This really makes me feel like a full fledged member. Wait until I tell my daughter that I started my own thread! It wont surprise my son-in-law. He told me last night that I'm becoming a computer nerd. He meant it affectionatly.

To the topic at hand, autism. There are as many degrees of autism as there are children who have it. Just like the rest of the world of children, they are all individuals. We can attest to that. My daughter has 3 children. Little Bear is the oldest, he's 12. The middle child, Kalie, is 10 going on 16 and only has a slight learning disability. Toni Bird is 7 and she is autistic also. They are as different as night and day. He is a Gemini and Toni is a Scorpio. Kalie is a Leo and rules the house as much as we will let her and a little more. They are quite a crew!!! We found out that Little Bear (Jeff) is autistic after Toni was born. My daughter and I have discussed the question of whether or not she would have had the third child if she had known about the autism. Came to the conclusion that she wasn't meant to know before that and we wouldn't trade Toni for anything. There isn't an awful lot you can do for this handicap. We have tried vitamin therapy, but it didn't seem to make any difference. A couple of doctors in the begining wanted to put Toni on Ritalin, but my daughter refused. I don't blame her. Like me, she prefers more natural remidies and calming her down with drugs was out of the question. Jeff was sweet and easy going from birth. Toni was the crankiest baby I've ever met. Unlike Jeff, she was terrified of strangers, strange places, needed to keep to a routine, and hated changes. She has come a long way in just the past three years. They both go to a regular school, but take special classes and Toni still requires special a teacher's aid to help her. We've been told that Toni will do better than Jeff because she was diagnosed earlier in life than Jeff. She has started talking this year and her speach is much better than his. He does talk a bit. More than his teachers expected him to. We did get some rather bad news about Jeff on this last visit to this team of doctors. They want my daughter to have the school stop putting so much pressure on him to learn to read and spell. We have been working very hard with him in this area and now we find out that although he can recognize the individual letters of the alphabet, he cannot put them together. they want the school to concentrate more along vocational lines of teaching. He is very good at art and building things with his hands. Only time will tell how well Toni will do. She is such a Scorpio! She is very smart and insists on teaching herS-elf. We have an old Apple computer with a lot of teaching programs. She wont allow any of us to help her, but she learned a lot. The trouble is communicating what she knows in a class room environment.

Linda Goodman has been a great help in this area, as in so many other areas of life. She talked about how some children were born with problems and how they are here to teach us. She hit the nail right on the head! The world could learn a lot about the power of lOve from them. We know of other children who come from disfunctional homes who don't do nearly as well as Jeff and Toni. Love brings out the best in them. That's true of every child, but children with problems like these, need lOve even more in order to grow and blossom.

Well, I've babbled on long enough for now. Besides, I'm anxious to post and see my new thread up there with all of the rest. Thanks to Crystal one more time for giving all of us such a great forum to grow on.

Love and Light for all!!!

Freebird

That was Magical Freebird Thank you so much for sharing with me, you Grand Children sound so beautiful, and yes, I'm with you and Linda, they are here to show us a thing or two I will write more on this later.

Love, moonglow

THANKYOU dear Freebird for sharing this family story with us ...the tv programme that I watched or partly watched... as I switched on half way through...was about a little autistic boy,7 or 8 years old, who was incredibly GIFTED...from a very young age around 2,I believe, he was able to create the most AMAZING drawings ...they were truely magnificent ...however his Mother could not understand why he appeared to be so GIFTED yet he wasn't talking and when she questioned this ...her doctor simply said that the child was a late starter...she was a teacher and she watched as the child seemed to grow in other ways but still he would not speak... she then challenged the doctors diagnosis and eventually they discovered that the child was austistic...she continued to persevere for a solution even though she was later told that he would never talk
...never be able to communicate ...She showed just what a Mother's LOVE and stickablity can do ....for the little chap now speaks and is improving all the time ...I understood that this Doctor Bruce Miller tried some new technique...
The FIRST words that the little chap said were "Why do I not speak?"..
I am so glad that your little ones are LOVED and CHERISHED Freebird
LOVE and BLESSINGS
Crystal.

Hi Freebird:

My son is HFA/Asperger's and I know what you mean. I have two other children who are not. He is truly special and has certain acute talents as well. I believe that he is here to teach me. We all have so much to learn from these kids. If we listen hard enough we will learn alot.

Love and Light to you and you family.

Laureli

Laureli

Truly amazing Freebird Crystal and Laureli I'm glad you started a new thread Freebird. I want to work with these children. I see it in my future and I really believe our society can learn from these gifted angels. When I go back home I will be learning about my brother's mental 'condition' Paranoid Schizophrenia and trying to help him cope hopefully easing him off the severe medication with the superivision of his carers and learn from him in the process, with the aim to help others. I sense there is so much more to these cases than meets our 'eye', but hopefully with our third eye wide-open we can make some 6th sense out of it. The first step is to make the decision to make a difference and I've already done that, so the next will follow...

Love, moonglow

Wait until we get Doctor Denny on the forums and in the Academy ..I hope to be meeting up with him in January to discuss and implement some courses here in Lindaland regarding the stydy of the IRIS of the eye...the "EYES" have it ...there is more in the "eyes" than we knOw...and the study of "RAYID" will help us to understand so much... Denny states that the eyes carry the map of the SOUL'S incarnations
So that should tell us a story or two.

LOVE and BLESSINGS
Crystal.

What a day this has been! I pulled one of my infamous stunts. We have had the Christmas tree up for weeks. It's an artificial one. I used to insist on a real tree. I love the smell of REAL pine. But, they are so messey and a fire hazard. So, I usually find some cedar or pine boughs and I hadn't done that yet. I went out and cut six (Venus) boughs of long needle pine, put it in a green vase and hung nine (Mars) red balls on them. It looked so pretty that everything around it had to be rearranged, added to etc. Spent all day working on the house. I guess you can say I tend to Spiral when I add one thing to a room. I remember one time that I bought a little red candy dish and didn't stop Spiral cleaning until the entire house was spit cleaned and rearranged. All to compliment a dish. I thought I was done and got on the computer when my son-in-law came home with all the gifts he had bought today. So many that I ran out of tape wrapping them for him. Today, he was happier than ever that I had come to live with them. He is such a good father. One thing he bought was a model car for Jeff that the two of them can put together. He really enjoys doing things with his children.

Laureli.....You got one up on me. I thought I knew so much about handicaps and all, but I have no idea of what HFA/ASPERGERS is. Do write and tell me all about it.

Moonglow.....I have a feeling that you would be very good with special children. You are very needed too. These children need lOving people to work with them. Toni had a teacher's aid last year that was so wonderful. She mimics people like a little tape recorder. Last year she would mimic such smiley, happy things. Not so this year with this new aid. She wags her finger and hollers "No, no, Toni" constantly. She just started grabbing herS-elf by the chin and hollering. The doctors have told my daughter to tell them to stop this, it is a physical intrusion and unnecessary. They seem determined to make her into their idea of a "normal" child and we are afraid they will do more harm than good.

Crystal......I like hearing what this woman did with her child. We have heard a few stories like this and it is encouraging. There is so much to be said for the Spirit of these children and what can be accomplished with lOve. It takes a lot of work too. My daughter had to work for a long time with Jeff in order to get him to make eye contact with people. Right now the doctors aren't very incouraging about his future, but, they don't know everything. For one thing, they don't take a child's Spirit into the prognosis. Jeff will find his own special way in life. And he gets a lot of help from his parents and me. There is more hope than they realize.

