I have been reading this site to a blind relative for some time now , and she LOVES it. I do too, but I was not tempted to enter the forum until I read this particular thread.

Poor Maya. Don't allow ppl to make you feel guilty . I HAD to address this question, but kept putting it off waiting for someone else to say it, but no one has come even close , so b/c of Maya's agony over this, I MUST say it.
Maya , et al, Jesus ( an acknowledged avatar, even it you do not believe HE was the Son of God ) said " DO NOT BE CONCERNED WITH WHAT GOES INTO YOUR MOUYH; WORRY ABOUT WHAT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH ! " ) [paraphrased , and punction supplied by me .. hehe ]
Now, for anyone who would say , Oh, HE was speaking of words that come out of your mouth ... I agree.. HE was speaking of your thoughts/words. However , one hears with one's ears , not one's mouth ; therefore HE was clearly addressing foods one chooses to eat.

On a less esoteric note , more mundane . and here I will frankly admit I am guessing , remember Jesus and kin / family/ clan, was a shepherd . He /they lived in a desert plain. NOTHING is wasted by prudent ppl in a desert! We Bible -readers KNOW that they used the goatskins and lambskins for portage of water / wine , etc. WHY would any prudent , desert-dwelling, individual / family/clan raise animals , kill them to use their skins for warmth and transport of necessary liquids foods, and then throw away the edible meats..? The answer is, they didn't . They used those animals for sustenance just as well as they used them for warmth, clothing , shelter and transportation of foodstuffs. They also sacrificed animals . You can say this is barbaric , but Jesus WAS a sheperd.... That cannot be denied.. and HIS words on the subject ( SEE ABOVE ) cannot be discounted.

I do not condone eating meat : I do not condone NOT eating meat. I am simply telling you what GOD's emissary to this earth , and our earthly ways has said about the subject. Thank you.

GOD Bless ALL of us .. whether we choose to murder animals or plants.. for our sustenance / abodes ( tree-murdering ) , etc. . hehe ( Read The Secret Life of Plants By Peter Tompkins / Christopher Bird )
We are doing a great job of helping each other; don't confuse the issue of our spiritual lives with wh eats what. GOD is watching ALL of us.. and only S/HE knows for sure whether there even IS a right or wrong to this question.

Wildflowers

Welcome to the site Wildflower and hello to your friend you read to - very lOvely of you to do so

LOve and LIght, moonglow

You may want to go to http://www.jesusveg.com/.

Our intestines were not designed to digest meat. They were designed to digest vegetables, grains, nuts, beans and fruit. Digesting food is one of the hardest things your body does.

GENESIS, 1:29 ~ (as God spoke to Adam & Eve)
"And behold, I have given you every herb-
bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree-yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."

Something more to think about....

Not only do humans continue to drink milk after they are weaned -- but it is the milk from another animal!!!!

Jesus perfornmed at least 3 miracles that had to do with food. HIS very FIRST MIRACLE was turning the water
into wine at a wedding party.

Jesus,when teaching at the Sermon on The Mount, found that the ppl who had come loong ways to hear/ see him had no food. Someone had a few loaves ( of bread ) and a few fishes. HE took them and BLESSED them , and increased them to such an extent that all could eat , and there were left-overs ! JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE FED PPL ANYTHING HE WOULD NOT HAVE EATEN HIMSELF !

Food miracle # 3... This is the one even ppl who do not read the Bible know about. Jesus and his disciples were out in a FISHING BOAT . The waters became so rough they expected to drown, and awakened Jesus to save them HE stilled the waters , telling the disciples that what HE did they could and would do these kinds of miracles also. HE walked on the water as he did this. After Jesus walked on the water and stilled the storm / waters , he told them to pull up their nets. The nets were SO full they were afraid they would break. Why do you suppose HE went to great lengths to help them catch fish , Jovette..? There were too many for them to use just for planting. .. ( as is done by the Native Americans / Indians ) This is twice that we know of that HE performed a miracle directly related to feeding ppl. The words of the Bible are translated from the Hebrew , then the Greek , then the Roman , etc. ( I may have that order wrong. I am NO Biblical scholar , nor am I proficient in Hebrew , Greek or modern or ancient Italian ... hehe ) I have been told by ppl who have actually studied the Bible that the word " meat " that you mention in your email means simply food/ something to eat.

