I have the Relationships book and I've been
trying to check mine and my husbands charts but I cannot figure out whose Saturn is in
charge of the karmic lessons for us. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the
trees but this is hard for me and if any of
you have the time or inclination to help me
it would be appreciated. I don't want to bother Dave right now so here's the info to
work with. I'm 12-19-54 asc probally Gemini and my husband is 08-27-52 asc Leo. I've read
about trine and sextile and square but alot
of our planets are 1 sign apart or 5 signs apart and I don't know what to do with those.
He is my best friend and we have literally been together since our first date. (He never left!) and we've been married almost 15 years. We've endured the death of a child and
an almost fatal bout with cancer and I'm the one of us who looks for reasons for everything. I'm sure there's lessons to learn
here, our daughter's death is what really started my search for meaning but sometimes
I'm not clear on what I'm supposed to be learning. This is really hard for me to "talk" about but I have never felt so close
to any group of people as I do all of you. I truly treasure all the threads and just knowing there are really good kind souls out there. After work I love to come to Lindaland instead of watching the nightly news and I feel alot better after spending time with you. Whew, that's the most I've ever typed. I welcome all input. Thanks

I too am a bit confused as to if Saturn truly is the teacher..If it IS then maybe its in a "silent" type of way..sometimes not shown to us until much later.
Im speaking from something personal..I felt I was the teacher at one point but our charts said HE was..this really confused me!
Sorry, I wish I could be of assistance to you!

Hi Peggy

Your post was very touching and written from the heart. I did a quick solar chart on both of you, but it won't be as accurate as one with time, place and date.
You both have some pretty amazing cross aspects. I can see why you question the Saturn aspects. My gosh, you each have Saturn conjunct each other's moon, although your Moon is further away from his Saturn than his Moon is from your Saturn. There isn't one Saturn in charge of the other, so to speak. The stronger pull may be your husband's due the the closer orb, but it definitely is a mutual karmic aspect that seems fairly balanced.
Since I didn't have birth times, these are only based on the date, not longitude and latitude of place of birth, nor time. Two important factors. But still, it was easy to see the cross aspects between the two of you and there are a lot of trines and sextiles and conjunctions.

Donna

Aries, Donna- thanks for replying. I always
thought I was the teacher for us but I'm
really not sure. I just love to read and
do research but he always wants me to tell
him what I found out. He was born in St. Ignatius Montana near Ronan at 3:23am. I was born in Mesa, Arizona "around supper time" that's as close an answer I can get from Mom and Dad till my birth certificate arrives.
It will probally be another 2 weeks. It wasn't love at first sight for us but it was
love at first kiss because there was an instant recognition for me when that happened. I'd kissed my fair share of frogs waiting on my prince so I knew something special was about to happen. Are there any soul mate-twin soul aspects? Which house or
aspect relates to health? Any info is appreciated.
Donna, are you a nurse?
Did you say in another post that you hadn't really made friends where you live now?That's hard to believe. You seem very nurturing.;
Anyway thanks for helping me find my karmic
lessons. I always try to learn my lessons
whether I like it or Not!

aspects of "karma" will show in the Saturn to their moon,sun, venus..Pluto to their sun, moon and venus also. trust me..this works!! the nodes and chiron apparently have karmic involvement but im not fully convinced...still researching this. You should have known when you looked into his eyes tho..before the kiss..the look in the eyes would have told you the kiss would be good..hehe When I have more time later..I will look at your charts..the times arent needed for the sun and venus against his saturn and pluto..but the time IS needed for the moon and rising signs.
Karmic lessons are NOT always fun to learn nor or karmic relationships easy to have..one example sorry to say is Nicole and OJ..they had karmic ties and from all accounts will be back to learn the lessons..unless its to late for them now.

