Just one paragraph each (first paragraph) from each chapter, to introduce all of them. Hopefully, there will be something that helps, or at least gives thoughts on this part of a chart.

With Love,
MS AVC

[This message has been edited by MS AVC (edited 12-09-2000).]

Saturn in the First House

The closer Saturn is to the ASD, the more it suggests we may start off life with an uncomfortable self-image. An unchildlike uptightness is suggested. We have learned at a very tender age to hold back from taking spontaneous action due to basic insecurities about ourselves. Our instinct is to hesitate rather than self-assuredly mobilize our energies. Cautiousness and an air of reserve are often evident in our youth, reflecting an apparent degree of maturity in at least some of us. But because we naturally consider the consequences of our actions before initiating them, we readily keep most impulses in check. We at least are able to wait until we can calculate a better sense of timing before attempting to fulfill our urges. We seldom assertively or boldly move out into our environment. Patient restraint and a wait-and-see attitude are typical ways we face life.

Saturn in the Second House

A standard definition of Saturn in this house suggests that restrictions imposed on our earning and spending power exist until we have learned how to better handle finances in a mature and responsible manner. Life will pressure us to establish sound and sensible material values. People who amass great fortunes can have this position, especially those who've earned their riches instead of having simply gotten lucky. A certain shrewdness is impoied, as Saturn can calculate and carefully assess its options. What needs to be emphasized with this Saturn position is the proper and timely utilization of all personal resources. Until then, some of us with this placement are either going to feel insufficiently funded or may actually undergo monetary hardships.

Saturn in the Third House

While Mercury is the planet that best describes our mind and what intellectually interests us, the Third House describes how we learn to adapt our mental equipment to transient conditions we meet up against in our personal day-to-day world. With Saturn in the Third House, we communicate with our immediate environment with a measure of thoughtful reflection. Our mental processes operate less effectively when presented in a spontaneous, impulsive, unplanned manner. We are better served by learning to be orderly and discriminating in our thinking. We are to carefully observe our surroundings and selectively retain useful data.

Saturn in the Forth House

In this house of psychological roots and subjective anchoring, Saturn suggests we may feel a deep lack of inner security due to our early family experience. It may not have been easy for us to digest the general atmosphere within the home during our formative years. Later, we may grow making a concentrated effort to protect ourselves from whatever we regard as emotionally threatening. Saturn in the Fourth House can be emotionally threatening. Saurn in the Fourth House can be an easily internalized placement. We can become quite adept at constructing defense mechanisms and other psychological barriers that insulate us from experiencing vulnerability in close human interactions, leaving us lonely and cut off from others at a root level of our being.

Saturn in the Fifth House

At some point during our formative years, our sense of self-esteem may have been bruised. Somebody important to us (Daddy, or even Mommy playing Daddy?) may have sat on our spirit long enough to make us feel puny, unworthy, or painfully insignificant. One result of this is the formation of a fragile ego. We doubt our creative talents and /or question our right to openly and expressively display our "star power" to the world. Some of us who self-inhibit can suffer and inferiority complex that stirs much inner turmoil and frustration. A few of us who over-compensate are constantly attempting to prove ourselves superior to the rest of humanity. We work hard at risk-taking in those areas where we feel most competent, but do we really believe in our own glory?

Saturn in the Sixth House

Saturn in the Sixth House suggests we are to learn how to render dutiful service to others without feeling like l\slaves or work machines run amok. We want to be productive, but Saturn here means we do best when we learn to be discriminating, selective, and conscious of our daily routines. Are such careful, detailed actions always necessary? Are we tackling our taskes the hard way when efficient shortcuts would work better? To remain unconscious suggests we can concentrate too much time and effort on monotonous tasks that can drain us or leave us feeling like we'll never ever get to go to the ball, whether due to our lazy wicked stepsisters or otherwise. This position implies for us the danger of playing "doormat" and "dishrag," two roles unworthy of us and our above average organizational talents. Work is always serious business and something we need to structure with great thoughtfulness and care, but we are not here to straighten out any and every mess others try to toss our way. We have to know what is really our job and what is someone else's job.

Saturn in the Seventh House

Saturn in this house of peer partnerships means we tend to be insecure about our ability to relate to others on an equal footing. It's no wonder that the prospect of marriage is given much deliberate, careful attention. We're afraid to suffer the consequences of not choosing the right person, though this is not always a conscious fear. We take partnership very seriously and are intolerant of any failures or disappointments in this area. We want our primary relationships to bring us a lasting sense of security, which can be more meaningful to us than something as intangible as mere "happiness." We want something solid and self-evident that we can count on---but there are often obstacles in the path. First of all, many of us are not certain that we will ever have fulfilling partnerships. We fear we will fail our significant others in some way, or that they will disappoint us, so we proceed with caution regarding marital commitment and sharing our lives in long-term involvements.

Saturn in the Eighth House

Unless Saturn is also in Scorpio, there doesn't have to be anything too emotionally gut-wrenching about having Saturn in the Eighth House. Scorpio uses its own kind of powerful fuel to drive Saturn's engine---but in Gemini, for instance, it might be a different story altogether. Thus, the sign involved will give needed clues as to what motivates this Saturn to operate. However, Eighth House matters all deal with circumstances that are typically experienced behind closed doors, away from public scrutiny, so secretiveness and privacy can still be the Scorpio-like issues intrinsic to this house. We find ourselves drawn to serious life situations that are ponderous, complex, and sometimes mysterious. Saturn here suggests we have an urge to control or master those things that have enormous power implications for us, whether within the layers of our own psyches or outside of ourselves in a world of high-stakes survival games, whether involving business, finances, passionate conquests, or intimate but stormy relationships.

Saturn in the Ninth House

Saturn in the Ninth House of collective inspiration and broad social awareness may urge some of us to direct our quest for ultimate meaning toward more practical, workable explanations. Universal ideals and religious concepts need to be well structured and made real if they are to provoke any sense of true belief for us. For those with orthodox views , God must forever prove His Almightiness in clear, black-or-white terms in a world where true believers get healed and sinners get punished for transgressions in this life as well as in the hereafter. Viewing God as a stern judge who rewards the obedient and the righteous may be appealing for some. Others of us, less connected to mainstream religious tenets, may have an ambition to thouroughly understand heavyweight life principles and profound theories. We can be deeply philosophical and contemplative, with a scientific bent. While we may also take religion seriously, we do so cautiously; much the way religious scholars do as they try to differentiate accurate scriptures from corrupted texts. It is important for us to have clearly presented knowledge devoid of cultural bias, which is very difficult to find in the field of religion.<BR>

Saturn in the Tenth House

Our Tenth House is not only a life sector associated with our outward contribution to society's structure, it also represents the fruits of our efforts resulting in our reputation---honor, social standing, and the name we make for ourselves via our achievements. It describes what motivates us to move up the social ladder in our attempt to fulfill our ambitions. Much of these dynamics can be gleaned by studying the sign at our midheaven, our key to the somewhat less personal identity we develop to meet societal demands. However, any planet in our Tenth House does imply a personal drive tht needs proper outlets for its expression. When that planet is Saturn (especially when it is close to the MC), we may feel in a semi-conscious manner that society is forever evalutaing who we are in a worldly sense, and what we intend to do to add something important to this collective structure. We assume the world is not only watching and judging us, but is demanding we produce something tangible, solid, and enduring, so we feel pressured to emulate model civic behavior on some level.

