#61671 - 05/19/99 08:07 PM
Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
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Enthusiast
Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 288
Loc: Los Angeles,California,USA
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Hi Knowflakes, I wanted to share a couple of dreams that I had last night with you all, it's an interesting subject and one that has fascinated me for many years.....I have quite a few books on interpreting dreams and try to write mine down when I wake or talk about them to my partner, to figure their meanings out. OK, the first dream.......I imagined myself walking up a steep road and finding the walk rather hard, I couldn't understand why....I just kept walking and trying to reach this lovely little garden I could see from the bottom.......when I was half way up I realised my tummy was expanding....by the time I got to the garden, I could see I was carrying a child, I was pregnant.....that's all I remember of my dream, it was pretty intense and I felt really scared!! Anyone have any ideas.....I have some of my own, but I'd love to hear other peoples thoughts  The other dream placed me in a house made of wood......it was snowing outside, it was beautiful.....and as I watched out the window the snow started falling very heavily and so thick I could hardly see......then my home started to weigh down with the strength and weight of the snow.....I felt I had to get out and tried to get some of my personal possessions but the stairs gave way si I ran outside to see my whole family safe(thank God)but my home collapsed  So, that's a starter for you.......what does anyone make of these dreams??  I don't know about anyone else but I dream virtually ever single night......and they are always very vivid.....I can wake up crying and can't stop......angry and stay that way for at least 1/2 hour after .....afraid and can't close my eyes.....I often wonder if it is a Scorpio thing, because we have such an active imagination.......???  Anyway, let me know your thoughts  Love and Beautiful dreams, Kelly-Anne
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#61672 - 05/19/99 11:29 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Kelly-Anne]
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Journeyman
Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 59
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Kelly, Me too I dream and always have,could keep a screen-writer busy with ideas.LOL I'm a Scorp sooo maybe our minds are going at a faster rate.They say we try to solve problems from our days.Sub-concious protection and answer sort of thing.Linda seen other things for our slumber. First dream in my thoughts would be....you are really working toward a goal,it's been a tough time doing it and maybe taking you a little longer than you'd like.Progress made but thru much effort on your part!Whatever it is you are really wanting it enough to give a lot up for it!You feel that getting it will be worth it and you have a date in mind for this to happen. Perhaps a little nagging thought that you might have some difficulty to deal with even after you hit goal. You wont though cause you are a Scorp/elf
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#61673 - 05/20/99 12:36 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Y2sprite]
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Friend
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 179
Loc: Toronto, Ohio
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Hi Kelly  I pretty much agree with Sprite on the first dream. You are striving for a goal that became a little more difficult than you anticipated... but I feel that when you reach that goal (the garden)...and you WILL, it will be a new beginning for you... the pregnancy/ a new life! As for the second dream, my thoughts are you are feeling a little overwhelmed, like we all do from time to time, and maybe feeling that things are getting the best of you. Hence, the walls are closing in on you. Maybe it's linked to the first dream in that your goal is getting a little too difficult and it's getting the best of you. But with that Scorpio, of course YOU won't give in!! I also have very vivid dreams that seem too real for me sometimes and leave me feeling the same strong emotions long after I awaken. Sometimes my dreams tell me the future... within a day or two, which is VERY nerve-racking because they don't always happen, and I find myself worrying when I do have a night-mare! Sometimes for NO reason. I try very hard not to mind it... so it won't matter  And speaking of night-mares, Linda said the Unicorn IS the night-mare... and the Pegesus (deliberately spelled with an "e" instead of the "a" which robs the Pegesus of its powerful vibration) is its opposite and our protector in our dreams. I had a friend who has a beautiful Unicorn that she kept on her dresser. She was always having night-mares and never slept soundly. I spotted the night-mare and moved it to another room in her house, which she of course had a fit about She said the first few nights she didn't sleep at all, but after that the night-mares stopped and she began sleeping soundly again! I actually had a few of my own night-mares around the house which I promptly removed after becoming enlightened to its TRUE identity!! Once again... what would we do without dear Linda??? LOve and LIght, PurplePeace
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Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, you will achieve!
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#61674 - 05/20/99 02:00 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: PurplePeace]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 288
Loc: Los Angeles,California,USA
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Y2Sprite and PurplePeace, Thank you so much for your thoughts, I had an idea that my first dream was about a struggle to a distant goal.....but as I've always said anything that's worth having always has to be worked hard for  So that Scorpio moon will help me finish the task at hand and enjoy that beautiful garden I don't have a night-mare/unicorn in my bedroom or in the home for that matter, so that's not the reason .....although that's an interesting story about your friend.......I think it's just my brain doesn't switch off at bedtime.....it keeps spiraling......  I was told once that the dreams you can remember, usually being dreamt before you get up, are the sub-conscious area of the mind working through the previous days matter that has been stored there, it's processing it, permanently storing the information that is useful and discarding the rest by morning...... what a nice thought!! The dreams that come in the middle of the night are important, they are the sub-conscious trying to work through thought patterns that are really bothering you......things that need addressing, some could be very deep rooted issues, from the past as well as the present!! Anyway, that's what I was told, whether or not it's true is another matter.......I know you can take your dreams to be "literal" or "symbolic" aswell.......ummm such an intriguing subject  Love and Laughter, Kelly-Anne
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#61675 - 05/20/99 03:20 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Kelly-Anne]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dear Everyone!  This is a very interesting subject! I love the art of dream analysis, I'm not too sure if I'm very good at it but I'll give it a try. The steep road and the beautiful garden at the end could be a goal that you want to reach and it will be hard but well worth the effort. The fact that you got pregnant could mean you created something on the way (not necessarily a child). Wood is a natural material so your other dream may mean that you're in a natural procedure of some sort until you start getting clogged in by possibly disappointments or something similiar but you and your family will get through it okay.  I hope that helps. I too dream a lot and very vividly (perhaps it's a scorpio thing) but I used to have this reoccuring dream when I was very young. I dreamt that I was playing just outside our house when I'd hear a motor bike rearing up (you know that awful sound that a car makes when it's still but the accelerator is being pushed??) well anyway then I'd see the postman coming on his motor bike and I'd be scared out of my wits because I knew he wanted to do something horrible to me and though he wore a helmet that completely covered his face I always knew he had this wicked, evil smile on his face. And the horrible part was I couldn't move and I was locked into position and I couldn't scream either. I'd wake up in shock! I told some of my friends about it and they found it slightly humourous and absolutely ridiculous but then (by their own free will) I took them through a meditation and a replica of my dream and they were like a bunch of scared little puppies! Needless to say they didn't find it very funny at all after that.  Just thought I'd share that with you. Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61676 - 05/20/99 01:17 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Friend
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 179
Loc: Toronto, Ohio
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Seamistress, That IS an awful dream..... and to be unable to speak or move would be terrifying! You said it was recurring... how long did this go on? Not long I hope! I used to have recurring dreams of snakes crawling everywhere when I was a child! It lasted nearly two years.....ICK!! Kelly-Anne, This is a great thread I just don't even know where to start!! I have two planets and my South Node in Scorpio, the planets are involved in numerous Grand Trines.... wonder if vivid dreams are a Scorp thing! One thing I find very unusal about my dreams is the fact that lately I begin to dream almost immediatley...I mean within minutes of closing my eyes. I'm in a state in which I'm NOT sleeping, yet NOT awake but totally aware of BOTH worlds at the same time! I can hear everything that is going on around me and know where I am, at the same time I'm dreaming. It's almost like I'm having visions or in a trance. It's absolutely amazing to be consciously aware on both levels at the same time! I vividly recall nearly all of my dreams and feel as if I've just lived them! Sometimes when I'm in the "not asleep/ not awake" plane and also when I'm in a deep sleep, someone or a loud noise startles me, I feel like my whole body is literally shaking... like an earth quake. Then I look and see that nothing is actually shaking or moving, I am completely still, but still feel this very strong quivering for at least a minute after I wake up. It sometimes makes me feel like I just got off of a carnival ride and I get nauseous. I'm well aware that we travel astrally in our dreams. Could the cause of this shaking sensation be due to the fact that my Soul is being called back too abruptly and it shocks me? I've only been experiencing this over the past 6 months and my dreams have also become even more vivid during this time. Has anyone else ever had this experience?? It happens to me ALL the time and I really don't fully understand why! LOve and LIght, PurplePeace
_________________________
Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, you will achieve!