This Dr. Denny sounds very interesting. Can't wait to meet him and hear what he has to say about the eyes. I've had the experience of looking into some one's eyes for the first time and feeling like I K-NOW them. I see a lot of eyes that are clouded over like they don't want me to see beyond the surface. Hey, when I was going through all of that hell with my ex, I had a tendency to not make eye contact with people. Didn't want them to see the pain there. They are "Windows into the Soul."

I'm off to wander around for a little while in Linda Land before I get pulled away from the computer.

Thank you all, for gracing my first thread. Blessed Be and don't forget to EXPECT A MIRACLE!!!

Freebird

You're full of GLORIOUS surprises Crystal I can't believe that you have a marvellous Dr lined up for us as well How am I possibly going to fit all this in??? I think I'll have to give up Lexigramming , oh no, the druids just told me they won't let me . I'm sure I'll find a way! My Maternal Grand Mother's name is Iris, I so love her name

RAYID = DIARY Crystal , confirming for us that yes, the eyes do carry our own documented history! Wow!

Freebird Your Spirit is incredible! Thank you for sensing that about me and sharing it, it was very heartwarming to hear I got bad vibes from that aid advising negativity and trying to 'mold/mould' Toni like that

I can always tell when someone isn't happy with themselves as they don't make eye-contact readily and they have sadness in their eyes and can't smile properly. I try to smile at them with my eyes to help.

Love, moonglow

Hello,

Little did I know what the topic would be when I looked in here tonight. Autism was part of my life for many years. My son was misdiagnosed with autism at one point in his life. He never spoke after he was ten months old, and for many of his early years he did not track with his eyes, but he was on heavy medications, which prevented him from even opening his eyes fully. This was eventually overcome.

Because he lived for 32 years until we were in an auto accident, it is a very long, but I feel heartwarming story in many ways. So I won't get into all of it here and now. I will say the way the others are handling their own situations by loving their children and seeing what the children are giving to them and teaching them is not unique in my experience, but it is what so many others need to see. Those who think the children with autism or other developmental disabilities are a burden need to learn more and be open and ask questions of those of us who would be willing to answer them and share the many good parts of the experience.

In our family, it was like living with an angel. I have never known anyone with a better disposition, who could find joy in everything. He was walking at six months and I was told he had the development of a 2 year old, at that young age. He was even starting to say a few words.

He was not born with the problem, but it developed when he was seven months old, when he was vaccinated. He was eventually diagnosed as developmentally disabled with some autism.

If you keep this thread going for awhile, I will be able to tell you what I was able to accomplish with my son and also a very special success I had with a child when I was a counselor in an elementary school handling a caseload of 110 children with various disabilities. This was a young boy diagnosed with autism and next time I am here I will tell you how he learned to speak and the outcome.

But it is late now, I only wish I would have stopped by in these forums sooner. But I have been spending my time on the Medicine Wheel class. It would be wonderful if our teacher, Dr. Madeleine, could join in this thread, but she may not have the time right now.

Today, you have a lot more knowledge at your disposal and an abundance of valid alternative ways of helping your children.
The key will always be LOVE, with understanding and acceptance as well.

You are doing a great job - each and everyone of you!

Many Blessings to you all, with love,
Dolphin !!!

Freebird!

HFA-High Functioning Autism/Asperger's Syndrome is on the Autism Spectrum. My son is extremely verbal but sticks to one subject, has an exceptionally high IQ but lacks coordination, cannot read facial expressions all that well. Is either acutely sensitive or not sensitive enough to various stimuli. He suffers from obsessive compulsive behaviors that can cause problems. He doesn't have empathy but sympathy. He's not a highly emotional child. He is impulsive and tells it like it is, no matter if you want to hear it or not. He is not a team player and works best on his own. He is a lonely child due to his poor social skills which have to be learned over and over again. He can't use a knife and needs help holding a pencil. He was misdiagnosed with ADHD when he was 6 and did not respond to medication. He is doing well with an aide in the classroom and behavioral management plan. I hear the teen years are going to be a real challange.

Love and Light! Laureli

What a nice day I am having. Went to a dinner they give every year for the employees at the state Park where I have been working (seasonal) for 3 years. It was so nice to see everybody that I almost felt bad that I don't intend to go back next season. They are kind of jealous of me because I am layed off and drawing unemployment and I'm jealous of them because they are full time. See---the grass is greener on the other side of the fence again.

My dear, Moonglow, it isn't hard to spot a caring, intellegent person. We have been fortunate to meet a few in our area, but this is one thing that can't be taught in college. You either have it or you don't. I've noticed that the "caring" ones get as much as they give. When the woman who helped Toni last year found out that she wouldn't be with her this year, it broke her heart. She truly lOved our little Toni Bird. I sure hope you find a way to get in on the joy that comes from working with our special little angels.

Dolphin, I can hardly wait until you find time to post more on the subject. When I told my daughter about your post, she told me that she had heard about children getting autism from vaccinations. How frightening! She took some classes and at one time thought about working at the school, but couldn't handle the politics at this particular school. Besides, she has discovered her talent for writing and feels that she will be able to reach out and touch more people that way. Her poetry is so good, I can't even understand it. She has to explain it to me. A Poet, I am not! Surely we can keep this thread going long enough to get your view on the subject. I'm so glad you stumbled onto this one.

Guess I had best get off of here and get to work on a chart. Got an e-mail from a friend in California who is having problems. Hope I can help her. If nothing else, I do my best to cheer her up. We all need a little help in that area every now and then.

Wishing you all Light and Love!

Freebird

PS This is the second time somebody posted something to me and used the derivitive of my name. It just happened on this thread. Can you guess what it is?

My daughter came downstairs right after I posted and asked if she could read my thread. Laureli, you must have posted as I was writing. Sounds like synchronicity to me! Your son and Jeff have a lot of things in common. One of the differences Daughter pointed out to me is the fact that the doctors were able to get an IQ for your son. The doctors figure that both Toni and Jeff have high IQs, but are unable to test them. Jeff is probably more socable though. Even with his communication problems, he has friends. One little boy used to call him on the phone a lot and we would sit there amazed at how they carried on and enjoyed conversations when Jeff's speach is so hard to understand. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Jeff is Gemini. Even the doctors are surprised at how well he can communicate without normal speach. He mimes a lot for one thing.

My daughter and I were talking the other night about the teen years and changes they may make for Jeff. Right now we are more worried about Kalie and she only has a slight learning problem. My daughter says she is to much like me in that she is so trusting. I know that can get a person into a bit of trouble. Learned it the hard way, but can't change it. Don't even want to.

I mean it this time. I gotta run. Hope to hear more from you all.

Freebird

It's begining to look like I'm talking to myself again. No one has posted here for days but I figure most people have better things to do this time of year. I notice there hasn't been a lot of posting on any of the threads lately. I just wanted to post a Happy New Year to all Knowflakes before I leave for Chicago in the morning. I'll be gone for a week and maybe by the time I get back, every one else will be back on line too.

Hope you all have a safe and lOve filled New Year's Eve!!!

Freebird

Freebird I hope you have a GREAT time in Chicago...pack your thermals.. I am sure all your friends will be back posting on your return...I too have taken a little time off..with Greg's BLESSING we shall keep the fire burning until you come home safely.
HAPPY NEW YEAR

Dearest Freebird,

I would like to tell you a little of the story of the young boy that I worked with when I was an Elementary School Counselor. I worked in that position while I was finishing my pre-med degree in Behavioral Sciences and raising my own children.

