Well.....everyone seemed to be in agreement on one thing where this thread is concerned... that we do what Linda would have wanted us to do! I've found out (in my own personal opinion) what I feel she wanted

I found the birth certificate, in fact I was about to receieve a copy.....I was given instructions, cost etc. I asked the nice lady on the phone to please verify that she had the record so I could be sure! She pulled up the year... month... day and was ever so helpful! Then.... all of the sudden, she started stuttering she asked me who I was and what exactly I wanted the BC for... I explained and was immediately put on hold by the now very nervous woman.

The lady came back and kindly informed me that no such record of birth exists in that county.....the county in which our dear Linda was born during a Spring thunderstorm!

I am now certain that Linda left strict instructions that even in her absence from this earth.... her birth certificate was NOT to be released. The woman on the phone knew full well that Linda was deceased. We can only speculate about what actually popped up on that woman's computer screen, but I'd say that Linda left a very specific request and that request is being honored by the loyal folks at her local county court house.

I guess this answers our question..."What would Linda want?" I blieve she's just answered us herS-elf and I will not pursue it any further. I am certain that she DID make arrangements for the BC to remain hidden. How could anyone deny that is what she wanted?

You'll have to guess at the time! I've given you the exact date (which I've verified) and I feel that's all Linda wanted us to Know! Maybe she wanted her brilliant students to use their own wisdom and exercise their minds trying to figure it out! Well....ya never know

LOve and LIght,
PurplePeace

I have edited this post to make it clearly reflect MY OPINION only and not state my personal opinion to you in a matter of factly kind of a way.

That's so nice of you to have checked Peace!! Yet the woman whom you spoke to probably didn't even have a computer screen to look at though!

Anyways, you did try...oh well...

Perhaps they did recieve instructions from Linda...I guess I just don't "feel" it, though. Maybe they were just giving you a brushoff...you sound convinced that they were under instruction, so, who knows...

Thanks again for trying!

Blessings,

Carlo

Well dude.... if it was THAT easy to get hold of....don't you think someone else would have gotten it by now? And I thought maybe I was the chosen one....NOT Shucks....... did this ever burst my bubble!

Oh well, like Greg says....Onward and Upward

PEACE, LOve and LIght,
PurplePeace

PS Thank you ever so kindly Carlo

Hmmm, how intriguing. Why are you assuming that it was the time of birth that Linda wanted to keep secret?

Looking at my birth certificate, there is all kinds of information available... the age and identities of both parents, the sex of the child, whether it was a single, twin, or triplet birth...

Yes, Stella, I agree with YOU totally. Peace is incorrect when she says:

1) "everyone" seemed to be in agreement

2) that she found out "exactly" what Linda wanted

3) that Linda answered "the question" herself

4) that we'll just have to guess at the time

5) that if it was that easy to get, wouldn't someone else have got it by now

6) that there is somehow a "chosen" one

Quite frankly, I do not think that her entire heart was in it when she made the call. I think she ruined her chance when she said the purpose. That is my opinion, which others may share. And I would bet anyone that if I had the phone number to the county office, and that if at least half of any of us did, we could get a copy without fail. Linda probably left no instructions of any sort. Anyways, Peace tried. I am confident that the next person who undertakes this effort will succeed. Perhaps she called when the Moon was void-of-course. I have no idea. I am just certain that it is possible to get without any real difficulty. It would be easier if Peace would give me the phone number to the county office, yet I bet she won't. I think that she figures that her shot was the one shot, and anyone else here who wants to "try" will have to figure it out themselves. Please either kindly affirm or disaffirm this, dear Archer, and the key word is kindly. What would be your reason, if any, for not passing me the baton?

I hope that you all can take a little criticism in the name of research. I mean you no harm Peace, I think you're terrific! I just think that your effort to get a copy of Linda's chart fell on it's face, and that it didn't have to, and that there is no reason on my part to sugarcoat it. I have no idea why you failed, possibly for the reason in my first unedited post. Whatever the reason, now wasn't the Right Time. And ALL I am offering here in this post is that as certain as Peace is that Linda left some special instructions, I am just as certain that she did not. And it is TOO easy to prove...so Peace, nice and easy, put down the bow...and slide the digits across the table. And rest assured, with or without the phone number being given to me by Peace, I will prove her dead wrong.