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#61677 - 05/20/99 01:42 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: PurplePeace]
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Administrator
Archangel
Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 6603
Loc: Cripple Creek, Colorado, USA
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Dear Kelly-Anne, I have to disagree with the other answers. I think both of these dreams are about babies and birthing. I think, from personal experience and discussions with friends, that by the time most women are in their mid-20s, if they haven't had a baby, their bodies develop a very real, biologically based, aching to create a child. It may not be all physical; the soul could be aching for the experience as well! But if the psycho-social, emotional and cultural "prerequisites" to childbearing aren't already in place (meaning you haven't found Mr. Right and established a committed relationship with strong enough financial and supportive moorings), this demand from your body/soul to have a baby -- NOW -- can create emotional and psychic distress. Thus, the conflict translates itself into dream imagery and provokes feelings of upset and fear. The first dream manifests in the most obvious of imagery. Walking uphill is tough -- something is unbalancing you or weighing you down or slowing you down (as a pregnancy would do, and not just physically). You are walking toward a garden (fertility, bringing forth of life, fruit of the womb). And then you say: "when I was half way up I realised my tummy was expanding....by the time I got to the garden, I could see I was carrying a child, I was pregnant.....that's all I remember of my dream, it was pretty intense and I felt really scared!!" Yeah, hon, that's natural! The second dream, which I understand came right after, is only slightly more obscure in its imagery and symbolism, but just barely so! Now you are inside a house made of wood. You have the perspective from inside a container composed of natural material -- a womb with a view! Guess what all that snow that's trying to come in might symbolize!!! Perhaps the male contribution that creates conception? Remember, you're in the womb, with an egg's-eye view, and that snow is about to come in! As you watch it, it is beautiful but has somewhat ominous potential. Then what happens? You say: "then my home started to weigh down with the strength and weight of the snow.....I felt I had to get out and tried to get some of my personal possessions but the stairs gave way so I ran outside to see my whole family safe(thank God)but my home collapsed." Sounds to me amazingly like what the birth experience must be like for a baby! The only home she's ever known is weighing down and pushing upon her with great strength! She has to get out but is worried, will she make it out with her personal "stuff" intact? Then the "stairs give way" -- she's out in the birth canal, no going back. She naturally joins in the effort to get herself out (which babies do at that point, turning their shoulders and then their heads to wiggle out). When she does get out, there is relief because her family, those mom and pop voices she's heard all her life, are still there, but there's also some feeling of loss. Alas, the wonderful home that had sustained her as she grew to this point has collapsed, and she will never re-enter it. That's my take, and of course I could be entirely wrong! Love and hugs, WriteOn (mother of two)
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I keep traveling around a bend -- there was no beginning, there is no end. It wasn't born and never dies. There are no edges, there is no size. -- George Harrison
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#61678 - 05/20/99 01:54 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: WriteOn]
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Journeyman
Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 59
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Dear PurplePeace, Is this loud noise a bang or pop type noise that startles you awake quickly...but really doesnt exist in earth reality?? My north node is Cancer,South in Capricorn sun in Scorpio...so I presume this increases my metaphysical interest so deeply(wait till Carlo sets me straight after reading that)& I spend a lot of my slumber in this astral state of being between the worlds.I solve my most difficult problems there...Really!!So if I'm having a bad time in earth matters it is there I go.I have a pop go off in this state that makes me jump out of my skin almost.It is scary and I have done this shaking at this time.My medical background tells me that it is the "flight/fright syndrome" described in neurological writings.Primitive reflexes that are in the spine area.It is one explanation!! sprite
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#61679 - 05/20/99 05:28 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Y2sprite]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 288
Loc: Los Angeles,California,USA
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Well, thank you all for your interpretations, isn't it fantastic how we all view things from different angles  I was a little dubious about being so open and honest about my dreams as they are very personal and sometimes very disturbing, but I'm really glad I did  WriteOn, Wow, I think your views were awesome.....I never would have looked at it like that, but I have to say that I've got to the stage in my life where the biological clock is ticking, I'm past 30 and haven't started a family, for many reasons......! I guess the archetype, married with 2.2 children, has been playing on my mind, consciously and sub-consciously. So, who knows those interpretations could well have been...RightOn  Seamistress, What a disturbing dream, I have had a number of dreams where I haven't been able to move or shout or I'm running but I'm not going anywhere, my feet are staying in one spot.....you feel so helpless and not in control The good news is it's only a dream.....not in the reality of life  I used to have a recurring dream as a child, I think all kids do.....anyway, it was about aliens...but they were far more human than alien!.....I could hear them talking, they were highly intelligent, almost like us but more hairy(werewolf looking!!!) Sorry, I know it sounds nuts, but a child's mind is a wonderous thing These aliens decided to take over the World and I was the only person left.....my whole dream was about avoiding them and hiding from them.......eventually I always escaped because I'd run away with them chasing me and FALL OFF THE EDGE OF THE EARTH (pre- Columbus time)....I would immediately wake up!!!! What do you think of that???Weird  Thanks to all of you......I think this would be a fabulous place to look at our dreams and try to decipher them for each other..... Hope you all agree  Love and Laughter, Kelly-Anne
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#61680 - 05/20/99 09:02 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Kelly-Anne]
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Friend
Registered: 04/07/99
Posts: 185
Loc: Ireland
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Hello all, PurplePeace,..I can't imagine either, what we would do without Linda's revelations. After reading about the Night-Mare in GOOBERZ,..I had a dream..I was standing in an open yard and could hear a car approaching at speed, I felt that there was great danger approaching,..I could sense evil. Panic and fear came over me,..I tried to run,..but my legs felt like they were made of concrete,...I could only barely crawl,..then the thought occured to me that this was the unicorns doings and immediately,..INSTANTLY the fear was completely gone! then I seemed to be in a different place and could see something white,..shining and glistening in the distance,..it was "The Winged Horse" PEGESUS!!! Normally I don't suffer from nightmares,..even before I discovered the deception of the Unicorn. When I was a child I would occasionaly get the "legs of lead" type of disturbing dream,...what a relief to wake up and realise none of it was True! "and the difference between Night Mare dreams of un-reality seeded by the subtle and sinister Unicorn with it's phallic symbol born of the deceptive uni-sex and the singing dreams of inspiration and true prophecy borne to the soul on the wings of Pegesus .........falsely spelled as Pegasus may always be detected quite simply, you see by the negative quality of the former and the joyful positive quality of the latter" then people should neither fear - nor repeat to others their 'bad dreams' ever for these are not actually or truly shadows of events to come? "only if they insist upon clinging to them concentrating upon them - and telling them to others then they will surely come true for,that which one fears - and believes whether good or evil,false or true will absolutely manifest in time" P 1007 GOOBERZ Kelly-Anne,..would that be an idea for the gift shop?...a Pegesus to counteract the nightmares.  PEGASUS 8531363 = 29 UNICORN 6513725 = 29 PEGESUS 8535363 = 33 I've got a dream myself that I sometimes wonder about, I dreamt this about six years ago and I have never been able to figure it out fully,..I dont know if it still holds relevance for me now,..but it still puzzles me,..in the dream,..it is very early in the morning (I feel), there is a lovely stillness in the air and it is the summertime,..I am standing on a roadway,..I think it is leading into a large estate,..there are massive granite entrance pillars,..as I enter I notice that there are apple trees growing on either side of the wide avenue,..which stretches into the distance,..there is a feeling of open spaces I notice that the apple trees have been pruned at sometime, as they have short branches,...they look quite old and there are large (very large) red apples on each tree,.. I would be very interested to know what anyone makes of that! as I said before,.. I feel it's time is past,..but I am still curious! Here's another dream I had,.that needs no explaining (I think!) as it was a precognitive one,..now it was quite a funny little dream,....I was in my car facing out of the entrance of the golf club in a local town,..ready to pull out onto the road when,...a car pulls up on the other side of the road,..now I am wondering what the drivers intentions are,as he makes no attempt to turn into the golf club and I am thinking will he move off again if I pull out,..and possibly cause an accident,..I am thinking to myself "where is that gillibin (pron GILL A BEEN) going" Anyway next morning I remember the dream and tell the family at breakfast,..expressing surprise that I had used such a word as gillibin, which is an old Irish word,..the origins of which I am unaware. Fast forward about six months and I am in the local town at an auction,..I am with a neighbouring farmer,..who helps me out sometimes. After the auction is over we head back to my car,..with all the traffic around I can find no place to turn,..so I drive on up the road and swing into the entrance of the golf club,..I do a half moon turn in the entrance and am ready to move out onto the road,..when a car pulls up on the other side,..I say (of course!) "where is that gillibin going?" my friend responds with "that gillibin is going to work in the golf club,...as a young girl gets out of the back of the car and crosses the road,..the car then moves off and I pull out onto the road my friend chuckles and says "you have the strangest sayings, gillibin" .........DEJA VU deja vu,....this has happened before! and I slowly remember the dream (the funny thing is Gillibin didn't seem strange for me to say then) I would probably never have remembered the dream if it hadn't been for my friend mentioning gillibin twice,..that was what triggered the memory,...I didn't notice him in the dream! So nothing of groundbreaking importance,..but it did make wonder about the nature of time. When I was in first year in post primary school,..at about the age of fourteen,..there was a religion class once or twice a week,...one day we were discussing the sensation "that I have said this or done this before) maybe it would be just a phrase or a sentence,..at least ninety percent of the class had experienced this,..myself included,..often thinking,.. I've said that before. Shortly afterwards I stopped noticing this,...how about you? Happy Dreams  Michael