I had a caseload of 110 children out of a school of 900 children. These children ranged from autistic, developmentally and/or physically disabled, Learning Handicapped, to emotionally disabled. They ran the gamut of virtually every kind and combination of developmental problems you could imagine, but it was a regular elementary school. A unique program that should have been continued, but it was experimental to provide counselling to elementary school children.

Out of all of these children there was a very special boy, although all were special to me. He was a large boy of seven in kindergarten. It was a combined double-sized classroom with only two teachers. I was asked to come in and observe this boy on a regular basis, since they did not know where to place him and where he would go the next year, as they had already held him back twice.

Observing him for some time over a period of weeks, I found that he did not speak, but could follow directions. He was alternately shy and friendly. From time to time I observed him suddenly get up and start running around the room, looking up, and looking apprehensive. After a few minutes he would calm down and a little disoriented, go back to his sat or group depending on what he was doing when the episode started.

I gave this boy some very difficult non-verbal tests, primarily spatial relationships, and he could do them so fast that I had no doubt of his intelligence level.

I then went to his home and discussed what he liked with his mother. She told me that he had been to the Kennedy Child Study Center, but they had not been able to help. He seemed to have autism of unknown origin.
She also told me he particularly liked to look at catalogs. So I brought some Sears catalogs from home to my counselling room. Each day I would see him for one hour and we would go through the catalogs. He liked to go to the same pages over and over again, point and laugh. What he became most animated about were the bathroom fixtures and the toilet in particular. So this is where I started with his speech. Since my own son could not speak, I was highly motivated to help this child.

Even though I was not trained in Speech therapy, I had access to the speech therapist at the school, but his job was to overcome speech impediments with the non-disabled.

So using the catalogs, I would say each word and he would have to try to say the word. Step by step it got to the point where he could tell me words for the pages he wanted to see. It started with toilet, bathroom, bathtub, sink, shower, and so on. I was able to get a Bell and Howell machine which used cards with recorded words and recording strips and pictures on them. The pre-recorded word is said and then he had to say the word afterwords and it would be recorded. This was very rewarding for him. I used these with him and also made up strips wih words he knew and recognized. We cut out pictures from the catalog and pasted them on. Before you know it he was acquiring quite a vocabulary. He was also more settled in the classroom.

This process took almost a year. We had a Parent, Teacher, Counselor assessment meeting and then I reported the results to the School District Psychologist. My report described the running around activity the way I described it here, although I recognized it as a Psychomotor siezure behavior very much like behavior my own son exhibited, which had been diagnosed when he was that age. However, due to protocol, I was not allowed to tell the Psychologist the diagnosis, but had to make sure she understood what I was describing. She then had to observe this herself in order to make recommendations. Fortunately, he was not put on heavy medication for this.

He continued to develop his speech and when I went back to the school a year later (I had moved away), I saw this young man eight years old now, in the office getting his lunch money. They had allowed him to skip first grade and he was in second grade. He kept staring at me, trying to remember me and then all of a sudden he broke out in a smile. That was a very happy day for me!

This is just one story of many, but the one with a child who had been diagnosed with autism. I don't know what astrological factors were involved as I knew very little about astrology then, in 1975.

I will try to come back to this thread again from time to time. I would really like to know myself, how much vaccinations of the earlier type may have cause autism, siezures, and possibly even crib deaths. I have talked with a lot of parents in an organization called DPT, Dissatisfied Parents Together. They can be found on the Internet now. I have heard there is an improved vaccine for the diptheria, pertussis, and tetanus. Unfortunately that does not help those vaccinated earlier.

The more we find out and share - the better the situation should be for all concerned.

Much love and many blessings to you and your family.

Dolphin2

My dear Dale ..I just LOVE yOur stOries..THANKYOU. ..and I would dearly like to knOw more about your thoughts and experiences with vaccines..
LOVE and BLESSINGS
Crystal.

Hi Dolphin2

What an inspiring post that was! Thanks so much for sharing it with us

LOve and LIght, moonglow

Hello again!

Well that story illustrated some of the really good experiences I have had. None of that was really about technical expertise, it was about spiritual guidance, as you can well imagine. It may also be, being in the right place at the right time, but you know who put me there. There are many stories about insight that relate to that position where I worked for only one year on a contract. I don't think I ever felt more success than there, because of the children. Yet, they could not renew my contract, because the program was funded for just one year. What a shame! I feel very strongly that this kind of program should be available everyhere. Today, in California and perhaps elsewhere they have a mentoring program for young children. It is all right as far as it goes, but I don't think it is enough.

As for the vaccinations and autism, I have been out of the loop for a long time. Iwas on the mailing list for the DPT organization until I moved in 1993 and I lost contact. I only recently found them on the Internet, because of a conversation I had with Crystal a few months ago. Then I got behind, because I started up a small business on the internet and it has been taking a lot of my time in addition to my class here, which I love.

It seems that it is time for me to connect up to the people at DPT again. When I first joined I spoke with a young woman whose baby son had died right after his vaccination. She was one of the officals of the organization. She told me this had happened to many parents. She also told me of a father who had three children he was raising, all of whom had autism and siezures. Yet, I have read (and I need to look this up) that a prominent doctor was quoted as saying that the parents just were looking for something to blame this on and it could not possibly be a vaccine. HE IS WRONG! I do not know why he perpetuates this myth. I still see him on televison saying this. Since I can not put my hands on the articles quoting him, I can not give you his name at this time.

But I can tell you that I had vaccine reations to diptheria at age five and smallpox at age ten. My children had severe reactions to the DPT shots when they were 7 months and two years, six months, in 1959. And my father had severe reactions to the immunizations he was given before going overseas in 1965.

I researched this and also met with Dr. Robert Schwitzgebel at the Claremont Colleges, when worked there. He was doing research on Autism at the time and he was very interested in my children's history. I did not keep in touch with him when I moved and I don't know what he is doing now, but I could find out. That was in 1970-71. He was young, so he may have continued his work.

I have also studied dr. Rimland's work and I had dinner with Dr. Jonas Salk in 1968. We had a private conversation about various difficulties with vaccines. He invited me to the Salk Institute in San Diego, CA in April 1968. This is one of those rare opportunities that I was unable to follow up on, even though I knew how important it was. I was going through a divorce (I later found out he was, also) and taking care of my children, looking for a job, and trying to learn to drive and get a car and get my son in a special school. I finally got to San Diego, where my sister lived, at Thanksgiving. I called the Institue the following day and talked to one of the Nobel Laureates who worked there, a very nice man, and he told me Dr. Salk was in France, but he would give him my message when he returned. It was there, in France that Dr. Salk met Francoise Gilot and the rest is history, as they got married. He was preoccupied and did not get back to me. But then so was I and I couldn't quie grasp the implications of his invitation. He was the most caring. electric person I have ever met. And to just touch on astrolgy for a moment, I later looked at a comparison of our horoscopes and it waas easy to see why there was such an energy between us. I would have loved to have worked with him. I later worked with someone who had worked with him and she said it was wonderful. He never received all of the recognition and awards that others did. But he was divinely guided and wrote books and lectured on man's interdependence with God and Christ! He worked ceaselessly for other cures for Cancer and Aids until his death.

