Hii Everone!!

well,i was just thinking of asking all of u whether u do beleive in and resort to at times,the answers from the universe as linda writes in gooberz?what i mean is all those fortune telling devices like the iching,tarot cards,runes,oracles and such?and have they proved to be true to u?can we start off a thread regarding such matters and their validity?
let me know!
love
shagun.

Shagun,

In my opinion, such fotune-telling devices can be quite revealing. Most of my experience has been with Tarot, and I've been stunned at times by the accuracy. What I've often heard is that the cards, stones, etc., are never wrong. However, the INTERPRETATION can be. To my knowledge, the same is true of astrology. So just as a gifted astrologer can provide a more revealing interpretation of your chart, a gifted Tarot reader can do the same with the lay of your cards.

This could become a very interesting thread!

KJS

Hi Shagun, nice to greet you. I use the runes and the I Ching occasionally and your tale led me to choose a rune for you, now I just wanted to choose one Rune as my time of apprentiship on the keyboard is at the beginner stage, but my mind told me to do a three rune spread, this actually involves drawing four Runes.
First of all you pose a question, I asked "what is Shagun asking for".
Rune 1= The events,attitudes,expectations leading up to the present time.
Rune 2= The attitude adopted, or the attitude to adopt in the present situation.
Rune 3= The outcome if 2 is adopted.
Rune 4= The rune that governs this process.
The lessons learned, the reasons understood the attitude adopted is in it's way "covered by our MOTHERS grace"
THE READING:
Rune 1: Ehwaz-Movement Progress A Horse.

Change, movement, new homes, attitudes,new life,(5 influence),.....Improving.
Gradual development and steady progress, slow growth through numerous shifts and changes(5) This can apply to business or an idea, or to the constant transformations in relationships
Where personal moral effort and perservering steadfastness are called for to maintain growth and life.(?1 influence with the 5 making the 6).
"As I cultivate my own nature,all else follows.
This rune is saying, you have progressed far enough to feel a measure of safety, of surety in your position,
It is time to turn again and face the future reassured and prepared to share the "good" fortune that comes. The sharing is significant since it relates to the power of the sun to foster life and illuminate all things with it's light.
Shagun you could say that this is your foundation, maybe like the soul urge in Pythagorean numerology, what's yours?

Rune 2:Thurisaz-Interestingly, for me anyway, was that I lexigramed the name and came up with " HURT IS A RASH, A SHIRT". This Rune the Gateway, the place of not action, represents the present situation etc, it also reminds me of the 11/2.
This Rune was reversed and can indicate turbulent times.Note: In rough seas one is cautioned to stay calm, find your centre and do your work.

"A quickening of your development is indicated here. Yet even when the growth process accelerates, you will have reason to halt along the way, to reconsider the old, to intergrate the new. Take advantage of these halts.
If you are undergoing difficulties, remember: the quality of passage depends upon your attitude. Be certain that you are not suffering over your suffering."
Drawing Thurisaz" (hurt is a rash, a shirt) "reversed demands contemplation on your part. Hasty decisions at this time may cause regrets, for the possibility is that you will act from weakness, deceive yourself about your motives and create new problems more severe than those you are attempting to resolve. Impulses must be tempered by thought for correct procedure."( this still reminds me of the 2, but maybe the 20/2, I would suggest you check out the compound numbers 20 and 11 in "Star Signs" to see what you think. I also see the 2 controlling the impulsiveness of the 5, these then create the 7, emphasising again the Yin nature of this Rune, Intuition, dreams, evaluation are all relevant here, add the seven to the 20 or the 11 and you get 27 or 18, up rises the 9 influence , inner turmoil, indecisiveness, and so on.
"Do not attempt to go beyond where you haven't yet begun. Be still, collect yourself and wait on the Will of Heaven."

Rune 3:
Laguz- Flow, water, that which conducts.
Represents the outcome.
"Unseen powers are active here, and creative and fertile powers of Nature. The attributes of this Rune are water, fluidity, the ebb and flow of tides and emotions, of careers and relationships. Laguz fullfils our need to emerse ourselves in the experience of living without having to evaluate or understand.(sounds pretty cruisy to me). It speaks to the desire for comfort and the satisfaction of emotional needs, to the lunar (Yin) side of our nature. For while the sun strives for differentiation,(the first rune relates to the sun, and the third Rune the moon,) the Moon draws us toward unity and merging."
It sounds challenging,but look where it's leading.
" This Rune often signals a time for cleansing: for revaluing, reorganising, realigning. A Rune of deep knowing, Laguz may call you to study spiritual matters in readiness for self-transformation. Sucess now lies in you contacting your intuitive knowing, in attuning to your own rhythms. A Rune of the self relating rightly to the self, Laguz signifies what alchemists called the 'conjunctio', or sacred marriage. In fairy tales, it is the end where the hero and the heroin live happily ever after.