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#61681 - 05/21/99 01:23 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Michael]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 288
Loc: Los Angeles,California,USA
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Michael, I think it would be a really good idea to have Pegesus in the gift shop, I will make the suggestion, on your behalf tomorrow!.....hhmmmmm! where would one find such a thing???  As to the dream about the apples......could this be your idea of the "Garden of Eden"  Just a thought, I'd like to hear more details actually!! I just got this image in my head of these grand pillars at the entrance, a bit like the pearl gates that we've been told are at the entrance to Heaven and apple trees, Adam and Eve......no idea if it's connected, but it's just the picture I got in my head immediately  Sounds like a great place anyway  Love and Laughter, Kelly-Anne
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#61683 - 05/21/99 03:17 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Kelly-Anne]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dear Purple Peace, It was awful at the time but I don't think much of it anymore. It was about six or more years ago. It came back once about three years ago or so. Okay I've got my dream analysis book and I'll just give you a little info on what it says. Snakes: "To dream of snakes, is a foreboding of evil in its various forms and stages." I've experienced those shaking moments as well. I'm not too sure what it means, perhaps it's the astral vibrating more slowly or something. Have you ever woken up and felt as if you were falling back? I do that a lot, a friend told me it was where the astral was quickly being pulled back into your body. Write On, You may be right!  Dear Kelly-Anne, That alien dream is quite strange. Perhaps it was something you weren't used to but it was so common (hence the likeness to human beings). I looked up my dream book for you and I couldn't really find anything that associated with the first one, I found a little about the second dream. Snow: "To see snow in you dreams, denotes that while you have no real misfortune, there will be the appearance of illness, and unsatisfactory enterprises.  "To find yourself in a snow storm, denotes sorry and disappointment in failure to enjoy some long-expected pleaure."  But you never know, I heard that dreaming of being pregnant means a happy event for finances! Good luck! Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61684 - 05/21/99 06:00 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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New friend
Registered: 05/21/99
Posts: 12
Loc: USA
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Hi everybody, This is such a cool thread as I have dreams every now and again and I'm not always sure what they mean... Two nights ago I dreamt about a snake and during the course of the dream the snake had bitten me three times, with Seamistress shedding a little light about snakes I'm left wondering why I was bitten three times. When I was younger I would wake not remembering very much but within a short period of time,Days,Weeks I am confronted with Dejavu and quickly relate to the dream I had previously.... Obviously I'm not the only one this happens to but is it just something that happens when our minds are young and open to these occurances. As I haven't had it happen for a while... just wondered if anyone had any thoughts about this...
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#61685 - 05/21/99 10:38 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Foggy]
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Friend
Registered: 04/07/99
Posts: 185
Loc: Ireland
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Kelly-Anne, I never thought of tasting the apples!,..they were pretty large and very red in colour,...hope they were not genetically modified ...and now with you mentioning the 'Garden of Eden' and that pair Adam and Eve,..I'm quite relieved that the thought never occured to me!  That is about all I can remember of the dream Kelly-Anne,..but it was probably the most vivid one I have ever had,...in vibrant colour,...the atmosphere was lovely,..lika a glorious Summers morning,..here in these Islands,...very early and a stillness pervading everything, thanks for your interpretation of my dream Kelly-Anne,..dream analysis is not really my forte,..all I know is I have never had a bad dream that has manifested in actuality I know what you mean by emotional dreams,..I woke up one night,..about a year ago,after a bad dream, with tears in my eyes,..but that type of dream rarely occurs to me,... There are valid messages in some types of dream I think,....I left school rather early,..and for several years after I would regularly dream that I was back in school on an occasional basis,..and I was happy to sit in on the classes with my friends as they progressed through the years. The message there was,..that I should have continued my education,...that is what I feel now anyway. So it is important to take note of our dreams, keeping a dream journal, in itself actually helps to increase recall because of the attention being given to the dreams. Now about my wealth or lack of it!...one time I might have given the "poor mouth story" but now thanks to Linda I know better,..she quotes Mike Todd in one of her books (Love Signs I think) "I have been broke,but I have never been poor,..being broke is temporary,..being poor is a state of mind" I have to remind myself of that often,..but it is well WORTH it. Love Michael
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#61686 - 05/21/99 10:51 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Michael]
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Friend
Registered: 04/07/99
Posts: 185
Loc: Ireland
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GREETINGS FOGGY  I'm sure Kelly-Anne will be here soon with one of her very warm welcomes for you,..if she hasn't already on another thread. I agree with you about the Deja-Vu,..I often noticed it when my mind was less cluttered (when I was Young) and more receptive,..the situation can always be re-versed though,...keeping a dream journal might be a good start. Looking forward to more of your posts. Love and Light Michael
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#61687 - 05/21/99 11:46 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Michael]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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GREETINGS!!! Dear Foggy A Most Warm Welcomes to this VERY SPECIAL PLACE!!! I think your dream is very interesting. I remember (from research done long ago) about snakes and Priestesses [in ancient Goddess-centered societies]. The priestesses would keep snakes 'around', b/c something in the venom would be taken during 'soothsaying rituals' and of course 3 is a significant number. So I really think you had a very "rich" dream... Hope to see ya soon!!! Love, Magic & Peace Profound ***essence***
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#61688 - 05/21/99 11:48 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Dearest Michael, 'Traces of Avalon' is what comes to my mind regarding your dream... Much Love essence
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#61689 - 05/22/99 12:44 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 288
Loc: Los Angeles,California,USA
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Hi Foggy! A very warm welcome to the site, I had better give you one now....after Michael said I would  Interesting subject you bring up, I have on many occasions had the "deja vu thing" happen to me, but I never remember having it in my dreams, I always just feel as though I've been there or seen someone before and put it down to a past life experience..... But having learnt alot more about astral travel I think now that it's somewhere I HAVE been to but in a DIFFERENT form!!!  The thing is, it's still happening to me........does that mean I'm still young.... at least at heart???  Now snakes in my book represent treachery, someone trying to do you harm, I would suggest that your dream was a warning and the fact that you were bitten three times says it's a very strong warning to be extra careful around your friends.....!! Perhaps, you are already aware of someone and your sub-conscious is telling you to beware!!!  Anyway, hope you enjoy the site and great to have you here!!!  Love and Laughter, Kelly-Anne
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#61690 - 05/22/99 01:42 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Kelly-Anne]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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 Welcome Foggy!  Three snakes bit you?? That must be harsh! I looked up my dream book, again, it now sits next to the computer  Snakes: "If they bite you, you will succumb to evil influences, and enemies will injure your business." Isn't it wonderful experiencing deja vu?!  Unfortunately that hasn't happened with me for a while, but I love the feeling, I can't describe it's just a WOW feeling! I dreamt of violins last night. It tells of harmony and peace and I will be honored and receive lavish gifts!  Oh goody!  Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61691 - 05/22/99 03:22 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Friend
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 179
Loc: Toronto, Ohio
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Hi Foggy and warm welcome from me too  I just looked up the snakes in my dream book and seamistress and I must have the same book. I've got the identical interpretation word for word kewl  I'm always having deja vu... does that mean I'm still young at heart too?? My son who's 8 going on 40, says he has it all the time and wanted to know what it is! I tried to explain but only managed to confuse him further.... now he thinks I'm "out there" and he still doesn't understand his deja vu! He rolled his eyes and said "Yea, right mom." Well.... I tried! Anyway Foggy.... you watch out for those enemies and evil influences ya hear!!! LOve and LIght, PurplePeace
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Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, you will achieve!