Blessings,

Det. Carlo

Crystal,
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this matter, if you would be so kind to share them with us

love and light,
Karen

I don't have enough information to come to any conclusions about this situation, Carlo. In a lot of ways I'm a neutral observer here. PP's post didn't contain enough solid information to gauge what might have actually transpired during this telephone conversation...

But what I AM seeing, from an objective point of view, is that by focusing on only one aspect of this mystery, one is probably missing out on the bigger picture.

From what I've seen on this site so far, Linda appears to have been one amazingly prescient and far-seeing human being... and that maybe by setting up the mystery of her time of birth, she was constructing a red herring which would keep curious and dedicated fans occupied for years... and away from the REAL mystery, if there IS one...

I don't know what the freedom of information and the protection of privacy laws are over there, but maybe one look at that birth certificate convinced Peace's telephone contact to withhold the information off her own bat... and I can't imagine that a time of birth would be enough to cause this reaction, especially since the date of birth had already been confirmed.

Reconstructing Linda's chart might be a harmless pastime, but I think you all need to consider that there might be something deeper that Linda wanted to conceal and that the implications of discovering this secret and revealing it could be far-reaching.

I'm not saying that you should halt your quest... I'm just saying that the sword of Free Will is often double-edged and all implications should be considered... and anticipated.

Okay here's my two cents on this -- all of us who believe strongly in what Linda stood for use our intuition as well as our senses and logical skills to gather information. Peace made a determined effort to get this information, putting in a lot of legwork as well as thought -- and when she finally talked to a registrar who was in a position to give her facts (if they were there), something in that person's response made Peace step back and think "wait a inute, there's something strong here that is making this info too hard to obtain" and took it as a sign that Linda herself didn't want it revealed. That was her intuitive response to the situation, and I think we need to respect that.

Now Carlo, if your intuition is telling you something different, then you should follow YOURS just as Peace is following HERS. No need to nitpick about who is right or wrong, or whether someone else's approach was flawed. It's not like anyone is being stymied here (after all, if we're being good investigators, how hard can it be to track down a county recorder's phone number?)

Then, if and when you DO locate the information that seems to be making itself difficult to find, you will be in a position to use your OWN judgment and intuition about why that is, and what should be widely revealed. Make sense?

Okay everyone... although at first I didn't think it necessary, below is the actual conversation I had as it transpired and to the best of my recollection. I know why I came to my own personal conclusions, but I maybe I didn't give you enough information to come you your own. I must say that Greg pretty much said it as it is. After that conversation... my intuition kicked and and told me that I was disrespecting Linda's wishes and that is something I will NEVER do for any reason, whether it be a noble cause or not! I just cannot go THERE! For that reason, I have stopped my search... although I might be able to fight the system and win, I don't feel that it would be the right thing to do. Being as wise as we all are and being given the many gifts of knowledge that this wonderful woman shared with us, I believe that each of us has the individual responsibility to look inside our S-elves and come to our own conclusions using that wisdom.... and then decide what is right by using what we KNOW to guide us along with our own individual intuition. That is what I have done. I am truly sorry if you all disagree with my way of thinking.

Here goes.....

Me: I need to locate a birth certificat, are you the person I need to speak with.
Clerk:Yes, what can I help you with.
Me: I'd like a copy of a deceased individual's birth certificate.
Clerk: You can come into the office and request one. There is a $1.50 charge per copy.
Me: Do I have to be a relative, are there any restrictions placed on obtaining this birth certificate, the person is deceased.
Clerk: No. All you need to do is come in and request it.
Me: I live 2 1/2 hours away, could you verify that the birth certificate is in fact available before I make the trip down there?
Clerk: You can request a copy by mail, would you like the mailing information?(she gave me instructions)
Me: I know I'm requesting by mail but is there any way you could tell me if you do have the record before I send in the request, it will save us both some time. (I was anxious to know and she already said I could have the record)
Clerk: Sure, what is the name?
Me: Mary Alice Kemery
Clerk: What is the year of birth
Me: 1925
Clerk: What is the month and day of birth?
Me: April 9

(please not that up until this moment the woman was what I would describe as helpful, courteous, calm, cool and collected... just doing her job as ususal)

About ten seconds after I gave her the month and the day..... she began to stutter.