The possibilities of a vaccine causing a reaction in children is several fold. The vaccine can be a bad batch, i.e. toxic. It has also been known to cause a meningitis. The vaccines in the past have been cultured on egg whites, so if a person or child is allergic or intolerant to egg whites, that can cause a severe reaction. Each person has a unique immune system and this is what is being assaulted by the vaccine. I am not sure I should get into immunology any further here, as it is complex. But I would imagine that many of you are aware of the variety of allergic reactions there are - from mild to siezures and in some cases, death, just as foods can cause the same. My own son and I, as well as my father, all of us very healthy at the time, developed severe food allergies and intolerances after being vaccinated.

At this point, I will rest the case, until I can get you some more updated information on this. I truly think they are trying to produce a new safer vaccine and this kind of reaction obviously does not happen to the majority of people, but they need to find out the common factors involed in those who have had reactions. Then perhaps they could advise whom would be at risk.

Lots of love,

Dolphin2

Hi all!

As far as vaccinations, I'm not so sure. I'm pretty sure that genetics/heredity play a major role in autism. There may be links to epilepsy in other family members as well as other autism/spectrum disorders.

My sons father, I believe carries the gene. He also has a mild form of PDD which had been misdiagnosed as schizophrenia.

We are still learning so much with so much more to learn. I've found that limiting my sons milk intake has helped some of his problems as well as Omega 3 and Cod Liver Oil. There is no cure but with a lot of love our kids will grow strong in body in spirit.

Love and Light Laureli

------------------
Every devil I meet is an angel in disguise...

THANKYOU Dale for your SHARING yOur experiences and KNOWLEDGE on this very interesting topic ..I had all my children vaccinated but I must say I always had this uncomfortable feeling when it was time to have it done...maybe because I am so sensitive and physically react to any and all vaccinations...I once had to have a smallpox vaccination for travelling abroad ..this was about twenty years ago...my arm swelled to twice it's size and I was ill for three weeks almost hospitalized...and I didn't make the trip... Strange because I am physically strOng and I do enJOY gOOd health ...THANKYOU GOD... so I do BELIEVE that there is every reason for concern and I can see how some little babies would find it difficult to survive such a reaction....and also how the medical profession would prefer not to acknowledge this.

LOVE and BLESSINGS
Crystal.

Thank you lovely Ladies!

I would like to address Laureli's posts. First I appreciate her definition of HFA.
Second, misdiagnoses are common. Every year brings new knowledge. Even when my son and daughter got their vaccinations, there had already been several documented cases of similar problems related to vaccines in 1957 and 1958, but they were not widely published, so other physicians were not aware of the potential problems.

Laureli, my son had an IQ of 200 at the age of six months, and he was walking. He was always able to walk until a few days before his death, when he was 32. His siezures were 20 at a time, five times a day, or a total of 100 per day, from the time of vaccination until ten years later. There was no genetic predisposition and he was originally diagnosed as having a convulsive disorder of idiopathic origin.

This is an extremely long story, which I will not delve into entirely now. Over time and with an unusual diet, we (the doctor and I) eliminated all of the more than 100 anti-convulsants and siezures. By the time he died, he had been almost entirely seizure free for eight years. Dietary factors were involved in triggering his siezures. If for any reason you want a lot more detail on this, I would be willing to e-mail you the information. I received honors on my thesis about Epilepsy and Migraines in my area of Neurology.

My daughter, whom I had been reluctant to have immunized when she was an infant, also reacted to the vaccine, at the same time as her brother. He was 7 months old and she was 2 years and six months old. Her reactions also showed severe brain malfunction at the time and she was hospitalized for a week, he ws not. She was screaming for days and could not eat or sleep;even after she was given enough seconal suppositories to knock out two adults. So she had to go in the hospital and be put on intravenous and sedated. She was also a high IQ. child. She already knew the alphabet, could read some, and do math in her head and give you an answer. But just as the vaccine affected my son's speech, it affected my daughter's. From then on until this day (she is 43) she believes she has said something to us when she hasn't. She frequently does not respond to questions and when we ask her again, she says she already answered that. Despite that she is a brilliant teacher and is in charge of 19 other teachers as their coordinator. Prior to this she was the Medical Quality Assurance Officer for a large Biomedical Corporation.

She has never had a brain scan, but my son did when he was hospitalized just before his death. If you haven't read other threads, he died as the result of an automobile accident that injured his brain stem and his pancreas. It was misdiagnosed and by the time he was in the hospital it was too late. Before he died they did a brain Catscan and determined that he had had a stroke a very long time before. This was consistent with both the mild spasticity and partial loss of vision he developed after he had diagnostic brain surgery when he was ten months old There were no Catscans then, so they first did a pneumoencephalogram and when they didn't see any brain problems, they perfornmed surgery by opening his skull and put air into the ventricals around the brain in order to get a better xray. That operation was called a ventriculogram and is quite barbaric. The air replaces part of the spinal fluid. In both procedures it is excruciatingly painful until the air has gone from the body, more than 24 hours later. He was only ten months old.

The point of this is, he was born a very healthy nine pound baby, grew well, ate well, walked and was starting to speak when he was vaccinated. What makes it ironic is that I had the children vaccinated, so they could be admitted to the University nursery school, where I would be going to get my medical degree. It was a requirement.

The only hereditary factors possible in this situation may have been a predisposition to a sensitivity to vaccines ,foods, etc. There is one other factor that may or may not be involved. I have never asked anyone about this. My children were both Rh Negative, as their father was.

As to autism, the topic of this thread, my son's inability to talk was clearly indicated by the strokes shown in the Catscan all of those years later. When he had speech therapy, he could follow all of the directions, but he could not speak. The only time I ever saw him cry, was when we were watching Children of a Lesser God with Marlee Matlin. We saw it twice and he sobbed each time she spoke of why she did not want to speak.

Laureli, I want you to know that all of your efforts will be rewarded in different ways, as you go along. Don't worry anymore about the challenges of when he becomes a teenager, all parents go through that. Although I have to tell you it was not a problem with my son and he matured early. A serious side note, your description of your son sounds exactly like a doctor friend of mine.Nobody in his family can figure him out. I just accept him as he is. Unconditional love goes a long way and makes it easier for everyone.
To all of you, whether mothers or grandmothers, appreciate all of the little things every day. They can make your heart sing! !!!

Love and Lots of Spiritual Light,

Dolphin2

Ho, you all! I was surprised to see so much on this little thread today. I'd been checking it, finding nothing, and now look at all the news. I had my daughter read the posts and we had quite a discussion about it. She tried to find a news letter she had just gotten from the Autism Research Institute that she had just received and couldn't. It gave stats on how the number of children with Autism has increased so much over the years. It sounds to me like the medical community and the schools will have no choice but to look for answers because of the growing number of children who need help. And, from what I can see, it's not just Autism, but other learning disabilities as well. We were inclined to believe it was genetic, but there could be a lot more to it. Like my daughter says, there are so many different ranges of Autism and perhaps different causes. With all of the advances in medicine, sometimes I feel like we are still in the "Dark Ages." There is just so much we still don't know about the brain and how it works. We have even wondered about polution. We lived by an oil refinery for about 5 years and the polution was terrible. Right after the EPA was first formed, me and two neighbors started a protest march. What an experience that was. I learned that the individual can have an efffect on the world around them. We got good news coverage and it wound up costing this oil company millions of dollars to clean up the polution. It's obvious that something in our society has changed since the early part of this century that has caused a lot of new problems. Let us hope that this Aquarian Age will help us find some badly needed answers. Even if we knew what caused this problem, it is to late for my grandchildren. Their best help comes from people like you, Dale, who care about them and try to find ways to help them. But, it sure would be nice to find a way to prevent this happening to more children. Right now, it seems to be one of those Mysteries the Indians spoke of. The kind that will solve themselves when the time is right. I sure hope it is soon.

