Thanks so much, Dave!

Have been attempting to find the time of speech with no luck. Anyone out there with an idea on how to pinpoint the time?

Well, people began posting it around 10:15 AM so I am guessing it was right around 10 AM, Tuesday, March 18, in Philadelphia... Do you think that's good enough for a chart, Dave?

Would you be looking at it is an event of itself and/or in relation to his chart?

Love,

Dear juniperb,

"the tip of the ring finger" Ah, there you are!

I'm at the tricep of Cape Cod.

Love,

PD,

Both!

Cool, Dave.

I guess there wouldn't be an "exact time" as in minutes and seconds for the speech, as in it was being conceptualized and then took some time to deliver, right?

Love,

PD,

In a case like this, one uses the start time - that is when the thoughts became conscious to the world. I will work on it tonight!

Hi All,

I've just had a quick peek at both Hillary's and Obama's charts and from what I can see, things look a lot more favorable for Hillary than Obama. Now, I have no idea who is leading the race so far as I know zero about politics, and I haven't looked at any of the other candidate's charts either so I can't really give a fair assessment. Have you Dave or anyone else checked out the other candidates charts?


Tracey

Tracey,

I have not looked at anyone else's chart simply because the Democrats are down to eithe Obama or Hillary, and the Republican nominee is John McCain, and that is for the general election.

I am curious about your take of the transits. I ran a list of them for each person, and here they are - Hillary's are two pages worth.

PD,

The chart for the beginning of the speech is also attached. With Gen=mini on the ascendant, that indicates communication is important - and the collection of planets in the 10th house (Venus, Neptune, Node and Mercury) indicate that this is done with love, fated and dreamy - and Saturn is opposing them all in the 4th house briing it down to the Earth - and the Moon is starting to oppose all of those planets as well, although it is in Leo. Mars is square these planets (and Saturn) so it gave some energy to the situation and with Mars in the 2nd house, it is about him doing something about his values and with Jupiter and Pluto in the 8th, it indicates that this will be of help with the values of others and will help him with $$$.

In short, it was fairly well timed.

Maria,

I have absolutely no idea why the first two files are as file images and the latter two as inline - I would prefer all of them to be inline!

Dear Dave,

Thank you so much for the chart as well as your analysis. IMHO that speech was one of the best things to come out of a campaign in many years. We'll see how it plays.

Love,

A few days later CBS's political analyst said that it seemed to work well, and the fact that it has dropped off the "newsworthy" statu says a lot about it...

Good point, Dave. Let's hope positive changes are in store and that we do not end up with another corporatist empire warmonger president as well as less of them in congress.

Ask and you shall receive. Here is what I saw when I took that quick peek of their charts...

The ruler of Hillary's 10th house of career is Mercury which she has at 21* Scorpio and between now and the election, she will have Jupiter & Saturn sextile and Uranus trine it. With transits like that, the opportunity to kick start and build a great career as president (maybe ) can certainly be hers for the taking. She also has Pluto gaining up on her Progressed Sun so a position of power could very well be on the horizon for her. On election day, Mars the action planet will be right on her Mercury. Need I say more? LOL She does have Neptune squaring her Mercury, but that could be the dissolution of her current career as senator, which will take some adjusting on her part I'm sure.

Obama on the other hand - his 10th house ruler (if we have the right birth time) is the Sun which he has at 12* Leo and the only transit he has on election day is a square from the Sun, and if you count the Nodes, the transiting S Node will be approaching it. Unless he was the President in a past life and this transit gives him another chance to experience that, it doesn't look too promising that he will be in this life at this time.

Have you looked at McCain's chart yet? Who else is left in the race?


Tracey

Tracey,

I have not done McCain's chart in this thread simply because while he is the Republican nominee, the Democrats do not have one as of yet - and that is what this thread is about - the primary season which when I started it was a lot more open on both sides of the aisle.

Which leads me to something you mentioned in both Clinton's and Obama's chart analysis - election day - do you mean in November? If so, then that is way too far ahead, as there are other factors going on (such as the time the both candidates are offically nominated - if I recall the 2000 election, Gore was nominated during a void of course Moon which was a huge factor.

So, the bottom line is really between now and May 20th when the last of the states have the primaries - Kentucky. The little I ghave seen of the news commentators indicate that this is critical as if Obama does not get enough delegates to "win" by then, the nominee will be decided at the convention in August.