Clerk: ahhh, uummmm, ahhhh... Who are you? ahhhh ahhhh, Are you related? What do you want this for?
Me: No I'm not related, you said at the beginning of this call that I didn't have to be related!
Clerk: Well, ahhhhh who are you? Why do you want the birth certificate?
Me: (I'm not sure if I told her my name) I told her that as a group project the people at the Official Linda Goodman site, which is owned by Linda Goodman Enterprises, were
rectifying a birth chart and needed only the time of birth. (maybe you'll disagree with my honesty...but I was caught off gaurd and I am NOT accustomed to being dishonest, so I did what I always do and told the truth!)

Clerk: ahhhh, ummmmm, ahhhhhh Please hold.
Me: okay

after about 2 minutes of being on hold the woman returned.

Clerk: I'm sorry, we do not have the record you've requested.
Me: What do you mean you don't have it. You just pulled it up?
Clerk: I'm sorry, we do not have that birth record, is there something else I could help you with?
Me: NO!

Now, this is the conversation as best I can recall it. You are free to draw your own conclusions just as I have.

If you want to believe I blew it... I'll accept that. If you want to believe they "blew me off" because I wanted a celebrity birth record..... ask yourself why I wasn't blown off the first second I spoke the name I was asking for? Why all the questions AFTER she found the actual record... the name on the record is the same as the one I gave her.... our adult and changed names are NOT a part of our birth record! If the woman didn't come across some kind of a note or request... I invite anyone's logical explanation for this woman's behavior. The important factors her are number one I gave the name FIRST and up front, I also asked FIRST if I had to be a relative to get this information.

I thought that maybe there was a request not to give it out, which they by law did NOT have to honor, the woman asked why I wanted it to decide what she should do. That is just my opinion.

Also responding to the question how do we know it was the birthtime information Linda was hiding...I thought about that too. Linda shared every aspect of her life and her family. She never kept that hidden. She shared all, from her parents, grandparents, children, to her place of birth and childhood friends... the only thing she ever sheilded was her time of birth. That is why I came to my conclusion.

Please feel free to ask any question regarding this matter. I'd be happy to answer. And also, this is not a case of me dropping the ball, this is a case of me quitting for very personal reasons. There is a big difference between the two. I'm truly sorry if I've let you down! I didn't mean to disappoint anyone, but I have to follow my heart.

Peace, LOve and LIght,
PurplePeace

Carlo,

Sorry, I forgot to address your request for the "digits". I've thought a lot about that and decided, if I give you those digits then I am still aiding a cause that I feel is wrong and I've chosen not to have a hand in.

You seem very convinced you can handle this task and succeed where you feel I have so miserably failed. It's not hard to find the number. If someone who makes the many mistakes I've made in my investigations can find it, I'm confident you'll have no trouble at all.

And you are right, my heart was VERY into this and I was VERY determined. I was one of only a few who believed in this with all of my heart. But you should also know that I felt in my heart that if it was meant to be known I'd find it. That belief is what guided me and helped me make every decission I've made regarding this matter. I took the results of my call as an answer to my own very personal questions regarding this whole issue.

I respect your personal opinion and I hope you can respect mine.

LOve and LIght,
PurplePeace

Karen,
I am dashing out to a meeting, but I always try to have a visit with you all daily, even if only briefly, to watch the progress of our discussion forums.

First of all, I understand the curiousity you all have regarding Linda's chart....and I must say, I do too.

During my priviledged time with Linda she emphasised to me how un-important age was and that we restricted ourselves mentally and physically by having birthdays and celebrating each birthday that we were a year older. She told me that I should always subtract a year and thereby the
de-conditioning begins and we can become timeless.
I never questioned Linda about her age, her closest friend and confidant once told me that Linda was not born in 1925 and shared a secret with me which will stay with me forever.

Carlo.....you may at some stage find a birth certificate for Linda.....I really don't know. I smiled when I saw Purple Peace post about taking the journey to collect Linda's birth certificate.......for I felt certain it was not to be and actually felt a little uncomfortable about it but I would not voice this opinion to you all, because you must do......what you must do.

I would ask you dear Knowflakes to consider......if it was so important to Linda that we do not have this information, why should we make it our mission. Should we not respect her wishes? I for one shall.

Knowflakes make your own decisions......

