look after yourself first and ALWAYS.. be True to yourself.. and Let it go..seems your a higher Soul than Him, he's not worth your "TIME" ...Live your Life's Plan xx

I can't imagine Kitty thinking of another soul
as less than her or not worth her time.

she lives outside of time,
she lives outside of karma

Piscesdreamer, that was beautiful and wise.
I adore Neptune.

Know what I've been thinking about, Kitty?
About our first intuitions.
You know....the ones that we talk ourselves out of?

So quickly do our minds turn, so easily we may forget what they were~ how clear they were in one fleeting moment. Or we keep getting them, and keep checking them with a multitude of reasons~ fancies or sobreities.

I guess when it becomes unsure or we lose touch of what we know,
the best we can do is keep receiving with a welcome alertness?

I imagine you are. (I'm trying too)

Dear Susan,
thanks for your reply. For wanting to be concise in my response I change the order of what you wrote and hope this is ok for you.



Darling, I'm no "higher soul" than anyone else. We have all the same "height", all our light, all our darkness. In my opinion to claim this would be some sort of spiritual arrogance. I don't believe in soul's hierarchies. We are all learners and all teachers, in one way or another. You can evaluate a person's actions and its consequences, but remember, that a SOUL isn't identical with the deeds of a person. As for spending my time... well... you know, I spend my time jobwise or privately, with a lot of different people, some of whom would not get along with one another. May I offer you some piece of advice you didn't ask for? No? Then just read on in the next paragraph. If yes, then read on here. Be a bit slowlier with your judgements, or you might miss a lot of people... miss a lot of connectedness and friendship. The choice is yours.



I never intended not to. I don't sacrifice myself. And yet, when my plan offers me an oppurtunity to find out more about myself, I seldom run away from it...



*grin* If your username didn't show it anyway, I would know your Sun Sign right now, after reading this sentence. I know I repeat myself here, but for the sake of clarity: I don't sacrifice myself. I don't believe in sacrifices being a price for love. In my opinion that's a myth. One of many, btw...(My Venus is in Aquarius, so forgive me if my thoughts on love and/or relationship may seem a bit far-out for you. They have always been, at least to some people, but I can happily live with that).



As much as I can, at any given moment. Can be quite an endeavour, see... Being blessed with a searching soul, ever curious of experiencing itself... being true to mySelf always means to stay flexible, without losing the "core"... Quite an endeavour, but fortunately an adventurous one



Letting go of what? Of expectancies? Sure enough, I'm anyway not sure if I had any, and if yes, which.
Letting go of him as a person? Certainly not. Anyway, why should I? He was honest before we got intimate with each other or something. Why should I not honor this? I'd say chances were that not too few man would've let sth. physical happen and come out with truth later. So trust begets trust and no harm is done. On the contrary, if you ask me.
Showing each other your minds and part of your soul doesn't automatically mean to let the body follow. In other words: I have no intent to have sex with him, given the situation as it is. But I don't see any reason whatsoever to not exchange our minds with each other, work together on the social project we're both interested in (and which made us meet at all in the first place) and exchange friendly feelings if we share them. You know, I've more platonic male friends than female ones and I truly don't see why he couldn't be one of them.
Smiles and twinkles,
Kitty

Hi Lisa,
nice to "hear" your voice here.



To my very own discontent, I have to say this is wrong, at least the second part. I don't believe in soul's hierachies, that much is true. But I sometimes DO consider a person's statement or a thing that someone does not being worth taking my time to respond. This occurs in situations when I have my own hands full or when I get the impression that whatever I might say or do I can't do it in a way that really expresses what I mean or get through to another one.



Well, love does. I don't. *chuckle*



A typical PD observation. I enjoy them also...



At those times when it doesn't make me feel dizzy and "surreal", I do so, too.



Lady Bluedove , I *so* know what you mean...



I don't know... I really don't... all I know is that I try to stay in the process... trusting that wherever it will lead, it'll be a good place in the end. And how does the saying go? All's well that ends well, right?



I'm there... right now, I'm there with you again. Just listen and you'll know you never walk alone.
It's the season again, huh?

Kitty

Oh my - how correct you are - we are all part of the One...



That I will disagree with - it is hard to explain why - but the bottom line is that the soul is aware - at some level or not - or should I say - the personality is the "blockage" there...

