Right now the primary campaign for the Presidency is well under way and that in both major parties that there is a very open race going on, and I am willing like I did in 2000 to make some "predictions" although they will not be who the candidates are at the moment - in order to do that, the races will have to narrow down quite a bit, and that I do not think will happen for some time to come, and that possibly one or both of the conventions in the summer of 2008 may actually be somewhat of a true convention like those of olden days with (actually not really) "smoke-filled rooms" and deals being made behind the candidates backs to come up with a candidate. The picking of Bush over Gore was pretty obvious based on their charts but the really weird thing was calling the delay in the vote count correctly - but, hey Mercury had been retro until Election Day and it was obvious that something was going to happen.

Why is this so? One only has to look at two of the major planets - Mars and Saturn - and both of them are slowly moving retrograde now, and with Mars not going direct until Jan. 30, 08 one can see a lot of spinning wheels and surprises in the primary elections and caucuses up until that point - and many of the states moved their primaries into this section of the calendar and boy will this make a real mess and a lot of time, money and energy being spent without much to show for it. Saturn will be retrograde until May 3rd, and that will add to this slowness as well. And right now and going into the beginning of the new year, Mars will be opposing Pluto (the second pass) and also the fact the Pluto will be entering Capricorn in late January will change the energy of the election tremendously as well... Mars does not get back to the point that it started to retrograde until April 6th (conjunct the US Sun and Sirius), and will not get into Leo until May 9th- then the campaigns will really start to fly - Cancer and Mars do not get along well... but that most of the primaries if not all of them will be over.

I have not looked at the US chart and see where this all takes place in the chart, but if I recall Pluto is in the 1st house, Mars is in the 7th house and Saturn probably the 9th house. Add to that Jupiter being in the first house as well, and it really could be a dandy of an election. I will do so in a day or so.

OK - lets look at both of the major parties, and the Democrats will be looked at first simply because of alphabetic order. The two major candidates are Hillary and Osama - and it is my feeling that one of these two will be at least the front runner going into the convention and the deal that I see happening is that Hillary will be the presidential choice and Osama the vice presidential. Why? Simply because of a scenario that passed through my mind many months ago while Saturn and Neptune were affecting my chart. And if this is the case, then the Democrats will probably win the election but that Hillary will not serve out her first term due to some huge political mistakes that she has made and will continue to make. That is all that I will say.

For the Republicans, the picture is much more muddier, particularly now that Huckabee is starting to come into the foreground. The only one that I feel certain about not making it is Fred Thompson - when I saw him a few times on a newscast recently and he looks like death warmed over, and while I do not want anything to happen with him, he will be dropping out soon. Guilani and either McCain or Huckabee are my best guesses as to whom the race will boil down to - and with the Repuplicans, the conservatives will be spliting their votes which will help Guilani keep going, and my best guess is again, that when they meet at their convention that the nominee will not be chosen.

Later on after the races have shaken out a bit I will look at the charts of the leading candidates in each party, but that will not be at least until Mars goes direct.

There ain't no Osama in the race!!!

It's Obama. Barack Obama.

A little Neil Young to get things rocking:

Lookin' For A Leader

"Maybe it's a woman or a black man after all."

Maria

Maria,

Thank you for the correction!

I looked at the US chart, and both the transits of Saturn and Mars affect the same planets - Mars by conjunction and Saturn by sextile - Jupiter and Venus - also Mars goes (and has done it already) back into the 7th house.

The chart of the US is attached.

You're welcome, Dave. I'm sure a lot of people accidentally make that mistake, since we've had Osama hammered into our heads and Obama is just one letter different. Rather an unfortunate coincidence for Barack Obama, but I hope it won't decrease his chances of election in and of itself.

When I click to the chart you attached, it gets resized too small by the automatic resizer, so let me try pasting it into a reply and see if it shows better...



Maria

Maria,

Again, thanks!