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#61692 - 05/22/99 10:23 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: PurplePeace]
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Archangel
Registered: 02/20/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: North Bend, WA USA
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This dream thread is fascinating. I've always been intrigued by decoding the messages of dreams -- although I haven't dreamt much lately because I don't have time to sleep these days!  There is one especially vivid dream I remember from years ago, that radically changed the way I look at reality. In the dream I was sitting on the edge of my bed, and there was a jump-rope lying on the floor in front of me. I stood up and walked over to the jump-rope, picked it up and started jumping with it ... but I also remained sitting on the bed watching myself jump rope! I had actually "split" into two separate people. It was the strangest sensation, my consciousness was actually in both "me's" at the same time and I could see through both sets of eyes. It's hard to describe, but I remember it so vividly and it wasn't as confusing as it sounds like ... it was just different. This was a lucid dream (I knew I was dreaming at the time), and after I woke up I never again had the same feeling that the body and mind are necessarily connected in the simple "one body, one mind" relationship that we usually take for granted. Anybody else ever have an experience like this, where you are literally in two different bodies at the same time? Any ideas what it means?
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L  OVE alone is eternal and unconquerable.
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#61693 - 05/22/99 11:09 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Gregory]
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Journeyman
Registered: 04/12/99
Posts: 58
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Hello everyone! May I provide a little more insight to your lovely thoughts on dreams? This is a great thread. Oh heavens! Snakes are never to be looked upon as something negative nor should the profound symbology and complexity of dream work be viewed as just a sign that one will receive gifts and so on. Perhaps to some minute degree this notion may come to pass but the true idea of dream interpretation is to uncover hidden aspects of ourselves in which we may not wish to see within ourselves. Also, dreams are ways in which we can grow and evolve by carefully studying the messages behind dream symbology and manifest from it new healthy and enlightening awareness of ourselves. They are an integral and vital part of understanding ourselves and the situations will place ourselves in. Thus, dreams provide spiritual guidance to clear away unneeded beliefs to make way for truer and richer meanings and beliefs to help us on our current sojourn. All dreams need to be applied within and not from without unless it is, without any doubt, a pre-cognitive/ESP type feeling within the dream that may pose or have a feeling of some urgency to it. Also if the dream indeed represents a situation, such as relationships, work, and so on, then we may see these dreams as helping us to create a better understanding of our lives as seeing in our outer world. In other words, when we look at dreams from within as being parts of ourselves needing attention and/or healing, we begin to see just how the workings of spitit flow through us even in sleep time and helps to provide us with answers to all our daily trials and tribulations we may encounter. Dreams are not always easy to interpret and much time and careful though must be given into them to fully comprehend its meaning to/for us. Sometimes dreams will progress a little at a time as we begin to consciously work through them each and every day. Each time, dreams reveal more and more about how we may overcome possibly our fears, doubts, sense of loneliness, anger, resentments, how to better our relationships, seeing foreign or alien parts of ourselves that we may not have been aware of before and the list is inexhaustable. For example: Any instrument can denote harmony if the music within your dream sounds harmonious. If the music is harsh or unharmonious, then it may represent the need to establish harmony within your life or situation during the time of the dream. Perhaps it may indicate the need to venture into nature to find peace to tranquile the mind and come into a more positive alignment with oneself and so on. Perhaps this can be seen as a gift to yourself. What within you or your life needs to be in harmony? Snakes are extremely vast in meaning that could never be completely stated here and would certainly depend on the context of the dream itself. However, other meanings of snakes denote great power indicating change, renewal and transformation. It represents a potent archetype of psychic energy, power, dynamism, and instinctual drive and the entire process of psychic and spiritual transformation. It may call upon the attention of the dreamer for the need to move to a new level of consciousness. Usually, the dreamer may fear it as he or she may fear change itself, but the snake must be seen as a positive sign and not a negative one. Even a snake bite in a dream can be positively interpreted as "bitten" by a new awareness. It is also the potent energy "kundalini" that is positioned at the base of the spine. Sometimes dreams can have a "pun" to it as well. Where did the snake bite you? Was it a poisoness snake? What color was it? What were you doing in the dream? Were you inside our outside? What was around you if anything? How did it end? These are just some of the things to look at in a dream and try your best to Intuitively discover their meanings. Being bit by a snake three times. The number three is representitive of sensitivety and expression, among other things. Since a snake bite can also mean a loss of energy, this could denote that you are loosing vital energy by not expressing your emotions and/or perhaps not having your feelings validated by another. It could also mean that someone may be stealing your energy and is hurting you in some way denoted by the area being bit. Although a poisonous snake bite has been known to mean danger, see if it is representitive to poisoning oneself by allow emotional or expressive toxins to be in the body/soul or is it from another that is being harmful to you and so on. All in all, it is an Intuitive process that needs much patience and time to eventually receive its full meaning. Darn...LoL. I became long-winded again...LoL. Well, I hope this helps. A Fellow ARIES
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#61694 - 05/22/99 01:03 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: WISESOUL-33]
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Journeyman
Registered: 04/12/99
Posts: 58
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Hello Gregory!!! Yep...LoL. I'm here!...LoL. I would have to say quite honestly that you may need to get some serious rest my dearest friend. Allow me to intuitively try and explain. Your in a bedroom--a place of rest including "bed"-- and you are sitting--reflecting, not using what you know, one remaining idle--and are positioned on the edge of your bed. On the "edge" perhaps meaning on the verge of calapse from exhaustion both mentally and perhaps physically. You see yourself splitting in two--the gaining of a different and/or outer perspective in the sense of being able to see yourself at a glance. Something like being Now able to see the forest for the trees so to speak. The Rope--one trying to tie things together, making a conecting link, line of escape or rescue--and you begin seeing yourself jumping--may mean to take a leap into something new, or perhaps jumping into too many things. Skiping may be saying, what are you skipping that needs attention? May also mean for you to do more playful things. Well play around with that for a while Greg and see what you can also come up with. Hope this sort of helps. Great dream Greg! Now get some rest...LoL. A Fellow ARIES
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#61695 - 05/22/99 01:49 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: WISESOUL-33]
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Archangel
Registered: 02/20/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: North Bend, WA USA
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WiseSoul, what's your take on the relationship of dream symbols to "waking" symbols? For example, in the Animal Totems thread we are talking about the meaning of encounters with "real" animals in the physical world -- but the meanings we extract from those encounters may not be very different from the interpretations we would get from dreaming about the same animals. Since I believe that we create our own reality quite literally, it has always seemed logical to me that the things that happen in our external experience ("reality") can be interpreted symbolically the same as the things that happen to us in our internal experience (dreams). What do you think? And thanks for the insights on my dream ... definitely food for thought.
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L  OVE alone is eternal and unconquerable.
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#61696 - 05/23/99 03:18 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Gregory]
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Journeyman
Registered: 04/12/99
Posts: 58
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Hello Gregory!! I most definitely agree that these symbols have the same meaning in both realms of consciousness. The difference I find though, between these two worlds, is that in dreams we are not bound by the structure or limitations imposed upon us by society or upbringing. These symbols are presented to us in a free-form style which is very exciting in that it is a true symbolic representation from our subconscious. Dreams provide a clear path to us for extremely entlightning self-discovery, if viewed in this way. Of course, in real time, this can be true as well depending on whether or not people choose to limit their perceptions of what is being shown to them. Another small difference is that in dreams there is no ego attachment and the subconscious being of raw form, can create great intensity. Well I believe I done my best at answering your question. Phew!...LoL. Hope this helps Greg!!! A Fellow ARIES
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#61698 - 05/22/99 07:14 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Gregory]
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Friend
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 179
Loc: Toronto, Ohio
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Hi Sprite, Sorry I didn't reply sooner... there are so many posts I missed yours. I'm not sure about the popping sound. Sometimes it's just noises around the house that startle me. Other times I'm not sure exactly what it is that yanks me out of that state. I've never tried to go there and solve problems. I'll have to give it a try. Usually I go there when I'm stressed and just need to relax, if I'm not feeling well, or my bad knee is acting up When I do come out of it, whatever was affecting me is gone. The dreams I have at those times don't really relate to what's bothering me though. Seamistress, I'm glad those dreams were not constant! That one's enough to cause you to have insomnia!!! I have felt the sensation of falling back along with the vibrating and attributed it to returning to my physical body suddenly. It's a very wyrrd feeling to say the least, and it's very difficult to accurately describe, don't you agree? Kelly-Anne.... this is a great thread.... write on  LOve and LIght, PurplePeace
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Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, you will achieve!