I hope this helps!

Hi Dave,

I did what I could with the graphics in your post above. Those Solar Fire time maps are kind of hard to get to show up well.

One thing on the timing of Obama's speech. Sorry I didn't pop in to mention this earlier. It was scheduled to start at 10:15 a.m. in Philadelphia, as I recall, and the news stations kept jumping over to the hall and jumping back any time anyone moved. But it didn't start until at least 15 minutes later -- around 10:30 Eastern, I think, although I don't have the precise time either.

Very little would change, of course. But just thought I'd mention...

Maria

P.S. The file size of the attachment has to be less than 50,000 KB to get rendered into the post inline.

Maria,

You're right, but hey, I will redo them!

The reality for Democrats, because Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are so equally supported, is that neither can mathematically clinch the nomination with pledged delegates from primaries and caucuses run according to the party rules. It's unclear what solution will be found for delegates from Michigan and Florida, where votes were held too early.

But there's no question the votes of superdelegates will have to be counted in, even after all primaries and caucuses have been held and their delegates awarded, in order for either of the candidates to go over the top to the magic number of delegates needed to win the nomination. Some of those superdelegates have already endorsed one or the other candidate; a few hundred, though, have not. They are elected officials and party leaders, including some fairly ordinary citizens elected to leadership in their state parties.

Obama is ahead in the popular vote count, the delegate vote count and number of states won. The delegate vote count is determinative. Clinton is hoping she can show good results in the remaining state contests and get superdelegates to go her way. Obama, of course, is hoping the same and has the advantage of already being ahead.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, Democrat of California, has said it would be bad for the party if the votes of superdelegates end up coming to be seen as overtuning the will of the people as registered through pledged delegates. So a lot may be waiting to see what the final pledged delegate counts are.

The Washington Post is reporting today that Clinton plans to take this race all the way into the August convention.

Washington Post story

What a political year!

Maria

Maria,

I agree! A "smoke filled" room perhaps...

I did redo the chart for the speech (attached) and it is actually a little better for Obama - Uranus which had been in the 11th house move to the 10th...

Thanks all for your analyses. It is going to be interesting, at least.

It's now a bit over a month later, and it seems that there is no winner per se, although the networks are saying that Hillary is thinking of pulling out, and Inside Edition showed a photo of Bill that had him a bit gray, which considering he has had a heart by-pass, that is not good. However, good old Rush Limbaugh said this morning that the networks are writing Hillary off simply because she's a woman (Rush defending a Clinton - unheard of!), and that it could well go on - and Hillary is proposing a division of the Michigan and Florida delegations that seems "reasonable".

We'll see...

Hi Dave & EveryOne,

I thought I would share these two articles that were on my AOL homepage today about which candidate some of our nation's top astrologers think will win the presidency. Enjoy!

"Astrologers share a sense of foreboding about election"
Agree that a time of upheaval is coming; Saturn, Uranus opposed on Nov. 4

May 21, 2008
By Joe Hanel | Herald Denver Bureau

DENVER - Forget about Tuesday's votes in Oregon and Kentucky. Barack Obama has won the Cosmic Primary and is destined to be the next president of the United States.

Seven leading astrologers consulted their charts and came to the unanimous conclusion, which they shared Tuesday at the United Astrology Conference in Denver.

Although the crowd of several hundred cheered at the forecast, the seven panelists shared a sense of foreboding.

"There are things that are going to happen in the next couple of months that could turn the game into something different than we think it is right now," said Shelley Ackerman, a New York City astrologer who appears frequently on television and radio shows.

A time of upheaval is coming, they agreed. Election Day - Nov. 4 - will put Saturn in opposition to Uranus, meaning the two planets are aligned at opposite ends of the zodiac. Saturn symbolizes experience and the establishment. Uranus is the planet of change and youth. When they are opposed, the country sees a period of "revolutionary fervor," said Raymond Merriman, the panel's moderator. The last Saturn-Uranus opposition was from 1965-67, a time of drastic cultural change.

Other astrological events during the summer make the election unpredictable. Democrats will gather in Denver for their national convention in August - the same month as a solar eclipse and a partial lunar eclipse.

The events raise the possibility of President Bush somehow interfering with the election, said Robert Hand of Reston, Va.

