Amberlight,

Thank you for your prayers and your love and compassion.

Love Sherry

Thank you Rainbow~. Your brother is a very wise man.

Let's face it, ALL governments (that I am aware of) have committed atrocities against innocent people -- their own people or others, or both. The "free" countries of today all supported slavery in the not too distant past. The killing of Native Americans and "annexation" of their land by the US government is a recent memory in historical terms. The colonization and repression of indigenous people by all the European nations is well documented, as is the torture and murder of those who held different beliefs. And sadly in far too many countries who finally obtained their independence from the oppressive colonizers, the autonomous governments that took over are even more brutal than the colonial governments. In far too many places in the world TODAY, torture, genocide, and rule by terror are the bleak fact of life.

I am no fan of governments. They are ALL expressions of the spiritual darkness that has ensnared the world. Or at best they are mixed, with some elements of light struggling to be heard over the might-makes-right philosophy that has been the backbone of government for millennia.

The thousands of human beings who died in these terrorist attacks are just people. Just ordinary human beings like you and me, like Lorsa and Jade and Biss and Amberlight and all of us here. The suggestion that their murder was justifiable "karma," that somehow they "had it coming to them" because of American misdeeds, turned my stomach and angered me to the breaking point. That view is dangerously close to the view of the terrorists who CARRIED OUT those murders on the premise that Americans are all "Great Satans." I apologize for expressing that anger so vociferously on the site, but I don't apologize for feeling it. That kind of thinking is what LED to this massacre, and the only way out of it for humanity is a consciousness focused on love and compassion, not blaming and retribution.

Thank you for explaining yourself further, Amber, and for your love and compassion - I hope you will stay around and continue to share your light.

Love,
Greg

Gregory .....My brother is a Cancer (with the Sun hiding in the 12th house), with an Aquarian Moon and Leo Rising

Love,
Rainbow~

Amber,
if you want to go - then go
but don`t leave the forum with confusing words and blaming around *you are this ,your are that*, as it says - hit and run,
don`t blame our Creg to be dictatorial because he is the last person here who could be blamed being such neither that this forum is nothing but a loving forum with lovely people, the timing for fighting speeches is just bad, read again the message of Greg tomorrow and you`ll see that what he said is nothing but the right words at that moment, which are not offensive either.
good bye,
peace,

people, I just came from lunch, the downtown Atlanta is packed with people giving donations, bringing food, there are songs from the mikophones playing " God bless America" and " I am proud to be american", people say on the mikrophone- America stay together, Americans will rise above the evil,american flags all over downtown Atlanta and on the cars,
the spirit is AMAZING, it feels like after having drugs, highly spiritual, filled with opthimism , i went to lunch but couldn`t even eat anything..

Rainbow~, very wise words of your brother

Wow!
I just read through all these post and the feeling is very different on this thread then 'Stand Proud' There are people (my self included) questioning America's past and people defending and protecting America's Ideal. But there isn't this anger and judgement. Amberlight, I am the first to say that America is not alone when it comes to helping. But we do foot a lot of the bill when it happens. I question the idea that this is civilaztion against the dark ages, but the reactions are natural and they are just. Make no mistake we as Americans have the power to destroy the world. What we don't have (Thank God) is the inclination. Gregory is so right that it too soon. Most of us are still in shock. No one has a exlusive right to suffering. Understand Americans have been very lucky. We have never been attacked (The comparsions with Pearl Harbor in my opinion are riduclous. Pearl Harbor was a military instalation and the Pacific fleet was supposed to be there, not people going to work and buying bagels and the Japanese have more than paid). This is the first time civilians of our country have been target at our home in our history. It was said through one of the other threads that we are all dealing with it differently.

To all of you out there I ask for prayers of peace. This whole event could spin so out of control.

Below is from the Prophet by Kahlil Gibran. I think his words on friendship would be good to reflect on. We don't know each other but we are all here because we want love and peace in our lives. That's a good place to start a Friendship.

And a youth said, "Speak to us of Friendship."
And he answered, saying: Your friend is your needs answered. He is your field which you sow with love and reap with thanksgiving. And he is your board and your fireside. For you come to him with your hunger, and you seek him for peace.

When your friend speaks his mind you fear not the "nay" in your own mind, nor do you with hold the "aye." And when he is silent your heart ceases not to listen to his heart; For without words, in friendship, all thoughts, all desires, all expectations are born and shared, with joy that is unclaimed. When you part from your friend, you grieve not; For that which you love most in him may be clearer in his absence, as the mountain to the climber is clearer from the plain.