Rune 4: The Rune that governs the entire process.
Wunjo= Joy, Light.(just did a quick lexigrame, and got WON NOW, NO, NOW WON, NO, WON NOW. Looks like you can lexigrame other languages!)
This Rune was reversed and indicates the reasoning for this process.

"Things are slow in coming to fruition. The process of birth is long and arduous, and fears arise for the safety of the 'child' within. A crisis, a difficult passage-even if brief- is at hand. Consideration and deliberation are called for, because light and shadow are still intermixed and doubts and scrupples might interfere with the joyousness if not understood as timely to your growth. So stop your anxiety and ask yourself whether you possess the virtues of seriousness, sincerity and emptiness; to possess them is to have tranquility which is grounded in clarity, patience and perserverance.
Seen in it's true light, everything is a test. And so, focused in the present, sincere toward others and trusting in your process, know that you can not fail.
This Rune reversed is a usefull meditation."

So whatever is driving the situation needs to go into cruise contol. Be still and you may find the space to observe your process,your situation and yourself, with different eyes.
Being still can be just faith in your goodness, even if just a glimmer, faith to be vunerable, to grieve, to hurt, to find the joy in little things. What we focus are energies on, is what we get, pay attention and EXPRESS-EXPRESS-EXPRESS, the Lexigrame here is interesting, PRE-SEX. That's quite a good Lexigrame if you consider the feelings that go along with early courtship, a good feeling to adopt as a mentor.
Well Shajun that's it. I've just considered the thought that this reply might not be appropriate, and if I knew how to save this and send you a shorter message asking your permission first I would. However I don't know, and it's taken me along time, all enjoyable I might add, to get this message to you and I look at it this way. This is the first time I have done this for a person, meaning, it's acuracy is untried, it works well as a guide for me, personally, for anyone else? I do not know.Therefore would you let me know if there is any correlation to the Rune spread and your present situation, I would be most greatful.
P.S. Do you have a 6 influence, and do's the 30 suit your current life style, nosey aren't I, but after all it's Numbers, well maybe not, well maybe.
ha ha, another Lexigrame, well maybe not= YELL NOT, LEAN,LET NO ONE MAN BALL, LET NO ONE MAN TELL, BE YE, BE ME, BE ALL.....OM
And finally as he leaves the caps lock on again ( I changed it of course, must be the virgo ascendent) that in a remarkably short period of time, I have met some friends and I look forward to first seeing your names, and then your stuff, so what' your stuff, impatient or what, nah!! How could that be?
Bhaggy<><>&@<3><3>`
PPS. Hi KJS, youv'e arrived on air so to speak since I started this epic adventure on the keyboard, Gooday to yoou from Me and Tasmania.Coments everyone.

Hi KJS

you are so right when u say that the fortune telling devices(ftd)are right!i always thought maybe somethings wrong with me that i can see their meanings so well,but since u beleive it too i guess my beleif is valid!

i personally feel that the runes(did u know the word universe has the word runes in it?),the tarot and another device known as the karma cards are quite true and yes,the interpretation is what matters.it applies to everyone individually.

hey,have u tried out ftds on the internet kjs?then u must,must try out 'matrix space interactive'!!its got all sorts of ftds incl tarot,runes,fortune cookies etc.another one to try out is 'www.facade.com'.

And hey kjs how about some of us experianced ones(in these devices i mean)try to give some readings to our friends to see if this really works?do you think thats possible and could we do it?
love
shagun.

Hiii Bhaggy!!!
thank u so very very much for taking so much of trouble to do a ...fantastic...reading for me!!!

U want a feedback?i think u ought to make this professional!really bhaggy u were very very right with the interpretations!

Ysee i was going thru a very rough time earlier and at present iam in a very vaccilating stage.its a long story but to mak e it short,its time i started asking myself how much faith i have and if i truly beleive i shall get the joy i deserve at the end of thhis?so i guess that makes ur reading a 100% right!!!

Once again..thanks a lot!i just saved that reading up and im gonna meditate on it tonight!
lots a love
shagun.

My own long-winded idea about all forms of "fortune telling" or divination is just this: if everything is truly connected (which I believe it is), then it is only natural that a chart of the planetary positions at the time an individual is born is an accurate "refelction" of everything about that individual, or that a Tarot spread or an I-Ching hexagram cast at the moment a situation is in mind accurately reflects all the factors surrounding that situation. So in this sense it would be true that a Tarot spread, like an astrology chart, is never "wrong." The trick, as KJS says, is in interpreting these symbols correctly -- and that's part science, part art, part intuition. Sometimes the symbols are so clear that it's impossible to mistake their meaning; but other times they are more subtle and require greater knowledge and insight to interpret correctly. A good astrologer or reader works on many levels.