An abundance of blessings,
Crystal

Okay, I usually do not like to jump into the middle of heated debates, but for the sake of agreeing to disagree, I have decided to put myself "out on a limb".

I think that it is very important to consider what Gregory has already stated, and for each and everyone of us to use our intuition, logic and common sense to come to our own conclusions. As the unique individuals that we all are, we are not all going to arrive at the same verdict, and that is okay.

Carlo, as the one person who probably understands you the best, I ask you to stop and think this through before forging ahead. Take some quiet time to allow yours(elf) to provide the best answer. I shall too. I'm sure you know that I will back you up, should you feel that it is something you wish to pursue further. Please remember that this is a delicate situation and I would like to see a resolution that does not entail stepping on others' toes. Que sera, mi amore.

Purple Peace, thank you for graciously submitting all of your time and efforts in trying to secure this information. I respect your decision to withdraw from pursuing the matter and if you feel it in your heart, I will be the first one to say, I cannot argue with that.
You have made some very valid statements and I think that it is important to take those into consideration here. Again, I thank you.

As an individual that is extremely sensitive to negativity and the harmful vibrations it can cause, I request the following.
For the sake of consistency in keeping this site alive with positive flowing energy, I ask that we try to choose our responses with loving care. I will be the first to admit that this has affected my time spent here in the past. I would like to conclude by saying, can we all please, just agree to disagree? In a kind and loving manner?

With love and light,
Karen

Crystal,
I thank you for sharing with us your opinion on the matter...I think that it is important to consider each and everyone's views on this delicate situation.
I respect what you have shared here with us and I know that it will weigh heavily in my own quiet reflections.
Again, thank you for taking the time to share here with us.

love and light,
Karen

I originally read a 1:45 or 2:45 p.m. birth time for Linda Goodman on a newgroup over a year ago. I went back and re-examined Linda's chart and I do not feel either is correct.

I feel that Linda was born at approximately 6:22 a.m. This time yields a late Aries ascendent. First, Linda referred to herself as a double-Aries. This chart would place Linda's Sun and ascendent in Aries, giving the traditional definition of a double-Aries.

Second, I examined the date of Sally's disappearance: December 10, 1973. The aspects on that date must have been significant for Linda's chart. On that date, there was an exact Mars-Uranus opposition. With the 6:22 a.m. birth time, this opposition would have fallen exactly along Linda's 1st-7th house axis. I believe Sally was Linda's second child and, as such, would have been indicated by Linda's 7th house.

Third, Sun Signs was published in September of 1968. You would have had Saturn at Linda's ascendent and Jupiter in Virgo trine the MC in mid-Capricorn. It's been my experience that when the MC is not in the 10th house (and in this case, it's in the 9th), you need flowing aspects to the MC and a strong angular focus to have a commercially successful project. And of course, Sun Signs was a huge seller.

The Library Congress says Love Signs, another huge hit for Linda, was published circa 1978. Crystal said she thought it was in 1979. For argument's sake, let's say it was in the first few months of 1979. Saturn in mid-Virgo would have formed a trine to Linda's MC and Jupiter would have been angular, early in her 4th house.

When Star Signs was published in June of 1988, Uranus would have been in a trine to Linda's asc and there would have been flowing aspects from Mars to the MC during the middle three weeks of the month. Mars would have been appropriate here because Star Signs certainly was controversial.

Note the emphasis on the ascendent for the three books mentioned above. All have the Linda Goodman's possessive at the beginning of the title, highlighting Linda's person.

When Gooberz was published on October 28, 1989 (date based on a letter from Linda Goodman to her readers announcing the publication of Gooberz), Neptune at 10 Capricorn was only about 4 degrees from Linda's MC and Pluto at 14 Scorpio was closely sextile Linda's MC from the angular 7th house. By the way, this influence seems to fit Gooberz as the book is Plutonian fathoms deep.

Saturn's return to Linda's ascendent has brought two important events: the publication of Relationship Signs in June, 1998 (not sure of the date) and advent of this website in Linda's honor. On February 23, 1999, when this site officially began, Uranus (the internet!) was in a semi-sextile to Linda's MC.

I did the best I could with the dates. I tried, but couldn't find exact publication dates for Sun Signs, Love Signs, and Star Signs.

Thomas

Good luck, Carlo-----I kind of like solving mysteries.