Wishing you all Light and LOve.

Freebird

Freebird!

How fantastic that your neighbors and you did that protest. It is absolutely true that we each count and can make a difference. And I see how each of us approach these situations in a different way, because there is really no one right way to do things. We can sometimes have a wideranging effect by doing something quite small, like the way a ripple in a lake starts and ever widens.

In the Medicine Wheel class taught here, it is all about balance, nature, man, animals. and the universe and more that we don't see. I mention this, because you mentioned the Native Americans. Are you in that class, Freebird?

I am glad your daughter is so involved. It takes a lot of time and energy to follow-up on the information that is available. And that is difficult if one is working, volunteering and first and foremost taking care of the children and a husband, if there is one there.

Now that I am on the Internet, I should be able to do more, since I am essentially retired now. As soon as I get a computer, I will be able to do some letter writing and more follow-up. I am also very curious about the world wide incidence of autism and whether there are so many children with it in other countries. When you talk about the environment, it reminds me that I started into my field of interest originally, because I thought that diet had a profound effect on emotional behaviour. I still do, but that was when I was 17 years old, in 1953, and we didn't know about the pesticides and other pollutants.

Anyway, I am glad you came back to look at the thread and I am sorry it took me so long to write this down. First, I didn't want to upset people, with some of the details. But on the other hand I want you to know that you are not alone. If I could do it in the circumstances I found myself, with a husband who left after 13 years, during the only time I had not been employed since I was 15, with no car and no no income at all - then I truly believe any one can do it. I had no help from family, as my father was dying of cancer. I managed to get my son into a special school and my daughter took care of her brother after school, while I was still at work. But that was only for six years. Then I was really on my own, when she got married. But God was there for us all the time. As He is for all of us. We will eventually find out why all of these experiences occur. My daughter and I believe we learned a lot and my son was happy. We gave him all of the emotional support to make his life pleasant and we enjoyed him.

May God Bless all of you

Dolphin2

My dear Dale ..what an example of COURAGE yOu are to us all..it wrenches my HEART to think that yOu had to be so BRAVE...I KNOW this is how we learn the mOst ..how we learn COMPASSION for others ...but it is still tOugh...I bOw to yOur PERSEVERENCE and LOVE and to yOur very BEAUTIFUL SPIRIT.

LOVE and BLESSINGS
Crystal.

My father is a law professor but I know he has Aspergers and ADD. He has had terrible troubles because of it. I know I had Aspergers as a child but I grew out of it. Dad has not.
I wish there was not such a backlash against medication. Medication can at times do a great deal of good. I believe in certain circumstances it can peal away at a persons disability and help the core person come out and be more of what that person was meant to be. For example my best friend has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Off Prozac she is a mess of anxiety and superstition and misery and does not wish to interact much or go out and is too miserable to be friendly and loving. On medication the real Tara comes out in full as her wonderful humerous self and is friendly and a delight to be with. Ritalin helped me keep a job for the first time, although Ritalin is a drug which you must work very very hard to find the correct amount a person needs and not exceed it. Too much can mess you up. But just the right amount can really do wonders for a child or adult with ADD.

Well put!

My son has had a better year simply because the cause of his anxiety (other kids picking on him) has died down. He is in a new school and the children are so good, I have to pinch myself.

Things will not be as well when he enters Middle School (the zoo) and High School (Gasp) As you know these kids (because they don't pick up on social cues) are a target for bullying. I know he can't have an aide forever. With puberty banging on the door he has become much more aggressive and overly emotional. We are looking into (just looking for now) SSRI's. These are antidepressants/anti-anxiety drugs like: Prozac (which gets a bad rap), Zoloft, etc. I know parents who swear by this and parents who hate it.

Right now (with medical supervision) we are trying out St. Johns Wort but I've been warned this is not for everyday use. I've been reading about Kava Kava and Valerian root. Certain foods help trigger serotonin like bananas. I've found fish oil somewhat helpful. All these kids are so diffent from each other that they have to be looked at on an idividual basis. They all vary in degree of symptoms. I've put more blue in his room and this has been soothing to him.

Since this is a shadow syndrome many people just observe AS sufferers as oddballs. A little understanding will go a long way...

------------------
Every devil I meet is an angel in disguise...

Top of the evening to you all, my friends. This is one day that very nearly pased me by. Had my nose in a book all day. I haven't seen the movie, "The Green Mile" yet but found the book. Where does Stephen King get all of these story lines? It was another one I couldn't put down until the last page was read.

I think I can understand where you two are coming from, Gingerwoman and Laureli. I'm sure medication can help some people. Matter of fact, my son is on Prozac and another medication to control his seisures. He had encephalitis menigituis when he was a baby and all of the liquid on his brain killed some of the brain cells. He started having siesures during the last half of his senior year of school and his medications have kept them under control for years now. But, I've also seen them abused. I remember one doctor wanting to put Kalie on retalin and my daughter absolutely refused. She isn't autistic, just a slight learning disability and she's highly energetic. I've come across to many doctors who get carried away with the latest new drug. It has gotten to the point that parents need to learn all they can so they can make educated decisions instead of just relying on the doctor.

Dale, I, too, applaud you for those trying times. It must have been over whelming at times. It is hard enough for my daughter and she is fortunate enought to have a very good husband. They have had some rather serious problems with all of this. He really didn't want to accept the diagnosis for a long time. There were times that he could have been more supportive, but he is always there. He is very good with the children when he is home. He's a long distance truck driver, but tries to be home on weekends. The kids love him dearly.

No, I'm not taking the class about the Medicine Wheel. I do know about it though. I've read everything I could get my hands on for years about the Indians. There have been some very enlightening books that have come out on the subject in just the past few years. I feel very strongly that I was an Indian in more than one past life. I've been trying to remember them since I was a child. I get glimpses every now and then of an incarnation when I walked alone. I knew my Twin Soul, but we were very closly related and it was very forbidden. We couldn't help the strong feelings that went off like firecrackers when we met, but had no intention of acting on them. But, others got very upset about it and there was a lot of trouble over it. It got to the point that I couldn't stand the pain it was causing everyone, especially him, and I walked away. I just got my things together one night and slipped away, disappeared. I'm not clear on who I met, who it was that became my teacher, but I did become a healer and I never married. I wish I could remember more about healing. There have been rare times that I have been able to find this healing energy in my hands and help someone without them even realizing what I was doing. So far, my life has had to be centered on another path. Been pretty busy taking care of a lot of karma that I just "know" I need to get out of the way before I can go forward.

I do rattle on tonight. Think I'll get off of here and go see what I can find to feed the kids. Grandma is in charge tonight and Toni is so hungry she is chewing on my braid as I write. Perhaps she'd rather have some soup.

Wish you all LOve and Light.

Freebird

Hi Freebird and Everybody:

Morning Storm forwarded me an email I just had to share with you all.

MY RESIGNATION

I am hereby officially tendering my resignation as an adult. I have decided

I would like to accept the responsibilities of an 8 year-old again.

I want to go to McDonald's and think that it's a four star restaurant.

I want to sail sticks across a fresh mud puddle and make a sidewalk with rocks.

I want to think M&Ms are better than money because you can eat them.

I want to lie under a big oak tree and run a lemonade stand with my friends on a hot summer's day.

