Roughly, as a rule of thumb, we can say that if someone has the sun in his 10th house, it means that he was born around noontime and if he has the moon in 10th, he was born late at night. Now, I was curious whether it is possible to have both Sun and Moon in 10th house. This placement will be possible only on new moon days, but when should he have been born i.e. at what time?

Or, is it a blatantly silly question?

General disclaimer: In these politically correct days, it may be worthwhile to mention that for the above question, unless repugnant to the context, masculine includes feminine and vice versa.

i have the sun in the 10th, but i wasn't born anywhere near noon-time . . .

Gitzy, gitzy, goo!
It is a Blatantly Spears serous question!

Well, for one thing I don’t think the Moon is on a 24 hr clock or even a 60 hr clock so over time, waiting for the Moon to be new at Noon would be some formula like 1440 X 60 X (Z/cream pie squared + the pink light frequency at Sunset; in other words, some unknown function.)

So, lets say aprrox. Ever 23.7 years or very randam or seldom would the new Moon occur at noon. The Sun At Noon means your ACS is the same as your Sun sign (that how the daily are done), which is the first house. So you see all that serous thinking was for not.

Finally, just for the record, you were born with the Sun in Serous and the Moon in Sad.
If you don’t lean to lighten up, your 10th house is going to explode.

Tickle, tickle, tickle,
Now go mess up your room.
Darwin

???

Amykins......dear, if your Sun is in the 10th house, you must have been born somewhere around noon....

Ani...my granddaughter who will be 8 years old in November, has both the Sun and Moon in Scorpio in the eighth house...

Luv,
Rainbow~

(Oh Ani...you are so cute, with your disclaimer )

Hi Ani

Your observation about the Sun in 10th around midday is correct, but the Moon can be in any house at any time, depending on the current lunar phase. That is, on the new Moon day the Moon will be in the same house as the Sun; on the full Moon day, it will be in the house opposite the Sun; and so on.

So the direct answer to your question (don't you love the Virgo ramble ) is that the Sun and Moon will both be in the 10th house when the birth occurs around midday at the time of the new Moon.

Greg

Wow! Three for one. Must be a summer time special.

All three of you are wrong.

Anyone one else what to deney their charts, be passive agresive, or make out landish statements this fine wonderful morning.

Hey, I am just doing my magic.
You don't have to believe me.

Love and Charts,
Darwin

Oh Greg,

You and your facts.

I was shooting from the hip. Hey, 50% right is good odds.
So what was I thinking of? When the ACS is the same as the Sun.

Hmmm, reminds me of stopping for cantaloupe in Green River, Utah.
The sign said 3 for a $1. Then the farmer says, Nooo! That’s the guy next door.
Mine are 35 cents a lb.

I looked next door and there wasn’t a sign of life for a mile.

Darwin

Proxy, I wouldn't trade your entertainment for all the facts in the world!

So did you buy the cantaloupe?

Love,
Greg

Thanks Greg . Yeah I loved that Virgo ramble - made things very clear. But then, Greg, how come Amy wasn't born around noon if she has sun in 10th?

Darwin didn't I tell you that most of the time I don't understand what you say? But that bit about 1440 x 60 x etc etc did seem vaguely understandable. But then, if my sun is serious and moon sad, i can't mess up my room, can I?

Rainbow . Your granddaughter must've been born around 9 o clock in the morning on a new moon day? No? oh well, I was just trying to calculate charts without having to refer to an ephemeris (my new found fad for the past few days)

I dunno, Amykins what IS your birth data if you don't mind? If your Sun is in 10th house you'd have to have been born around midday (allowing a 2-hour "window," since it takes the Sun 2 hours to move completely through each house?

As for Sun and Moon in 8th house, it would actually be after noon -- after sunrise the Sun spends 2 hours in the 12th house, then 2 hours in the 11th, 2 hours in the 10th, 2 hours in the 9th, and then 2 hours in the 8th. So Tianna would have been born in the early afternoon, anywhere from 8 to 10 hours after sunrise ... right Rainbow~?

Oh I see, Greg. I was counting in the opposite direction. Actually, just the other day I discovered how to find somebody's lagna without seeing the ephemeris. It went like : count one sign for every 2 hours from the sign the sun is in at birth (that we'll all know, for example right now sun is in virgo), taking 6 o clock as the sunrise time (India it rises at 6 usually). But this couting went clockwise. After locating the Asc thus, one would again need to see the houses, which I completely missed. But even then, Greg, wouldn't we need to know at least the month of birth?