Saturn in the Eleventh House

Saturn in this house has a basic fear of the potential chaos large groups of people can cause. Mobs running wild or anarchists on an uncontrolled path of destruction could be two of and Eleventh House Saturn's worst nightmares. There is something about unregulated group energy on the move that repels this planet. We could at least get claustrophobic in crowds. The Eleventh House is where we find people coming together to support progressive and even futuristic ideals. Large groups of individuals get to pool their energies, form powerful alliances, and operate as an even greater social force, for better or worse, than any one person could alone. Saturn, looking at this complex of egos fortifying eachother's power and will, starts to panic. That's because Saturn is a separatist at heart and is not eager to lose its identity to any group. It will not surrender itself unconditionally to any abstract cause, especially when in this house. Total, unquestioned loyalty is not what Saturn is willing to give (although Saturn/Neptune patterns might). Yet there are many other facets of the Eleventh House experience that can help Saturn feel connected to people in a broader and more purposeful sense.

Saturn in the Twelth House--can be found on "Twelth House" thread

[This message has been edited by MS AVC (edited 12-08-2000).]

PROXIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

I do hope that you manage to read this and finally have it put to be those thought of yours of my Saturn!!!! It's just keeping an eye on me and protecting me from harm!

Love and hugs all round

Lis

As usual your Astrology is as backwards as your spellin'.
I never had a concern about YOUR Saturn. There are a few around here on LG that may be though.
And if you call a 7th House Pisces Saturn a protector, whoa, have you got a surprise coming your way, Scorpio girl.

My Astro-lesson to you from way back was that my Virgo Saturn may be conjunct your Mars, Pluto, and Uranus.
I am sure that if we had not agreed to not discuss charts that I would have put you in your place many moons ago, wee fairy scone.
But since, in reality, I really am a nice guy, I let it roll off like water on a ducks back only because I know that you are INDEED a protected little fairy from heaven's gates.

Besides, could Venus tell Pluto anything? Would Venus upset the Moon? Can Jupiter argue with Neptune?
And with opposing Saturns we are more mature than the average flat dwelling CoatRack, capable of surmounting the most difficult differences through tolerance, forgiveness, patience, and grace. It's just that for once I wish I could find a post with my name on it from you that wasn't a punch in the arm. Many men that I know, in REAL life, would have pushed you off one of those London bridges a long time ago!

And if you had continued to study the material you would have seen that I have an empty 12th in Cancer, ruled by the Moon.
My Moon is in Libra, conjunct my Neptune, and I am ruled by Pluto in Leo, which is the Sun, and my Mercury and Mars are in Aquarius, which is the AGE that is upon us.
I am a fun loving Sun Shinny Moon Child from the depths of the eternal dream world.
Your lucky to even know me.

So don't shake that uptight, nit pickin' detailed Virgo, intense self centered Scorpio crap at me! Leave it at work, honey.

Love and Hugs,
Darwin

which charm school booted you out for smoking behind the bike shed! Someone has been eating cranky pie has he??????

I'm so terribly privelaged to know you, U R right! I so enjoy the pleaseure of having a dicotomis, cranky bloke in my life who gets Oh SO Jelous when he's not given enough attention! Seeing as I'm a scorp virgo type who's terribly strung up on detail...how come I've never even bothed with your chart????

I just take you as you come my dear, hot one day.....cold the next! An angel in my presence?

But one thing I do agree with you on....I don't care what the temerature of the day is. I still love you, even though I'm not IN love with you!!!

Catcha later

Lis

And JUST for the RECORD - SATURN is in my SIXTH HOUSE ACTUALLY! so there!

[This message has been edited by tinkerbell (edited 12-09-2000).]

Isn't Astrology fun!
I love you too.
Darwin

Thanks for posting the houses of Saturn, I checked all my family.

I feel very drawn to Saturn. Well, I must be since it is my Sun sign regent. And I have it in conjuction with my sun.

I have a book that says, according to Saturn how the person dealt with responsability in a prior life and some Karmic stuff!!! very interesting.

If you'd like I would be glad to post the information, for each sign and house.

I'm barely awake yet....

Tish please do post the material you have. I think it's a good idea to have more angles.

Thanks for the comments everyone,
With Love
MS AVC

Lis

[This message has been edited by tinkerbell (edited 12-09-2000).]

OH! I admire you both for your mental agility and witty answers to the post!!!!

I am imaginning how a conversation would be with you too!!!!

Hi MS AVC< I am glad you liked the idea!!

I will go take my book and post!!!

It's only funny if you are in the mood for it.

This is a dead interesting tread - I'm very interested in my 12th house at the moment (givent aht so much of my life hangs out in there).

Proz is just into being mean in the name of Saturn - I like having Saturn 1. in picese and 2 in the 6 OR the 7th house. I think it gives me and interesting take on life. Careful, dicering, non one of those flippity jibbets who falls madly in love with any old tom dick or harry that happens to flutter their eye lashes at her!

Snuff said I'll be good!

Love and hugs as per usual

Lis

Karma has five aspects:

1. Planet Earth Karma
2. Our nation Karma
3. Our ethnic group Karma
4. Our family Karma
5. Our own individual Karma

Saturn on 1st House:

This ubication deals wuth the need to develop the personality. If Saturn is well aspected it shows we have developed our personality correctly in the past and we took our responsabilities in an adequate way.
In consecuence in this life we will harvest the goods of working on our petsonality on other lives. The world will see our personality as a good influence on other people.
If Saturn is negative on the first house indicates that the individual didn't worked on developing the personality. Maybe resisted change, didn't evolutionate like an individual, kept old routines, and denied growth.

thanks for months'-worth of humor, for me, after-- Laughter-in-retrograde!

[This message has been edited by MS AVC (edited 12-09-2000).]

I'm fascinated by your Karma posting. Please explain more of what you may know on that, and do add more of the Houses! If you get the chance

Piscesdreamer I'd like to hear what you learned.

Funnymakers I doubt most would underestimate the lessons taught by Laughiage!!

Love,
Angelika

Prox - if your listening in - please wil you get yourself down to Grrrrrrrrrr thread - I want to know what A2 is on about!!!!

Love and laughter

Lis

thanks YOU guys for "messing" this thread in the right direction. You couldn't know it was exactly what I needed to read today! Fabulous! flippity jibbets, indeed...ha ha ha

Perhaps people won't take their placement in SATURN SO SERIOUSLY...

Like I said, Thank You

* The key factors to analize in Karmic Astrology are included:
1. 12th house --> the past, inconclusive matters.
2.The asc --> the main purpose of the actual encarnation.
3. Saturn--> the legacy of the past.
4. Pluto --> the lessons to learn on this lifetime.
5. Nodes and retrograde planets --> they tell about past characteristics with precision and detail.

Saturn on 2nd House

This placing shows responsability concerning the determination of values, they can relate to money, posessions or moral values. Here the main issue is the important values of the person thruogh life times.
Having Saturn on the 2nd house, the person will have to struggle to obtain his goals.
If Saturn is aspected positive, it is easier to obtain them. He will always have to ask for help though.
Negative aspects to Saturn, means the person didn't developed adequate values on prior lives or made bad use of material posesions and wrong moral values.
Money in itself is a marvelous advantage if it is used correctly.
The lesson to achieve here is "when a person really wants something and gets it, must use it correctly."

