Hi everyone,
I don't really know how to phrase this... I'm confused... I'm restless... and I've had the weirdest dreams (at night) and imaginations (before falling asleep) the last weeks.
I've been in a relationship from Jul 1999 to Nov 2005. Since then I was solo, even though dating with someone for a while. But we never came to terms of becoming a couple, which in a way is sad, but then again... What's not meant to be is not meant to be.
But... the last weeks have really been strange. For one, I run into the man (after years) with whom I had the first sexual experiences. He's solo as well as I, but I don't want to take any further steps with him again. (He asked me, if I would...) Second, my ex (from the relationship mentioned above) is making avances again. We've never been totally out of contact, but clearly platonic.
And third... I get some very vivid images and night time dreams from me being with another man. From what he looks like, I don't know him (on this plane of the world), but in the dreams it feels to me like we know each other very well.
Now... normally, I'd have shook my head and tell myself it's rubbish... some teeny romantical fancy... you know, like making up a "dream lover", but the problem is: These dreams do return. And they seem very real, so that I really have trouble convincing myself of an illusion. But where's that longing coming from? And WHY does it seem so real?
Is my subconsciousness fooling me? Am I now really becoming a weirdo? Or is there something to it?
I'd be happy if someone checked my natal... because I'm too subjective to do it on my own. (I don't need a prognosis... I want more than all an explanation).
Love,
Kitty

Kitty,

I don't have your data handy, so if you could repost it, I'll get back to you in a few days.

Love

Dave

Dave,
it's December 16, 1976, 1:30 AM, Lich, Germany.
My ex's data is: August 21, 1977, 12:14 PM, Pinneberg, Germany.

I wonder if we split altogether out of that Saturn return... We (on my initiative) seperated on November, 9, 2005.

But why he's flirting at me again is only a secondary aspect (I bet I'll be able to figure out it myself in a while), it's more that those dreams have me wondering...
Take your time, if I know it in a week, that's okay, too.
Don't you enjoy the weekend without working?
Love,
Kirsten

Kirsten,

I will!

Love

Dave

Kitty,

I basically because of what you were saying looked at your chart only, although I glanced at your "ex" as well.

What you were saying seemed to me to be very Neptunian, and that shows up big time in your transits. Neptune is squaring your Jupiter (which is in the 8th house) and that would allow the thoughts of the "dream" person to come through - and this will be going on over the next year, so there is plenty of time for it to happen. Neptune is also beginning to approach a sextile to your Sun as well, and Pluto is finally past your Sun for "good".

Here is where Saturn comes in. Right now it is at 18 , and got close enough to your Saturn to have been in conjunction as well again. Your "ex" has his Saturn at 21 , so the "final" pass on his Saturn return will happen later this spring/early summer - right opposite transiting Neptune. So, in one sense for all of us and you in particular, consciousness about "dreams/illusion" will manifest (and I'll look the date up later today) and that will separate the "dreams" from the "illusions". Nothing will happen with him until that point, and it either will be a go or not - it is the "last" chance so to speak - and I suspect from what you were saying that it won't - the images of someone else are coming through...

Love

Dave

Dear Dave,


Well, that's how it feels... deep and elusive... Pluto can be deep as well, but is certainly not elusive. And I perceive the Moon to be elusive, but not deep. Neptune, to me, seems both.




Hmmm, one question to that, if you allow... I know the house positions and signs and degrees (using Koch) of the planets in my natal, but I don't quite get what you try to tell me by the above. Do you mean that my own thoughts about a "dream" person, an imagery person, do come through? Or do you mean that this aspect allows thoughts of an existing, but (yet) unmet person do come up? In other words, is the 8th house a place to my own thoughts (even though a possible "spiritual connection") or is it about a "significant other"? I know the 8th to be about "other people's money", but I don't see money or wealth involved in this topic. The other 8th house theme I know is about spiritual transformation and a person's way of dealing with crisis and inner change. (Now, having had Pluto conjunct to three planets the last years, I can sing you a song on these topics by , if you wish.) So, could you please clarify that for me?



If I should really meet that man, wherever and whenever, you can be sure I'll keep you posted.
In a way this seems all so... far-fetched to my mind and my Cappy Merc keeps constantly telling me to "get real and grow out of this". But, nevertheless, we'll see. If I will not recognize his face, I'll certainly recognize the energy and feelings it causes.



Oh, well, Pluto. I for sure have a timetable with him. It has been the 5th conjunction to other planets in my life... and I'm only 30. So, given a normal life- expectancy, this would give me another two (Pluto-Merc, Pluto-Venus) later. In a way I've really grown fond of Pluto, these last three years, you know? He isn't easy to deal with, but his rewards are great.



Well, this should be good! Personally, I prefer to know which is which. And yes, please, give me the date if you can.