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#61699 - 05/22/99 10:13 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: PurplePeace]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dear Everyone, As I re-read these posts I came to realise something. Everyone has different opinions of your dreams and their meanings and metaphors. Of course these should all be taken into account as advice is very important and helpful. However something got me thinking. I remember reading in one of Linda's books that dreams are messages from your Higher S-elf trying to warn or simply tell you something. No one knows your Higher S-elf better than you as it is a part of you. And so listen to all these suggestions but remember your advice is the most important. Whatever snakes mean to you, try to work that through. You might be as brave as Wise Soul and do not fear snakes, however I have been brainwashed through society and am trying to overcome the theory that snakes are bad. I have been giving you little snipets of information from my book and my own little analyses but please listen to what you are saying to yourself. Sometimes they may not even mean anything or it could be your brain remembering back to something and turning it around. The only reason I dreamt of violins was because I have a concert coming up and I've been practising too much!  Purple Peace, mine's called "Ten Thousand Dreams Interpreted" is that it? I suppose great mind buy . . the same things!  Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61700 - 05/23/99 12:51 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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GREETINGS EVERYONE!!! WISESOUL Your thoughts on Dreams, are indeed WISE, thanks so much... SEAMISTRESS, Yours are too - I didn't know you "play" - All The Best on your upcoming concert, won't you tell us about it? Greg,
I can't resist [a sidenote to druid - (resist = sister)] putting my three cents in about your dream... To me, your dream seems very illustrative of how very aware you are of (as well as comfortable in) other realms. As in "Be As A Shaman Who Walks In Many Worlds". Your in bed - which is where we go to sleep, which is when we really 'wake up'- your astral gets up (full awareness of your 'physical') to jump rope, [a game played by children, but also something here in the mundane realm considered good for your health]. "Seeing through both sets of eyes", again I think it is about awareness, and seeing realities as they really are, as well as the 'illusions'. You said this dream was from many years ago and that after having this dream, you never looked at certain things the same way? Of course I only just met you recently, but knowing that you are a wise, enlightened, intelligent and happily married man, it 'seems' fitting... p.s. - Belated Thanks, to you & everyone else who told me about the 's Love - essence
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#61701 - 05/23/99 01:56 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Friend
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 179
Loc: Toronto, Ohio
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Seamistress, "10,000 Dreams Interpreted" by Gustavis Hindman Miller is the book I've got!!! But, I can't take credit for buying it. My 13 yr old son Devin, picked it out all by himself and gave it to me for Mother's Day! My sons do KNOW their mother  If anyone's interested, this book goes further in depth into dream interpretation than any other I've personally seen and I'm sure Seamistress will agree. LOve and LIght, PurplePeace
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Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, you will achieve!
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#61702 - 05/23/99 10:16 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: PurplePeace]
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Friend
Registered: 04/07/99
Posts: 185
Loc: Ireland
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Dear essence, I'd like to hear more about Avalon,..apart from the dream altogether,..I know very little about it apart from the King Arthur connection,..so dont just leave me hanging there............is it similar to Tir na nOg? Love Michael P.S to the young at heart,...you definately SOUND it,....and although I doubt that ye need them,....the amazing ALCHEMICAL CREAMS will help to keep the skin young too!
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#61703 - 05/24/99 01:17 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Michael]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Dearest Michael, Yes!!! Tir na nOg and King Arthur's Avalon. Have you ever read Mists of Avalon? More Layta... Much love - essence
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#61704 - 05/24/99 03:09 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dear Purple Peace, Yes that's the very same book!! How exciting.  Ours is quite old and has actually lost its covers but it's still the place I go to whenever I have a dream I can't explain. Miller seems to know his stuff, in the preface he goes into excessive length to explain dreams. Dear Essence, Thank you for your warm comments, I really don't know as much as some other more experienced people here but I'm willing to give it a go. Yes I've been playing the violin for years now, I love it! It really makes you more calm and tranquil, usually anyway. I've actually started just reading The Mists of Avalon! I have to finish it by end of June for my literature study. I've barely read one hundred pages so I don't know how I'll go! Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61706 - 05/24/99 10:22 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Foggy]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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GREETINGS Hi Seamistress, It is so nice to know a real Violinist!!! To me there is nothing as soothing as music. And I do believe music is a bridge, not only between realms, but especially between higher levels of consciousness ... You don't give yourself enough credit, your thoughts on listening to our Higher S-elves were most brilliant!!! How do you like Mists of Avalon? I loved it, I have the sequel Lady of Avalon, but it has been staring at me through the glass doors of my bookcase. Maybe you have 'inspired' me to finally pick it up . You're a student & a musician !!! Play On... Love - essence
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#61707 - 05/25/99 03:00 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dearest Essence, Thank you for your very kind words.  I'm glad to meet someone who enjoys music a lot. It's true music certainly does enlighten, on many levels. I'm enjoying Mists of Avalon a lot! It is sooooo fascinating and so well told. It's almost as if Marion was there herself . . perhaps she was  I cannot wait to read the sequel but I suppose that I had better finish this book first! I'm glad I inspired you  Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61708 - 05/26/99 12:34 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Member
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 37
Loc: Bismarck, ND USA
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Hi. I'm a Cancer, not a Scorpio, but I also have a somewhat vivid dreamlife. I have a recurring dream that is actually quite scarey. I don't really know what to make of it. My friend has suggested that it just means I have too much stress in my life. I will go on to describe the dream. Actually, I always know I am sleeping when it is happening and it is not really dreamlike at all. I can see nothing. I am surrounded by darkness. But I feel like I am being pulled out of my body, like my soul is being pulled out of my body and into some depth. I cannot describe it. In the dream I fear that if i let it pull me into this depth that I will die. While I am dreaming this, I become paralyzed and I cannot move. I cannot speak and in fact I cannot even breathe. I am sophocating. I have to struggle so hard to wake myself up from the dream because of all these conditions. Sometimes I have had the dreams while napping and had had family members around me. After successfully waking myself I asked them if they could see me moving around or if I was making noises, because I was trying so hard, while in the dream, to do these things to get their attention so that they would wake me and I wouldn't have to struggle so hard to do it myself. But they always tell me that I just laid there motionless and that they didn't hear a peep out of me. The scariest thing is that sometimes when I wake myself from these dreams, I still feel that pulling force. If I let myself fall asleep again, I will just fall right back into the "depth" and have to struggle to get out again. I don't know what to think of it. Sometimes I think it may be related to a past life experience. Ever since I was a small child I was afraid of deep water and going over bridges and such because I was afraid I would fall in the water and drown. Perhaps this is a reliving of a drowning experience, but I still don't understand it. And if that is so, why does it come and go. I can never predict when I am going to have this dream. Maybe someone else has had a similar experience they could share and explain. Thank You. Maggie
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#61709 - 05/26/99 02:25 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Maggie]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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GREETINGS Hi Seamistress, I think you're right about Marion Zimmer Bradley being there !!! Would'nt that be so cool... I just think it is the best 'take' on King Arthur. Talk to ya real soon, don't forget to let me know about your concert... Love - essence Hi Maggie,
I used to have that dream all the time, when I was a kid and a teenager. I don't recall any thoughts other than being scared of the physical sensations. My mother told me she had them too, when she was a kid. So I don't know if it is stress (tho I'm sure it could be), or SOMETHING ELSE. My husband still gets them tho, occasionally. Sorry this wasn't more helpful, at least you know of 3 other people who has had the same thing... Love - essence p.s. - Maybe we fight 'falling into other realms'???