And, just one more thing - by mistake, I put the heading to this thread as sun-and-moon-in-12th when it should have been sun-and-moon-in-10th. Is there a way Greg whereby you could correct the heading? (Virgo me )

Hi Greg,

Thanks. I wouldn’t either. Hehe
Yes, I got one cantaloupe and it was really good so I wish I had got more.
I got a bit sidetracked because my daughter had latched on to a 20 lb. Watermelon and wasn’t going to give it up.

ani, - I saw a very bad, dirt covered Jeep for sale really cheap on the way home last night. It had your name on it. It said, Wranger!
Yes, you can mess up your room, but it will feel strange.

Hi Ani and everyone!!!

Math!!!! God save us

Well, my son has a 10th house, um, sun, and he was born at 10am, so this noon thing isn't quite right?

Love TanyaXX

april 19th, 1979; 9:49 am; san francisco
with the koch hs. system, the sun is in the 10th

Dar
Sometimes I luv ya

Nice to see you out from under your bed - stay out cos I luv your posts
Specially when they make me smile
Sue aka Blondie

Hi all,

I didn't realize I was going to get myself in trouble with this observation ... shoulda known!

Okay, for anyone who's interested here's the actual technical scoop: "Sun in the the 10th at noon" is a useful approximation if you're trying to guesstimate the houses without an ephemeris and table of houses. It's based on the fact that the zodiac rises above the horizon at the rate of one degree every four minutes -- a full sign every two hours. Therefore if sunrise is at 6 am, then the Sun will be 90 degrees above the ascendant six hours later at noon. In the equal house system that Linda used (and I usually use), that is the 10th house cusp, since each house is exactly 30 degrees. In the Koch or Placidus house systems, the houses may be a little more or less than 30 degrees, depending on your latitude and the time of year (this is what causes "intercepted" signs, which don't exist in the equal house system!) -- therefore six hours after dawn using either of these systems could be a little bit on either side of the 10th house cusp, putting the Sun in either the 9th or 10th house.

In your case Amykins, on the day you were born the Sun rose at 5:33 AM in San Francisco. That's the moment when it crossed over the Ascendant from the first house to the 12th house. Two hours later, at 7:33 AM, it would have moved 30 degrees and crossed over from the 12th house to the 11th house, and two hours after that, at 9:33 AM it would have crossed over from the 11th house into the 10th house, and would have remained there for yet another 2 hours before crossing into the 9th house at 11:33 AM. So anyone born between 9:33 and 11:33 AM would have the Sun in 10th (which includes your birthtime of 9:56).

For UN-equal house systems like Koch and Placidus, this may vary a little bit, since the houses are not exactly 30 degrees wide. In Koch your Sun is still in the 10th, but in Placidus it is in the 11th!

So to sum up, in the equal house system the Sun will be in the 10th house from 4 to 6 hours after sunrise, and it will be right ON the 10th house cusp precisely 6 hours after sunrise. This will be NOON only when local sunrise is exactly at 6 AM. For other house systems, the Sun may be a little bit before or after the 10th house cusp at 6 hours past sunrise, depending on when and where you were born ... but it will always be somewhere close to the "top" of your chart in the 9th or 10 house.

And the moral of that story is, be careful what you ask a Virgo!

Greg

"This will be NOON only when local sunrise is exactly at 6 AM."

This was the missing part of the puzzle folks. Hehehe, I had a good laugh

Yeah, Amy... Greg said there was a two hour window...so that would work out....

Gregory and Ani....yes Gregory, Tianna was born at 6:10 pm (or there abouts) I believe....(and Gregory, you remembered her name! )

Ani, a little trick I use, when trying to guesstimate placements in one's chart is to
think of the ASCENDANT (or first house) as sunrise or there abouts, the MIDHEAVEN (or 10th house) as noon or there abouts, the Descendant (or 7th house) as sunset or so, and the NADIR (or 4th house) as midnight or so. But Gregory's Virgo explanation is a good one...

Luv,
Rainbow~

Thanks Greg
Thanks Rainbow~
That was something right after my Virgo heart . Everything explained nice and clear. Now I know why the astrologers here keep placing so much importance on the sunrise time - so much so that we have separate tables for them, going right back to 1900, for ready reference.

And Greg, I am not going to wish you till 12th