Well... lemme put it this way: I hold a very deep respect for Toby and I will always honor what we had. He has a place of gratitude in my heart. But if ever we would live as a COUPLE again, then certainly not the way it was before. I won't be back to the old days and patterns, but soulwise I will be never be finished with him. He's one really good friend, one of the very few I really had. And believe me, that merit isn't easy to earn. But a go? If there won't be a miracle, then, no it won't.



But from where? Or whom? That's where I'm still at a loss...

Thanks a lot, best regards and love,
Kitty

Kitty,

Neptune is dreams/illusions and sometimes it is very hard to tell which is which! Sometimes I wish that were easy to tell!


Probably the latter - it could be someone who you know already, but not in "that" sense!


It will happen when it is supposed to!


Yes, I can imagine that you can sing a song about Pluto... It will next year start to conjunct my Mercury, and I look forward to it. I remember when Neptune did - my "logical" brain got scrambled but oh my intuition...

The 8th house is also about death, sex and regeneration...

Saturn opposes Neptune on June 25th - this type of event happens roughly every 25 years or so.

Love

Dave

Hi Kitty

Got news for ya, you are not weird! Something about your post caught my attention, as I have had a very similar experience... About the dream man that you are 'envisioning' at night, I am reminded of the myth of Psyche & Eros; are you familiar with this story? If you're so inclined, you may find it intriguing.

Astrologically speaking, Dave our expert has got it covered, but if you at all enjoy the Psyche & Eros angle, I find that these two placements in an astrological chart, (for either male or female) can be quite illuminating.

Best of luck!

Tara

Dear Dave,


Should we ask a Water Sign on that? PD, where are you? Now, seriously, I guess it will show itself as the process unfolds.



I wish you luck with Pluto on your Merc. Tell me 'bout it afterwards, if you like cause I will have that one when Pluto is at 13 Cappy. But I can tell you a bit about Pluto con Sun if you like. The Neptune con Merc I had as well and it was by that time that I had a few really psychic flashes... like dreaming about things that happened later and such.



Thanks for the reminder. That might be fitting... if I will meet that someone in that sense, you know.



Ok, I was too small to remember the last one, then. But I'll watch out for it this time.
Thanks and Love,
Kitty

Hi Tara



Well, I suppose, some people who know me would object to that. But... some like me for it and wouldn't want me any other way.



Would you be willing to tell me about it? How did it develop for you?



No, I don't know it. Could you tell it to me? Sounds like a fairie tale or myth, is it one?



Are you saying there are stars named after them? So, where and how could one discover their placements in one's horoscope?
Curious greetings,
Kitty

Kitty,

Pluto will be on my Sun when it is on your Merc...


That is your Merc in Cappy hard at work!

Psyche and Eros are two asteroids in the belt between Mars and Jupiter. I don't use them, but some people do...

Love

Dave

You can find Eros and Psyche in your chart if you go to Astro.com. They are under the asteroid codes. The code for Psyche is 16 and the code for Eros is 433. Eros and Psyche are based on Roman mythology I believe. Eros is the Roman name for Cupid, btw.

I'd like to know the Eros and Psyche angle if no one else does. I actually went and looked and I have Eros in the 8th house and Psyche in the 12th house, which is kinda funny because that seems to go along with the theme of both houses.

Kitty,

I looked the asteroids up, and Eros is at 28 6 in your first house and Psyche is at 16 1 in your 12th. Beyond that I won't say anything...

Love

Dave

Dear Kitty,

Here I am, still swimming in the stream flowing through the Lover's Garden, on the way to Eden. What a journey, huh?

Thank you so much for baring your heart and soul. How sweet you thought of me as a Neptunian one to ask, so I hope you can trust any answer I could give!

There are no answers anywhere, but in your heart, where there is the Answer to everything. I say just keep your heart and mind open, always, and follow your heart to its treasure, and watch your life unfold as you Love.

I think you are communing with an "other," your lover, perhaps what we think of as "twin," who may or may not be in physical form at this time. You are now conscious of this union, for some reason at this time... Maybe it's just time to remember for now, or maybe it's a sign that this being is coming into your life soon or at some future time. I think we usually dream this way of our Love, whether or not the dream is about to become manifest into the physical right away. And we do communicate with others in spirit, constantly, whether or not we are in physical form. Why not, if we are spirit. It is perfectly natural. Just as it is perfectly natural to long for our Beloved, and to miss our Beloved when we are apart.

We experience and come to know ourself through "other." This is how we learn about True Love, by experiencing it with "other." We all reach points in time for these experiences of Love. Our special relationships can lead us to know True Love. Yet when we are communing with any one, we are really communing with part of our Self. That would be my answer about dreams and illusions, that there is One Self, One Child of the Divine Creator in which one day all the parts will be seen to be in unity and that there really is no "other." That would be the end of the need for time, when the At-One-ment is complete, when we return to the gate of Eden, to live as we were created to live, with the Beloved at last.