I want to return to a time when life was simple;

When all you knew were colors, multiplication tables, and nursery rhymes, but that didn't bother you, because you didn't know what you didn't know and you didn't care.

All you knew was to be happy because you were blissfully unaware of all the things that should make you worried or upset.

I want to think the world is fair. That everyone is honest and good. I want to believe that anything is possible. I want to be oblivious to the complexities of life and be overly excited by the little things again.

I want to live simple again. I don't want my day to consist of computer crashes, mountains of paperwork, depressing news, how to survive more days in the month than there is money in the bank, doctor bills, gossip, illness, and loss of loved ones.

I want to believe in the power of smiles, hugs, a kind word, truth, justice, peace, dreams, the imagination, mankind, and making angels in the snow.

So . . . here's my checkbook and my car-keys, my credit card bills and my 401K statements. I am officially resigning from adulthood.

And if you want to discuss this further, you'll have to catch me first, cause. . .............

"Tag! You're it." --Shawn McHenry

Laureli

Hello Everyone,

I just found a bulletin on m home page that headlined Autism and Vaccines. Wen I went to WebMD there was the story plus 841 articles listed with related stories as well. I won't make any comment on what I read, as I want to see how many of those articles I can read first. It does mention research being done in England and the DPT Association in the lead story.

This is for anyone who is interested in following up the prior discussions.

Many blessings to you all.

Love,

Dolphin2

Laureli,
Regarding the HFA-High Functioning Autism/Asperger's Syndrome in teens. My nephew has it, he lives in a very small town in southern IL. He wasn't diagnosed until he was 16, the only reason he was diagnosed then, was because of the tormenting he recieved from his classmates. He as a freshman, was ridiculed by his older classmates, they grouped around him, and he made a remark, about the kids in Ark, where he said he would have taken an arsenal, well he says all he wanted was to be left alone, the kids who already thought he was looney tunes, went to the principal with what he said. They removed him from school, sent him to a psyciatric unit for teens. Then and only then was he diagnosed. He had the typical add/adhd symptoms, which me knowing nothing about asperges, and knowing add/adhd I would have swore that he was. The shrinks all grouped it though, they said he was asperges with adhd. And yes the teen years are horrid, at 17, he is OBCESSED with "furbies" (like tony the tiger, bambie, etc.. they are cartoon characters that are morhed with huiman qualities.) He always has been, he has always seemed "retarded" in the fact he acts very much like a 7 or 8 year old child..however, he is brilliant, and has an artistic talent, that few can match.. But the teen years are tough, cause in spite of the maturity level, and talents, the depressions run very deep, and he is much stronger and more determined than most kids of his stature. His violent out bursts are almost uncontrollable.. no one ever knows when they will happen or for how long. They gave him 4 different meds,
1. for the adhd
1 for depression
1 for mood swings
1 was a time release that worked hand in hand with the anti-depressant and the adhd. while under meds, he was a bit more focased, and definitly less depressed. I do believe that meds are sometimes useful, when prescriped properly, they still work with the meds on a regualr basis to keep the levels right, since they change so.. I also believe god (although they seem to have their shortcomings) has given them gifts, special gifts, that many of us could accomplish even with loads of training, for a reason.. maybe it is so, we can all learn, that to look at life through the eyes of a child, is the way to our own innocence..

Freebird:

How sad they waited so long. I just keep pushing forward. I read up on everything. Deep down inside I knew it wasn't ADHD because at home he didn't act hyper. So I took out book after book. Took him off ritilin which I fought tooth and nail to begin with, and started traveling the Lybrynth of mondernized medicine. I saw nuerologist after neurologist who would tell me he had adhd but wouldn't spend more than 5 minutes with him and offer ritilin like it was candy. I found a book called, "When You Worry About Your Child,: Surpisingly, I found a description for something called, Asperger Syndrome. It fit like a glove and found there presently is not treatment for AS itself. My son is in 4th grade and won't be entering middle school for some time yet but I'm looking at all options. Looking back, his biological father suffered some but not all of the symptoms. It is very important that he goes to Social Skills classes and engages in special interests that will become a career for him. My son is obscessed with Pokemon but he also is obcsessed (excuse spelling) with marine life. We have an aquarium and I indulge this interest to the max.

Most of all he needs his families support, kids with AS are more likely to become suicidal if thier depression is not dealt with.

Best to you and your family.

Love, light and understanding.
Laureli

------------------
How long till my soul gets it right....

I just popped in for a quick look at what has been happening in Linda Land while I've been gone. I'm thinking of starting a new thread. I might find time to do it tomorrow. I've been off on another adventure for two weeks now and am left with lots to ponder. Can't think of a better place to do it than here. If I had the energy, I'd start it tonight. For now, I'm gona go pop a top, put my feet up and enjoy being HOME. Take my word for it, it's a good place to be.

Wishing you all LOve and Laughter

Freebird

Welcome Back Freebird!!!

We missed you and will be eagerly awaiting your new thread.

Love and Rainbows,

Dolphin2

Hi, everyone. I do not wish to step on any toes about the topics discussed in this thread. I will say this: A lot of behavior is learned and not a disease or mental disorder at all! Anyone who wishes to do so, please read the book, "The Myth of the ADD Child" by Dr. Thomas armstrong. Are we not here to seek truth and enlightenment and to break the chains of bondage? This book is very popular and can be ordered at any book store. Ritalin causes many, many side-effects that parents need to be aware of. Did your doctor tell you that? That is all I have to say about this topic. Blessed be. "Seek and ye shall find."

Deathnomore,

I am following you for good reason. As most you know by now, much of what I have learned has been through experience in this lifetime. I had the opportunity to put my son on Ritalin when he was about 2 years old. At that particular time, he was doing better off medication. That was the first time we tried it that way, so I declined the Ritalin offered by a Psychologist who owned the apartment house we were managing.

Many years later, when I was a counselor in the elementary school ( I am not sure I mentioned this before in this thread) I was observing a first grade boy of six. He was extremely quick in everything he did, but he got into trouble at home, because of his curiousity. So his parents had him put on Ritalin. In his case Ritalin slowed him down to a point that he could not focus and no longer could accomplish anything in school. He just sat there staring out the window or toward the back of the room. The teacher had placed him at the back so he wouldn't disturb the other children. this was no resolved before I left to go on to another position.

I now will make a comment that probably won't win me any friends, but I don't really think there is mental illess of any type. I do think theere are fads in Psychology and there are fads in medicine that the professionals get caught up in. I have completed more than 40 University units in Psychology and provided thousands of hours of counselling. I believe that people can become out of balance in different ways. In this case, I do not mean mentally unbalanced. It could be physiological, spiritual, etc. but it can be balanced with a little work and knowing what to ask and what to look for. I am writing this in the wrong forum perhaps, because I certainly understand what every parent and grandparent is going through with all of these labelled dis-eases. But there is so much more to be considered and it may even include something that has happened in a previous lifetime or earlier in this lifetime. In no case should a parent feel guilty or responsible just because they have not found the source of the problem yet. But please be open to considering everything that might influence this particular imbalance, which may or may not be wrong, just because it is different. This may be hard to understand right now, but in time you will understand most of what I am trying to explain.

With Love and Rainbows and Blessings,

Dolphin2

Oh my God, Dale, you hit it right on! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MENTAL ILLNESS OF ANY TYPE!!!!!! Behavior is learned! Children with so-called ADD are actually gifted in areas of creativity. And we are medicating those children and calling them disordered. Stop the insanity! People like Einstein should be encouraged, not doped up! And if you parents think Ritalin is harmless, you should read the warning label!!!!!!!!!