Peggy

I'll get back to you when I get the actual charts done. You were born in Mesa?
I love Arizona. I used to live in Tucson, but Sedona is my favorite. I get to go to Phoenix every year to visit my brother. I'm in Penna., so its a long trip.
I wonder if you got me mixed up with Freebird, she wrote about not making any friends where she lives in her Magic thread.
I am a nurse, and I probably am a little maternal, I have my Sun in Cancer, so I do tend to nurture a bit.
Oh, where are you now, still in Az.?

Donna

Oh my gosh Aries, we just posted at almost the same time. I have to go to the grocery store and will be out for a while, so I won't be doing any charts for awhile. I am leaving it up to you. Hey, do you remember that song that says those very same words? Maybe not, its from a long time ago.
Donna

Aries, not wanting to stir up any debates, but I just had to throw this up since you mentioned OJ and Nicole. OJ DID NOT kill Nicole or Goldman. He DID NOT pay to have it done. He's innocent. I k-now it looks bad, but as always, the Truth will surface. Just re-member--you heard it from Deathnomore first! Peace to the wrongly accused.

------------------
"Bacteria cause disease like flies cause garbage." T. C. Fry

Hi you all!!! In my opinion, when Saturn plays a role, both involved, are given a chance to learn something. It certainly sounds that way in your charts, Peggy. Sounds to me like it hasn't done any harm to your relationship. You sound quite fond of the feller. Keep in mind that not all lessons have to be difficult. Some can even be fun.

It probably was poor, friendless me that you read about. I did mention that I don't have any friends in the area where I am living. Bless the e-mail, I do still keep in touch with friends. Some very special ones at that! I went through one other period of my life friendless. It lasted for 5 long years. At first I thought there was something wrong with me. After it was all over, I realized that I had spent those 5 years getting in touch with myS-elf and that was exactly what I needed at the time. Things tend to ebb and flow in my life and I think in a great many other people's lives. At least this time I have so many people here in Linda Land to keep me connected. I'm sure that when the time is right, I'll get back into the mainstream. Right now, I am happy where I am.

Wishing you all Sunshine and Roses

Freebird

I'll get my relationships book out
and look at the saturn and pluto
against the sun,moon,and venus and
see what I can learn. I think I did
confuse parts of Donna and Freebird
but I think I've got it straight now.
Freebird, I understand what you're saying
about having time to yourself to get in
touch with yourself. It IS time consuming
and sometimes we don't take the proper
amount of time to do that for ourselves.
It's admirable that you do.
Donna I was only born in Arizona I was
raised in the midwest. I went back when I
was about 18 and thought it was beautiful but
it didn't feel like "HOME". Where I was
raised didn't either but I've been in Tennessee for 25 years and it definately feels like home. I've never been to the east
coast except for Florida and I would like to
see Virginia, especially Virginia Beach probally because of Edgar Cayce. I would also
love to go to Cripple Creek sometime. AHH someday.
Deathnomore, would you tell us why you think O.J. is innocent. I did in the very beginning because I could not believe someone
would kill their childrens mother and leave her dead body for the children to find but when I watched the trial as I did almost daily to learn how the system really works, I
changed my mind. I think he may have been out
of his mind on drugs but I think he still did it. But I've got an open mind so will you explain what you think? Just curious but that seems true of most of us here, don't you think?

Greetings, everyONE,

First, I should say that I am rather ignorant about astrology. So please excuse me if I am way off the mark.

Anyway, I remember Edgar Cayce talking about Saturn being a planet that offers us the chance to wipe the slate clean (of karma) and start again. Saturn gives us a second chance. Examples were given concerning Cayce's two lives as John Bainbridge. The second Bainbridge incarnation came in under Saturn, offering him a chance to make up for the bad karma he accumulated during the first Bainbridge incarnation. Donna, do you know anything about this? If anyone does, you do. I should probably look it up instead of relying on the ole noggin. If I find it, I'll be back....

Stars and planets,
White Feather

I wont even rebut that one Death. Any woman whos ever been abused knows who did it.