And yet Eden is here now.

Such mysticism to ponder. And you are living it.

It seems natural to keep a place always in our heart for our Beloved. You will meet at the perfect time, when you are ready and willing. These things have a way of being taken care of by the Universe.

I agree with anessene that Psyche and Eros show up in relationship charts in telling ways.

Well by now you are probably sorry you asked a fish...

Best wishes, I hope Love surprises you soon... Keep us informed if you'd like, we all love a good love story!

Dave,



ever thought of a career as a clairvoyant? *smiles and twinkles*
I mean... I WAS surprised... At a little about a fortnight ago I got the strangest "love confession" (if one can call it that way) I've ever heard. I've "known" the man since last August or September (don't exactly know when we first met), but we've only seen each other in a group context, once or twice a month. No phone numbers exchanged, no email addys, none of that kind of stuff. Just the group meetings. And with six or seven people around you don't go get talking. I mean, not really. No private talks. Some glances, but nothing "deep" or even mildly flirtatious. A smile over the table after a remark, yes, but all very normal. I remember when I first saw him I was a bit confused because I had been totally concentrated on doing my preparations and when I looked up there was someone sitting on the other side of the table, right in front of me, without me having noticed him coming in or anything. "I didn't want to disturb you, you seemed so into what you were doing." he said. Then we gave each other our names and that was the introduction. And about a fortnight ago he accompanied me on foot to the bus stop (which I didn't understand cause I had seen him arrive on his bike) and while waiting for my bus we chatted about this and that and then there was one of these strange, stranger, the strangest moments... you know that, when you fall silent and the other one does too and no one breaks it, but still it isn't uneasy. We looked each other straight in the eyes. And when he DID break the silence, out came: "know what I thought when I saw you for the very first time?"- "Well, no..." (I mean, how could I? I hadn't even noticed him entering the room, let alone noticing his thoughts...) "I thought: With this woman I could maybe fall in love." And I answered: "I later noticed some musing when you looked at me, but I never asked why..." He grinned a boyish grin... and boyish is rubbish because we have a lot of an age difference... (but who bothers?!) then my bus came.
And now you all can have a guess what Sun Sign would say "I love you" that way to a woman... and what Sun Sun would stop a Saggy girl like me from asking WHY he was musing when he looked at her? We never told each other a classical "I love you" and we never said (not even to each other, let alone someone else) we are (about to be) a couple.
And I'm not sure we will... we're dancing... with each other silently... each one playfully careful because I already KNOW ... this one will REALLY hurt if it ends. This is the most playful (but not in a bad sense, in sense of ease), but also one of the most deepest things I've known. Either I'll run away very very very quickly (in a wheelchair, go figure the pic!) or I'll lock my heart away to keep it SAFE, or, if I do neither I'm it for I don't know what... (shh, don't tell me our Saturns are square I know that!)
The playfully careful,
Kitty

Dear PD,



Yeah... wonder,awe, bliss, blessing, sorrow, longing, sadness, grief, chances and chains, fortunetellers and hopes that turn sour... you name it. But honestly, I would trade the fullness of this journey's riches for a moment. You, would you?
And Eden is here and a million miles away - both, simultaneously. Depends from where one's at... and how one looks at where one's at. But you know that and I know that you know...




Dearest... those are facets... only facets... and yet the pieces contains the whole and the whole reflects the pieces. And I'm here at least in part to help putting pieces together with hope and in hope. So, what else could I do? I cannot hide away forever... even though I sometimes prefer to be away a bit.



Who, if not you? As far as I remember you were facing some similar trials back then when I posted here first. You emerged from it wisely, so who am I to not listen?



I promise to listen closely, trust, check and then trust more. Can you live with that? Fine, me too.



Did I mention already you are wise? You are.



Yeah...



It doesn't matter to me right now... excuse me, I don't want to be impolite, but I remember how I used to search for it and spent my energy on it instead of being truly with where I was at and whom I was with... I don't condemn anyone searching for it but personally I for now prefer to live the moment... whether I have a twin or not, whether it is incarnated or not, whether it is incarnated as a man or not (what if I was the male part incarnated as a woman this time?) What if... but the NOW is not the time for If... even though my future (career- and love wise is nothing but one big IF...) Lemme be as if it didn't matter, let me talk as if no one listened, let me sing as if no one ever heard, let me love as if there was no "other" to see...



You know what the most beautiful discovery is for me? That it is no union excluded on two... it is a union that can include everything... and the more I can be myself... the more union there is... The WE isn't dissolving individuality... it's expanding it and melting it with the YOU... transforming it without dissolving it.




Yeah, I know. *nods* I didn't forget it, not in this life, not one this line of time that's spiraling up right now. You know what happens when two spirals meet, right? You know the symbol and its meaning... remember?