Turnout at the Democratic caucuses in Iowa was estimated at more than 239,000, compared to 125,000 four years ago and 59,000 in 2000. The turnout included record numbers of young and first-time caucusers, who voted overwhelmingly for Obama, handing him a decisive win. Generations X and XI have finally found a reason to stand up and be counted, and I am thrilled for Obama!

w00t w00t w00t!

Maria

Another record turnout of voters, this time in New Hampshire. And that's an overall record, regardless of party, for the New Hampshire primary. (The Iowa caucuses may well have been an overall record too, but at the time that I was grabbing the stat above, I was only looking at the Dems.)

Hillary eased off the cast-iron conquistadora bit and let a little humanity show, and I think it helped her edge Obama. So the Dems still have two front runners, and that's a good thing to keep things fluid at this point. Obama still made the better speech afterward, I have to say. Too bad Edwards doesn't seem to have either an organization like Hillary's or the grass-roots support of Obama to make it a three-way race. He does have a clear progressive agenda.

I think some of the Independent voters in New Hampshire who told pollsters they would vote for Obama instead figured he was maybe going to win it anyway, so they decided they'd vote in the Republican primary instead of the Democratic primary and boosted McCain to victory.

It was good to see McCain win on the Republican side. He's an honest straight-shooter. And with McCain in New Hampshire and Huckabee taking Iowa, it's got to make the old-line, organization-man Republicans start wondering if it might not just be true that the whole blessed country wants change in the wake of W's shambolic presidency. No more Party Men from the Republicans, thankyewverymuch.

I haven't looked at any candidate's natal chart yet myself, but I do think this race is shaping up to be mighty interesting.

Maria

Maria,

With as many candidates as they are, it would be a huge chore to look at the charts!

I've been watching the debates and plowing through lots of coverage. You can watch debates even after they've aired at cnn.com. Last night's was quite good. It's down to Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, and they both did really well. As one commentator said, Democrats like both of them, they continue to like both of them, and they want to vote for both of them. I think that about says it in terms of your prediction of a ticket with both on it. I have to think it would be an unbeatable ticket.

This picture is from cnn.com...

Maria

Maria,

I would agree - but hey, who will the presidental and vice-presidental candidates. I have the feeling the egos are going to get in the way...

I expect that Tuesday that one, it will be a long time coming to get results and that it will not help "decide".

Hey Dave and all

So then Dave, it's Saturn in Libra in the 10th and not in the 9th?

I would have thought Saturn in the 9th to be a telling placement, but then again in Libra it's also well placed.

I do not share in being excited about this 'election.' Many candidates are GONE before most states even had a primary vote. What a joke this system is. It just feels like more New World Order, same old same old.

Kucinich was kicked out of running by the media, mainly. He was my man for progressive politics, peace, and integrity.

I am pretty much on the fence as to whether I will even bother to vote, because it would feel like participating in a sick system.

I WWGWS
(I Wonder What Greg Would Say)

The main thing that will weigh on my decision to vote will be over imperial foreign policy and the Iraq war. Based on these two speeches made in 02 and especially the decision to authorize Bush by Hillary I could never vote for Hillary and could consider Barack.
One of them, Barack Obama, spoke out against the war in October of 2002, before it started. http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php

The other one, Hillary Clinton, voted to authorize that war only 8 days later.
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=233783

PD,

It was funny about what I said about the two of them running together. Yesterday evening, CBS News had an item about that and that somewhat with Hillary's campaign said that it was possible, but that Hillary would have to be the top dog. Obama's campaign said that only he is still running for president.

Hey Maria! Are you going to the caucus? HMMMM????

I'm debating on whether or not I will. My boss is going to go, and I kind of want to go just for the fact that I've never been to one. However, I'm kind of afraid that I'll be one of the least knowledgeable people there, mainly because I don't keep up with the primaries (too many people, too much BS and ripping each other apart in idiotic ways so I just don't pay attention). However, I've taken a look at Clinton and Obama and their views on things on their websites, and from what I can tell, they are pretty much the same on their policies, it's more in what they place emphasis on in their policies.

Whoever said that they probably couldn't be running mates because of egos is exactly right. I don't see them being running mates at all. Despite the fact that they agree on the most basic things, their images contrast in fundamental ways, and I just don't see either one of them buckling to the other...