Aries, you seem to have ignored my words and placed your own into my mouth! I NEVER said OJ was a great human being! He treated Nicole horribly--but he didn't kill her. Peace.

------------------
"Bacteria cause disease like flies cause garbage." T. C. Fry

Deathnomore, will you please tell us
why you think OJ is innocent? I'm always
willing to reconsider my opinions and I'd
very much like to know how you came to
yours. Actually theres about a dozen subjects
I'd like your opinion on but maybe I will
ask you later.
I know one thing,after watching that trial
on tv I'm suprised anyone ever gets convicted.
I just really felt that the verdict was
wrong and it made me sick to my stomach and
I actually cried which is not something I do easily.
I guess it was just another system that doesn't work like it's supposed to.
Or maybe it did work like it's supposed to-
I just don't know.

The system rarely works like it is supposed to. *sigh* But just say that it is a psychic hunch. I k-now he was innocent (of that crime only), and I k-now the Truth will come out (at which time OJ will do movies again). Don't get me wrong--I can't stand the guy! Peace.

------------------
"Maybe it's intuition. Some things you just don't question. Like in your eyes, I see my future in an instant..." I Knew I Loved You Before I Met You--by Savage Garden

Whitefeather-I still don't understand the
Saturn aspect. Where in your chart must it
fall to wipe out karma like you were saying?
I guess I'm just mostly trying to figure out
who's leading this dance. I always thought we
both were but in the Relationship book it
says when certain aspects are one way or the
other one is the teacher and one is the student. If you are one sign apart in some aspects for example, it's not conjunct-trine-sextile -what is it? Or say
5 signs away. Do you just disregard those?
I know this is supposed to be easy with the
book but I'm having a tough time. Donna, Aries, Rainbow, anyone who understands this if you have time to take a look I sure would
appreciate it.
Different subject but has anyone heard of Coral Castle? I just heard of it today and
it was very fascinating. They said this man
literally built this thing by himself, no
machinery and most of the stones are twice as
big as the ones in the Egyptian pyramids.Even
the scientists had to agree he found some way
to defy gravity. I love it when the scientists are stumped! I've been to Florida
several times but I'd never heard of it till today. Love that History Channel!

Hi Peggy,

Boy, I am pretty confused about it, too. I will try to find the book and get back to you.

White Feather

hi Peggy..Im not yet convinced about Saturn. I KNOW it has something to do with karma and past relationships..but other than that.. Im skeptical about it being the "teacher". I dont know YET, and this is based on my own personal experience with Saturn and cross-aspects with others charts.

Donna, Aries,Rainbow anyone who can do charts-I just got my birth certificate
today and I am a Gemini Ascendent. Time of birth 4:52pm in Mesa Arizona 12-19-54. He is
8-27-52 3:23am Ronan Montana. If there is
any definative info in your books about the
Saturn aspect between us or soul-mate connections I would like to know.
Donna-
I have Linda's Relationship book and Love Signs and Star Signs but could you recommend any other astrology books for beginners?
Anyone?
Thanks everyone!

Peggy

I will get a list together and get back to you.
Oh, and by the way, when I did your chart, I played around with the time and came up with 4:47, so I was 5 minutes off.

Donna

Hi Peggy

I have 2 very good books for beginners.
The first is The Only Way to Learn Astrology Volume 1 by Marion March and Joan McEvers. I like their style, they start out slow and explain things in orderly fashion, so as not to get one all confused.

The second one is a favorite of mine. It is a wonderful book and has a lot of Karmic aspects listed in the back of it. It is A Spiritual Approach to Astrology by Myrna Lofthus.

Now there is a third book that I just got because I looked through it and liked what I saw. The title threw me off and that is why I picked it up, I expected it to be awful, just from the title. I was peasantly surprised with the information and the work that went into it. It is written by an astrologer and is jam packed full of great tidbits and has a great reference list in the back. Ok, now that I said all that, I will tell you the name of the book, just don't be put off by it, like I was. It is called The Complete Idiot's Guide to Astrology. I can tell you, I was ready to write to them about that title until I read the intro by Noel Tyl. He is one of the "greats" in modern astrology.