That was what I meant when I said union doesn't dissolve individuality, but expands it.




I chose being here, now. Mysticism.... hm... matter alive and life transmutes matter... notice I said transmute, not transform...



I can't make much of it right now and my line of interest goes differently. I don't feel like looking meanings up and stuff...



Never! My birth number resonates with Neptune, don't forget that. I always enjoyed Pisces' pieces of advice, from one of my grandmother's to all the other ones I met later.

Love ,
Kitty

Kitty,

Great for you! Yes, we're "interested" in his data!

Love

Dave

Dave,
I don't know his TOB, but will let you know when I have it! Besides, it's important, cause on that day the Moon changed from Leo to Virgo. But I bet he's a Leo Moon. Virgo simply doesn't fit. Before I knew the date, I wondered if he was an Air sign (which he is) and had a Water Moon (but that's his Venus...), but an Earth Moon (no matter which)- simply no.

He's a Gemini, 06/06, 1954 (I told you there's a difference, grin)... But I checked the signs of the planets for that day... there will be some Saturn and Pluto aspects between us, no matter what degrees things fall on.
And interestingly enough... he has Gemini Mars and Cancer Venus just like my ex had...weird.
Well, Dave..., I don't know how "great" this is. On the one hand yes, it's a wonderful feeling... but... hey, it really feels strange when you know losing THAT person would hurt before sth. really began at all... weird feeling, very weird. But I don't recognize my reactions anyway at the moment I notice myself thinking strange thoughts, feeling strange feelings and enjoying it all along the way.
Closeness and freedom will be a theme, and some emotional healing, too. He was married before and I know there are wounds, I sense it. But anyway, whatever will be will be...
Kitty, careful, but trusting

Kitty,

I checked on a few things. One is that the Moon did not go into Virgo until 0:06 GMT on the 7th (and you're an hour ahead), so the Moon is in Leo all day.

Also, his Mars is in Capriocorn(7)! Retrograde... Normally that would "bother" me, but in this case, he is old enough that Mars has stationed by progression in late Sag. The Mars retro coming up later this years will be about 80 days - not 50!

Love

Dave

Sounds like a fun exciting time for you, Kitty. Enjoy the prelude to whatever may be.

Maria

Don't "think" too much, let destiny take over, sounds to me that you are to meet a man soon, and at least you are wise enough to not go "back' to an ex that has appeared, maybe that's the message, you know what you don't want, so that is wise, look forward to what Love and Life are about to offer you and most of all have Fun Susan

Kitty,

Maria and Susan are right - don't let your past hang you up. The fact that his Mars is in Cap, not Gemini makes a huge difference... and it is roughly opposing his Venus...

Love

Dave

Hello all,
Dave, thanks for correcting me on the Mars thing.Of course you're right and it's in ! I (for whatever reason) mistook the year when I looked it up in relationship signs.
Retrograde Mars? Geez, mis-use of the masculine in a past life? Might or might not be. Well, I've got a retrograde Saturn and Jupiter, so... I guess, everyone has a principle to learn to deal with differently, right? Hm... I'm not afraid of that Mars (or of him). We've met twice in the meantime, we take it slowly. I was at his BD party and met his daughter (of the former marriage). She's just ten years younger than I am... funny feeling. I don't know whether she realized the "connection" between her Dad and me or not. There was a whole bunch of people different ages, nationalities and walks of life. (He travels and travelled a lot, that's where he connects all those people from... ). Beautiful evening, nice, easy going.
Then we met alone and talked a few days later. He told me a lot of things out of his life, some of which surprised me, some did not. There must be a lot of trust on his side, too, 'cause... some of this stuff was really pretty personal. I won't go into details here, it would not be fair to him.
But what I can say is... yes, there are a few things which might... prove to be obstacles for an intimate relationship. I'm no longer naive enough to see and hear that and rush in anyway. (I was when I was younger...). I don't want to hurt anyone, but I don't want to get hurt, either. All the less when it is perfectly foreseeable. There are patterns I don't want him to repeat with me. So... I stay there (I don't run away from people who honestly tell of their fears and pitfalls), but I wait. And the waiting is perfectly okay for the moment. There are a few things only fools rush in
Love,
Kitty

Kitty,

Sounds like you have a plan!

Love

Dave

Dave,
no, not really. I simply know that I don't want to be a secret... I told you he was married before... what I didn't know was that he is having a relationship with someone. (They are not living together, but nonetheless...) I'm grateful he told me about her before anything physical happens between us. Seems like that woman (whom he is having that long distance relationship with) was part of the reasons why he got divorced... which is okay... but whatever happens... I will not get myself used insofar as being a reason for leaving that longtime long distance relationship. I just know what I'm worth to myself and what I don't want if getting involved with sb. That's no plan, that simply is a fact.
Love,
Kitty