One of the big attractions of astrology is that it is built on more scientific, factual knowledge than many other divinatory arts -- the measurable and verifiable positions and movements of the planets -- and therefore it is easier for those of us who were reared in this left-brained scientific/materialist culture to get started learning to understand its interpretations. But in the end it takes more than just factual knowledge to be a good astrologr.

This thread has become so interesting! Everyone has contributed some wonderful insight, and I hope we can keep going with it. I LOVE the idea of going through the Tarot one card at a time, beginning with the major arcana. What I'd like to ask her is what deck you prefer because there are so many out there. I have only one deck, Motherpeace, but I've also had some experience with Daughters of the Moon (which I've really liked). Both take some liberties with traditional Tarot, which could be good, but I don't know. I'd really like to find a deck that has proved tried and true for others. Any recommendations?

I second the admonition not to predict or seek out predictions of doom. I took some Tarot lessons seven or eight years ago from a gifted reader. However, she decided to reveal to my mother and me which combination of cards indicates physical death and even told us how that combo had come up when she was reading for a terminally ill man. I wish she had never told us that!! From then on, every time I flipped cards, I was frightened of getting that combo. Tarot became all about fear for me. Sure enough, my mom and I then each got that combo several times! It made me worry who close to me was going to die soon. And that's no way to live! Shortly after these readings, a beloved family cat did die unexptectedly. After that experience, I gave up Tarot for quite awhile! In recent years, a good friend and I, both novices really, have done some readings together, and I'm always amazed at how revealing the cards are. It would be wonderful to share our knowledge of Tarot and other methods.

Bhaggy, how generous of you to do a Rune Stone reading for Shagun! There seem to be a lot of generous people contributing to this message board. But then, it would only make sense coming from Linda's fans!

Let's keep going!

KJS

Hi KJS- I agree and second that motion! I personally know very little about the tarot and would love to learn from someone I know I could trust!
Bhaggy- how wonderful of you to share your gift and enjoy reading your input here.

Peace to all,
Kstar

The contributions to this message board have given me so much food for thought. This afternoon, thanks to Shagun starting this thread, I began to wonder what causes believers in astrology to seek out other methods of "fortune telling," such as Tarot and I Ching. I wonder if you might share with us what Tarot offers that astrology does not (and vice versa, of course). I trust that for some they complement each other well. Maybe some more keen insight :-)

Best,
KJS

Hi everyone!

Wow, the threads in this discussion forum is certainly becoming interesting. And I must say I want to thank and everyone involved for creating this place so we can discuss these issues with open attitudes and free minds (and hearts!). I've been looking for a place to discuss many of these things for a very long time. I first started using the Internet when I was 18 (5 years ago) and not until now have I found a place discussing and bringing up subjects I feel I can relate so completely to on many levels. Thank you everyone

In addition to Astrology and Numerology I have also been into Tarot cards for most of my adult life. It's a long story, but through a set of incidents when I was a 14-year old boy I came to the conclusion that I should buy my own Tarot deck. And I felt very strongly that this was something I should use in my daily life and keep with me.

Now, as most of you know deciding on a deck is very, very important, because that deck almost becomes a part of you, and you'll have a strong bond to that particular set of symbolism for a long time. As you become more experienced I guess you can certainly use several different decks, but some will always be easier and more intuitive to use than others.

After much deliberation and endless peeking at different cards in a local bookstore, I decided on a set of controversial Tarot cards (though I had no idea of that at the time). This was Aleister Crowleys Toth Tarot (named after the Egyptian God of Wisdom). The cards are incredibly detailed, and absolutely full of spiritual signs, symbolism and intuitive value. But some feel they vibrate to a dark pattern of energy. I haven't felt this, but many I've met has treated my cards with disdain. One woman even called them evil!

Does anyone here have any experience with these (quite powerful) cards? Does anyone feel that because the man who made them were said to be "one of the most evil men in the world," that the cards themselves should be affected by this?

Also, I've found that Numerology and Tarot are indeed strongly linked (also Astrology and Tarot). In addition to all other Numerological influences in your life, you are also influenced by spesific tarot cards (Major Arcana cards), symbolizing different karmic and other forces at work in your current lifecycle. Mine is for example card 9, The Hermit.

So I guess that if you got your chart read, calculated your birth numbers and looked up your Tarot Destiny Cards, you'd have quite some information to guide you through life! It can be quite overwhelming at times. But that's why it's so comforting to know that the most important, and the decisive factor in ones life, is free will. The freedom to choose and make waves (Ripples in the Water). Zen-gardens anyone?

If anyone is interested I can post the method I found of calculating your Tarot Destiny Cards.

With Love,

Crabbie

[This message has been edited by Crabbie (edited 02-28-99).]