Saturn represents Karma, and it not punishes, but teaches. When the person accepts and learns the lesson, he will get everything.
This implication deals with the struggle inside to aknowledge that matter is based on spirit that gives it energy to exist.....in other words 'Spirit (God) is the life on the manifested world".

( I apologized for mistakes in English, I have this material on Spanish in a notebook)

[This message has been edited by Tish (edited 12-09-2000).]

I haven't studied the 2nd House Karma yet, but I think it works best a little at a time anyway. I appreciate your doing the translation work too.
I'm going to read about the 2nd House now.

Thanks to you Amiga
MS AVC

Your welcome!!!!

I am enjoying this!!

I have just finished reading a fantastic book by Liz Greene, "Saturn, a New Look at an Old Devil". It's actually an extremely optimistic book, one that encourages us to make a friend of, and perhaps even welcome what Saturn (something I have found very difficult, with my Saturn T-square)has to teach us.

I think I have to mention Capricorns here.

I know so many, and they have all has very tough lives, yet they (like no other sign) seem to be able to rise above all the crap, and come out the other side completely intact, but tougher.(Shades of Scorpio? Is there a link perhaps?)

Think of all the Capricorns you've known. Does the above apply to the Capricorns in your lives too?

Looking forward to reading more of your posts.

Love from Tanya

I'm glad you are joining us!!

I am a Capricorn, and I have to tell you,
you are so right....

I have been through some rought things, and I always find the strenght to stand up again, and with my head up!!!!

I have a small and fragile outlook, and people around me can't believe I am so strong...

And I have to thank my regent Saturn for that!!

Here Saturn deals with the responsability that the person must have dealing with the way of comunicating with other pesons. It also requieres the aplication of a practical mentality to everyday experiences by acquiring knowledge.
it also indicates the need to get self identification or selfperception.
If Saturn is positive, indicates that in prior lives the person developed stable family relations, and had a responsible commitment to family matters. On this lifetime, the person will be respected by his family, because he will represent the family stability. He will be a guide among the family circle.
If it is negative, the person didn't act responsibly toward the family. He denied mental, economical and spiritual support for his brothers and sisters.
This placing could also mean no brothers or sisters on this lifetime. He can be an only child, and miss having brothers and sisters.
On comunication point of view, Saturn on the 3rd house could mean a waste opportunity to teach others on a past life, denial to share knowledge. Especially spiritual.
It also indicates bad relationship with neighbors on a past life, didn't value education. And denied to share and comunicate with others his knowledge.

"With Saturn in the 3rd... There is inevitably a feeling of isolation with this placement because the mind is generally deep and by nature serious, and there is usually some fear of being humiliated or of sounding silly or foolish to others. There is frequently a feeling of inadequacy about the mental equipment although Saturn in the third is often a brilliant scholar. The brilliance, however, is rarely from intuition but rather from many long hours of painful concentration and self-discipline. Information must be concrete and provable to be of use to Saturn, and this tendency to crystallisation of knowledge is antithetical to the light and purposeless meanderings of the third house. To Mercury all information is of use, even if it is not the truth"

My boyfriend had Saturn, in Gemini in the Third house, and this descibes him perfectly. He will only deal with facts, and he is also very shy.... even though he is one of the cleverest people I have ever met. He wouldn't even discuss astrology with me, because he felt it had no proven scientific basis whatsover. He feels that astrologers are constantly moving the goal posts, as it were, so that anything camn fit. He did read the section on the third house Saturn though....

And it's got him thinking....

I'd like to wink. How can I do that?

Love TXXX

for me, I think there have been more people in my life with Capricorn in their personal planets-- other than Sun. However, I did date a couple Cappies in my twenties. I wasn't as into astrology then. One thing I noticed.....there was a great deal of seriousness with these Sun Cap. guys I speak of, yet, always with that dry-wit--intensely funny. They also seemed persistent in the push for marriage and commitment. I knew I didn't want to marry until at least my late 20's, so I had to back off a bit. Much affection in my memories there. Another Cappy guy I knew growing up (friend of my brothers-mine too) had to have had some mighty fiery planets & aspects. He was quite rambunctious, and laughed and joked so often and crazily people would have a hard time guessing his Sun. I knew his serious-side too--it was well developed--more beneath the surface.

The author (Bil Tierney) of the book I've been reading did suggest in his book the one you mention by Liz Greene - "Saturn, a New Look at an Old Devil". The optimistic point of view is exactly where I'm coming from too. I'm an optimist by nature anyhow, so that may have to do with my attraction to the positive side of Saturn. I think it's important that a person look at the more distressed areas of their life (time) (and satisfying parts too) through the scope of Saturn--there, is Wisdom and Balance. I plan to read the Greene book. Glad you mentioned it.

It's great to have Tish here, MS CAPPY ......she's made of tough-stuff and much wisdom.

BTW I'm Virgo Sun

With Love,
MS AVC

boy, I wonder how many times I'll type the word "Saturn" today

For the "wink" hit the " ; " then the " ) "
You can also click on the "Smiles Legend" link right next to the posting field on the Reply to Topic page--to learn those basic emoticons.

I know what you mean of your boyfriend's skepticism. These "skeptic" issues have been tumbling around in my thoughts since forever, but it seems to be looking at them through Saturn can indeed help make sense, and at the very least, provide some growthful thought and insight for a person. It's making a lot of sense to me at this point.

With Love,
MS AVC

I can relate to your comments about Capricorns, my rising is Aquarius, so everybody thinks I am much lighter and freer....and my Moon is Gemini.....
but deep inside my "earth" nature pulls me down!!!
I haven't looked deeply at my sister's chart.....been studying my Grandma's chart because of a dream I had.
I admire many things of Virgo's your persistence and ability to do everything right.
And it shows you are a true Virgo.
By studying deeply at Saturn, you have guided us in doing the same.....
You wouldn't look at saturn superficialy, many times we do that, and we miss so much.
Thank you for showing us how things must be done!!!!

Here what is of significance is the way this person accpeted responsabilities in his home.If he was a good provider for spouse and children. And if he accepted his or her responsabilities as a parent.

In a well aspected Saturn, the person accepted those responsabilies on the past and tried to satisfy the needs of his family. In this life this person will have all the advantages of a secure home life.

A negative Saturn indicates that the person didn't provide for the family, or avoided the responsabilities of having kids. On this life he will probably grow in a lacking family environment, be it in, an emotional, material or spiritual frame.

talk about compliments! wowsie wow wow Thanks....
I read your complimentary-post a little while ago but had to go attend to a few things. I wanted to tell you I've read about your "grandma-dream" and your research into past lives--comparing all your charts and stuff......
I'm absolutely fascinated. It's almost disheartening to have little knowledge of all the astro-language and teaching, and to want to follow along with it as easily. I believe your grandma's a Gemini Sun? Interesting, my paternal grandmother is a Gemini. She's now in her 90's. I don't have her birth data but I'm going to find it, hopefully soon. She's been a significant person in my life, as is your grandma Especially when I was a little girl.
I'm sorry for all your troubled feelings and family conflicts, since her passing. I know a similar experience, losing a dearly dearly loved person in my life, to death this year. I'm certain of connections to this person on the soul level. I find it amazing how much this person is within me now, as if guiding and helping me to learn all of this. You're also helping me learn in so many ways Tish These astrology and related studies put a framework to things I've always "known." I've got sooo much to learn.