Love

Dave

Yes, of course the soul is aware of what a person is doing, I didn't mean to say it isn't. What I meant to say or wanted to say is that from my personal understanding (which is pretty fallible and I don't claim to be right), but from my personal understanding the SOUL of anyone is more than the person (ality). The soul knows (and possibly even contains I don't know...) ALL personalities of all incarnations it has had or has or even is about to have. (Depends on whether we take time as linear or not. If not, then even all incarnations and personalities of the soul "happen" simultaneously). So, of course do the things that someone does or doesn't do reflect personal awareness in the sense of consciousness, but the deeds just reflect the conciousness of a person, i.e. the extent to which he/she is aware of being the spook and the nave simultaneously (Oneness). But nonetheless have there been people in history (and perhaps are even now, I don't know) who, inspite of their deeds, which didn't reflect much awareness of Oneness, did (on a soul level) put things in action which (collectively) put in motion a new sense of ONENESS.

Uhm... I don't know if that makes it clearer of if it is totally off the mark from what you intended to say, Dave. I'd be pleased if you gave me some feedback...
Love,
Kitty

Kitty,

The "problem" is this - we speak of higher levels than the personality, i.e., the soul, and then at a higher level the spirit, all the way up to the One - and the best "reason" that I can think of is that there has to be some order for the consciousenss of being "alive" to happen - and for our part of the One to have "landed" here where we are is no accident - there is a great deal of structure here rather than chaos - although that plays a big role as well.

That is the quandry we face - in order to define it we have to have some order that defies being ordered...

Love

Dave

Hi Dave and all...

Well... sometimes things get fast... really fast. Neptune is here, again, and I still try my very best to sort out whether this last weekend was for real or not...
Seems I REALLY find out what I want out of love, right now. This weekend I've spent a whole lot of time with my best friends' brother... Heck, how long have I known them, both... It's been years. And I never thought of much... But these last weeks (beginning of May till now) we REALLY started talking. Tuesday he (my friend's brother) called me and asked me what plans for the weekend I had. I said "None so far..." -"Would you mind me come over?" - "No, of course not." And he did come over... and it was like we met anew... weird... really weird... I never saw the man in him. My friend's brother that's who he was and that's about it. I had seen him so often, but never that way. Not this time... Was it transiting Mars conjuncting his Sun, was it the New Moon, the music, the warmth of a summer night? Maybe all, maybe nothing. Facts are that we both got flooded by some feelings.
Positive thing is that he's free... No one who might be harmed. And yet, I still feel like my head in the clouds... still feel warm even though he's away for hours... Heck, normally, I'm not taking it head over heels... I've never been so surprised... excuse me, we've known each other for ages... we never were close. It was always his brother I had a (platonic!)friendship with, never him.
Dave, would you do a synastry, please? You have my data, right?
His are: May, 4, 1960, Frankfurt (Main), 1:10 PM
Must have been magic on Saturday evening...
Kitty, confused, but happy (Neptune dancing...)

Kitty,

It sometimes happens that way. I will be happy to look at the synastry - be back to you by Wed...

Love

Dave

Thanks a bunch, Dave!
Love,
Kitty

Kitty,

When I saw his chart, I realized that there was something "familiar" about it, and it took a while to remember why - it turns out that I know someone born about a week later and some of the things in the chart were also in that person's as well... Enough said!

He has Sun conjunct Mercury and Saturn in Taurus conjunct your Jupiter and a Venus Mars conjunction in Gemini which is trine your Venus and opposite (a little wide) your Mars. His Venus Mars is inconjunct your Uranus. The Saturns are square each other. His ascendant is in early Virgo. His Moon is in very late Aries.

In short, it is basically one of those synastries that it is up to both of you - the sexual attraction is there.

The relationship chart shows a lot of potential - Venus, Mars and Saturn are in a triangle of energy which is consciousness of love on the physical and emotional level. The Sun is at 1 Virgo and the Moon is at 23 Cancer - and the chart is one that all of the planets interact with each other. The date of the chart is Aug 25, 1973 at 6:20 AM at long 8e 45, lat 50 n20.

The potential is there...

Love

Dave

Dave,
thanks a lot for that! But it seems you typed 1970, instead of 1960...



No, his Merc is in late Aries, and he has Pisces Mars... Venus in Taurus, directly on my South Node (on the very degree!)



No, Dave. You've got the wrong year typed in for him. You typed 1970, but it's May 1960. Look at the date I gave you, it's a typo. Saturn was in 18 Cappy, stationary on that day, if I'm correct. Now, how could a 16 Leo Saturn (mine) be square a Cappy Saturn?



Right.



No, it's 19 Leo, squaring his Sun and conjuncting my Saturn.
That's a typo you had there. Could you re-do that, please?



That one I felt!
Love,
Kitty

Kitty,

Oops! I'll get back to you!

Love

Dave

Kitty,

You had it right and I did not! I apologize!