Crabbie,

I don't know that much about Aleister Crowley, but his deck didn't really harmonize with me. I can't say that it's evil though. Only you can tell if a deck is working well for you. If you can afford it, why not check out some other decks too? You might find something you like better.

KJS

PS Please do share your methods.

Hooray, Tarot! I am an avid learner, always thirsting for more knowledge about them and any other divinity tool. Or key. I like to think of them as keys and I do agree - they are all connected.
I realize, as I'm doing a Tarot reading for mys-elf and for other people (which I rarely do...I'm still very much learning), that whatever card I pull, we (the person and I or just mys-elf) can connect it with any situation in the person's life. Does anyone else think this way? I think that, especially with Tarot, any card can be interpreted into one's life, it's just that some cards have more direct "keys" than others. I don't really think I am explaining this as well as I would like, sorry. It's late here and I'm tired.
For mys-elf, in the stage that I am in, I look at the Tarot as keys to help unlock the door of better understanding my Higher Self.

I look forward to reading more from all of you about such things, as always.

And my heart just breaks for KJS and others who have had negative Tarot experiences due to others' interpretations. It just proves how negative suggestions go a long way.

Anyway, good night all. I'll see you in the dawn of the morning.

LMB

When I was working at Microsoft I had the entire Arthurian "Legend" deck arranged on my office wall so I could look up from my desk and ponder the symbols! That's an incredible deck.

LMB, I agree with you completely that every card has meaning in relation to every person's life situation. The tarot is the story of the journey of the soul, and that's a journey we all go through ... the same journey for all of us, yet different and unique for each soul, each life experience.

Hi Everyone!

wow!im amazed at the response from this thread!whopeee!i find so many like minded people here!!

yknow ive had a few incidents with my rider waite tarot deck.every time it used to give me a true answer so i really started beleiving in it.well one day i just got this terrible idea in my head that im gonna test them further.so i said,i want u to make my right hand feel numb if u are really there and all this is true.will u do it or not?well,the reading gave me a positive and then...SCREECH...i actually felt my hand go numb!!!i was so frightened since i was so young about 15 and so i sobbingly told them it was k and i beleeived them.the feeling left and since that day i have never challenged them!they do say that the spirits operate these cards!!!one of my friends had an uncanny experiance with them too!!and did u know they even work if u just write their names and numbers on peices of paper!!

shudder!
well i really liked the idea of picking up one card a day and lets do it!!!
love
shagun.

Hi Everyone!

With respect to the whole Crowley discussion, I don't want to come across as judgemental or anything and i do NOT in any way want to get involved with anyone's free will, but my experience with anyone i've ever spoken to or met with who has had ANYTHING to do or related to Crowley has always come out for the negative. That whole crew who is invoved with the Hermatic Order of the Golden Dawn (Crowley's group) have always given me the creeps. They claim to be using "lost" knowledge from Egypt right through to the middle ages and the enlightenment, primarily with an emphasis on the writings of Hermes Trigestimitus (sp). This is pure poppycock.

Mystical knowledge or true spiritual knowledge often has an emphasis on self-analysis, self-discovery, that edict from Delphi "Know Thyself" applies here. A very deep and profound emphasis on meditation and reflection. The Golden Dawn crew are ritualists, like the Freemasons, and no matter how you cut it, that's always bad news. What I completely disagree with ritualists is that they make you think that by doing AB and C at such and such time , at such and such place with such and such tools, you'll be able to get anything and everything you want from this world. Absolutely no mention of meditating whether or not AB and C are good for you to begin with and will further your development and your spiritual awareness.

There's a verse in Gooberz here which is very apt. relating to when Robert returns to Linda in the end, how you must master the inner mysteries first before mastering the outer mysteries, not the other way around. Know Thyself, master thyself with all your defects and shortcomings, your selfishness, your temper, your greed, your moods and irritations etc. (which speaking for myself, is a feat in itself) and then you'll be able to master the outer mysteries. Ritualists, I've noticed reverse that equation right around making you think that by controlling the outer mysteries like the weather (like Crowley) you'll be able to control yourself.

As for choosing the *right* deck, one method which i find very helpful is to look at the card representing The Lovers. Do you like the picture? Does it feel right for you? Does it properly sum up or represent love to you? It's helped me immensely in the past and with the number of tarot decks out there, it's a quick, easy and reliable method. Also one thing to keep in mind when purchasing a new deck, is to make sure that the pattern on the back of the cards (the pattern you see when the cards are down) doesn't *point* in one way, that is you won't be able to tell if they are reversed or not before you choose them after you have shuffled them. Marble patterns usually fail on this point.