She has her Sun in Aries, she was born is April. I felt very emotional when I learned about her Aquarius Moon, it made me remember many things about her. She was a woman ahead of her time. She was the first woman in Guatemala to go horsebackriding sitting like a man, wearing pants, and the first woman to wear pants to go out on the city. She was a National Champion on horse jump. She won aGold medal on an American Olimpics back in the 40's.
She also was the first woman to own a convertible car, I 've been told she looked gorgeous with a scarf on her head and leather gloves!!!! Many men were in love with her when she became a widow at 41, but she never remarried.
She was so exceptional that she kept the family together and influenced all of us deeply. I guess that's why it has been so dificult for the family. Everybody feels like our foundations are missing.
Now I have to find her ascendant, a task I find very difficult!!!!
Little by little I am putting together the puzzle, very challenging and rewarding!!!

I can feel my deep conection with her, and feel her guidance. And I hope she is with my Grandpa right now!!!

We all have so much learn.....lets enjoy the learning that is drawing us together!!!!!

yes, no wonder there's so much loss and missing her among your family. There's yet a new Aries woman for me to admire! Amazing you can even describe just some of her on one posting. She must have been so much more. I got the Gemini mixed up somewhere along the line.....I think my head is filled with so much new info lately However, since she has Aquarius Moon and you Aquarius ASD. I will tell you that my Aqua. Sun mom is amazing in my eyes (many other people too). That statement "ahead of her time" fits my mom perfectly--probably most strong Uranus people to some degree. I'll have to describe more of her at some point.

I hope I can be of some help to you, somehow, with the puzzle your working on. Maybe something we're talking about will "click" at least advancing your research. I'm good at puzzles too, always been a specialty with me.

Just think, your grandma is living and known in all the minds that read about her here.

Thanks for taking interest in my study!!! I am so happy to be able to let out all the emotion I am feeling. And to such a wonderful friend !!!!

So far I found maybe she was Leo rising, and it does fit perfectly so far. She liked to be "on the light", loved having us her cubs around and enjoyed life.

I will love hearing about your mom, my sons tease me a lot, but they are "glad" I am not like the other moms!!!!

Maybe you got mixed up, because we talked about my mother's Gemini Moon.
My mother is my first concerned about this whole thing. She is having a hard time dealing with my Grandma's death. A lot of mixed emotions and guilty feelings.
She is a Piscis. When I was a little girl I had my Aqua rising a little bit hidden, and I always felt like I was the mother and she the kid!!!! Poor Mom, having to deal with a seriuos Cappie and a critical Virgo (my sister) !!!!

one thing Saturn's wisdom can teach is realizing Virgo's Criticisms are a "loving" way to help ( most of the time) darn though, that it has to be so irritating at times!!!....to me too

Now there are so many points we're talking here, I'll have to think about them, and write more about them later. I am 1/4 hispanic, but people never guess that by looking at me. We didn't speak Spanish in my home growing up. I'm 3/4's British heritage and have got family charts going back several centuries. Although my Brit side has been in America since it's inception, there is a lot of that cultural legacy running through my family still.

I was thinking about your Aries grandma being athletic.....seems to be a common trait there. My Aries ASD must be the reason for my life-long athletic endeavors, such as ballet, gymnastics, sprinting ( at my elementary school I held a speed record, and chin up record--at that time), and beating up boys!!! Just kidding, but I did have to put a few off at times when they chased me around the school yard.....ugh! , can you believe a Virgo--supposed to be Modest--is going on about herself like this?? I'm just having fun remembering those things. Your grandma's accomplishments, and athleticism got me going down memory lane.

All that "in the light" activity in her life does seem rather Leo. You'll have to post more about her as you remember these things. I enjoy hearing about it, and maybe can make some points to help. I'll have to write a few funny stories in my life-experience as I remember them, sometime--since you mentioned those people of yours and their signs. This is fun, I agree.

I think I'm going to have to print this thread out, so I can refer to your posts whilst replying...

That Capricorn thing...

Both my parents are Capricorns. My sister and I (I'm a Leo, she's an Aquarian), have our Moons in Capricorn. Saturn, and Capricorns, have always played a major part in my life, although I've only gone out with one, once, when I was very young.

A few months ago, on the 'Ask the Astrologer' forum, I posted a thread about my ill friend. I'm afraid that she died recently, but I couldn't really bring myself to post this information. It didn't seem real. She was a Capricorn, as is her younger sister and her mother. They are dealing with it in the most incredibly dignified admirable way (although I have to say that this makes it even more heartbreaking). Amanda was truly wild, brilliant lady, with the most outrageous, bawdy sense of humour, (Sag, ascendant, Saturn conjubct the first house). What she, and her family have taught me is that, even when things are truly terrible, it is possible to make the best of things. At her illest, Amanda was, amazingly given the circumstances, strong, full of good humour, and still able to give, give, give to others. Perhaps more so at this time than any other.

So Tish, are you doing an Astrological family tree. It must be incredibly difficult, finding out the times of your grandparents and beyond... Do you know about rectification? Your Grandmother sounds an incredible woman, A Sagittarius ascendant possibly?

MS AVC and Tish, could you possibly give me your birth data, then hopefully I'll have a better picture of you both.

Lots of love from TanyaXXX

Tanya, I'm sorry to hear about your loss. However, I'm glad you were able to share it here....the spirit of the thread perhaps contains something concerning Amanda's life, her family, you, and everyone who knew and love her....

Since we've all been discussing Capricorn Sun's and humor, it dawned on me a good example to consider....Jim Carey!

here's what Astronet had to say...

Jim Carrey: Frenetically Funny Talent


ASTRONET Stars on Stars
For the Week of April 26, 1999

By AstroMaggi

Jim Carrey: Frenetically Funny Talent
January 17, 1962, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

He has the same hyperactive, nonsensical stage presence as his comedic ancestor, Jerry Lewis. On first impression, it appeared that actor/comedian Jim Carrey honed his talent for slapstick in junior high and aimed his performance at a similar audience. His breakthrough role in "Ace Ventura, Pet Detective" earned him a loyal following among the pre-adolescent crowd and a whopping $72 million at the box-office. With those kinds of numbers, Hollywood was more than willing to let Jim be as inane as he wanted in "The Mask" and "Dumb and Dumber." His role in "The Cable Guy," however, gave us an inkling that there was more to Jim Carrey than just elastic-faced excesses of silliness.

Our first surprise is that Jim is a Capricorn. His verbal and timing skills may be the product of his lively Gemini Moon. But aren't Cappy's known for being seriously mature and parental? Does this reconcile with Jim's frenetic juvenile comedy? Yes ..., but only if we take a serious look at Capricorn's "shadow side."