Further , one of the ways Jesus taught us was by using parables.
The Prodigal Son was one such. It was about repsonsiblity , God's love , forgiveness,etc, but food played a major role in this parable / teaching story. The Prodigal son left his wealthy family , taking his inheritance with him. He lost every penny and ended up living in a pigpen ,eating the pigs' food. He went home to his father , was forgiven ( OUR FATHER LOVES AND FORGIVES US .. was of course one of the morals of the story ) and his father threw a big bash for him ... killing the fatted CALF . Jesus did not say the father killed the fatted pineapple, fig or celery ( which , btw ALSO is not fully digestible in the human intestines: that is why one is told to eat veggies as necessary roughage ) Jesus would not tell ppl a parable / teaching story about a father honoring /celebrating his son's return to his senses/responsiblties by feeding his son an abomination to explain OUR Father's love / forgiveness of us.

ACTS 10 , 9-16
... "Peter( Jesus' disciple , after Jesus was no longer earth-bound ) went up on the roof of the house to pray . He became hungry and wanted to eat; while the food was being prepared he had a vision . He saw Heaven opened and something coming down that looked like a large sheet being lowered by its four corners to the earth. In it were all kinds of land animals ,reptiles and wild birds. A voice said to him" Get up Peter ; kill and eat ! "But Peter said, " Certainly not , Lord! I have never eaten anything considered defiled or unclean ." The voice spoke to him again : " Do not consider anything unclean that God has declared clean." This happened three times ; and then the thing was taken back up into heaven. "
This says to ME that God tells us what to eat . He was told to KILL and EAT flesh / real meat ; reptiles , land animals , birds .. No mention of his digestive system. Notice..?

Now, back to the loaves and fishes miracle performed by Jesus . Did you note that HE BLESSED the food , and then had it passed out to the masses ( Btw: I dont believe Jesus would feed ppl / or entice , induce , or watch ppl eat , something HE himself would not eat ... but that is MY opinion .. hehe)

Alchemy is ( simplistically ) transmuting / changing base into prec
ious . When Jesus BLESSED the food ... and when we BLESS our food, we are changing gross physical food for a gross phsycial body , into spiritual food to feed the spirits that we really are, that God made us to be. In other words , we transmute / transform our food BY BLESSING IT , into SOUL FOOD .. hehe.. food to feed the soul , as well as the body.

Linda Goodman and Edgar Cayce were the two modern advanced souls I used to introduce my childen to metaphysics when they were very young. We still read both , and are always enlightened further by what is said. My words are sent to help ppl who feel that by eating meat they are damaging their souls, not to harm anyone. How one chooses to eat , and what one chooses to eat , are none of my business. I do as I choose.. God Bless ALL of you as you do likewise.

Bloom where you are planted ....
Wildflowers . .

This is a place of friendship and love
There are many interpretations of the bible. You are free to intrepret however you wish. Some people even believe the bible is written in symbols.
Peace

Jovette

Food is vibrations. When we consume food we are consuming vibrations.

By judging the food we eat we are lowering its vibration. By blessing the food we eat, whatever it is, we are increasing its vibration.

Edgar Cayce once said that if he couldn't transmute that porkchop he was eating, then he mustn't be vibrating very fast.

Our emotional attitude about the food we eat plays just as important a role in the "healthiness" of our food as does the emotional attitude of the people who handled that food, the amount of pesticides and toxins to be found in that food, and whether or not that food is vegetable, mineral, animal, or processed junk. When we are eating and digesting we are transmuting vibrations. If our vibrations are that of unconditional love, then no vibration can diminish that, and everything we consume we transmute into more unconditional love.

As for myself personally, I am quite passionate about free-range bison meat. To me, it is truly the most succulent delicious meat to be found. I eat bison three or four times a month, usually on a Sunday when I have the time to make a sacred ceremony out of cooking and then eating it. I slowly savor every bite. Closing my eyes I am transported to the Great Plains and a time when man and nature lived in respect of one another, when the souls of bison, and elk, and wolf, and whooping crane, and coyote, and eagle, and all animals were inextricably tied to the souls of man, and each added to the vibrations of the other.

Oh, and by the way, bison meat just happens to go real well with green chile!

Eating it up,
White Feather

CHEESEBURGER IN PARADISE.... lol

And I don't feel guilty for it. You have to kill fruit and vegies to eat them too. I'm not going to stop doing something because I read it somewhere. I have to feel it for myself. I don't want to be immortal and I don't want to give up meat. I have Leo in me too and it could be that coming out but I don't think so. My sisters do too and they won't eat it. My baby sister spits red meat out of her mouth and she is a Leo. She's never eaten it. That doesn't mean I can't.

Joshua

I am SO sorry I forgot to say hello to the one person who welcomed me to LindaLand. I have an excuse.. hehe.. I certainly meant to say thank you , but I wrote up a loooong piece that day , and lost it ! I was so disgusted at having to re-write that I forgot to say" hello; thank you for the welcome; my family and I enjoy reading your postings." Did I prove I have a FEW manners left..? hehe

White Feather ,

Hi What a quote from Edgar Cayce ! What a chuckle! I think YOU are a very gifted writer . Enjoy reading your postings too. I foresee big things in your future.