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#61710 - 05/26/99 02:57 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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New friend
Registered: 03/23/99
Posts: 22
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC Canada
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Hi Maggie. I've had the same dream a few times as well. Mine felt like a vacuum was sucking the life out of me. It was a very physical sensation - like someone actually pulling your breath out of you. It is very frightening and I also felt like it was life threatening. Both times I had this dream I surrounded & protected myself with white light and right away my "spirit" rushed back into me. I would wake up feeling like I had just stopped someone from choking me. Maybe if you surround yourself in white light before you go to sleep every night it will be so automatic that you'll do it in your dream as well! Just a thought. Good luck, Susan
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#61711 - 05/27/99 01:56 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Susan]
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Member
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 37
Loc: Bismarck, ND USA
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Dear Susan and ESSENCE, Thank you so much for your responses. I am so glad I am not the only one. I will try to do the white light thing. Thanks again. Maggie
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#61712 - 05/27/99 08:09 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Maggie]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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#61713 - 05/27/99 07:47 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 288
Loc: Los Angeles,California,USA
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Maggie, I'm sorry to hear of your disturbing dreams, I would say that perhaps it's a warning that things are getting on top of you......if it's recurring start a diary of when these dreams happen, you may well find there is a pattern appearing.....when the dreams come you have an overload of work or alot of pressing things on your mind.  It says in my dream book that when dreaming of darkness you should try to remain under control afterwards, for trials in business and love will beset you.  In our dreams we are closer to our real self than in waking life. The hideous or pleasing incidents seen and heard about us in our dreams are all of our own making, they reflect the true state of our Soul and body, and we cannot flee from them unless we drive them out of our being by the use of good thoughts and deeds, by the power of the spirit within us  Now I would like to tell you all about something really strange that happened last night.....I was fast asleep when I was woken up by someone saying "WAKE UP"......"WAKE UP" I remember waking and feeling as though someone was leaning over me and talking right into my ear......now I went in and out of sleep and I know something was said to me.....but I can not remember....when I woke in the morning, I couldn't remember and I have asked for assistance in ordaining it to be remembered but I still can't.......  Maybe my sub-conscious has it stored for use at a later date....who knows!!! But it was very strange indeed. Just thought I'd share it with you all  Love and Laughter, Kelly-Anne
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#61714 - 05/28/99 02:06 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Kelly-Anne]
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Member
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 37
Loc: Bismarck, ND USA
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Hello. Thank you for your reply Kelly-Anne. Actually, to be honest, I hate those dream dictionaries and what they have to say about dreams. It's obvious that if you dream of darkness that it is not a very good sign. But I simply refuse to believe what they have to say. I was looking at one the other day and looking what it had to say about babies and being pregnant in your dream. It said that if an unwed woman had this dream it would mean scandal. These definitions are obviously outdated and just old fashion superstitions. Don't get me wrong. I believe dreams definitely have meaning, but that meaning has to be found within the individual. It's not anything you will find in a book of dreams. I did find it interesting, though, your comment that our dreams represent or reflect our inner state. (Don't think you worded it that way, but you know what I'm saying.) I do believe that that could be very true. Life has really gotten me bogged down these last three years and that is when these dreams began. I do not feel like I am the person I want to be. And I am working on it, but because of the way things are, progress is slow. I someday hope to find that inner peace I long for. Thanks again. Maggie
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#61715 - 05/28/99 02:33 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Maggie]
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Archangel
Registered: 04/23/99
Posts: 5718
Loc: Michigan Indian Reservation
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I'd like to share two dreams that I had. And I had no trouble at all in determining their meaning.....first I'll explain real life circumstances..... I like to play the piano and for years I had a lovely spinet....I had to move to a smaller place and a friend baby sat my piano for me....well she decided to move and I had no room for it, so it was sold, for far less than it was worth, much to my dismay...there were times when I'd long to sit and play and couldn't, and I would find it extremely frustrating...this happened so many times...the longing to sit and play, and not being able to....I really missed my piano...now to the dream.... I entered a big empty hall, bare of everything else except for this big grand piano which was in the center of the hall......I felt a certain joy, since it was an empty room and I could sit and play on this beautiful instrument, all by myself.....I was actually going to get the opportunity to play for the first time in years....I walked to the piano, sat down, put my hands on the keys and - nothing! I tried again - nothing! I knew I KNEW how to play, but every time I tried, my fingars did not know where to go....talk about frustration..... I know I don't even have to explain that dream.... Now the the second real life circumstance...some people whom I considered my friends, borrowed a considerable amount of money from me from me, and I was supposed to be paid the next week....the 'friends' didn't show up the next week, and ignored my phone calls, letters, and notes on their car...and finally disapeared...I was conned. (naive, I know..I do have neptune in the llth house opposite Saturn) Now to my dream.....I was watching TV, when I saw the friends "selling" condos....they were standing out in front of the condos which looked Grecian and Roman with colums, the landscape was beautiful..... waterfalls, fountains, willow trees, staturary, flowers galore.....and they were just down the street from me, so I thought, hey, there they are on live TV and I'm going to run down the street and confront them......well I got there, and what I found was like a stage or movie backdrop except not as good...they were scotch taping, and stapling the cardboard background, placing artifical flowers and trees in the front,and looking close, you could see it was pretty fragile and not likely to stand up long...I did confront them and they ran away from me....I couldn't catch them..... No explanation needed for that dream either... Peace and Love, Rainbow ------------------
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Let there be peace on earth
We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. - Mattie Stepanek
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#61716 - 05/28/99 03:22 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Rainbow]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dear Essence, Thank you for asking about my concert, It's coming up on Thursday next so I have a while to go but it will be a night to remember!  Dear Rainbow, These sound like very horrible incidences. I'm sorry you cannot play anymore - it's so sad to have to give up something you love so much. Could you possibly buy a smaller piano (I don't know how small a spinet is) or even a keyboard? I love hearing about other people's dreams. Keep 'em coming!  Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61717 - 05/28/99 11:15 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Archangel
Registered: 04/23/99
Posts: 5718
Loc: Michigan Indian Reservation
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Seamistress....................I have had a piano since last October, but I was without one for 10 years......it's not a spinet but an 88 keyboard electric piano, which sounds just beautiful.....and I have been playing it and certainly not taking it for granted...and it takes up hardly any space at all... And you play the violin....are you in a symphony orchestra? I love classical music....my kids were raised on the classics playing in the house all the time, and now I'm hearing that it is good for babies and children as they learn faster.... My favorite is Mozart, and I love Wagner's THE RIDE OF THE VALKYRIES,too....There are so many...that I couldn't name them all... And speaking of dreams.....have you, or anyone here, ever been in a 'twilight sleep,' not quite awake and not quite asleep while a beautiful symphony was playing on the stereo, and actually SAW and then BECAME A PART, of the music???? It is so hard to explain, but this has happened to me several times and it is a lovely experience.... Love and Peace, Virginia 
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Let there be peace on earth
We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. - Mattie Stepanek
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#61718 - 05/28/99 12:47 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Rainbow]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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GREETINGS!!! Dear Maggie MAGGIE is one of my all time favorite names - you are so lucky too, to have such a famous song named for you [Maggie May]!!! I really agree with you about dream interpretations. It's not that I hate those dream books, but I do think the most meaningful interpretations of our dreams do come from deep inside, so I don't really pay too much attention at all to those 'dictionaries'. May I just put my three cents in towards the inner peace you seek - I really do believe everything is a state of mind. I try to live my life within the framework of Image & Ordain and it really has never failed me. I am by nature very optimistic, but everybody can be so, if they just constantly and consistenly "re-mind" themselves that they are and before you know it, you ARE and presto - things 'naturally' fall into place. So - whenever I sense a 'bogging down' on the horizon, I LOOK UP!!! Hi Rainbow Are you Virginia as in 'Leave Virginia Alone'? What a pretty name. Thanks for sharing your very meaningful dreams with us. You are most fortunate to have such 'rich' dreams AND to remember them... Since my purple plates are under my mattress I almost never remember my dreams - isn't that wyrrd ... Hi Seamistress Less than a week to go - thursday nites are 'very special' so I know your concert will of course be very magical... Much Love essence p.s. - I 'see' and 'become a part of music' (all kinds of music) all the time. I don't play, but for me personally, music is not just always 'around me' but really is a very integral part of my own inner work... So PLAY ON !!!