The antiscia (super technical astrological indicators that lucky you do not need to worry about, dear reader) of Jim's Sun, Venus and Mars fall in Sagittarius, one of the most playful signs of the zodiac. This explains why it is, that underneath the somber exterior of many Capricorns you'll find a naughty inner child just waiting to break free. Cappy natives release these energies vicariously, through their children or by choosing much younger partners. Jim Carrey shadow side helps him to manage the failed expectations of his formative youth.

In Jim's natal chart, the Sun represents the father. Jim's Sun conjoins the planet of limitations, Saturn. Jim's dad was an aspiring jazz saxophonist who never realized his dreams. Like a good, self-sacrificing Capricorn, he worked as an accountant to care for his family ... until Jim was 14, and dad lost his job. This shift in the family's fortune forced them to move to another town. Both Jim and his father took on full time work as janitors for the entire family of six. Jim was sad and bitter and eventually dropped out of high school. Because the wordly ambition of this Capricorn was stymied, he took the indirect, shadow-side approach to success. Jim began appearing as a stand-up comic in the Toronto area, and in 1979 he moved to Los Angeles ... and on to feature films.

Jim seems to have taken a rambling road to relationship satisfaction too. He has two ex-wives and an ex-companion, Linda Ronstadt. Jim's divorce from his first wife was hostile and expensive. A look at his chart tells the story. Jim's solar 7th house of partnerships has Venus in Capricorn as the ruler, and Venus is within several degrees of the Sun. This position generates a lot of control issues in partnerships. Venus is severely weakened by being "combust" or so close to the Sun (Jim) it can't be seen. Partners soon feel burnt-out by Jim's celebrity status and disappear.

Jim's definitely headed towards success as an actor. His performance in "Liar, Liar" earned him a Golden Globe nomination. "The Truman Show" was his first serious dramatic film. More will follow. Jim's progressed Sun and Venus have recently entered Pisces. Because beneficent Jupiter rules this sign, it's generated a definite change in his luck. In addition, the shadow side of Pisces is in Libra, the sign associated with love and relationships. Jim will take a romantic leading role in several films, as well as in his personal life. His comedy has opened all the doors for his Capricorn talents to walk in and take complete charge, in proper Cappy style.

Copyright, 1999
AstroMaggi for Astronet

Thanks for the comments. Jim Carrey must have some Water element, or aspect to run with all that emotional fuel....I haven't seen his chart.

My husbands Mars is in Capricorn....my, yet another coincidence with you

With Love,
MS AVC

Three long posts have been lost for different reasons, it was not meant for me to write long today!! Grrrrrrrr.

Dear MS AVC,
I had written a lot about my sister, how she is also athletic like you, she loves to do sports and Gymnastic, she now is into "spinning" and playing squash.
We have like you 1/4 Hispanic heritage and the rest European, from Belgium and Germany. Never learned the language though. My sister learned German and now is studying to be a German Teacher.Thank you for your comments and insights about my Grandma, I like to hear them they are very wise!
I also like reading about your experiences and family.

Dear Tanya,
Here is my data:

December 25, 1958
10:00 a.m.
Guatemala, Guatemala

Would you post yours?

I am very sorry about Amanda, I remember your post. I am sure she is a great soul. I can imagine she being concerned about her loved ones, instead of worrying about her illness.
It is amazing how a tragedy takes out the best on some persons. My heart is with you and her family....
Yes, Tanya I am doing my Grandma's chart without knowing the time of birth. Dave is guiding me with the rectification.
I investigated on your suggestion about Sag rising. It does fit her. The book Relationships Sign, has two or three descriptios that fit her very well!!!
I'll play with the chart using the Sag ascendant and see what I find......thanks!!!

Dear Aries, yes, Cappie's choose a hard life.....specially Cappie moon.

Hello Blakeheart!!! Nice to see you here.

I will continue posting about Saturn tomorrow, don't want another long post to be lost!!!!

Saturn in this house is connected to sons and daughters.

If Saturn is well aspected, the person will have kids and the responsibilities toward them won't be difficult. He will be blessed and his kids will bring joy and satisfaction. This situation means that in prior lives, he took care of his kids and provide well for them, in general.

A negative Saturn, will carry many responsibilities, and problems with his kids. They won't be what is expected and probably won't show affection or care toward the parent.
It could also mean no kids. Meaning that in a prior life he abandoned his kids or didn't take responsibility toward them.

I just posted a message for you in the "generations" thread at Ask The Astrologer.....I wanted to tell you how sweet it was for you to type out your long post of thoughts (that you lost ) about your sister for me.

It seems almost everyone has had a difficult day, but I feel that you will be able to share these stories of your sister and grandmother ( I can hardly wait!) and whatever else, when the Sky is right Thank you so much for all you put into that today

With Love,
MS AVC

I've always seen "through" Jim Carrey that way. Seems like someone who acts the way he does regularly, is either/both hiding something, expressing much grief!!

At the same time, I think it has a "theraputic" value to those who get laughs out of it....perhaps some don't even realize.....why??

My 2 cents

Well, it was frustrating, but all will come in its right time.
It's been fun sharing with you!!!!

I was laughing by myself remembering some episodes of Jim Carey's movies!!!!
I can imagine him as the sad Clown, that hides his sadness with his makeup!!

And now to continue with Saturn and Karma,

Saturn in 6th house

This placing relates to health matters, attitude toward service and reaction toward other persons. It indicates the attitude of the person in prior lives to social responsibilities.

A positive Saturn will give good health, social acceptance and popularity. This means that in past lives the person cared about social matters, and had good relationship with others. A correct understanding of the terms "I am" and "we are".

A negative Saturn, will indicate a lack of social responsibilities in past lives, indifference to humanity in general. He worried only about himself and his health to the point of Hypochondriac. In this lifetime, will have hard responsibilities toward this issues, and probably bad health. He will need an attitude of dedication and effort to erase Karma. The key word is "service".

[This message has been edited by Tish (edited 12-10-2000).]

Tish, a Christmas Birthday! Maddie's mother, Tricia, ia a Christmas birthday too! It makes the day even more special I have been losing posts too, as you'll see in the dream circle. Aren't computers fun?

MS AVC,
Your hubby is Mars in Cappy too? cool!

Aries, Jim Carrey boring? It's hard to picture, but I guess no one can be "on" all of the time. Maybe with the energy of a hummingbird! That must be hard, though, to be expected to be funny at all times.
What pressure!

It was so interesting to read about Saturn in the 5th house, because Maddie has that placement. When it said that in priors lives she took care of her children and provided for them well, it made me wonder if maybe she parented her parents and cared for them in a past life, and so now it is their karma to take good care of her.
She has one hard aspect- Mars square Saturn.
I'll have to look that one up soon to get more meaning.

cheerio! Lisa

It's the first time I know of someone who was born on the 25th. Please give Tricia a big hug from me!!!! It so interesting about little Maddie having Saturn on 5th house. She certainly must have been a good provider of her children!!!

Saturn on 7th house,

This placements deals with associations, in business or marriage, but the most important is on an esoteric point of view, association with life itself. It indicates that the person will have many obligations, compromises and responsabilities.
If Saturn is positive, the person will harvest many good things from asociations, which indicates that he faced his responsabilities in past lives. He had a serious attitude and was faithful to every need. It shows he was a good partner in marriage. This life will bring him a serious devote and faithfull partner. He centered his attention on true values and applied them to himself and to others.