And let there be no purpose in friendship save the deepening of the spirit. For love that seeks aught but the disclosure of its own mystery is not love but a net cast forth: and only the unprofitable is caught.

And let your best be for your friend. If he must know the ebb of your tide, let him know its flood also. For what is your friend that you should seek him with hours to kill? Seek him always with hours to live. For it is his to fill your need, but not your emptiness. And in the sweetness of friendship let there be laughter, and sharing of pleasures.

For in the dew of little things the heart finds its morning and is refreshed.

Love,

Amber

Gregory, thank you for your posts. They do not show any dictatorship. On the other hand - they show respect for the victims of the tragedy and the country where it happened.

Right now is not the time to point out America's mistakes over the years. Especially since this country did so much for freedom and human rights in teh entire world.

Well, since it is an astrological forum, I have an astrological question: everybody is saying there is a Saturn - Pluto opposition right now, but I still don't understand how exactly it is connected to what happened. Need help from more knowledgeable people!

Hi Lana,

I don't think we've met, now i'm only a bay astrologer and most folks round here know a whole lot more.

Pluto is the planet of slow moving power, death and regeneration. It forces us to change stuff whether we like it or not. If somthing is based on unsolid ground it will literally rip it appart.

Staurn is the planet of karma, it teaches us lessons in order that we grow. If this change happens with little resistance it's can be your best freidn, but if you are not flexible and do not role with the punches then it will also rip your world appart. Staurn moves much faster and it much more like having a smack on the bum.

Now an opposition means that each of these plantes holds an opposite opinion. And thus a fight between them arises. I was born wiht this in my natal...HOW COOL IS THAT!!!! NOT!!!

Ok so pluto was in the 2nd house, which is about money and value and possestions. Saturn was in the 8th (which is pluto's natural house). The 8th hosue is all about death, regeneration, joint income, sex, mergers and taxes...like those are all natural things to tie up together. Saturn is teachign a death lesson (a pluto lesson) to the opposite house...Money, possestions and vlaue.

More me the message is one of the value of life over financial considerations. That the monetray and financail systems that are held is such high regard are not worth shit when compared to the human loss.

Over and above that I think (and i can't quite remmebr) that URanust was forming a nasty aspect as well...Uranus forces change upon us.

Now please feel free anyone to correct anything in this, as I said at the beginign I'm just a bay astrologer.

PEACE in our times

Lis

yea.. i know no one wants to read about politics.. but i thought this article summed up the problems raised by the attack well.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1540000/1540364.stm

if you don't want to read about it.. then don't click on it :P

i cried yet again today.. and i am reading as much as i can, and learning the "Why" raised by this tragedy. i thought the above article explained a little on that..

and.. please don't hate me... but i don't want war. i really, really, don't want war. is that wrong?

nicole

Hey Nicole.. I don't want either..
If its a War NOW... In this TIme.. This Millinium The Whole world is going to Vanish...!!!

Nicole What does it say in the Aricle?

Because there are So many Nuclear weapons now.. and As Advenire said... "Biological Weapon.." Which is easy to make and Easy to hide... And Easier to kill..

I don't know I think NOW is the end of The Whole World.. Instead of what everyone was fearing about.. the year 2000... Its NOW, in the end of the year 2001, which might be the end ... DOOMS DAY

Damnn.. the Dog(in our neighborhood) Doesn't Stop Crying!!!!! this means MOre death..

Dear Nicole and Silk,
Nicole: I don't think your wrong I don't want War either. Especially since the rhetoric is turning into a religous war. They are never win-able. We just have to wait and see.
Silk: Sweetie please calm down and try not to stress to much. No matter what happens we all need to keep our wits about us and keep postive and praying for peace. Peace does not mean letting people get away with s$%t. It means a ceasing of the violence, acceptance, and moving forward. That is going to take awhile to happen and it is not going to come about without prayers and love from all people. I've seen on these boards in the past that Linda believed that Love could overcome Karma. WE MUST PUT LOVE OUT THERE. No matter how hard or how tiring we MUST DO IT. Doesn't mean that we aren't going to cry or be angry but we CANNOT, let me restate, WE WILL NOT succumb to hate. We can't afford to. Today is a Natonal Day of Mourning in the U.S. Today I will pray for the healing of those who are directly involved. Those who have lossed, those who are there at ground zero helping. They need our strength and today is a day that our whole nation can focus on them.

Be well you guys.

Love,
Amber

Nicole
I just clicked on the article. I agree with the sentiment stated. Tomorrow must be a day of soul seraching.

Amber

Please, Sonudi, don't panic! Perhaps the dog is injured or ill?