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#61719 - 05/29/99 03:11 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Archangel
Registered: 04/23/99
Posts: 5718
Loc: Michigan Indian Reservation
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Ohmigosh! Essence.....my first thought was, WOW! this Pisces lady is REALLY psychic! She knows my real name is Virginia...........and then I looked at my previous post and realized I signed it that way........I just knew I would do that one day......I have already before this, but I usually catch it......yes, it's Virginia....As in "Leave Virginia Alone" Isn't it a transcendant experience to become part of the music???? Peace and LOve, Rainbow~ ------------------
_________________________
Let there be peace on earth
We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. - Mattie Stepanek
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#61720 - 05/28/99 04:14 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Rainbow]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Hi Rainbow You're such a doll!!! Yes, it is a very transcendent experience - and you know, just listening to music, does that to me. To be able to 'play', well, I really think that those who do, are sprinkled with extra fairy dust... Much Love essence
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#61721 - 05/28/99 04:16 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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#61722 - 06/15/99 10:59 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 06/15/99
Posts: 320
Loc: Apex, NC USA
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Hi you all!! I'm new and I just wanted to drop a note. I stumbled here (lead ?) because I have been a Linda lover for years. I too have read Mists of Avalon...about 5 times!! It's about my favorite book. Also the other Avalon stories which I recommend for anyone who has read Mists. I too have extremely vivid dreams, and lots of deja vu. My gram thinks being "psychic" runs in our family. Thanks for these wonderful bulletin boards!! ------------------ gali
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Every day is an adventure, every moment an opportunity.
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#61723 - 06/15/99 11:10 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Galadriel]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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GREETINGS GALADRIEL !!! A very WARM WELCOME to you Gali, at this VERY SPECIAL and PRECIOUS PLACE of LINDA LOVERS  You have such a Pretty Name. I LOVE Mists of Avalon, Too. Your Gram sounds like a wise woman ... MUCH LOVE essence
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#61724 - 06/16/99 03:16 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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 Welcome Galadriel  That's such a pretty name! I'm so glad you joined us here!! I'm actually in the middle of reading Mists of Avalon, actually more like a fifth there but I'm enjoying it  This is the first time I'm reading it so I am still discovering the beauty of the words entwined. Could you tell us about some of your dreams or deja vu? I'd love to hear them, especially since you're psychic  Actually I was going to put a post on here today as well. I had a very strange dream, well all right I can't remember it but there was a message that came with the dream. I hardly ever remember them but this one was so vivid. It said, 'A nation divided in itself cannot exist,' I have nooooo idea what that means. Any suggestions? Lots of Love Seamistress 
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#61725 - 06/16/99 03:40 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Afficionado
Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 416
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Sublime Seamistress, About the message in your dream. . . How odd! My God, how odd! You won't believe what I just am looking at!!! I have GOOSEBUMPS! In the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, Third Edition (I swear this to you, Seamistress). . . I'm so shook up I can't think straight. When I read the message in your dream, it reminded me, so I thought, of something that Abraham Lincoln said that is a very FAMOUS quote. Lincoln himself lifted it from the Bible, a saying of Jesus. Let me look that up, too. Be right back. Ok, I'm back. Three of the gospels quote this. Please see Matthew 12:25, or Mark 3:24, or Luke 11:17. I'm looking at the King James Version (KJV). I'll quote only Matthew, because the other 2 say the same. "And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand." Now for the ODD part. As I said, Abraham Lincoln took this and used it in a famous speech before the American Civil War to end slavery. His specific quote is,"A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure permanently, half slave and half free." GET READY FOR CHILLS! Look at the date today. Then look at the date of Lincoln's famous speech. Today is June 16 (at least it is here in the USA.) LINCOLN'S SPEECH IS DATED JUNE 16, 1858! How do you like them apples?!!! Strange, isn't it? Robert Chancellor
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#61726 - 06/16/99 04:34 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: RobertChancellor]
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Afficionado
Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 416
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Knowflakes, If any of you happen to stumble across Seamistress, would you please send her back to this posting? I would be truly grateful. I tried to catch her to show her the above. I must have come here immediately after she left her posting about her dream! MERCI MILLE FOIS. rc
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#61728 - 06/16/99 07:46 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: RobertChancellor]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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#61729 - 06/16/99 07:52 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Old hand
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 719
Loc: Chennai, India
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Dear Knowflakes ... I haven't been on this thread ... but I decided that I must come here and see what the knowflakes have to share ... meaningful dreams and interpretations ... that's what I see ... recalling your past and future lives ... simply amazing !  I had and have many dreams ... mostly depicting various incidents pertaining to the "persecution of Christians" era ... well, I was and am always a persecuted Christian there ... fleeing the persecutors ... Rainbow ... Virginia is such a pretty name ... One of my favourite schoolteacher's name is Viriginia and she was sweet to me ...  love druid
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* The spirit lives on...*
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#61730 - 06/17/99 12:14 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: druid33]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Dearest druid Sending LOVE your way ...  essence
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#61731 - 06/17/99 03:10 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dear Robert, This is absolutely amazing!!! I had no idea about any of this. Thank you sooooo much  Wow. Okay well um, what does it mean? I really do have chills now  And to think it happened exactly 141 years after he gave that speech!  I remembered another part of my dream that was linked to that, I was looking through a yearbook at all these photos in black and white of people and then I looked especially at this girl. She had long blonde hair and a sort of roundish face, I particularly remember her exact appearance. Maybe she's somehow linked to this speech! Thank you so much for this Robert, you've opened the door to a destination yet unknown to me  Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61732 - 06/17/99 11:54 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Afficionado
Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 416
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Sweet Seamistress, I'm glad I was able to be of some help! As for, "What does it all mean?" especially with the added information of the blonde girl in the black and white photograph in the Yearbook, I don't know. That's not much help, is it? I looked through what little I have on Abraham Lincoln, and couldn't find any blonde girl connection. Also, if she was connected with Lincoln or his speech, the photo probably would have been an old tin-type or daguerro-type, not black and white as we know it now. I looked to see if Lincoln had any daughters, but he had only 4 sons. Only 1 of the sons lived to adulthood. Several thoughts come to mind in how you might pursue this further. . . Meditate on what this "should" mean to you personally, especially if you feel that it was a message directed to you. Ask yours-Elf if it may be symbolic of something in your life, rather than literal. If none of that works, meditate and ask yours-Elf if this message could perhaps have been meant for someone else, and you are just sort of an "intermediary," so to speak, i.e. the message was sent to someone else "in care of" you. For example a real life message being addressed to: silly Leo c/o Seamistress Australia, etc. Another thing you might do is re-read Linda Goodman's "Star Signs" chapter called Ghosts, Gurus, and Avatars. In it she discusses clairaudience, clairvoyance, sounds from the past, etc. Also, in Linda's chapter on Lexigrams, she lexigrams the names Abraham Lincoln and President Abraham Lincoln. It appears Linda was very very fond of him. I debated with myself whether or not to share the following "personal" take I had on the message, before I knew about the blonde girl in the photo. My first thought was that it referred to the Yugoslavia/Kosovo mess going on right now. Once again, as in Lincoln's time, a nation is divided, North against South, and a nation "divided cannot stand." But, I'm sure you can see from that the danger of other people's interpretations of YOUR dream or YOUR message. In other words, it will probably mean something different to each person. That's why what it means to YOU is most important, unless you feel certain it was a message meant for someone else. Long-winded enough for you? Sorry! Many apologies. I do run on. Limitless Love and ABUNDANT ENLIGHTENMENT, Robert Chancellor
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#61734 - 06/18/99 02:29 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Galadriel]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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#61735 - 06/18/99 06:27 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 288
Loc: Los Angeles,California,USA
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Hi all!  As we all know there are two types of dreams.....literal and symbolic, I feel that this is a very personal interpretation, only you know what is going on in your life and if the dream is relevent to it or not! as Linda said where does the dream become reality and reality become a dream..... perhaps our dreams are reality and our reality is a dream!!!!!! now this is an interesting concept!! A couple of nights ago I watched the news on TV and heard that there had been an earthquake, well two actually, in downtown Los Angeles.....I didn't think much of it and continued making dinner, that night I had a rather graphic and frightening dream about a powerful earthquake that shook California!!! Now, could we say, it was a premonition of a major disaster...or was my sub-conscious reacting and dreaming about my fears and concerns!!!! I know this is simplifying the issue but it's a good demonstration of literal or symbolic......personally, I know it was a dream from a place of fear  (I don't like those ground shakers much ) Anyway, I shall stop waffling myself now, it's just such a complex and intriguing subject  Love and Laughter, Kelly-Anne p.s. Seamistress, what if you have just had a past life flashback in a dream......maybe you were around in Lincoln times and remember that day when he made his speech..........WOW!!!! what a thought!! 