From a negative perspective, shows that the person avoided the responsabilities on associations, didn't care about the needs of the partner. It is probably that he was unfaithful in marriage, or showed no love. In this lifetime, the negative Karma can postpone marriage, and there's no guarantee of finding happiness through it.

I was doing a sinastry of your chart and mine. I have found some aspects and contacts with planets very interesting.

I knew your Saturn is on house 12, and had to apply "saving dayslight time" to have it correctly.

But just to make sure, Do you have your Sun on house 6 ?

Thanks!!!!

yes, Sun is in my 6th. I am so glad you're comparing our synastry. I tried doing ours a little already but other than obvious Planetary placements, I'm not sure how the aspects work exactly. This is very good you doing this I'll want to compare notes with you and see what you find. I'm not sure if I'll be back tonight but I'm very interested!!!!!!!!

Lisa If you stop by to read this I just wanted to tell you I've had a good day of meditation.
The white light for Maddie is all around

I was very glad that you supplied your information, because since your first post I felt very drawn to you. And I felt so much empathy, like we knew each other since many time!!!

So far I found we have Jupiter conjuction Mars. This aspect means a great vibration for friendship, we encourage optimism in each other and will have a smooth agreement in religion and phylosophy of life. We could do wonders in a team, because we complement each other. We also have the ability to achieve prosperity and financial security together. Just a warning.....we seem to stimulate excesive spending in each other!!

I am definetly moving to your city!!!!
I promise I won't let you buy that expensive Cartier watch!!!

Saturn in 8th House:

A positive Saturn indicates, that the person in past lives worried seriously in the search of the truth. He was very disciplined in learning, growing and making himself a better person. He will be rewarded on this life with many Teachers on his path.

A negative Saturn indicates that he ,maybe was involved in looking for knowledge, but made a bad use of this knowing. He didn't applied his knowledge and used it irresponsibly. It could also mean that this person took advantage of money and properties of others. In this lifetime he must make an effort to acquire knowledge and make good use of it, share it and teach others.

Saturn in 9th House

This placement indicates how the person developed his higher mind, and functioned through it. It shows that he received all the advantages and opportunities to study and learn.

A positive Saturn will show that the person took this education seriously and deep. His philosophy of life was stable and constructive. Therefore on this life, his opportunity to continue learning will increase. He will have more time and money and less worldly worries to dedicate himself in pursuit of knowledge.

If Saturn is negative, it indicates a lack of interest on a past life, even though he had the opportunities. He didn't worked on developing his mind. Made a bad use of religious teachings or didn't applied his knowledge to daily life. On this lifetime, he will lack opportunities to learn, he will wish to study, but will find many obstacles to his wishes.

[This message has been edited by Tish (edited 12-11-2000).]

A positive Saturn shows that in past lives the person occupied a good place in life, used his authority well and developed a high degree of responsabily in his duties. He had great prestige and honor. And he had great moral values. On this lifetime he will receive respect and a honored place. He will have great impact and leadership.

A negative Saturn shows, he probably had power, authority and prestige but made bad use of them. It also indicates that his ambition and goals were motivated on the pursuit of material things. On this life he will have to struggle to acquire prestige, power and authority. He must developed better moral values, of honesty, truth and loyalty.

Saturn on 11th House

This placing deals with the responsibility toward friends and social life in general, toward development of adequate relationships.

Positive Saturn shows that in past lives the person accepted his responsibilities toward others. He was a true friend, with long lasting friendships and a serious attitude toward friends. On this lifetime he will have appreciation from his friends and will receive support and advantages from relationships. He will be a guide amongst his circle.

Negative Saturn shows in past lives the person used people for his advantage. And didn't appreciate friendship. He went through others without caring for their feelings. He was selfish, critical and thought he was better than the rest. On this life time, he will be a solitaire, but not by choice.

Saturn in 12th House

Here Karma is double accentuated, because this is the house of Karma.

A positive Saturn announces good Karma. It relates to the development of the qualities of the soul. It indicates that the person developed the concept of "US". It manifests a correct, responsible and spiritual person. On this lifetime he will have the opportunity to achieve a higher development.

A negative Saturn shows bad use of the qualities of the soul on a previous life. He didn't gave service, or he did service but on a selfish point of view, he gave to receive.
He had the opprotuniites to development, but let them pass.

[This message has been edited by Tish (edited 12-11-2000).]

It's nice to see you here, we''ll be looking forward to your participation on this Karmic Saturn thread

Hi Piscesdreamer get here when you can.....till then, enjoy!!!

Tish! I feel the same, perhaps oneday we will meet in person
You're Cappy humor is showing!!! [ I promise I won't let you buy that expensive Cartier watch!!!]
gave me a laugh!!

Karma has worked well for me in this lifetime--it's been a good one Many blessings and a only a few bumps along the way. Just need to stay true to purpose.

I need to spend time today learning more about aspects and orbs. Very fascinating.

BTW glad you got all those Houses posted

I have a tale of amazing ties of the souls and the soul family.
A tale of curious bewilderment, ever so slow to congeal in my conscience nest
I tell you of a MIRACLE of KARMA balancing with a little help from my friends.

Come together; come together, right now, over me.

I hope I can word this quick enough with the right feeling. Time is of the essence as transits are changing.
I checked the GalexyWatch days and indicated do it with feelings or be quite.

So, here goes from the heart, but my nerves are irritated a bit so the words may be less feeling and more just excitement.

My son is now 32 years old and I lost him to drugs and alcohol when he was 16. Even after two terms in treatment, he left at 19 one day and I never saw him again until he was 26. All the things in my life were meaningless, my material, money, career, my own happiness. I was devastated over my son.
As time went on and he came back, many sore feelings were buried just beneath the surface. I could not make him change; I could no longer deal with him. I was at a total lost as to what to do. So I buried myself into a thankless job and coasted along on short-term material satisfaction.
Only Uranus could dig me out.
One day along came a soul connection that changed forever how I view love, lust, and threatened my very integrity as a living being.
For a while I thoht I would not be able to live with out that person in my life. From there I was guided through a series of contacts and lessons.
Mainly finding the LG web site and findings my soul sisters and brothers. Far two many words needed to explain it all, but finally healing enough of my self to again deal with my son. I tried, yet I was reluctant, I was part of the problem. How can a problem solve its self?
I needed divine intervention. I needed a third party cure. I needed all of you.

There's this girl I know. Her name is tinkerbell. We are friends; we have never seen each other.
She calls me on the phone and we talk. We have no chart to speak of, at least that's what the ordinary look-see would indicate.
Her moon is sitting in my Venus's lap. That's probably why she calls me. But another curious aspect is My Sun is sextile and trine her whole essence.
Is this tale about tinkerbell, no? It's about the need of a father from the one to find his lost son.

This thread is of Saturn and the 12th house. Thinkerbell is a 12th house Virgo fairy healer. She is also a 3rd house Scorpio friend.
As per the mentioning from time to time of us having no chart and the fact that I was lagging behind in the art of reading these charts, I decided to take one more look as I have been looking at a few and can now see the chart with out a 30 minute legend study. As I was looking at our Natal composite chart I noticed the totality of her was focused at my Sun. As I was viewing our chart, my son sat down beside me and started asking questions. Soon, we ran his chart. He is a total 12th house Scorpio boy. The discussion took a most Karmic turn. One question / answer set lead to another. He saw, he realized, he became aware of his soul / personality.
We talked for about two hours, about his perceptions, his ways, and ideals. I am filled with more hope for a solution than ever before. He is at the threshold of being a new person, a lost soul back on a growth path. And this is what I think happened, what I feel happened, and maybe it's screwy Astrology, but it's beyond explaining in so few words.