Greg would first publish about 5,000 words on the Electoral Col ledge. Then a 1,000 on each candidate. including their TOD, BOD, and PoB, qualifications and underlying secret agenda's and true motives, followed by a list of who they actually represent.

And then sum up with it really doesn't matter because Love is all there is and everything is as it should be.

Which would remind him to post another 3,000 words tomorrow on sound bite coverage and the down fall of civilization.


Something like that,

Eros

Proxymoon,

Haha!

Love is all there is, yup. Always good to be reminded.

Oops I meant Eros

yeah Prox....and then he would say that the parties are all the same and controlled by the same elitists....so that it does not really matter who you side with because none of them side with US.

PD....I agree...Dennis might be a bit of an odd duck, but he has good things to say and 'since anyone can grow up to be pres', why is it that the mainstream media chooses for us who we want to listen to?

They did the same thing with Ron Paul, who I happen to think has a very good grip on the true nature of things behind the scenes.

And all in all...it does'nt matter....because they choose for us who we get to listen to....pity they don't think we are capable of making up our own minds.

In the New York primary Ron Pauls name was manually crossed off all the ballots and people voting were told he is no longer on the ballot.

A bold face lie....there has definitly been media blackouts against a select few.......

I think one of the things we are going to see in this election is mass fraud like Florida could not have dreamt of.....even with the help of 'cousin Chad'

And 'Ria....I worry for Obama's safety.....I think if he does too well....someone will take him out.....and I think it would be an inside job....it would be easy to pull off, because it would be even easier to blame some racist......

I sure don't trust that broad thats running........

*sigh* (as Ginny would say)......as long as I can remember I have wanted a woman for president......now we finally get one on the ballot.....and it's a Bilderberg member.....



Dani

and I love that "IWWGWS"

me too......and my dad.....boy I'd love to talk with my dad about this right now...

I had a great conversation with a WW2 vet yesterday and his view points blew my mind...not at all what I expected.......

Well Dani,

It's nice to see you again, and I can relate to all you say.

"And all in all...it does'nt matter....because they choose for us who we get to listen to....pity they don't think we are capable of making up our own minds."

And so the problem is when everyone goes and votes for these. !!!!

I love it when people say one can clean up the mess, and it's someone who helped create the mess.

Ah well, whatever happens will be just what the nation needs to bring about its Conscious Evolution.

Aw, ya cynics. Obama brought Democrats out of the woodwork in Colorado Springs, where they normally hide to take cover from the evangelical Focus on the Family militant Republican folks. Out of the woodwork, I tell you, and into the caucuses. These are the free-range western states, which swung from Republican red toward blue-color blue in 2006. They don't like politics as usual, and they believe a vote for Obama says so. That's what I got from hanging out at four precinct caucuses on Super Tuesday, anyway. Carrie, I didn't participate in the caucus myself, but I was observing.

As for media complaints, I'm going to beat my drum again and say you have to turn off the TV (except when the debates are on) and read. There was quite a bit favorably written about Dennis Kucinich in The Nation, and certainly I found him a relevant candidate and I know other people who also did. But even in Michigan, which didn't matter in the delegate race this year, but which no Democrat campaigned in except Kucinich, he couldn't get enough of the primary vote to even send a message of "Hey, look at me!"

And Ron Paul ... I don't really want to get into a thing about Ron Paul, but to me, that dude is not quite right. I saw TV coverage of political letters that have gone out under his name in the past, and he didn't dispute that they had, and I'll just suggest they didn't seem to reflect a terribly evolved consciousness, imo. Candidate's records of their political activity are germane and have to be examined.

Anyway, Proxy, I would like to hear Greg's take too, and it was nice of you to remind us something of how it would go.

Maria

Maria,


First of all, I am not surprised that Dennis Kucinich did not do well - he is from Ohio and outside of Cleveland where he is from, he has never done well - his politics as someone said makes a liberal look like a conservative.