In fact, most of the astrologers on the panel weren't sure if the winner of the election would be the same person taking the oath of office on Inauguration Day. Some of them expressed concern about Obama's personal safety.

"I'm hoping they really pump up the security around him. I'm just really concerned about that," said Sandra Leigh-Serio of Boulder.

And the election gets even trickier for astrologers.

It's the single most "screwed-up" election from an astrological perspective in decades, Hand said.

"We don't have a single solid birth chart, so this is going to be very difficult," Hand said.

Astrologers think Hillary Clinton was born at 8:02 a.m. Oct. 26, that John McCain was born at 9 a.m. Aug. 29 and that Obama was born at 7:11 p.m. Aug. 4. But those times might not be accurate, and if they're not, then all bets are off with the candidates' astrological charts, Hand said.

And most menacing of all, whoever wins might regret it. The charts don't look good at all for Jan. 20, Inauguration Day.

"Whoever gets sworn in, it ain't going to work too well," Ackerman said.

http://www.durangoherald.com/asp-bin/art...ews080521_1.htm

An exerpt of an article from the Denver Post:

"Astrologers starry-eyed for Obama"
May 20, 2008
By William Porter / Denver Post Columnist

The United Astrology Conference was in Denver this week. On Tuesday, seven top forecasters took the stage in the downtown Sheraton and made like television political pundits, minus the screaming.

Six panelists predicted the election will go to Barack Obama, thanks to a Saturn-Jupiter conjunction spelling change. The seventh, Shelley Ackerman, saw an Obama win, but worried about Neptune doing something funky in January, endangering his chances of actually taking office. Her colleagues agreed the stars did look dicey in this respect.

Panelist Sandra-Leigh Serio ran it down for me.

"Obama's chart and the United States' chart are very much alike," she said. "From an astrological standpoint, he's a man of destiny. (John) McCain also has a strong connection to the U.S. chart."

Hillary Clinton? Eh, not so much, apparently. "There's a little more confusion with her and the U.S. chart," Serio said.

Gloria Star noted that Clinton has looming problems with Neptune. While signs indicate she will be gone from the scene on Election Day, other signs "indicate she's fighting somewhere."

So there it is, courtesy of our top astrologers: Obama wins, probably.

The rest of the article can be found at: http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_9327085

Tracey,

Thanks for the articles. They basically say what I have been - and as I said way earlier, I won't deal with the general election until the Democratic candidate is definite, i.e., at this point until Hillary concedes - and the Neptune problem will make that difficult, especially since it is about to go retrograde.

I am not surprised that Robert Hand has some different times, and knowing him (for about 30 yeats!) I will check out the differences and get back.

You're welcome Dave. I thought you would like those articles. Even though all the experts including yourself are leaning toward Obama, I still think that Hillary has the winning chart. And that's after having looked at McCain's chart and Obama's again with the birth time they all used. But winning chart doesn't necessarily mean winner in this country. LOL

I also wanted to mention that there was a natal aspect in Obama's chart that kind of disturbed me. Mercury opposite Jupiter in a loose T-square with Neptune. And McCain has Jupiter square Neptune (and a loose square to the Sun & Venus) as well. Do you really think either of these 2 can be trusted to lead our nation? Call me and an amateur or what you will, but I'm really routing for Hillary.

The reporter for the Durango paper certainly did a better job covering the conference than the reporter for the Denver Post. Reporters are at least supposed to try to understand what they're covering. All it takes is a basic knowledge of the solar system, together with a grasp of math, particularly geometry. Granted, all the ways of interpreting things demand a historical knowledge of cultural symbolism, but my guess is that the goofball from the Post is just plain math-challenged.

Maria

Hey there, Dave. It looks like they used the same times I posted earlier for Hillary and McCain. The change in the Obama birth time (which I had noted earlier was very iffy) seems to be based on this:
Still seems relatively iffy to me, but at any rate, the Aqua rising makes a great deal of sense to me. And 7:11 numerologically ... wow! The dreamer (7) and the change-agent (11) makes sense too. Plus, I'm nearly finished reading his first book, and he so obviously intellectualizes his emotions, which is a thoroughly Aquarian thing to do, although one could also chalk that up to his Gemini Moon.

Anyway, I'm going to try to make the charts that you posted on page 2 of this thread show up inline, and then I may post new chart pictures here now from Astrolog, because I just find them easier to look at and read than the others.

Maria