Although I do not agree with this being a "learned" behavior. There are right and wrong ways of dealing with it.

My son is not self-disciplined. This is a long hard road. He has a sister that doesn't need to be reminded to do anything.

ADD and AS are invisible syndromes. The kids appear to be fine. I can't tell you how many well meaning parents and friends thought that all my son needed was a good spanking. He would have never learned anything from that. These kids are wired differently and need to be taught with that in mind. My son does not understand metaphors and takes everything literally. There is only white and black, no grey in between. I don't believe in medication period but their is a neurological reason for the behavior.

You might want to check out Gingerwoman's threads... She has ADD and AS.

PS.. My toes are just fine.

Love and Light,
Laureli

No, Gingerwoman was labeled with ADD. She's an easily-distracted, creative person who does not like to be confined. She (like everyone with ADD) is explorative, a rule-breaker, and great leader; unfortunately, society does not like people they cannot control--hence medication! Add is a label for exceptional children and adults, and as long as we look at such people as "disordered," we are depriving them of the ability to see their full potential and depriving society of the near genius creativity that they could contribute to the betterment of our world. It's easy to blame a mysterious disorder than to take the time to find out what is causing the behavior in the first place. It takes the blame off parents, schools, and society. Some people need a crutch, and others throw their crutches down and make their mark in the world. Gingerwoman, you are SPECIAL! You are NOT disordered!! You are just more creatively inclined than average!!! Do not stifle this creativity, but soar to the highest heights!!!!!! Spirit is with you--always. Blessed be.

I've been popping in every now and then to read, but have been so upset about the way the conversation is going that I didn't know what to say. I am very upset with you, Deathnomore. How can you possibly know that all of these children with problems have uncaring, to busy for their children, type parents. This "learned behavior" idea you have is not only full of holes, it is dangerous. Dr. Benard Rimland started the Autistic Research Foundation because his wife was a good mother yet the doctors at the time were trying to tell her that her son didn't talk because she was a bad mother. Her husband knew better. We haven't come all that far from blaming all of the world's woes on the mother. There are pleanty of good, caring, loving, intellegent mothers out here who spend pleanty of time with their children and still have children with learning disabilities. They don't need someone telling them that they aren't doing enough. We have had to learn to accept our children just as they are and do what we can to help them. I will venture a guess that this is something that you have never had to experience for yourself. If you had, you would surely have more compassion for all of these people who are searching for answers.

There, I got my two cents in. I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. Blessed Be!!!

Freebird

Dear Freebird,

I understand you and I would like to add something that I have been thinking about. One of the strongest methods of healing for both children and parents is to believe in the child. Believe in their capabilities. Try things that you have been told they can't do. Give them opportunities when ever and wherever you find them. Help them to enjoy nature and animals, birds, etc. whenever possible, as it is very healing. Also, please believe in your own intuition as parents, grandparents, siblings, whatever. Some doctors, nurses, and teachers are also quite intuitive and will give you good guidance, but trust yourselves and listen to the inner voice. You and your children will grow and be happier for it, as you journey toward a greater enlightenment.

If it weren't for my otherwise abled son, I would not have grown as much as I have. He was a very special gift to me, my daughter, son-in-law,grandsons, nieces, & my friends.

With much love to all of you,

Dolphin2

Don't want anyone to think that we don't recognize our children's strengths....http://www.tonyattwood.com/paper4.htm

Yes our children are very special...and boosting their self esteem is one of the most important things we can do as a parent..

I guess my toes were stepped on.....and it hurt.

------------------
How long till my soul gets it right....

Right On, Dolphin 2!!! I couldn't agree more. Things have gotten so complicated in this day and age that parents have no choice but to learn what they can about all these different disorders and then go with their inner feelings. One doctor will tell us one thing about Autism and then another doctor will tell us something else. We choose who to listen to. We don't listen to the one who wanted to prescribe Ritalin. Nor do we take it to seriously when the doctor tells us that Jeff-man will never learn certain things. Jeff will let us know what he can handle. He has already surprised doctors at how well he does in some areas. He is loved and encouraged. We preferr that to medication. I also agree about nature being a great influence. We live out in the country. It would be much more convienent in the city, but this is where the kids belong. Me too. I came down here to heal after I left my abusive husband and I know I healed much faster here that I would any where else. The children and I have gotten into gardening and bird watching. We talk to the owls, feed the humming birds, listen to the wind, and wish upon the stars. When I get off of here, I need to go get the jeans I left hanging on the porch rail last night. We had a real good rain and the girls had a ball dancing in the puddles in the Fairy Garden.

Laureli, why do you ask, "How long til my soul gets it right?" I don't see where your soul has done any thing wrong. We are all here on this Earth Plane to learn a lot of things, but that certainly doesn't make any of us wrong. If you had all the answers, my dear, you wouldn't need to incarnate and we would miss you. Stick with us and we shall see how much we all can learn together.

This is a good day for a Miracle. I just k-now it. Blessed Be, you all.

Freebird

Thank you Freebird. You are most kind.
Laureli

I call them the way I see them, Laureli.

Freebird, I never said that the parents of ADD children were uncaring; nor did I say that learned behavior is directly learned from the parents. And I do know my stuff VERY WELL--so much so that I am giving a presentation on the subject next month. I also feel that I and one of my friends has convinced an entire classroom of teachers that we are right about ADD. How did we do it? By simply presenting the facts and giving the answers in detail. Before you begin defending my "right to believe whatever I want," which you and I both know is a close-minded statement implying that I do not know anything about the subject matter and about what I am speaking of (because it is inconsistent with your world-view or scema), I implore you to to read read: The Myth of the ADD Child by Dr. Thomas Armstrong. Then you may or may not change your mind, but at least we would be on the same page where we can begin our journey of exploration. I assure you that psychologists, psychiatrists, and even some school systems are changing their minds about ADD being real at all. Because it is legally a disability, schools can't deny treatment; however, many classroom teachers and their administration are beginning to provide the proper environment so that these children can flourish. The current teaching system is not conducive to learning as far as these special kids are concerned. (I say special, because most of these kids are borderline genius in many areas of creativity and hands-on learning.) The "symptoms" of ADD and ADHD appear in some settings only to disappear in others. Interesting. All I am saying is that it would be nice if you had the same information as I before you summarily dismiss my statements. Then, with that information, you could rebuttal. Peace.

Deathnomore, it would also be nice if you had the information and perspective of everyone else before you summarily dismissed THEIR statements, which you have done quite glibly. It is one thing to have a point of view that you believe in quite strongly -- it is quite another thing to bluntly TELL people how wrong they are, especially when these are people who have given their hearts and souls to trying to find the right approach to difficult problems with themselves and loved ones.

I have spoken to you before about this confrontive and argumentative style of presenting your ideas, and I ask you again once more ... please back off from the "I know best and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong" style of presentation. This is not an argumentative forum, it is a helpful and supportive one. By all means share your viewpoints and insights, but if you can't do that in a way that is less overbearing and intolerant I will have to ask you not to continue posting.

Thank you.

Thank you, Gregory. Once more, I wonder what we would do without you. Bless your pea-pickin' heart.

Freebird

Hello EveryONE,

I brought this up as a friend wanted to read about this subject, which was discussed so well by so many. I hope all the adults, parents and children who participated or were discussed in this thread are doing very well.