I really agree with what Aurora says. It seems to me that the distinction comes down to this: There are power seekers, and there are truth seekers. I think truth (about self, others, cosmos) ultimately leads us to wise use of our innate powers. But seeking power for power's sake leads to only that, and can be quite disastrous. Rather, turn thy gaze inward (using Tarot, Rune Stones, astrology, meditation, etc.)

KJS

[This message has been edited by KJS (edited 03-01-99).]

Oh dear!

I must say I had no idea that the Crowley cards were this negative, or has these links to unwanted (for me at least) influences. I've thought some on this and I think you've actually made me aware of something I did not know. Or perhaps I wanted it like this, I've always been a bit self-destructive. But I certainly am going to heed your warnings now. After reading your posts I'm scared of the cards myself! I don't think I could do another reading with them now either.

Fortunately I have other cards I also use. Mostly the Rider Tarot, of course, but also a deck called the Tarot of the Old Path. The last is a very feminine deck, very Wicca-inspired. I like it because it really reminds me of much of Linda's teachings (that's why I bought it). But I really don't feel like using it often, perhaps to get in touch with my feminine side, but not daily. I also have the Tarot of the Cat People, but I bought those more because I love cats. The cards themselves are a bit dark. I guess it's off to the local bookstore to look for new cards then. Sigh.

But I was wondering one thing though, and this scares me a bit. I have been using the Toth tarot for over 8 years! Does anyone know of this could have soem serious negative side-effects? I hope not, but the more I think about it, the more I get this bad feeling inside. Well, at least I haven't been near the Golden Dawn Movement or anything associated with it. Star Signs gave me some sound advice at an early age. Like staying clear of Silva Mind Control (shudder) and others like it.

In any case I definitely will check out the Arthurian tarot, it sounds quite interesting. And I also said I'd promise to post how to calculate your Tarot Destiny card (does anyone else know the validity of this particular parctice, btw? Is it a common Tarot practice?)

It's very simple actually, you just add your birth numbers up and add them together. I can take myself as an example. I was born june 26 1975. I add the 6 for june to the 26 and then add it to 1975. The result is 2007, which reduces to 9 (The Hermit). If the number becomes 22, you're The Fool (Major Arcana Card 0). Well, I guess that's what I read. Thoughts anyone?

- Crabbie (creeping under a stone)

***kicking up heels in a spritely fashion***
I am so very excited about the "Star Cards". I'm sure we all await them anxiously! Thank you for telling us about them at this early stage.

I would also like to add my own little bit about something that's worked for me. I can't remember the name of the woman, but she put out "Soul Cards"...these BEAUTIFUL and TOUCHING cards. She did them by what she called "touch painting". The pictures are so full of meaning, but there is no book that tells you what it means. It is up to you to interpret. That is what I love about them. Some of the cards hold special personal meaning. I am now choosing one card for the week and I set it up on my desk so I can look at it and ponder over the meaning and what it will mean to me. I can get any of you the information on how to order them if you like. Or perhaps some of you already have them. Just let me know!

LMB

For you Tarot fans out there, here is a web site with many decks (and astrology books!) for sale:

http://www.astroamerica.com

You even get to view about eight cards out of each deck! There are so many wonderful choices, and I've had a very hard time narrowing it down. But for my return to Tarot, I'm going with the lovely New Palladini deck. The illustrations are beautiful, and the imagery is eclectic, which appeals to my indecisive nature. Anyway . . .

If any of you are beginning anew with Tarot, I'd love to hear which deck(s) you choose and why.

Kind regards,
KJS

[This message has been edited by KJS (edited 03-04-99).]

Hiii Everyone!!

seems like most of us arent really in a mood to discuss the ftds!!!well,take ur time!

But i do have one suggestion to make...

how about doing mini readings for some questions from our friends?Of course there are no guaranteed right answers but it will add loadsa fun to this thread Iam volunteering and i think 3 more volunteers should do it....what do u say friends?!!

ANY VOLUNTEERS?

please give me your names and tell me if this sounds like a good idea ok?

We could use any ftds,i think.what do u think friends?

lemme know soooon!
love
shagun

[This message has been edited by shagunj (edited 03-06-99).]

Hiii Everyone!!!

NO VOLUNTEERS?!!!!!!!

awwwww....this is saaad!well...dosent matter.How about me only?

shagun the gypsy shall read ur fortunes thru one tarot card per person....does that sound interesting?
letme know friends!
love
shagun
P.s:Bhaggy...i cant beleive u arent volunteering!!