OK - her goes - There are the Venus square, the Mars square (both a bit "loose", and the Moons are sextile, and the Saturns are inconjunct. The biggest thing that is going on though is his Moon/Uranus conjunction is conjunct your Saturn - which could mean a couple of things - he can get very emotional suddenly and your Saturn is there to give him stability, and on the other hand it could mean that he can stir up your world - which may not be a "bad" thing.

The relationship chart is ah very interesting - the following are all in Virgo - Sun @ 2, Jupiter @ 13, Moon @ 17, Mercury @ 20, the ascendant @ 20, Pluto @ 21, nd Uranus @ 27 - Mars is at 12 Leo, Saturn at 16 Aries, and Neptune at 23 Scorpio... What an intense concentration of energy!

Love

Dave

Thanks, Dave!



Errors happen to all of us, right? Don't worry, it's okay.



Hmmm... is that a karmic one? With these two square I'd normally not bet on the physical chemistry, but... it clearly IS there. Even though all of a sudden, but it is there.



Could you fill me in a bit about "inconjunctions". I know the term, but not its effects.



I hold both possible. The latter for sure... the former, we'll see.



Well, Dave, even if it were... - which I don't think - I didn't ask for that synastry in sense of whether or not go into the relationship (I will and I'm sure of that), but more to be prepared. The decision itself is done, at least on my part. And I guess, on his, too, even though we aren't sure of where it might take us. But one does never know.



A challenge of its own... but, here I am and I feel ready for it. I guess, I would forever regret it if I let it pass by... so I take my chances. I'm not sure whether it'll be a lifelong commitment, but to my heart it's well worth a try.

Kitty

Kitty,

The Venus and Mars squares are not necessarily karmic, but indicate some resolution of desire - and yes, it can be very sudden and ah intense...

Inconjuncts are 150 apart - and perhaps is the roughest aspect as they have no commonality - either by element or by quadriplicity. It is in one sense "worse" than the hard aspects because of that. It is definitely a struggle.

Yes, the relationship chart is a challenge of its own - very work oriented in one self, and could be "picky" as Kelly would put it!

Love

Dave

Well, Dave,
it'll be good for sth. as well. And who said that only the things that come easy are worth trying?
Thanks and I might perhaps periodically tell what goes on if you like...
Kitty
P.S.: And the work- orientedness, ah, well, we both did and do some inner work for ourselves, so we might as well see it as an exercise. Could be just a stimulus for growth...

Hey Kitty,

How are things going with the Taurus?

After reading this thread I was thinking that most of the Taurus individuals I know are pretty deep and spiritually oriented. Both my husband and I had a Taurus friend (both born on the 7th, so maybe their number had something to do with it) who were very influential to us on our spiritual path.

I hope all is going well.

Hi Kel,
I'm (we are, I'd say) happily in love with the Taurean. It's getting closer, but in an unobtrusive, non-possessive way. It certainly isn't what some would call an "easy relationship", but I knew that from the beginning. It isn't "easy" to be the second one (not simultaneously, though, but speaking of lifetime) when the first relationship (and marriage) ended with much hurt and tears and scars. He was pretty, pretty young when he met his ex-wife and all in all (I don't know how long exactly they were married) they spent 18 years together or so. And he has been alone since they split, which means for nine years. That means he has his life and habits and routines and friends and it means some change now. Sometimes he loves it, sometimes he dreads it- and for that matter, me too. We're making an impact on each other's lives and that impact might very well be larger than assumed. This is not casual, for none of us. There have been some very, very touching and romantic moments. We are inspiring each other in a very gentle way. I love him. I could ennumerate things why and it would become quite a list, but... it's just there and I know that I feel very blessed. It's a gift, period. You want a full moon story of Tuesday evening? You get one. We had been out for a walk just before sunset (these walks, that's another things, he's a biologist by profession and I never knew anyone knowing so much 'bout birds and plants) and way after dinner (which we cooked and had together, I hear you , me and cooking... ) I suddenly had some impulse and said "I wanna take a ride to the bridge." That bridge has a special meaning for us because when we first were there, there was a woman singing a part of an Italian opera. It's a love song, or rather, a song of longing and missing and we both stood still and listened with tears in our eyes afterwards. So that bridge is special to us and when I said "Let's go to the bridge..." he just gave me a smile (it was almost 11 PM and I thought he'd say sth. about having to get up early), twinkled, fetched a blanket and an anorak and there we went. The bridge, the river, the Full Moon, a bat or two... and us. But there are other things... less spectacular ones. There's the way the lets his hand rest a few seconds longer to caress my finger when handing me the marmelade at the breakfast table, the small drawing he paints and leaves me to find at my desk when he's gone, the self written poem read on the phone, the look in his eyes when we hug to say "hi". But all of that doesn't explain the naturalness. It just feels SO natural. Sometimes I look at him and wonder where I had my mind all these years. It was so right before my very eyes, how could I've been so blind and not see the man in him?
It's the little things, you know... We both aren't the looking-goods everyone turns their head after, but seeing him with the heart reveals a beauty to me I never knew.
And for the spirituality... Kel, I didn't mean techniques and such. Even so he knows yoga and works with the tarot that's not what I meant. You know, it's not doing this and leaving that and believing this or that... it's simply leaning forward beyond my fears and let that man really be inside of me. Letting another one see the most fragile things, makes both of us more vulnerable than ever. And I need spirituality to allow myself to love and to be loved, in a very tangible way and yet to get deeper and deeper into each other, not losing but expanding myself therein. Not losing the I in the We, but expanding it, not dissolving in some ecstatic, diffuse sea, but being me all one with many yous and melting the I and the You to an ever growing and growing WE that respects every I and You. I know that love means more than loving a partner, but spiritual exercise to me means here to respond to another person beyond fears, conditions, etc. Very "worldly" work? I agree, but to me spirituality is woven into the world and not to be used to flee from it. So, being with him is a VERY spiritual adventure to me, but some might not see it so, depending on how one defines spirituality.
,
Kitty