Firesong

When I was very small, oh! extremely teeny tiny..somewhere between the age of three months, when I could not cry real tears and the age of three years, when I could - my mother became quite ill and I was delivered to a nearby town (by chevrolet they said)
to live with relatives until
.......................until my mother was better

I was told this many years later,and it sorely puzzled me for I thought I remembered someone saying that I had been born in the town where I was taken to visit-in that very same house

there was something about it all ..sort of half forgotten and strange
some remembered refrain..a pouring rain
and gazing through the steam fogged window of a train

"oh no! that couldnt be"
I was firmly told
"you were never on a train
till you were six years old"

Still I remember that train..and the rain
the frightening smoke and fire from the engine

....................and the pain

on someones face

(GOOBERZ)

Hi Purple Peace, I think what you say is right and I hope you never give up your honesty

Dear Marvelous Thread Contributors,

Thank you all for your engaging insights here today. I do not intend to comment adversely on anyone's input or opinion here, for this is a sensitive topic. Yet it is sensitive topics that often create the most heated discussions, and that is partly what I knew that this thread would become. Perhaps we can replace the word "heated" with "spirited"...that seems more appropriate in this case.

For the record, I do not think that Peace "failed miserably". And I still am not convinced that Linda left any particular instructions, even despite her conversation with Crystal with respect to the illusion of chronological time, which is well-documented in her writings as well.

When Peace presents "ask yourself why I wasn't blown off the first second I spoke the name I was asking for?", all I can say is that is too obvious...she didn't recognize it in the first second, let alone the first minute or two. And why would she? That was not Linda's fame name, and the folks in the office most likely had simply never heard of her birthname. And when they did begin to look, AFTER being told by Peace that it was for the purposes of 1) rectifying the birthchart, and that 2) it was being sought in connection with LG Enterprises, I believe that they felt it then became more complicated, perhaps even creating legal issues if they did or said the wrong thing...so they gave her the classic brush-off..."um, sorry ma'am, yes, uh-huh, yeah, mmm-bu-bye." Nothing more, nothing less, in my humble opinion.

I do not think that Peace did anything wrong, nor do I think that she didn't do something right. It was simply not the Right Time...yet there will be a Right Time, and I do prefer Stella's reasoning, that Linda perhaps was attempting to throw her fans off the scent, and keep a mystery, and we'll just see who can figure it out. I do not feel that she was such a loner or recluse that she sought to eliminate the ability of others to find her map. Not in the least.

So when the Time is Right, perhaps it will happen. I have lost momentum here, and I do not intend to go forward with an effort at securing a copy of her map at this time. That has been tried, unsuccessfully...not to say that Peace was unsuccessful, yet the events, personalities, and probably the heavens seemed to conspire to halt our collective efforts (Peace's efforts, really, I was just the captain of her cheerleading squad). I do not believe that Linda undertook to trick or confuse those who loved her...no doubt she knew that whomever would take up the task of obtaining this document would be one of her loyal followers, somebody who loved her beyond the scope of her works, someone who really wanted to understand her better, someone with no malice aforethought. Well, that someone is me, and someday I will be reporting to you that I do indeed possess a copy, and that I will move forward with a more thoughtful and thorough analysis. Then I will await the arrows of disbelief, and all the "how could you"s, and all the comments from detractors. Hopefully by then, those feelings will have fallen by the wayside, and I will be welcomed with cheers. Yet with or without support, and with or without adversity, I do intend to prevail. And if that is over Linda's wishes, well, we all already know that my efforts, somehow, will be blunted, deflected, or frozen in a state of inertia. Yet I will remain optimistic, which for myself and others, means believing that we will someday have our own copy of Linda's birthcart. For others, optimistic means that we will never possess this document. Perhaps the two thoughtforms shall meet somewhere in the field of dreams and love, and the synthesis will be beautiful anyway, as it is now. So, let's get back to the beauty that we have all helped to create on this fine site, and just realize that some topics are of such a sensitive nature that criticism may be mistaken for defensiveness, suggestions for orders, and good intentions for who knows what...

I do love you all, and I do apologize for any misunderstandings along the way.

Bright Blessings,

Carlo

Please, I ask you all on bended knee, this thread has now acheived a 6...I ask that we let it sit as a 6, at least for a little while...please...we all could use the break and the pleasant vibration, even just until this Full Moon effect wears away...