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#61736 - 06/19/99 03:24 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Kelly-Anne]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dear Robert, Please do not apologise. You made no mistakes and your views are quite profound and enlightening. I too don't think that the b&w photograph of the girl is linked because it looked like it was a 60's photo. A friend of mine knows a meditation that will help unleash the meaning of this dream, soon we will get together and discover it.  Thank you Dear Gali, Isn't it strange? I looked up photographs in my book and it warns of deception. Somehow I don't think that is completely accurate but oh well Perhaps you are just nervous about your ten year reunion, I know I would be Either way all the best of luck for the upcoming reunion  Dear Kelly-Anne, That is a possibility except I don't feel very close toward the civil war. I like the movie Gone With The Wind but that's as close as I get to it  Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61737 - 06/22/99 03:06 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 288
Loc: Los Angeles,California,USA
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Seamistress, Such a shame that you don't seem to have any recollection of the Lincoln era......gosh! would I have some questions for you if you did.....!! But you have me intrigued.....this meditation for your dreams that your friend does, which gives you the answer to your dreams???? Please tell me more.....you have my full attention, I haven't heard of such a meditation and I'm sure I'm not the only one that would benefit from it  Maybe your friend would like to join us here, and tell us all about it........  You know what I'm like about dream interpretation!!!!!  Love and Laughter, Kelly-Anne
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#61738 - 06/22/99 03:29 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Kelly-Anne]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dear Kelly-Anne, I'm not too sure what this meditation is like but she said that she talks me through it and then comes to understand more about it. I've given her the address and she said she might one day come on so . . . Don't worry, I'll completely inform you of it soon hopefully  Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61739 - 06/22/99 06:18 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 06/15/99
Posts: 320
Loc: Apex, NC USA
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Hi all again...just wanted to share quickly a dream I had of Linda herself some years back. I was thinking of it the other day. At the time I had the dream I had gone to see one of my best friends in Kentucky and had picked up my paperback copy of Star Signs. A couple of nights later, if I recall, I dreamed of Linda. It was so amazing and vivid!! My friend and I had gone to see Linda at her house in Cripple Creek. She welcomed us most warmly and invited us on a tour of her beautiful house. The most interesting thing about this dream was that she took us into an aclove...or solarium... not really sure but remembered it being a rather small room compared to the rest of the house and rather well lit. Like sunlight, ya know ? I remember a beautiful rug ...the room was so comfortable. I felt like we could sit down and she could explain everything that I needed answered. Lots of little works of art to do with astrological symbols, ancient symbols and the like. The most startling thing to me now is the centerpiece of the room. Now up until two weeks ago I had never actually been able to sit down and look at Gooberz...my boyfriend is reading it so I haven't had a chance to really peruse it. But guess what, my friends ? That fascinating picture on the inside back cover was the piece in the room !! Now remember I had never seen it before or since...it must have been about 4 years ago I had this dream. It just really leaped out at me !! But that is where the dream ended. I had hoped to one day meet Linda ....especially after this dream happened so vividly to my life. I too cried to find out she had passed. I just wanted to share this gift with all of you. Blessings always, Gali
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Every day is an adventure, every moment an opportunity.
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#61740 - 06/22/99 10:07 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Galadriel]
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Friend
Registered: 04/07/99
Posts: 185
Loc: Ireland
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HI Galadriel, HELLO to YOU! That was an absolutely lovely dream,..I'm sure you treasure it always, and it is really amazing about the picture of Minerva that you saw in the dream,..I'll bet Linda had such a painting! Thanks for sharing that  Lots of Love Michael
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#61741 - 06/22/99 01:27 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Michael]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 1380
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Dear Gali DEEP Thanks for sharing Your VERY PRECIOUS Dream ! ! It really is QUITE Amazing !!! Much Love essence
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#61742 - 06/23/99 03:22 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: ESSENCE]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dear Gali, That is amazing!! Perhaps you were actually in her house  You never know  Well thank you for sharing that with us it's so beautiful  Get this. I dreamt last night that I was walking down my street with my violin in my hand and I knew I was walking towards the creek nearby. Along the way I could see that neighbours were having yard sales and selling antiques!!!  Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61743 - 06/23/99 06:52 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 06/15/99
Posts: 320
Loc: Apex, NC USA
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Hey Seamistress!! I don't know why but that sounds like a fun dream. Maybe it's the yard sales with antiques !! I just love to go yard sale-ing. happy day !! smiles, Gali
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Every day is an adventure, every moment an opportunity.
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#61744 - 06/24/99 04:42 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Galadriel]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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#61745 - 07/09/99 07:08 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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New friend
Registered: 07/05/99
Posts: 20
Loc: DUBAI U.A.E.
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09/07/99 Hie there Dreamers Wow! reading through right from the start of this Thread about Dreams makes me realize that a lot can be interpreted from our dreams and that just how different we fellow humans are. I'm not sure if any other Earthly beings other than man can dream? Anyway I learnt a lot reading about your dreams and its meanings. I too had 3 recurring dream in the first I've been bitten by a dog and I am fearful. The second one is funny as in it I'm loosing my teeth one at a time and I'm quite aghast! The third one has stopped now but when I was dating this certain gentleman I always dreamt that he was 2 timing me. Our relationship did break because this was one of the reason among others. Does any one have anything to say about the first 2 dreams? ? ? About Music in Dreams, I cannot recall but when I am in the Twilight state (Just when the alarm goes off) there is always a song playing in my mind which I feel is a residue of my dream.....I love Music too being a Libra I luv all beautiful things. Do we go back to our previous lives in our dreams? ? Do you'll have a feeling of falling down from your bed sometimes while your right in the middle of the bed when you open your eyes open? ? Well I must say this is a very vast and interesting topic and Thanks to Kelly-Anne for opening up this thread. Bye for now MAHRUKH
------------------ MAHRUKH
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MAHRUKH
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#61746 - 07/10/99 09:57 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Mahrukh]
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Afficionado
Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 416
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Sublime and Serendipitous SEAMISTRESS, Did you ever receive the meditation on how to better comprehend your dream? I know I'm still interested. I truly hope your friend was able to help. Even so, if nothing came of that, have you had the same dream, or a similar dream since you first posted it here? May I learn more Patient Peace, Robert Chancellor
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#61747 - 07/10/99 08:16 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: RobertChancellor]
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Afficionado
Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 469
Loc: Australia
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Dear Robert, No, I never remembered to ask about that meditation. I could have asked yesterday because I met that friend again and we had a Meditation sleepover. She read my tarot for me (it's amazing how accurate those cards can be!) and she guided us to a spirit guide through meditation and I met a guide there but I forgot to ask about the dream! We're having another night some time soon so I'll ask then. As to whether I had another dream related to it. I don't think I have. Lately I've been getting warnings of a friend deceiving me and the tarot reading last night just proved it!  I was told to be cautious so . . . I'll keep you posted on any updates on good ol' Abe  Lots of Love Seamistress
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#61748 - 07/20/99 07:03 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Seamistress]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 06/15/99
Posts: 320
Loc: Apex, NC USA
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Hi all !! I just wanted to tell ya that I downloaded those voiceastrology "thingies" (for lack of a better word) of Linda's the other day (Sagittarius and Aries, which Anthony is) and I'd never heard her voice before. Such a joy to me, I want to say thanks for that. But the funny thing was, her voice sounded like that in my dream too !! Kinda gives me chills. ~gali
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Every day is an adventure, every moment an opportunity.
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#61749 - 07/20/99 09:51 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Galadriel]
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Afficionado
Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 416
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Gleeful GALADRIEL, What "voice thingies" and where? How does one find them and download them? Robert Chancellor
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#61750 - 07/20/99 11:40 PM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: RobertChancellor]
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Archangel
Registered: 02/20/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: North Bend, WA USA
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Robert, if you go to the Sun Signs pages (from "Writings" on the top menu) there is a link on the page for each sign that downloads and plays a short excerpt of Linda speaking about that sign.
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L  OVE alone is eternal and unconquerable.
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#61751 - 07/21/99 12:10 AM
Re: Dreams.........while we 'sleep'!
[Re: Gregory]
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Afficionado
Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 416
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A thousand "thank yous" to the two Golden G's, GALADRIEL and GREGORY.  Odd. Her voice does sound so familiar. Robert Chancellor
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