from those who repent.
As Jews are commanded in imitatio Dei, emulating God, rabbis take these attributes into account in deciding Jewish law and its contemporary application.

A classical rabbinic work, Midrash Avot de Rabbi Natan, states:

“ One time, when Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai was walking in Jerusalem with Rabbi Yehoshua, they arrived at where the Temple in Jerusalem now stood in ruins. "Woe to us" cried Rabbi Yehoshua, "for this house where atonement was made for Israel's sins now lies in ruins!" Answered Rabban Yochanan, "We have another, equally important source of atonement, the practice of gemilut hasadim (loving kindness), as it is stated 'I desire loving kindness and not sacrifice'. ”

Some more Food for Thotht.

And thank You for joining me on this Quest Venus.





Chahlie

Wow Chahles,

When you serve us food for thought, you whip out a 9 course meal! Thank you so much for sharing that info you found on sin. I found it quite intriguing. Most especially the reference to the Sumerian myth of the moon god Suen. "Suen is trapped in the underworld. Sons of Enlil and Ninlil are given as substitutes to allow for the ascent of Suen." It sounds so much like the Jesus story, doesn't it? If you substitute Suen for humankind, the underworld for Earth and the Sons of Enlil and Ninlil for Jesus, you would have the Jesus story! Whoa! Just like the lexigram revealed.

So, "WHere does the concept of Sin and it's Origin source from" you ask? You already had the answer to the where as well as to the why before you even asked the question:



Thanks again for this very enlightening and very educational food for thought. You helped me to find some things I had been seeking too. I am honored as well as thrilled to join you in your quest.