Tinkerbell's essence came through my Sun, which is I, to help me see my son. He then saw tinkerbell's essence and knew it because it was like his. These two, through my Sun, me, became a balancing energy. It was the same energy, one positive, and one negative. To be the mind in the middle of this transfer was awesome.
Not tinkerbell or Aaron but the like energies communicating in some mysterious manner of mind, heart, soul, and matter.
I see a wonderful solution formulating for a very difficult and long delayed complex problem.
A lost soul has been found, my son, and it would not have happened with out all of you, and without thinkerbell's moon.
This is only a surface of the happenings and the feelings but I wanted to share this as hope for even the most difficult situations, never lose hope, but give love enough time to find you. I know it is only a beginning but I feel now that if I go tomorrow my son will make it through life ok, and his soul will grow now.

Love you all,
I love you, tinkerbell
Darwin

Your story brought tears to my eyes.....
Many feelings involved, hard to explain.

I too, have a son whose soul is lost ...
he is younger but I can't get through him.....

.....I hope your miracle finds a way to my home.....

Lots of love....

Scorpio is your son's asset, wherever located--and in the 12th--he can do Anything...

....with the Moon in Cancer tonight (conjunct my natal Moon), I'm more feel than word , I sense healing and growth--for both of you. He seems open...much positive vibe...

Much Love

Picesdreamer, In thought of your questions, my response would first be...
(from dictoinary) Purpose: "something set up as an object", or, "end to be obtained"
Tell what you have felt is Your Purpose I'd enjoy responding I feel I understand you very well

Tish

I hope you share something about you son

Much Love,
MS AVC

He'll do you proud that scorp boy of yours. the 12th house is all about rebirth and growth adn healing. Perhaps he can help you 2. He's older and wiser and you can be truely proud of him.

It's easy to sail through life in a luxury yatch, not so easy on a life raffed full of holes. That boy of yours has achieved SO much just by getting through the life he has had. It's is his journey.

I love you too

Sorry I'll stop crying in a minute or two!

All my love and hugs and thank you SO much for sharing such a treasured moment.

Lis

I was hoping you'd get here soon. This stirred my emotions in many ways, moved me beyond words. I feel a whole lot of positive energy in that story, and you have been a big part there

I can't express how totally touched I am! (I called and said it insetad!) I think that Darwin has made my year for me.

It was so sweet that just beig a freind has helped them! I'm so terrible proud of them both!

Gosh I'm close to tears again!

Love and hugs all round

Lis

Ps Darwin I took a wee peek at all the charts concerned - I see what you mean about Arron almost beign like a mirror image of me in some ways. Very strange. it's so wierd! I also had a look at our compatibility thing - yip my moon is on your venus - and here was me thinking that cappie moon of mine was useless and didn't work, perhaps it's good after all! I'm glad it came in handy.

I'm still tottaly in awe of all that has happened.

Love and hugs

L

[This message has been edited by tinkerbell (edited 12-13-2000).]

Thank for you kind words. I never know what to say in a follow up.
Here is my thohts.

Hi tinkerbell,

Yes, like a mirror image. I'm too fuzzy headed to think much today. He confessed so much, how he had decided early on to just be a drunk, join the Navy, and hide away and live life hard and fast. How he slowly learned about relatives on his mom's side that had a history of alcohol problems. (Very obscure child's view of some people that are so removed from our life.) On and on, and with each new bit of information he said he was not able to be what he thoht he was meant to be.
I explained about balancing the 12th into the 6th as service to others and it made since to him. He has Neptune in 2nd Virgo and some 8th house items (Saturn I think), so I explained how he could realize his dreams of money and possessions if he balanced the Saturn 8th into working and doing rather than just thinking about it.
Well, that's just a little of the Astrology part, there's lots more and only time will get him there. He said he would be 4 years clean and sober on Feb 19th and stressed how important that date was as he had set a 5-year goal, that if he made it that long he would be ok and not go back. I'll remember that date and try to be with him then, maybe dinner and a present like a birthday. Thanks for being here Lisa. (insert 6 hearts here)

Tish,
I have no magic but follow your heart concerning your boy and the one will find a way. I send lots of Love and Hugs for you.

Tish, one thing that Aaron is very interested in is submarines (actually war and war history in general). I showed him the past life sub story you translated and explained that a man remembered this life of a submarine death. Well, Aaron told me yesterday that he had thoht about that and he said he could remember bits of him being a drunk in a western town. He didn't go into it much but said he thoht that it may be a past thing and that now he didn't have to be that again after all.

One last thing Tish, just for you. It snowed here Monday and Tuesday night. Not a lot but everything looked so beautiful with all the Christmas lights.
[Sorry, this image is no longer available.]
Love and Hugs to you all,

Darwin

[This message has been edited by proxymoon (edited 12-13-2000).]

I can imagine the landscape like a Christmas card with your house on the back with the lights on!

Thanks for your thoughts, I decided I won't wait for miracle, I will ask for guidance and hope for the best. This boy has a heart of gold, and deserves my effort.

A big ((((hug)))) for you and Aaron!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Tish (edited 12-13-2000).]

Proxymoon, your story reaches out to people. Very healing. The author of the book I've quoted from is " Scorpio with Mercury in Scorpio and a Sun/Pluto/ASC T-square." Part of the last paragraph from his book...."Always be willing to make adjustments to your sense of reality. One last piece of advice: this may sound corney to some of you hard-core Plutonians, but Saturn is your friend if you let yourself be a friend to Saturn (that's right, take ole Saturn out to lunch!). Shake hands with this planet and even try a warm hug (but nothing too mushy). You'll find that, at least on the level of character developement, this will prove a worthy alliance providing you with inner rewards for a lifetime."

Tish what Sun sign is your son you speak of?
BTW I saw the photos of Buddy on another forum and was so heartbroken! You say he's missing? It brought tears to my eyes to know that especially after seeing his photo's. I don't want to get too "mushy" right now but he is so beautiful. That 3rd photo of him--he looks so happy, and so smart. I don't want to upset you but I'm hurt for you, and him I didn't want to mention it at the other forum because I didn't want to change the energy into something sad I will include in my prayer his safe return home, and that he is being well taken care of at this time

--oops, Tish, I just looked again and saw the name Benny--and you say is a She

Love
MS AVC

[This message has been edited by MS AVC (edited 12-13-2000).]

I've enjoyed these Saturn threads!

I won't be around for awhile as my husband and I will be off to visit family for the holidays. I've always enjoyed the Christmas season--enchanting--even though it doesn't snow in the part of CA where I'm from. Being together with family is my favorite I want to wish you all Happy Holidays!!!

Much Love
MS AVC

I hope you see my post before you go for the holidays, I hope for you and your family a wonderful time full of love and peace!!