Hope I helped a little.

Love,
Donna

Thank you Donna for the recommendations on the books. I laughed at the last one because
I almost bought "Astrology for Dummies" (I actually thought it was appropiate) but I wanted to ask you before I bought any books.
I think you're a very smart lady and it "tickles" me to think of you reading "Idiots
Guide to Astrology". I guess we can't take
ourselves to seriously, right? That was pretty amazing that you "guessed" my birth time within 5 minutes. I want to be able to do that. I WILL be able to do that SOON I hope. Thank you again!

hi Peggy! actually the astrology for dummies is a very good booK!!!

peggy..sorry I read that request to look at the charts a bit late..I'll take a look tonight tho moons in Aqua..good time for me to do it

Hi Peggy,

I found the book I thought I was referencing before, but I could not find it in the book. So now I am really confused. But I do remember more of what Cayce was talking about. He was actually talking about what planet we go to BETWEEN LIVES. I haven't a clue how this translates to our birth charts, or if it even does.

Let me say again that I am pretty ignorant about astrology. With that said, let me now shoot off at the mouth....

The teacher - student relationship is one of duality. That is not bad. We live in a dimension of duality. Saturn has something to teach, so we learn using duality. We help each other by taking on the teacher - student roles. And of course we switch roles continuously, often with the same person. Although this continuous role-switching can teach us a great deal, it also creates karma. I am thinking that perhaps two people who have traded the teacher-student role many many times, have decided to evolve together. I think Saturn may play a part in balancing that yin-yang/teacher-student energy so that the best lessons come to us as we need them. But I think it is also Saturn that wipes out that karma built up from such a relationship, so that the two entities have a clean slate to move on to the next step in their evolvement, a step that goes beyond the teacher-student relationship. If there is doubt as to who the teacher is and who the student is, perhaps it is time you are moving beyond that student-teacher relationship. You may still be learning together, but without the role-playing. Perhaps you are moving beyond duality into a oneness in which your partner learns BECAUSE you do, and you learn BECAUSE your partner does. Teaching and studenting are no longer necessary. For this to work a very close connection must exist between partners, one that is not fettered by layers of karma. When the two partners are crystal clear between each other (and the karma has been cleared away by Saturn--or our will), then they learn almost by osmosis. Your partner could be across town learning something, and, lo and behold, so are you! Partners at this stage are very psychic and telepathic with each other. The teacher-student relationship is a lot like sex. It is yin and yang through and through. And as anyone knows, sex can be a lot of fun. But there is a third element called ONEness, which, when thrown in with a supremely balanced yin and yang, creates a window through which we can evolve. The teacher-student relationship has been a very useful tool in our evolvement, but it will only get us up to a certain rung on the ladder. To procede onward we must engage new tools. And I guess Saturn helps us do that by helping us let go of the tools we have been using.

How's that for an astrological illiterate?

Donna? Does Saturn have anything to do with what I was saying? And are you familiar with any of the Edgar Cayce material on astrology? I've read all the other Cayce books, but the ones on astrology I've just skimmed. (It is like reading a book written in two foreign languages at once: the Edgar Cayce foreign language, and astrology--which is a foreign language to me.)

Peggy, are you done teaching yet? Are you done being taught yet? There are better and easier ways to learn. One way is to connect with ONEness. With a crystal clear connection to ONEness, we can access whatever we need to know, we can access the collective intelligence of ALL THAT IS. There is no longer any need to learn, because learning--though effective-- is a struggle. Accessing information is merely an opening up, and is not a struggle. In the meantime, we are all helping each other get to that point, and bless each of us for whatever we are doing to that end.

Chalk and erasers,
White Feather