Kitty.

Great for both of you!

Love

Dave

Hi Dave,
yes, it is. If things go as we're planning them, we shall be in Scotland together at the end of Sept/beginning of Oct. I'm looking forward to it very much. My ex (Leo Sun Sign, Cancer Venus, Scorp ASC and Moon) was never fond of travelling, so it's been 10 (in words: ten) years, since I travelled somewhere with someone. Once I took alone a train to Berlin to visit friends and once I went to Basel (Switzerland) to just do the same. That were, all in all, five days of travelling - in 10 years!!! Man, are my wings burning for a change of scene!
Funny thing is, my Taurean IS a travelling man through and through, having been to countries in South America, Europe and Asia- and still having a list of where he wants to go. (All his 9th house placements, I assume).
Well, anyway, will be a test. First time spending every day together (so far we have 300 km between us, (he stayed near our home places, I went away directly after school) but still manage to meet as often as we can). Will keep you posted how it went when we're back.
Smiles and twinkles,
Kitty

Hi Kitty,

I'm so happy to hear that you are in love and are enjoying all that comes with a new relationship.

I didn't mean spiritual in the way you thought I did, I meant it in the way you describe it here. I might not use the same words but the meaning is the same.

Hi Kel,



Me too, Kel, me too. When I see the beginning of this thread I chuckle, give myself a grin and wonder how fast it all did unfold. In a way it's funny... My former relationship broke while transiting Saturn opposed my natal Venus and the next relationship starts after my Saturn return and after Pluto is finally past my Sag planets (Neptune, Mars and Sun). These last years... transiting Saturn and Pluto have been permanently prominent and visible in both my chart and my life. And shortly after they've finally passed "for good", abracadabra, , there's a new relationship - and one that I would NOT have been able to deal with before! So, I'm very, very grateful. It's not for granted for a (what's the American term for that? "physically challenged", right?) person to find a partner for mind, heart, body and soul. And I'm amazed again and again that I never had difficulties in that area of life. I know others who do. For whatever reason, I'm blessed with male jewels who mean me when they see me and I wish I could share that luck. Lucky, lucky me. What a blessed life... What a gift to give and receive love... what a splendid source of hope through all health, job and financial ups and downs... Yes, Kel, I'm happy, too. More than words can say.



'xcuse me, I'm sometimes too quick with interpretations. I try to work on it. Does that count? Hopefully...
Joyfully yours,
Kitty

Hey no worries (as they say in Jamaica). Self-improvement is always a good attribute, I strive for that myself.

Again, I am so happy for you! I hope lasts for a long time.

Dave,
what method did you use when you did the relationship chart? As a matter of curiousity, I ordered a relationship horoscope by Liz Greene from astrodienst cause I wanted to know more and Volker had asked me a few things as well, though it was more the "What is my ASC?" like kind of question (but, that's also sth. to begin with, we all started that way once, didn't we? ;)). Now the report is here and she gets




totally other placements than you do. I checked the indivdual data twice before the order, there was no mistake. She gets sth. like Sun, Merc, Venus and Jup in Pisces, Moon, Pluto, Uranus and Asc in Virgo, Nep and Saturn in Scorp and Mars in Aqua.
And now I'm totally confused about what happened and which is which because the report (from first reading I more or less skimmed it) seems to be quite fitting, but I trust your work as well, so it must be sth. with the method which explains the differences.
Love,
Kitty


Dave [/quote]