I'm sorry I didn't explain correctly, that picture is from another dog, I wanted to show the type of her breed...but she looks exactly like that. I don't think we'll find her as it has been too long, I hope she is with someone who takes good care of her.

My dear son is Gemini Sun, Scorpio rising and Cappie moon, his Saturn is on House 8th.
This boy is so sensitive, he has problems dealing with all the stuff we went through lately......

much love and hugs for you and your son. I'm sorry I didn't say so earlier. But as for a stray soul...they are never really lost - kjust wandered in a different direction. Most of them come back in the end - hope and love you can't survive without it.

Much love

Lis

Tish Thank you for the holiday wishes. I'd wanted to wish them for you and yours too I had to keep my day open for packing and stuff. I knew if I came by here I'd stay too long! This Saturn/12 Houses/karma study is fascinating. By your studying here I know it will help--for your son as well. My husband is Sun/Moon/Mercury in Scorpio. You think that would keep him from being real "talkative?" haha! However our charts work together my planets must light his up--or the Houses--combo--whatever.....as we keep eachother good company--he's such a sweetie(and I've always been talkative anyway!).

I'm sorry about your dog--that type thing always hits me strait in the heart. I've loved having my various dogs most of my life. They're quite amazing. You know, I noticed something interesting....my dog is a Libra, but I've read somewhere that you go more by a dogs Moon sign....his is Pisces....mine is Cancer.....my husband's Scorpio! Makes for a good combo as we're all "tuned-in" to eachother.

Happy Holidays
MS AVC

Have a great and safe trip and Merry Christmas, MS AVC!! I'll miss ya around here!
In the short time that you have been here at Linda's, you have become a bright addition to the forums! Be sure and let us know how your Christmas went!

Proxy, I'm so happy for you and your son.
It sounds as if he has really learned a lot about himself, and it's very encouraging to hear he has already been sober for over 4 years. He must have already battled his biggest demons and is well on the path to new discoveries within himself.
I wish you both much happiness in a new future together!

Tish, Yes, I forgot to tell you that we call Tricia "Trish". Pretty close, huh?
Also, I'm sorry to hear about your son. It must be so hard to watch him go through it, and feel helpless about it too. Your little Gemini has a beautiful heart, though, I'm sure, cuz you are his Mother, and he will learn from his mistakes and "find" himself again. Keep on loving him unconditionally like always and he will always know that he has a loving home to return too and that will make all the difference in the end.

It is nice to think of Saturn as a friend.
Always loyal and there in the worst times of trouble to give the strength and endurance to see you through!
Unfortionately without sadness and heart-break, we could never know true happiness or bliss! Or the wisdom that tough experiences bring us.
Saturn, the tough teacher who gave us all the homework, and who we may have hated at the time, years later we realize was our best teacher who taught us the most!

Love and occasional tumbles through Saturn's rings, Lisa

we're not actually leaving until this weekend--driving down--depending which is best day for travel. I'm just trying to keep from being distracted by all the "heavy" themes that have been in my thoughts lately. I also have much to do around the house, shopping (ahhh a couple last minute gifts!!), and whatnot.

Lisa thanks for your kind words. Ya'll make me laugh (nope, I don't have a southern accent--in fact, I'm from California--born and raised....we don't have "accents" LOL)

Now for Saturn in the 4th house--my soulmate. Has often expressed regret that his father was too busy and spent no time with him. Then, his father died when he was 19, and there was no chance to get closer. He wants his life to be about being the best father he can be to his two children.
Also, interesting, he married a Capricorn, which represents the father. And I can see exactly how those security issues affect him.

When I have more time--seems like it will be never this week--I will study this thread more.

Bye for now,
Piscesdreamer

In response to the "purpose" question: I just don't know. Important to me: #1 is being best Mom I can be. High on list would be developing relationships and maintaining those with family and friends. Learning all I can learn. Using talents to create new things (wishing I had a higher vision!). Living life to fullest. Enjoying the gifts of the earth. What I am working on is what path I should take or should have taken? When I die, I want to be proud of my life.
Always feel so vague about things. Your question is hard to answer.

I'm glad you feel you understand me because I don't understand myself!

Love,
Piscesdreamer

I'd hoped my question didn't come across too harsh to you. I'm very interested in those thoughts you leave. I feel as though many of my words lately have been bumbling and confusing. So sorry. If I get time before the upcoming trip I'll write my response. Also, there's the possibility of you and I exchanging e-mail addresses. I think it would be interesting and helpful Otherwise, I'm thinking of getting ICQ or something similar. Thank you for your kind words also, it means a lot to me.

One thing's for certain, I need to go back through these threads we've been talking on to gather up some info together. My thoughts have been scattered around lately just like the posts I'm looking forward to my trip as a break for my poor, overworked brain circuits

Love,
MS AVC

P.S. if I don't have time before trip I'll do it after

[This message has been edited by MS AVC (edited 12-15-2000).]

The antiscia (super technical astrological indicators that lucky you do not need to worry about, dear reader)
of Jim's Sun, Venus and Mars fall in Sagittarius, one of the most playful signs of the zodiac. This explains
why it is, that underneath the somber exterior of many Capricorns you'll find a naughty inner child just
waiting to break free.

I am sorry but I don't think this is right.
Unless I got Jim Carrey's chart wrong, his Mecury is in Aquarius.
Venus and Mars in Capricorn.
Saturn/Jupiter in Aquarius.

People always try to brush away saying that Caps are serious and if they are wild children it must be some other planetary influences.....
Well if that is the case than the Sun in Capricorn must be one mighty position for Wild Children who are not somber or old.....

NICOLAS CAGE
ELVIS PRESLEY
JANIS JOPLIN
DAVID BOWIE
ROWAN ATKINSON a.k.a. Mr. Beam.

I believe the explanation lies more in the fact that Capricorn has a Wild Child Nature in its own sign. Esoterically Capricorn is tied to the Greek God of Parties and Nature, PAN.
The answer to wild and crazy Caps doesn't lie in the other planets but within Capricorn itself.
This is one of the most Dualistic signs, with contrasts as strong as Gemini or Sagitarius.
The opposite of Capricorn is Cancer- the quintessential symbol of Mother Earth/Nature.
Think Nature-Wild.

Lis

That really hit me about the Capricorns. My father is a Cap and a schizophrenic.
He has never complained ONCE about it. I got so pi**ed off at him and at God when i was 13 for the unfairness of it.
He also always told me "better me than someone who's not equipped to handle it" and the everpresent Catholic version of that "God never gives anyone a cross heavier than they can carry"

I never tied this in with the CAP thing. Although maybe that is an argument for Christ's bday really being in Dec, not August as is also posited.
Someone else told me Leo is earthly father issues
and Cap is Heavenly father issues

ANy feedback?

Hiareth

whoa . . . i just read 3rd hs. saturn . . . scary me!

;p,

amy

I'm 3rd house Saturn too! Thanks for the hugs by the way.

Hiareth

Here is Saturn

Lis

My saturn also in 3rd house, in Sag piscesdreamer) !!

I can relate to yr husband, and to you since everyone that has loved me echoes what you say about yr. hubby

to boot, i have sun sq saturn
does he?

Hiareth

[This message has been edited by hiareth (edited 03-07-2001).]

No, i'm Virgo. What house is your sun in? Mine's in 12.

Hiareth