Hi Shagun, I've been so busy I was going to make a grand entry on the agony aunt thread, I love to volunteer, numero duo you could say, so I'm in your hands, how and when would you like to start... I have two Loves in my life, how do I need to conduct myself in this situation? Maybe that could be an opening question?
Bye for now.Bhaggy<><>**<><>`

Hi everyone. I just want to share some of my experiences with the Crowley deck... I've been reading the tarot since i was 12. I've tried almost every deck you can think of. most of them i did'nt find accurate. The Crowley deck are the latest cards i own and I find them very accurate. I have done numerous readings for people with great results. ALL tarot cards perform the same purpose, I don't believe this deck is evil any negative or positive vibrations depend upon the user not the man who created them. About death predictions and the tarot... every time i do a reading for someone i always warn them that: 1. these readings are just a warning not a definate prediction . 2. We control our own destiny and these devises guide us in making decisions it doesn't predict anything we can't prevent from happening.
However i do believe you can curse someone with these devices . this is called "casing the mark" This method is commonly used in carnivals and by "psychics".

Laurentino or Veronica,

I think you are right to advise your clients that they ultimately control their destiny and that Tarot is just a tool to help them see the probabilities at the time. Readings that are proactive and give people a way of righting their course or wisely facing particular challenges are the only readings worthwhile. After all, what value would fortune-telling devices have if humans had no agency in the outcomes? I admire that you are not fatalistic when you do readings.

As for the appropriate deck, I know of a Tarot reader who lets her clients choose the deck to be used for their session. Have you tried this?

KJS

Hiiii Bhaggy!!

There you are!!and thank god!!
Why did u want to enter the agony aunts column?ok...lets discuss THAT there,whenever u want,right?

hmmm...double girlfriends?!now i know why u need that agony aunt thread!btw do u have any gemini aspects on ur chart..that could explain the dillemma!!

Righto...ill do a single card reading for u and give u the answer.I always thought a single card reading was more focussed.I already have a private request too...so whopeee..im going to get busy now!Not that im complaining!

So when do the numero duo start off?!ok..right..after ur answer?well...its going to be here tommorow...and hey..im not really a gypsy lady so take it with a pinch of salt.

see yaaaa bhaggy!fellow diviner!
love
shagun.

HIIII BHAGGY PARDNER!!!
yo!here iam with your reading!!heee!Seems to me like u have the cake and are eating it too...so be a lil careful,lest u turn into a hermit!(screeech!really...bhaggy...the cards say it!!)

A three card tarot spread answer to ur question is as follows:

PAST:
(1)The Two of Wands represents opportunity,especially in business. You laid the foundation for a new venture. You had already achieved some success, indicated by the wand fastened securely to the castle wall. Also note the lilies of purity balanced
by the red roses of desire. This shows the balance with which you were approaching your goal. The wand in one hand represents your undertaking and the globe in the other suggests the tremendous potential for success. The character in the image,looking out to sea, suggests trade and could indicate strong partnerships and alliances. You were in the early stages of a prosperous enterprise.

PRESENT:
(2)Enjoying the fulfillment of desire is indicated by the Nine of Cups. You may be in a place in your life where you are comfortable and happy, and are able to enjoy
the many rewards of your past actions. Contentment and luxury are suggested by the imagery of the man,sitting comfortably, enjoying the nine cups arranged
on the banquet table. Life is your banquet, and you've earned the right to enjoy it. In old tradition, the Nine of Cups is the "Wish Card" and was always thought to mean the fulfillment of one's innermost desires.

FUTURE:
(3)The Hermit is the Tenth card in the Major Arcana,and is given the number nine to indicate the pinnacle of enlightenment. He stands atop a cold, snowy mountain peak, at the end of a journey he has made alone. He holds a lantern and gazes down the way he
has traveled, leading any other seekers to what he has attained. The lantern is rich in symbolism; it denotes both his enlightenment and his willingness to aid others to it. It contains a six-pointed star, whicch is comprised of two triangles pointing in opposite directions: one up, one down. This shape reveals more of the Hermit's message: the journey has been inner as well as outer, and his seeking has been within as well as without. He leans on his staff, which is a symbol of his power, making practical use of what he has come to know and master. His
grey cloak indicates that he has synthesized the light and dark aspects of himself for his own benefit.

The Hermit in your future indicates that you will seek guidance. This may be your own "Higher Self" speaking to you, or it may be advice given to you by a trusted friend, or a seasoned professional. It is wise to listen to the wisdom that will be offered, and to your own gut feelings, in the situation. Those who speak from experience will be able to give you some much-needed perspective, as they have been down the path you will be following. The Hermit can also indicate a need to withdraw from the outer world to focus on your innermost self.

Sooooo pardner...did i answer ur question or not?!!!lemme know soooon!and when are we teaming up?
love
shagun.

Hi Victoria!!

Actually,i mailed u your answer but it was an in an attachment format,so ur mailbox did not accept it.well never mind,im giving ur answer here.