Jovette,

I don't know how to do the fancy figures yet.. Barely have time to learn, but if I could do it, I would certainly reciprocate. I do not know if I said it b4, but the fact of the matter is , we are all learning and growing.. and it creates........ummmm.....dialogue. ROFL

Bloom where you are planted,
Wildflowers

You are most certainly my son. I'm proud of you sweetie for standing up for what you believe in. Always follow your heart and do what feels right to you and you will always be on the right path.

Love,
Mom

The Bible does say moderation in ALL things. You are absolutely right .

Bloom Where You Are Planted,
Wildflowers

I admire the principles that all you vegans hold dear, it is noble beyond words.

Unfortunatly,I, and my mighty sharp incisors, will most likely continue to eat meat. I can totally understand being a vegetarian from a spiritual point of view, but I disagree that our bodies were not ever meant to digest meat.

But I wish you all well on your journeys, thanks for your views! And Wildflower, I loved your Bible references! Wow!

peace y'all
maya

When Native Americans would hunt and kill, it was for a purpose and it did not upset the balance of nature...it was part of it. Now we have upset the balance, and we are paying for it every time we pull up to McDonalds...

Peace,
~artifax~

Artifax,

! !

So strongy do I agree about the mistreatment of animals, that I could have written every word you wrote , except that it would have made my already too -long postings horribly long.. hehe . There IS a word of caution here , however; God/ The Diety , etc. superceeds karma. S/HE KNOWS also who is abusing animals , to what extent , and with what purpose in mind. S?HE knows whether it is greed or need that compels one to put which food on his/ her table. I KNOW about Native Americans first hand. I know about free-range, and I know it is far more costly ( at least in MY neighborhood ... hehe) than other choices and with no assurances that what you are paying for is not sold to you as fee-range at some ridiculous price by some unscrupulous person, when you are actually eating the same foods everyone else is eating ( and sharing that karma ) In other words , moderation , AND intention count. Greed , by ranchers.processors ( or whatever middle-men ) will bring bad karma. Gluttony , of meat , veggie or fruit will certainly bring about all kinds of bad karma .

How about the karma attached to wearing clothes that are made in a sweat shop..? ( slave labor ) How about using medicines created and tested by methods horrendously painful and harmful to animals , and some humans ( prisoners... the black ppl who had the syphillis experiment done on them ... the military who are having the anthrax vaccine forced upon them )

Cezar Chavez , one of my all-time heros, would cry to hear you concerned about animals when he gave his life to improve the living conditions of the migrant workers / PEOPLE who pick your veggies / fruits , etc and who are STILL treated, in many cases , worse than some of those cattle . They get NO medical care ,though they work in those pesticides ,in the sun all day long; they get NO decent housing , NO schooling for their children, NO toilet facilities ( of course, in the fields , where else.? ) NO decent wages, and God knows ,NO RESPECT ! These are the invisible ppl who help vegetarians stay healthy and spiritual , at the expense of their own health and self-respect. Karma .. for vegetarians ..?

How much karma do you think just living your life entails.? Karma , or whatever you care to call it , is unavoidable., but again I say , God superceeds any karma you can conceive of .

I hope I am not making enemies here. I am just telling the truth. I live in the salad bowl of America.

While you are remembering the animals and keeping your karma clean by not eating them , please also remember the migrant workers who are ill /dying from the pesticides , and EVIL conditions they live under while getting those veggies/fruits from the fields to you.

Remmember , especially the little migrant children. The labor laws aren't enforced enough to keep little ones from picking your lettuce, strawberries , cantaloupe , tomatoes when they should be getting an education. Babysitters..? On their wages..?

That is just the domestic situation. How about the banana republics that pay 50 cents A DAY FOR ALL DAY OF PICKING BANANAS..? Karma . Karma. Karma.

Bloom Where You Are Planted ,
Wildflowers

Here are just a few reasons why we should all make a concerted effort to develop our psychic abilities:

1. When we pick up that apple in the grocery store, being psychic, we would be able to sense all the vibrations associated with that apple, including those vibrations attributed to the workers who picked and packed the apple, the workers who pruned the trees, the warehouse employees who moved the crates of apples, the grocery store employee who so diligently stacked the apples, and the various grocery customers who have handled the apples. Since toxins carry their own vibration, we would be able to sense these, too. Being psychic, we would be able to tune in to the vibration of the apple and tell if that vibration was compatible with us or not.
2. At the clothing store we could hold that sweater in our hands and tell if any sweatshop labor was involved in its making.
3. If we can truly "read" the vibrations of the foods we eat, we wouldn't be able to stand to eat meat that was raised in unhealthy vibrations. And the very same goes for the veggies, or anything else.
4. If we were truly psychic, we would be able to "feel" our vibrations dimish after eating something unhealthy. Likewise, we would be able to "feel" our vibrations go up after eating something nourishing.