It looks like the Republican race is "over", but time will tell - apparently Huckabee has some real liabilities to deal with. The question of whom his veep will be has started to be brought up.

As for the Democrats, well, 3 votes separate them. It could well be a barn burner all the way to the convention and there has been some talk that the "super-delegates" may ultimately control it. Who are they - they are the current elected officials such as Senators, etc...

Now....you just said to 'turn off the tv'...and then you said you saw tv coverage of his alleged racist remarks.

He DID dispute them, but his statement against the article was never published in any MSM, nor on the radio and certainly not on tv.

here is his response to that article:

January 8, 2008 5:28 am EST

ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – In response to an article published by The New Republic, Ron Paul issued the following statement:

“The quotations in The New Republic article are not mine and do not represent what I believe or have ever believed. I have never uttered such words and denounce such small-minded thoughts.

“In fact, I have always agreed with Martin Luther King, Jr. that we should only be concerned with the content of a person's character, not the color of their skin. As I stated on the floor of the U.S. House on April 20, 1999: ‘I rise in great respect for the courage and high ideals of Rosa Parks who stood steadfastly for the rights of individuals against unjust laws and oppressive governmental policies.’

“This story is old news and has been rehashed for over a decade. It's once again being resurrected for obvious political reasons on the day of the New Hampshire primary.

“When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to the product. For over a decade, I have publicly taken moral responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my name.”

###

-----------------------------

and I again find it sadly interesting, that the old New Republic article was dragged out, as it is any time he runs for congress, but his response to it was never made public. Only in fringe papers and in his own towns' Centre Daily.

Which proves my point that he was puposely kept from the public eyes and ears.

And sweetie, I never get my news from TV.

How do you think I found him in the first place?

I also need to add that the head of the Texas NAACP came forward and said that the article in The New Republic was crap and that he has personally known Ron for over 30 years and that he is the farthest thing from a racist that we have in Washington.

*sigh* as Ginny would say....but we did'nt hear that either did we?

I have a friend who works for CBS radio and he told me that the orders to not mention Ron came from the top dawgs at CBS.

And once again I say, if he is so bad, why don't they go ahead and let him talk and make a fool of himself?

Looks to me like they are afraid of the message AND the messenger.

He came in 2nd in Nevada, but they only mentioned 1st and 3rd...he won Louisianna, but his delegates were called back DURING the election and asked to re-register....have you ever heard of such a thing?

Nope....and it was never reported either.....

He has filed for a re-count, but that too is not reported.

Exit polls had him in 1st place in W Virginia, but oddly enough when the votes were talleyed...he had zero.......wonder where all those votes went?

Obama is a great guy and I hope to hell he can beat the crap out of Hillary, but the fact remains that The Bilderbergs have chosen Hillary...they call her 'the annointed one' as they did her hubby and the shrub and the shrubs' big daddy.

Along with Ford and Carter.....Greg was right.

I wish Obama well...but he is still my 2nd choice.

But Ron is a moot point, because The Bilderbergs control all MSM media and they won another round and beat the guy down into oblivion.

Most people are not going to educate themselves beyond the sound bites on TV and so they play into the game like good little sheeple.

And I figure there's a very good chance they will live to regret it.

Plus....I expect Hillary, who could not be bothered with Michigan or Florida either, to suddenly fight for our delegates to be seated.....because she is going to need them!

And THAT will more than likely be followed by a nice offer in DC for our Gov. Granholm.

Dani

Dear Maria,

I agree with you about the energy being where Obama is. It was not him I was talking about who absolutely had a hand in invading Iraq. Let's hope he is really the man of his speeches.

"Looks to me like they are afraid of the message AND the messenger."

Well said, Dani.

Love,

Good information Dani... thanks for sharing.

It just reinforces my cynicism that nothing changes. Same ol, same ol. The canidate that the elite want will get in and most likely win. We the people have no control over their crooked system. They just blackball, discredit and give no time or attention to those that the people would want in power, and then flip the votes for their canidate. They never did fix that voting machine problem, and there is no way to recount votes...

So, it's all stacked against the good guy. How do you beat a crooked corrupt system?