THE DEVIL
You viewpoint is dominated by the faults in your friends and associates -pride,arrogance, jealousy, greed, emptiness. While these flaws may exist in others, your current perception of them may be a projection. Do you feel you are living superficially? If so, do something practical. The Devil manipulates us through logic. Don't fight the devil on his own ground. The cycle of negative thinking is best combatted with creative work. Put your
fingers in the clay, the paint, the dish water. Make yourself too busy to be critical.

Take action to correct your errors. By making amends you consciously decide to strive to be a better person while acknowledging your less than perfect human nature.

Hey Victoria!!!dont PANIC!!!the devil in this question simply means...that u could be wrong in ur assumption about ur grandmom.its just supposed to be a 'NO'answer.But i do beleive that this can happen but probably it hasnt happened in ur case.Hey Victoria...just take this reading with a pinch of salt because im not adept at all this.its just something i try at home.

hope i was of some help
love
shagun.

HOWDY DOODY DOO DUDE!$* It's great to connect the net with you tonight Shagun, thanks for suggessting the idea
NUMERO DUO--CARPE DIUM--NUMERO DUO--CARPE DIU
29/11 17/8 19/10 15/6 etc,etc.
11 + 8 10 + 6
19 16
8
just came into my head, I thought I might try it as a chant vibration, then I thought what's the numbers ( as I usually do ) now i'm thinking about the connection with my original 4&8 question and by day 15 character.
Well I do not own or have used Tarot, so I got on the phone immediately to a learned lady, who, I assummed would still be up at this late hour, she was,we had quite a rave over a three hour period, which included the obligatory hour off phone time, which started of with the flick of the electic kettle, and ended up with a combination feel of Tai Chi and Jiu Jitsu that rapidly dawned on me while reaching for a cup. It then slowly but surely developed to be,.. Alright! And then the phone rang.
This is what has resulted in the last 4 hours since reading your reply, Keep it coming, cool dude....and/or
With love and appreciation I acknowledge your work,
self-doubt, can throw a shadow which often disguises the real knowing, this is an unselfish act and I do this because it is the right thing to do, no other reason,simple as that. This shadow can manifest as doubting sincerity.
The two of wands is a welcome ally.

The nine of cups is "cool" I can handle that?

The Hermit, the being on your own sort of dude, was one of my worst scenario options.
( I just had this other thought while making for the kettle, although this should really go in the web site suggestion thread, but why not have just the one thread, easy to follow completely flexible, and then have links* to the topics discussed, which of cause can take on mini-study/pleasure groups, but one that has left the main thread,the main thread which other surfers ride.
*may involve a split screen format.
Oh well back to the kettle).
I have often considered finding myself alone, this is not a problem, unless acccompanying the aloneness is the realisation of making "the" wrong decision.This seems to be a "biggy for me".So this Hermit card indicated to me that if I live as noblely and true as possible that my centre will remain my centre in all situations, this was also envidenced in the martial art ah ha moment, coming at a time when I have an opportunity to train/train with one or two student/teachers directly in the arts.
I had made "THE" decision for me, before this reading, this reading has been powerful,now lies the weaving, forming, exchanging,shaping,thanks Shagun.
MAKE DECISION-MANAGE-HARMONY-PERSEVERENCE
AND PLENTY OF STAMINA AHHA AHHA.
gOODNIGHT FFOM capslock......<>^<>
/ \/ \
------
Alias "the Bag man"Bhaggy,.

Hi all!

it's great how everyone's helping each other out. the threads are very interesting and i'm learning so much just from reading them. as for baggy and shagunj (sorry if i spelled your names wrong), i think it's a great idea to have volunteer fortune-telling, if i were adept in the art of divinity, i would defininitely be volunteering. how did you guys just start the tarot. i was thinking of just buying a deck and follow the directions, but i'm a little sceptical with that. i feel like i don't really trust myself with them. did you guys read some books, and go from there? i would like to start astrology, numerology, or tarot some time, but it all seems sooo hard. in the meantime, can i put in a request for a mini-reading from either baggy or shagunj. do i just personally e-mail either of you, my question, or how does it work? let me know. i would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks!

Love,
skylar

Hiii Skylah!!!

Lovely to have u on this site!!!!

You could mail me personally if u want and ill try mu best to answer ur question.But oh my!yknow i myself am a amateur!i just interpret the cards the way i feel intuitively so i think its VERY easy to read tarot that way,none other.And i really hope my answers are true!!!!Yes and u could get a book on tarot.It comes really useful.best of luck!!

Hiii bhaggy!!!!where are u numero duo?!!!!
love
shagun.

Hi everyone! This is a very interesting topic and I wanted to add my two cents (and some odd change) to the mix.

In regards to the I-Ching: I've consulted it regularly for more than 20 years. For the first 10 or so years I thought of it as a fortune telling 'device' and asked it to tell me what my future held.