Love and Joy,
Dolphin2

Hi, Freebird, DaleLouise et all,

I've skimmed thought the thread a little, and see that it's quite an old one. I read a book about a girl with autism when I was a teenager called something like "for the love of Anne". Which is a true story of a child growing up and over coming her autism, though the loving care from her parents - if I can find it around and you've not read it I'll post the full details later (I think it was published in the 70's). It is truly beautiful. It's the type of book that has you audibly laughing in some places and crying lots in others. I also know of a "nursing" book that I was to find very helpful during my work.

I "nursed" adults with learning difficulties (some of whom had Autism, some not) for 10 years and learned so much form them. A few thoughts spring to mind that might be worth sharing.

Behavioural drug therapy: a friend of mine was managing a house for adults with behavioural problems, most of whom had some form of behavioural medication. Now I guess it might have been because of our "modern" training but both myself and my friend had a real belief that it was our job to "manage the behaviour" as opposed to giving out huge dosages of medication. We used to battle with the GP to reduce medication.

One particular lady had quite severe outbursts and during one of these, she said to my friend that she thought the pills were not doing her any good. She was successfully weaned of her medication. She's now living in supported accommodation in the community, infinitely more happy and independent. I have a friend who has also found that food alleges can exacerbate some of the problems as well.

While I was working in care, I had a real problem with some of the attitudes society, and some doctors have towards people with learning difficulties. So you can't communicate? This I not an indication of intelligence or not? I feel so strongly about this, as prior to Helen Keller people who were deaf were branded as unintelligent. But I feel that it's up to us to find ways to communicate with individuals. For deaf people it's a hearing aid etc, the more that can be done to find ways of communicating with people who are non verbal the less isolated they will be. The eyes truly are the widows to the soles and many of the people that I worked for may not have been able to speak because of bodies that didn't work, but my word could they communicate with their eyes alone.

Sorry that this is so long,

Much love

Lis

Well, hello there, tinkerbell! I was so surprised to see this thread come to the top and had to check it out. Don't worry about it being "so long." It is so nice to hear from some one who cares about special people and understands them so well. I couldn't agree more with what you had to say about the medications some doctors want to give them. My daughter has tried vitamin therapy, but forget the drugs. I have a son that was on Ritalin when he was younger and we saw first hand what it does and doesn't do. How wise you are to have learned from the people you worked with. We are constantly learning from our children. Even their teachers in school have learned a lot from them. They are such beautiful Souls and they touch a lot of hearts. You are right. You can see a lot in their eyes.

We have read a lot of books on autism, but I think we missed the one you spoke about. Per haps you can tell us more, and we might even see if we can find a copy of it ourselves.

Thank you for caring.

Freebird

Hi Freebird,

Thank you very much for your kind words. Because I workd with Aduls, many of them had spend much of their lives in long stay institutions. Doctors were fast to write out percription or indeed remove all teeth. But those days are hopefuly dwindeling. I've not worked in this area for about 5 years now, so I'm not familiar with the latest drugs. However I'd suspect that writing a perscription is still much easier than resolving behavioural issues. Althoguh on some occations drugs are warrented, however far less often than the medical statistics. Often the side effects cause more problems than the condition the drug is prescribed for.

It's also the first area of medicine that has to look to holistic approaches as a means of support. Aroma therapy, colour, play, drama and music have ben used for many years as a form of treatment. Also occationaly herbal remidies were used to overcome side effects from drugs, I've heard that garlic tables are useful to overcome drug induced dribbling etc.

The title of the book is For the love of Anne. I think but can not be sure as the book shop did not have a summary of the book in question that it is by a Claude Deleusse, published in the USA in 1976 by Haidback ISBN 0679504230.

You may still be able o look it up in the library. It's about Anne and how she grows up and concurs her autism. The funnier parts are about some of the various extended phases such as she ended up with a strange gait picking her feet way to high of the ground each step. It works out years later that she explains it's because tar had been put down on a path one day and it was sticky - so she walked funny for the next 10 years or so. It's little events from her childhood that touch your heart so much.

She was scared of a certain colour - and would avoid it at all costs, her parents would then do a confrontation therapy and paint the whole room whatever the colour was until she got over her fear.

Some of it was pretty ground breaking at the time I guess. Some of the challenging of her behaviur is a little bit distressing to read, but it is a wonderful story, although it's a long while since I read it and perhaps I've tinted spectiles on now.

Be warned it's an old book and the language might not be up to date. The other book I mentioned. Was co-authored by one of my nursing tutor. He's a very special angel teaching hundreds and thousands of young men and women to be good carers. He's very gentle and inspiring man, with very soothing qualities. This one is written in the 80's.

Title: Mental handicap - a handbook of care edited by Eamon Shanley
Publisher: Edinburgh Churchill Livingstone 1986
Subject (PRECIS): Mentally handicapped persons. Care
Subject (LCSH): Mentally handicapped Care and treatment

Very practical and easy to read I found it really helpful when I got stuck and needed some inspiration re creating new solutions to learning problems. Invariable one ends up asking oneself - what skills need to be present to achieve a particular activity and how can I teach this in a fun and creative way.

One of the chaps (a Scorpio with a very cheeky way about him) I worked with could do some much for himself but couldn't tie his shoe laces. After some observation it was clear that fine finger movements were lacking so I bought him a simple jigsaw puzzle. Mr Scorpio spend hours upon hours trying to do the puzzle (usually when no one was looking). More often than not it ended up begin showered across the lounge. One day there was a knock on my front door (I lived a few doors down in a flat I got with the job), it was Mr Scorpio man himself. With tears in his eyes - shouting that he's finished the puzzle -gave me a huge hug and kiss (lifted me about a foot of the ground) and went back home. This was a start towards the end goal of the shoe laces, however I don't know how mcuh further he got because I was moving jobs at the time.

Have you read the poem "heavens very special child" - a bit cheesy but touching?

Much love

Lis

Thank you, Lis, for the information about the books. I will have to write them down and see if I can find them. Right now, I am awful busy working on clearing a spot in the wooded area behind the house, for a swing set that my daughter ordered. Thank heaven, I have nearly a month before it gets here. That is one problem we have with my grand son. He gets obsessed with cartoons and video games so it is very difficult to get him out in the fresh air for some badly needed exercize.

I loved the story about Scorpio. My grand daughter with autism is a Scorpio and sure acts like one! She, too, gets so excited when she learns something for herself. I envy the hug you got from him. It's been an awful long time since I got one of those "lift me off my feet" kind of hugs. It had to be a very precious moment for you. You touched another human being in a very special way and deserved that HUG.

Walk in Sunshine

Freebird

Hi Freebird,

Thank you very much for your kind words, your grandchildren sound enchanting. I'm also a Scorp - and do tend to do thinks very much my Self. At lest you're virtually guaranteed of you granddaughter's determination to learn stuff.

The swing sounds fabulous. When I was little I could spend all day in a swing dreaming, I'm sure she'll love it when it arrives. Even though you'll have a job clearing the space for it. It sounds lovely place to live in.

I think every parent is worrying about how to ween the kids of computer game and into fresh air. From the children's perspective graphics are so creative, why bother with the real world. Good luck on you mission to get him into the great outdoors, perhaps a treasure hunt might help - so that you have the fun of having to find stuff like a computer game but have to do it out doors?

I'm up in Scotland later this month - so I might try and find the book at my mums and check the details for you.

Much love

Wonderful to hear about the little ones.

Lis