Of course we could be psychic all day and it wouldn't matter much unless we take action in responce to the information we are receiving. If the apple doesn't "feel" right, don't buy it. If the steak is juicy, but you keep getting visions of the slaughterhouse, then don't eat it. If people compliment you on that new blouse, but you keep thinking about a 12 year old Guatemalan girl living in dire poverty while working 7 days a week, then take the blouse back to the store.

So is it the farming corporation's responsibility to treat the migrant workers right, or is it our responsiblity to sense any mistreatment in the products and acting in accordance with that information? Should it be a shared responsibility? If it should, then we should focus on our own end of the responsibility. This is the only way we can influence the other end--the farming corporation. The only way.

And as far as karma is concerned...well, karma has EXACTLY as much power as YOU give it, and not an ounce more.

The only solution to the veggie/meat-eating debate, the only solution to cruel conditions for workers, the only solution to pollution, the only solution to crime, the only solution to corruption, the only solution to terrorism, and the only solution to bad karma, is to raise our vibrations.

Vibrations attract like vibrations. That is a spiritual, mental, and physical law. What are YOU attracting? Don't like it? Well, go inside and turn up the vibrations.

The vibration of unconditional love renders karma powerless. The denser vibrations are all powerless in the wake of unconditional love. It only takes the vibrations of a handful of individuals to raise the vibration of whole peoples.

And that is why I am so darned optimistic about the future.

In light and laughter,
White Feather

I believe in what you have said about God superceding karma and how intent plays a crucial role in how much karma we actually acrue. What we must look at though is not so much intent as awareness. Once I learn that Nike, or whoever, is making shoes in Indonesian sweat shops where 15 year old girls make 6 cents a day, well that is when I stop purchasing Nike products.

Similarly, once I have learned what actually goes into the production of the meat in this country (USA), I no longer agree to abide by the "norm" of meat consumption. When I realize what it does to the world at large (as touched on in my previous post) how can I not feel that some sort of shame or negative vibrations are carried along with the meat. I agree with what White Feather has said about the notion that the karma which is acrued is all what you make of it...if you think it is really bad, then it is, much the same way a Muslim would feel tremendous shame if they accidentally ate a piece of pork. In their head it is probably more severe than it really need be. However, if I am aware of what goes into meat production, clothing production, FDA approval, etc., and I realize that it is bad for a nation, a race, or humanity/the world as a whole, and I continue to partake of it...then I know full well the karmic consequences which come along with this.

If I, even as a far removed party, knowingly contribute to wrongness and e-veil in the world, well how can I not be partly to blame. You, and many others, may not think about this when you come home and cook up some chicken or wear Nike, but with awareness comes responsibility. We cannot turn a blind eye and say, "well, I am not directly involved and GOD knows that I would not intentionally cause any of the wrongdoing which occurs...so I am absolved". It doesn't work this way...we are keeping the system going by ignoring it and pretending that it has no bearing on us (or that we have no bearing on it). This goes for all of the wrongs which you have brought up as well...I don't want you to think that I am biased towards animals...but they are an under-represented group (as they cannot speak up for themselves ).

All in all, I simply feel that if we aid in a system which gives rise to suffering and e-veil, we receive karma for it...whether we like it or even believe it. TRUTH IS NOT DEPENDENT ON BELIEF.

Now I think it is my turn to say that I hope I am not making any enemies...I hold no animosity towards you (or anyone here)...I simply wish for the clouds which obscure the light to be blown aside.

Peace
~artifax~

White Feather and Artifax,

LOVE you guys! ( In case either of you is female , " you guys" is a generic term I use.. hehe ) NOW , we are having a REAL dialogue . Everything is very well and intelligently put. ( This is irrelevant , Artifax, but I have NEVER bought /owned a pair of Nikes , and never intend to . and I have never said whether or not I eat meat, and do not intend to...)

As White Feather said , we shall all do what we can do to right wrongs... HEAR ! HEAR ! ... [ applause ] ANY wrongs ! but we don't castigate ppl who DON"T eat meat , and we don't castigate ppl who DO eat meat; we keep the faith , and we RAISE and KEEP the VIBRATIONS HIGH .

Well said , as usual , both of you . You both send a warm and comforting feeling through me that the world IS listening , and responding , and perhaps all will be not only well, but VERY well !

God Bless Us
Bloom Where You Are Planted ,
Wildflowers

Yours, Tanya