At some point, it dawned on me, one of those ah-ha! experiences, that what was really happening was that I was having a conversation with a trusted friend/advisor. I don't think that a true friend would tell you, "you SHOULD do this or that." They would instead say, "well, it looks to me like you have a couple of options here. If you do "X" then "This" could happen, and on the other hand, if you do "Y," then "That" could happen. Then it's up to me to do the right thing.

Essentially, I have learned from these conversations with the I-Ching, how to be more objective about my life and the choices that I make. I also learned that life is a never ending cycle of changes and there are appropriate actions (or non-actions, as the case may be) to be taken at appropriate times.

I also believe that the more "real" information that one has at one's disposal, the easier it is to know what these actions are and when to apply them. So, the big picture, for me is whatever feels right intuitively and this includes the I-Ching, along with a well interpreted astrological chart, and an awareness of all the other aspects, such as numbers, colors, etc.

For some reason, and I'm sure it's just been my own personal experience, the Tarot never resonated well with me. Anyone who has ever interpreted the cards for me, has come across in a way that puts me off. I guess I like to know my options, as opposed to being told what will "happen" to me. Again, this is just personal experience, not a put-down of the Tarot.

Hi, Garyb! Nice to have your valuable input here. I appreciate your wise insight about how to view the I-Ching. I too had my own difficulty with Tarot readers, but I'm trying to give Tarot in general another shot now. However, I'm also very interested in I-Ching. As a student of Tai Chi, it only makes sense! I'm hoping you will share some of your favorite books about I-Ching. Also, what do you use (I've read there are many options)? How often do you do a reading? How do you pose questions?

Any answers would be most valued!

KJS

Thanks for this perspective, Gary. I think the "counsel of a wise friend" attitude toward divination of all kinds is a very productive way of looking at it, because, as you say, it puts the emphasis on your own choices and free will rather than presenting you with a supposed picture of unavoidable fate. An analogy I like to use is that the I Ching, like Astrology and the Tarot, is like a "psychic weather report." If you know there's a storm brewing in one direction but clear and sunny skies in another, it helps you make an informed decision without taking away your free will.

Incidentally, I have had excellent results with the Tarot over the years, but I think that may be because I use it in relation to the alchemical, astrological and numerological symbolism it embodies ... again, more for insight and reflection than for "fortune-telling."

KJS, fellow T'ai Chi player, there are probably as many good books about the I Ching as there are about astrology, to say nothing of dozens of translations of the oracle itself. I've used many, but I always come back to the old standby Wilhelm/Baynes translation, which really embodies that mystical-but-commonsense Taoist perspective that is the foundation of T'ai Chi. I almost always phrase my questions in terms of "please give me insight into the challenges and opportunities of this situation ..." and it speaks to me VERY directly.

Thanks, Greg! Loved your "psychic weather report" analogy. I'll have to get a copy of the Wilhelm/Baynes translation. With all of the wisdom you've been adding to this site, I'll say what's good enough for you is good enough for me

KJS

HiShagun my numero duo buddy, i'm still here just not so vocal, heaps of work and other enjoyable activities have been keeping the silver fingers of the keybooard.
I'ts great spending a few hours just running through the threads, almost like a family reunion after being "absent" for a few days.
Gooday Skylah6,Can't help you much with the Tarot as I've yet to discover that world myself, but the Runes,Numbers and the I ching on many occassions have led me into the realms of confusion and indecision, which for me was fundamental in learning the accuracy of the tools which I was using. Don't be afraid to experiment, or to trust what you are interpreting, life will give you the correct analysis, all you have to do is fine tune.
I believe it states that the I Ching (and other devices) are used by the "wise" to "avoid the tyranny of events", a statement I must admit I've always enjoyed.As for books on the tarot, on another thread somewhere there were different packs to check out maybe you could also suggest some good reading material.
Greg, dear friend, this could be my first direct correspondance to you,my memory fails me sometime. I like the way you write and express yourself, so add a little more of that majic and please give me directions to the gift shop, I appear to have lost my way.
As always everyone, it's great to be here, but now i'm gone. Bhaggy.
Ps. How do you get those little yellow smiley faces.

Hiii Bhaggy!!

oh its glad to see ur witty,bright self back on the site!!
But i dont think we are having much work here these days...so my numero duo buddy,i guess we can relax!!!
love
shagun.

Gregory,
Since you seem to be very familiar with Taoism and Taoist principles, I was wondering if there are good books you can recommend on , not only the I Ching , but on Taoism itself. I've read Benjamin Hoff's "Tao of Pooh" and "Te of Piglet" , wonderful primers in themselves, I find the practicality of Taoism quite appealing actually.

Thanks,
Aurora

just thought I would bring this thread to the fore again, as there is some very interesting discussion here on divining.

You sure started a lot of fascinating threads Shagun,...

Love

Michael